Re: [Pyarie-users] simultaneous solutions

[John P. M. <pen...@en...>]

Hello Nicolas,

My apologies, it's not your fault at all. I was reading it with 
something else in mind.

Yes, the system is developed in that fashion. This was only because I 
developed it based on the way I work through my equations (i.e. stepping 
through successivly dependent equations).

I can see the utility of what you are saying. I am not aware of this 
functionality in SimPy, but neither am I very familiar with SimPy. If it 
is within that system, it might be easy to implement in Pyarie.

I'll have to think a while on how best to implement this. I'd want to do 
it in such a way that overall programming for each user is not 
significantly increased. One suggestion is making an pamEquation base 
class, but that might make things more complicated all around.

I'll think about this.

-j

Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
> Hello John,
> 
> I seems that I haven't made myself clear( I told you that my english
> was not so good ;-) ).
> My concern was that I was looking for a convenient way for our future
> users to design the system.
> 
> In a procedural world, users have to take care and be careful of how
> they place their function calls : C depends of A and B, so I have to
> call C _after_ calling A and B, and so on... It leads to many hassles...
> 
> In the system you sent, on line 44 ("# MUST BE IN PROPER ORDER"), it
> appears that you also have to design it while having in mind who has to
> be called first.
> 
> In theory, I think that you can deduce the correct tree call if you know
> on which systems each system has influence.
> If I give you A,B and C and told you that :
> 1) A had effect on C
> 2) B had effect on C
> 
> You'll deduce that you have to call A and B, before C (I implicitly
> assume that every system has access to every state variables from
> previous step).
> So if they have a complex model, users only have to concentrate on local
> actions, and let the program compute if they made an error and got an
> algebraical loop :
> 1) A had effet on C
> 2) B had effet on C
> 3) C had effect on A
> 
> It seems that SimPy has somehow this kind of algorithm to deduce a tree
> call from such informations, or am I mistaken ?
> 
> For instance, we can have a cannon ball simulation with only at first
> the earth system (gravity) and the ball.
> Then come another user, who want to add atmosphere friction to this
> model without having to modify too much the model. All he had to do is
> to declare that its Atmosphere system has effect on the ball.
> 
> Hope that you will understand what I'm trying to say...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:01:53 -0700, John Pennington Metta
> <pen...@en...> wrote :
> 
> 
>>Nicolas,
>>
>>This is already functional, it's just not "hooked up" in the model you
>>have.
>>
>>I'll try to explain and you tell me if this is not what you are
>>seeking.  Note: I've renamed the methods, so instead of
>>nitrogenBacteria() and  nitrogenCycling() in testmodel.py, think of
>>them as System() (as in the  system of equations) and Model() (as in
>>what might hold multiple systems).
>>
>>The simple case is that at a given timestep, the SimPy iterate()
>>(within  the model class) function calls the step() method of the
>>chosen  integrator (runge-kutta, adaptive, etc). The step method
>>requires 4  arguments: an array of the governing system (the
>>equations), array of  the current state variable values, the time
>>(SimPy.now()) and the timestep.
>>
>>The step() method then calls each function in a FOR loop and
>>calculates  a new state variable value at t given the array of state
>>variables that  has been calculated at time t-1 (which was passed to
>>it as stated  above). Since the governing equations can be anything,
>>and have access  to the entire array of state variables, any equation
>>has full access to  the values calculated at the previous timestep.
>>This means, using your  example that stateC could be calculated for
>>time t with values for  stateA and stateB that were calculated at time
>>t-1.
>>
>>Now, as I understand it, you wish to calculate stateC at time t with 
>>values from stateA and stateB that were calculated at time t. This, or
>>
>>you wish to mix, using some values from the previous timestep and some
>>
>>from the current calculations. Is this correct?
>>
>>I've attached a new testmodel.py file to illustrate this. It's a real 
>>simple concept in theory. Basically, you create a list within System 
>>(cur_state) which holds the values at time t. You can access these 
>>values from within each function as you see fit (see example state 
>>functions). The list is empty in Model because it is populated in
>>System  by copying in the initial conditions. It's important to use
>>Python's  copy module, so you copy the VALUES and not the REFERENCES
>>into the  cur_state list.
>>
>>I don't know if this model will run as is, but it should be a good 
>>enough example to illustrate how to do what you need, assuming I 
>>understand correctly.
>>
>>Your English is perfectly fine. I didn't realize you were a
>>francophone  until you said that and I looked at your email.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>-J
>>
>>Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
>>
>> > For instance, let's say we have a closed system : A and B have
>> > effects on C and C has effects on B.
>> > In a procedural language, I'll do the loop like this :
>> >
>> > 10:
>> > computeA(stateA, outA)
>> > computeB(stateB, outC, outB)
>> > computeC(stateC, outA, outB, outC)
>> > goto 10
>> >
>> > In reality we can have a much more complex tree, so do we have to
>> > somehow design a solver which deduce the tree call from the
>> > informations or do we have to input the tree as well ? I think that
>> > somehow it is already solved in SimPy...
>>
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
John Metta (yes, my name has indeed changed...)
http://oregonstate.edu/~penningj/
"A computer without windows is like a dog
     without bricks tied to its head."