From: Tony M. <t-...@ih...> - 2005-07-25 23:18:49
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> Some one else pointed out recently that msvcr71 is included=20 > in the FREE MS 7 compiler and .NET download (~130MB), so it=20 > is available for redistribution, just an extra pain. No, no, no! The free Microsoft compiler does include msvcr71.dll, so = you can get it from there to use for your own purposes. The free compiler *DOES NOT* include the right to *distribute* = msvcrt71.dll. =3DTony.Meyer |
From: Ray S. <ra...@bl...> - 2005-07-25 23:44:39
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At 04:18 PM 7/25/2005, Tony Meyer wrote: >> Some one else pointed out recently that msvcr71 is included >> in the FREE MS 7 compiler and .NET download (~130MB), so it >> is available for redistribution, just an extra pain. > >No, no, no! The free Microsoft compiler does include msvcr71.dll, so you >can get it from there to use for your own purposes. > >The free compiler *DOES NOT* include the right to *distribute* msvcrt71.dll. Hi Tony, Yes, true on both; I had to review the EULA, again... This tying of Python 2.4 to MSC 7.1 is quite a thorny issue; perhaps more should be done and advertised on the ming compiler. Cheers, Ray |
From: Michael F. <mi...@pc...> - 2005-07-26 07:47:09
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Ray Schumacher wrote: >At 04:18 PM 7/25/2005, Tony Meyer wrote: > > >>>Some one else pointed out recently that msvcr71 is included >>>in the FREE MS 7 compiler and .NET download (~130MB), so it >>>is available for redistribution, just an extra pain. >>> >>> >>No, no, no! The free Microsoft compiler does include msvcr71.dll, so you >>can get it from there to use for your own purposes. >> >>The free compiler *DOES NOT* include the right to *distribute* msvcrt71.dll. >> >> Hmmm... it does talk about redistributable object code. Can you point me to the part of the EULA which forbids it ? Best Regards, Fuzzy http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python > >Hi Tony, > >Yes, true on both; I had to review the EULA, again... >This tying of Python 2.4 to MSC 7.1 is quite a thorny issue; perhaps more should be done and advertised on the ming compiler. > >Cheers, >Ray > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- >SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies >from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, >informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to >speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click >_______________________________________________ >Py2exe-users mailing list >Py2...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/py2exe-users > > > > > |
From: Ray S. <ra...@bl...> - 2005-07-26 18:44:39
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At 12:47 AM 7/26/2005, Michael Foord wrote: >Ray Schumacher wrote: >>At 04:18 PM 7/25/2005, Tony Meyer wrote:> >>>>Some one else pointed out recently that msvcr71 is included >>>>in the FREE MS 7 compiler and .NET download (~130MB), so it >>>>is available for redistribution, just an extra pain. >>>> >>>No, no, no! The free Microsoft compiler does include msvcr71.dll, so you >>>can get it from there to use for your own purposes. >>> >>>The free compiler *DOES NOT* include the right to *distribute* msvcrt71.dll. > >Hmmm... it does talk about redistributable object code. Can you point me >to the part of the EULA which forbids it ? The runtime is not part of the free download, it only comes with Python and various Python projects. In http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/eula.aspx and see the thread with Thomas Heller http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.py2exe/652 that includes much of the EULA And C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003\redist.txt There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix ".lib") will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. However, also from sec 3.1, my read (re: and earlier post) that if a Python or py2exe dev member with an MSVC7 license compiled a hello-demo exe and distributed it with Python or py2exe, then other users could then use it if they supplied the demo.exe in the /lib or such: You also agree not to permit further distribution of the Redistributables by your end users except you may permit further redistribution of the Redistributables by your distributors to your end-user customers if your distributors only distribute the Redistributables in conjunction with, and as part of, the Licensee Software and you and your distributors comply with all other terms of this EULA. Further, (my viewpoint) from the above section it seems to me that all files that are redistributable and included with Python should be able to be further distributed by us developers if we include python.exe with our apps: replace "you" with "Python.org", and "distributors" with "developers" in the above section; "end-user customers" are our clients. This was also suggested in a Spambayes thread, and Heller's take, I