python-markdown-discuss

Re: [Python-markdown-discuss] the wiki

[Yuri T. <qar...@gm...>]

I am curious if anyone else has opinions on that?

First, on Bazaar vs. SVN.  I don't personally don't have much invested
in SVN and don't care that much.  What I worry about is: will moving
to Bazaar raise the bar for other people who want to check out?  In
theory, it seems, Bazaar is specifically designed to make it easier
for new people to join in.  On the other hand, I am wondering if
people might be turned off by having to install a new VCS.

Second, any comments on Roundup and Launchpad?  Lauchpad seems to have
a nice community thing going, so if we want to switch to Bazaar this
might be a nice option.

  - yuri

On 10/30/07, Waylan Limberg <wa...@gm...> wrote:
>
> I haven't looked at everything out there (the list is long), but I
> have looked at a few options that seem like they should work.
>
> I see 3 basic categories:
>     1. host your own,
>     2. simple - hosted elsewhere, and
>     3. full-featured - hosted elsewhere.
>
> Here's my pick in each category:
>
> 1. If you want to host our own solution and have total control,
> Roundup [1] seems like a good option. It's actually what Python uses
> [2] for a tracker, so there should be plenty of easy to get support
> for years to come. The package comes with a demo app that runs as
> localhost if you want to play around ( I did breifly). Of course,
> going this route will require more work to get things configured
> up-front, but once thats done, it should be easy going. If we go this
> route, you'de have to set things up on your server. The docs do
> provide instructions [8] for various hosting environments.
>
> 2. For a simple hosted solution, I would recommend Goode Code [3].
> I've used it to report bugs and it was painless. I just set up a
> project of my own [4] with it and am impressed with the simplicity of
> it all. I'll take this anyday over SourceForge. This is probably the
> easiest point of entry. I'll even volunteer to set it up if you want
> to go this way. I've transfered svn repos from one server to another
> preserving history before, so I'd be willing to give that a shot as
> well.
>
> 3. For a more direct replacement of SourceForge with a large
> community, lots of projects, etc, Launchpad [5] would fill that bill
> nicely. They have a nice tour [6] that summarizes their features. We
> would have to switch fron svn to bzr [7] though. Thats not a problem
> for me (I'd prefer it), but my guess is less users already have bzr
> installed. On a side note, this site was snappy earlier today, but
> while retrieving the links just now, it was **realy** slow.
>
> [1]: http://roundup.sourceforge.net/
> [2]: http://bugs.python.org/
> [3]: http://code.google.com/hosting/
> [4]: http://code.google.com/p/wlpages/
> [5]: https://launchpad.net/
> [6]: https://launchpad.net/+tour
> [7]: http://bazaar-vcs.org/
> [8]: http://roundup.sourceforge.net/doc-1.0/installation.html#installation
> --
> ----
> Waylan Limberg
> wa...@gm...
>


-- 
Yuri Takhteyev
http://www.freewisdom.org/

Re: [Python-markdown-discuss] the wiki

[Ben W. <da...@gm...>]

On 10/30/07, Yuri Takhteyev <qar...@gm...> wrote:
> I am curious if anyone else has opinions on that?
>
> First, on Bazaar vs. SVN.  I don't personally don't have much invested
> in SVN and don't care that much.  What I worry about is: will moving
> to Bazaar raise the bar for other people who want to check out?  In
> theory, it seems, Bazaar is specifically designed to make it easier
> for new people to join in.  On the other hand, I am wondering if
> people might be turned off by having to install a new VCS.
>
> Second, any comments on Roundup and Launchpad?  Lauchpad seems to have
> a nice community thing going, so if we want to switch to Bazaar this
> might be a nice option.

For my two cents, I have played both with Bazaar and SVN. I like both.
If you are going to have multiple trusted developers, BZR is a great
option because it offers distribution of the repository. SVN is good
if you want to retain maximum control of the source code, IMO. BZR
works best with ASCII/ISO text; SVN handles binary a bit better. SVN
also has the advantage of being around for a while longer, but at the
expense of having the RCS/CVS mentality about repository management.