think. If you say that Python.exe needs more than python24.dll and msvcr71.dll, well that might be true, but no one ever says that the programs you create/distribute have to work ;-) The thread Tony Meyer started http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-February/thread.html#51404 also has much discussion, but I believe the above would still hold. There is a listing of the msvcrt*.dll files in my REDIST.TXT under REDISTRIBUTABLE CODE - Extended Use: and SAMPLE CODE: sections of MS VS 6 and 7. There is also a parallel thread on the QT forum:http://www.qtforum.org/search.php?action=user&userid=6368&sid=2fe7cfb4d60c4a292321073af30e409b The MSVC++ Express http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/visualc/ specifically prohibits any redistribution. Microsoft Visual C++ .NET 2003 Standard is $109 and might be the cheapest (cheaper than a lawyer) sure solution http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/visualc/default.aspx short of recompiling all of Python with mingw. Ugg. Ray |
From: Meyer, T. <T.A...@ma...> - 2005-07-27 04:28:25
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> Hmmm... it does talk about redistributable object > code. Can you point me to the part of the EULA > which forbids it ? The EULA includes this text: """ 2.2 Redistributable Code=97General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, = royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of = any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT ("Redistributable = Code"). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable = Code, see Section 3.1, below. """ <http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/eula.aspx> So, in other words, you can redistribute anything that is listed in the = "REDIST.TXT" file (although there are restrictions later on about how = you must do that). If you have the non-free version, then REDIST.TXT = includes quite a few things, including msvcr71.dll. If you look at the = REDIST.TXT included with the free version, you'll see that it's empty = (i.e. you don't get the right to redistribute anything). (I believe you = have to download the whole thing to get this empty file, sorry, so no = URL). The real question WRT to Python & py2exe is whether or not distributing = a py2exe'd application is "redistributing Python" or not. If it is, = then that's legit (subject to various constraints). I've seen arguments = that it is - it does include the interpreter and everything, after all. = Only a lawyer (and IANAL) could give an authoritive answer, though, and = even then it would be safer to have a court tell you (i.e. get Microsoft = to sue someone and see what happens). =3DTony.Meyer |
From: Michael F. <mi...@pc...> - 2005-07-27 07:41:03
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Meyer, Tony wrote: >>Hmmm... it does talk about redistributable object >>code. Can you point me to the part of the EULA >>which forbids it ? > > > The EULA includes this text: > > """ > 2.2 Redistributable Code—General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT ("Redistributable Code"). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section 3.1, below. > """ > > <http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/eula.aspx> > > So, in other words, you can redistribute anything that is listed in the "REDIST.TXT" file (although there are restrictions later on about how you must do that). If you have the non-free version, then REDIST.TXT includes quite a few things, including msvcr71.dll. If you look at the REDIST.TXT included with the free version, you'll see that it's empty (i.e. you don't get the right to redistribute anything). (I believe you have to download the whole thing to get this empty file, sorry, so no URL). > > The real question WRT to Python & py2exe is whether or not distributing a py2exe'd application is "redistributing Python" or not. If it is, then that's legit (subject to various constraints). I've seen arguments that it is - it does include the interpreter and everything, after all. Only a lawyer (and IANAL) could give an authoritive answer, though, and even then it would be safer to have a court tell you (i.e. get Microsoft to sue someone and see what happens). > As you don't recompile any code, that would be my opinion (it is the Python DLL that requires the Microsoft runtimes right ? - and that is included unmodified). Anyway - thanks for clarifying it. Best Regards, Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python > =Tony.Meyer > > > |
From: Meyer, T. <T.A...@ma...> - 2005-07-27 04:31:06
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> Microsoft Visual C++ .NET 2003 Standard is $109 > and might be the cheapest (cheaper than a lawyer) > sure solution [...] short of recompiling all of > Python with mingw. The cheapest is to use Python 2.3, of course :) Most new modules in 2.4 = can be used in 2.3, anyway, so you only lose out on things that were = added to the core (@decorators, a bit of speed, and so on). Long live 2.3! <0.5 wink> =3DTony.Meyer |