Regarding tools, Trac is a nice Python tool. It has an integrated wiki
for all tickets, etc. The only weakness I perceive in Trac is the
inability to customize the wiki syntax. Otherwise, it would be great
to integrate Markdown with Trac and then be able to tout eating one's
own dog food. I'm presently stalled on development (curse of the
newborn and that whole family responsibility thing), but I was using
Trac with BZR.

Having offered some feedback, I'm generally a lurker and know the
community will make the right choice. :-)

-- 
Ben Wilson
"Words are the only thing which will last forever" Churchill

Re: [Python-markdown-discuss] the wiki

[Yuri T. <qar...@gm...>]

Well, unfortunately Trac installation turned out to be a nightmare due
to zillion unsatisfiable dependencies.  I had to give up on it.
Bazaar is still on the table, but I've exhausted my time quota for
playing with random new software and will have to take a break for few
weeks.

I think I am convinced theoretically about advantages that Bazaar
might offer over SVN, but it seems like there are a few other tools
competing in that space, e.g. Mercurial, git, etc.  I've been
wondering what the advantages and disadvantages are between those.

  - yuri

On Nov 7, 2007 11:49 AM, Ben Wilson <da...@gm...> wrote:
> On 10/30/07, Yuri Takhteyev <qar...@gm...> wrote:
> > I am curious if anyone else has opinions on that?
> >
> > First, on Bazaar vs. SVN.  I don't personally don't have much invested
> > in SVN and don't care that much.  What I worry about is: will moving
> > to Bazaar raise the bar for other people who want to check out?  In
> > theory, it seems, Bazaar is specifically designed to make it easier
> > for new people to join in.  On the other hand, I am wondering if
> > people might be turned off by having to install a new VCS.
> >
> > Second, any comments on Roundup and Launchpad?  Lauchpad seems to have
> > a nice community thing going, so if we want to switch to Bazaar this
> > might be a nice option.
>
> For my two cents, I have played both with Bazaar and SVN. I like both.
> If you are going to have multiple trusted developers, BZR is a great
> option because it offers distribution of the repository. SVN is good
> if you want to retain maximum control of the source code, IMO. BZR
> works best with ASCII/ISO text; SVN handles binary a bit better. SVN
> also has the advantage of being around for a while longer, but at the
> expense of having the RCS/CVS mentality about repository management.
>
> Regarding tools, Trac is a nice Python tool. It has an integrated wiki
> for all tickets, etc. The only weakness I perceive in Trac is the
> inability to customize the wiki syntax. Otherwise, it would be great
> to integrate Markdown with Trac and then be able to tout eating one's
> own dog food. I'm presently stalled on development (curse of the
> newborn and that whole family responsibility thing), but I was using
> Trac with BZR.
>
> Having offered some feedback, I'm generally a lurker and know the
> community will make the right choice. :-)
>
> --
> Ben Wilson
> "Words are the only thing which will last forever" Churchill
>



-- 
Yuri Takhteyev
Ph.D. Candidate, UC Berkeley School of Information
http://takhteyev.org/, http://www.freewisdom.org/

Re: [Python-markdown-discuss] the wiki

[Waylan L. <wa...@gm...>]

I may not be exactly right here, but my understanding is that
Mercurial, git and BZR are all 'distributed', while, of course, SVN is
not.  Mercurial and git, however, have a very different way of working
(or at least different commands/workflow/api) than SVN/CSV. BZR, while
more similar to Mercurial and git under the hood, offers commands and
workflow that SVN users will feel more comfortable with. I see it as a
nice middle ground. And if you want, you can use BZR in a remote
server type situation as well. The best of both worlds. I should
mention, this is all based upon very little time with  Mercurial and
git which I currently do not even have installed. However, I am
happily using both bzr and svn and don't really care which way we go.

On 11/7/07, Yuri Takhteyev <qar...@gm...> wrote:
> Well, unfortunately Trac installation turned out to be a nightmare due
> to zillion unsatisfiable dependencies.  I had to give up on it.
> Bazaar is still on the table, but I've exhausted my time quota for
> playing with random new software and will have to take a break for few
> weeks.
>
> I think I am convinced theoretically about advantages that Bazaar
> might offer over SVN, but it seems like there are a few other tools
> competing in that space, e.g. Mercurial, git, etc.  I've been
> wondering what the advantages and disadvantages are between those.
>
>   - yuri
>
> On Nov 7, 2007 11:49 AM, Ben Wilson <da...@gm...> wrote:
> > On 10/30/07, Yuri Takhteyev <qar...@gm...> wrote:
> > > I am curious if anyone else has opinions on that?
> > >
> > > First, on Bazaar vs. SVN.  I don't personally don't have much invested
> > > in SVN and don't care that much.  What I worry about is: will moving
> > > to Bazaar raise the bar for other people who want to check out?  In
> > > theory, it seems, Bazaar is specifically designed to make it easier
> > > for new people to join in.  On the other hand, I am wondering if
> > > people might be turned off by having to install a new VCS.
> > >
> > > Second, any comments on Roundup and Launchpad?  Lauchpad seems to have
> > > a nice community thing going, so if we want to switch to Bazaar this
> > > might be a nice option.
> >
> > For my two cents, I have played both with Bazaar and SVN. I like both.
> > If you are going to have multiple trusted developers, BZR is a great
> > option because it offers distribution of the repository. SVN is good
> > if you want to retain maximum control of the source code, IMO. BZR
> > works best with ASCII/ISO text; SVN handles binary a bit better. SVN
> > also has the advantage of being around for a while longer, but at the
> > expense of having the RCS/CVS mentality about repository management.
> >
> > Regarding tools, Trac is a nice Python tool. It has an integrated wiki
> > for all tickets, etc. The only weakness I perceive in Trac is the
> > inability to customize the wiki syntax. Otherwise, it would be great
> > to integrate Markdown with Trac and then be able to tout eating one's
> > own dog food. I'm presently stalled on development (curse of the
> > newborn and that whole family responsibility thing), but I was using
> > Trac with BZR.
> >
> > Having offered some feedback, I'm generally a lurker and know the
> > community will make the right choice. :-)
> >
> > --
> > Ben Wilson
> > "Words are the only thing which will last forever" Churchill
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Yuri Takhteyev
> Ph.D. Candidate, UC Berkeley School of Information
> http://takhteyev.org/, http://www.freewisdom.org/
>
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>


-- 
----
Waylan Limberg
wa...@gm...

Re: [Python-markdown-discuss] the wiki

[Ben W. <da...@gm...>]

On 11/7/07, Waylan Limberg <wa...@gm...> wrote:
> I may not be exactly right here, but my understanding is that
> Mercurial, git and BZR are all 'distributed', while, of course, SVN is
> not.  Mercurial and git, however, have a very different way of working
> (or at least different commands/workflow/api) than SVN/CSV. BZR, while
> more similar to Mercurial and git under the hood, offers commands and
> workflow that SVN users will feel more comfortable with. I see it as a
> nice middle ground. And if you want, you can use BZR in a remote
> server type situation as well. The best of both worlds. I should
> mention, this is all based upon very little time with  Mercurial and
> git which I currently do not even have installed. However, I am
> happily using both bzr and svn and don't really care which way we go.

You're pretty much right on there. Bazaar is written in Python, if I'm
not mistaken. Guido uses GIT, IIRC, as he authored it. I've used BZR
and had little problem figuring it out. It feels like SVN at first but
it is different. With GIT, there are more commands to execute the same
functionality as BZR.

-- 
Ben Wilson
"Words are the only thing which will last forever" Churchill

Re: [Python-markdown-discuss] the wiki

[Trent M. <tr...@gm...>]

> You're pretty much right on there. Bazaar is written in Python, if I'm
> not mistaken. Guido uses GIT, IIRC, as he authored it. I've used BZR

You are mixing Guido with Linus. Linus uses GIT. He authored it -- at
least initially.

Guido uses svn (for Python) and Perforce (at his work at Google) and
probably others.


Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
tr...@gm...