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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-15 05:00:48
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Comrades, If nobody else wants to do it, I'll do it. But I think that having more people doing stuff is better, so shortly someone will be getting an assignment to look into Lua. ;) What we'll do for now is have one person research one topic (say, scripting) and report back in one week from now. I'll divvy out the assignments tomorrow in class (and e-mail them to the list, for the sake of those who aren't in the class). Progress report: Striker, the tile engine I'm writing, is now underway. The basic skeleton is in and working, and so I just need to add everything. And I'll do that tomorrow in class if I can. Later, Ben -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On 14 Feb 2000 ak...@me... wrote: > Ben, > I think I am going to turn the scripting over to you Ben, but I > am still going to look into it. I think I was thinking of a different > type of scripting then you are. But I will still help, i would mind > the AI. > > Harley (Gimli) |
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From: Don J. <dc...@ut...> - 2000-02-15 03:24:11
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Ben, I am not in AP Computer Science and so if you could leave my assignments with Mathew Davis or send them to me by mail I would appreciate it. Thanks. Don Jordan |
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From: <ak...@me...> - 2000-02-15 00:44:52
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Ben,
I think I am going to turn the scripting over to you Ben, but I am still going to look into it. I think I was thinking of a different type of scripting then you are. But I will still help, i would mind the AI.
Harley (Gimli)
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From: <ak...@me...> - 2000-02-15 00:20:14
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For one thing, lets try and keep the useless E-mails out of the Mail-list. Cause I just spent 15 mins deleating all the E-mails.
Harley
______________________________________________________________________
Check out Metallica's Official Web Site at http://www.metallica.com
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-14 23:32:15
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, Neil & Ariane Newell wrote: > We talked about levels a bit but I think it could be really easy to > implement them. Just block people from going to and from the levels > unless they are on a ramp. It would really be easy. > > 000000000111 > 000000011111 > 000112111111 > 111111111111 > 111111111111 > > Just prevent people from going 0 to 1 and vice versa. > Allow people to go from 0 to 2 and 2 to 2. > > -Than I don't think I quite understand -- is this a tile map? (I.e. the 0's are, say, grass, and the 1's are mountains and the 2 is a door) What I was thinking about as to levels (by levels I mean multiple floors, like basement and 1st floor and 2nd floor) was to just have a stairs tile, and then have a script attached to that which checks to see if any characters are on stairs tiles, and then moves them to the appropriate level (there could be 'up' stairs and 'down' stairs, which would make life easier). Later, Ben |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-14 23:30:08
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, Neil & Ariane Newell wrote: > Ok, I attached a picture of what I think would look cool. Ben and I > brainstormed through all of 2nd period and came up with some great > ideas. We are going to implement a camera system thats going to be > really neat. Let me know what you think of the picture. We also came up > with some weapon classes: > > swinging: sword > smashing: club, mace > projectile: bow's and wands > poke: pikes, spears and knifes > > I was also just thinking of armour classes > > light: Leather > medium: Chain > heavy: plate > > We talked about some neat features like possession and traps. Possibly > even levels. > Anyway's let me know what you all think. I'll be downloading the picture in a minute, so I can't comment on that quite yet. But it brings up something that needs discussing -- does anyone have a problem with large messages? If so (this one was 2 megs), we need to put files bigger than a predetermined amount either on a web site or an FTP site or something else. If noone has a problem with it, though, then we're fine. I'm going to update the design doc later today (or possibly during class tomorrow) with the ideas Nate and I talked about today. I'll also post what we came up with (later on). Reading through some books on game design, I've decided to shorten the design process so we can get to work sooner. Here's the proposed plan: I will start working on the tile engine immediately (today if possible). Other people will start writing proof-of-concept/prototype programs to test things (like character movement, networking, playing sounds, playing music, interfacing Lua, etc.). We want a playable demo as soon as possible. Right now it looks like we'll have a little bit more design (we need input on the design doc, by the way), and then we'll move into a play/test cycle (play the game, see what fits and what doesn't, fix it, and repeat). Tomorrow in class I'll give out assignments, and everyone will report back in a week. I think I'll be able to get the tile engine fairly close to done by then. Anyhow, start brainstorming and bring your ideas to class tomorrow. Later, Ben |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-14 23:17:10
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2000, Don Jordan wrote: > If there are any other things that we could need to do this programming > and/or art, music, etc. A pretty good place to find these is > http://www.gamedev.net. See ya. Yes, I would suggest that most (if not all) of you check out Gamedev.net. It has quite a bit of relevant information, which you all could benefit from. If anybody finds any other sites that have info like this (that have to do with any aspect of Project X), send the URLs to the list. Later, Ben |
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From: Neil & A. N. <nk...@us...> - 2000-02-14 20:16:01
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We talked about levels a bit but I think it could be really easy to implement them. Just block people from going to and from the levels unless they are on a ramp. It would really be easy. 000000000111 000000011111 000112111111 111111111111 111111111111 Just prevent people from going 0 to 1 and vice versa. Allow people to go from 0 to 2 and 2 to 2. -Than |
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From: Jon C. <gut...@ho...> - 2000-02-13 07:17:51
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I am sorry if anyone was offended by that joke, i did not intend it to be
crude or dirty in any manner. I didn't really think of it being dirty at
the time, I guess i didn't think about it too much.
My deepest apologies.
Jon,
Peaceout
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From: Jon C. <gut...@ho...> - 2000-02-13 07:06:28
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______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com |
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From: Louie M. J. <dc...@ut...> - 2000-02-13 05:35:31
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If there are any other things that we could need to do this programming and/or art, music, etc. A pretty good place to find these is http://www.gamedev.net. See ya. |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-13 03:47:32
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Comrades, Here's a little logo for Project X that I did up tonight (I was bored). It's nothing permanent, of course, but at least now we have somewhat tangible proof that we're getting work done. ;) Later, Ben -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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From: Cristian M. <cri...@ya...> - 2000-02-13 02:05:31
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Yes, most of the stuff I have written HAS been meant as a joke, and I don't appreciate this, whoever sent the message to Ben saying they didn't appreciate my (so called) humor, could have just as easily sent the E-mail to me and I would have stopped... I'm not gonna go on because I am really offended by this. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-12 22:20:16
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Jon, While you may have had good intentions, crude humor is unacceptable on this list. Please don't send such messages in the future. Thank you very much for complying. And this goes for everyone else as well -- this list will remain clean, since I don't like reading dirty stuff, and I'm sure many of you agree. Please note that I'm not ripping on Jon in any way -- humor is good, as long as it's within acceptable limits. However, don't take that as license to flood the list with jokes. We have a project to do, a limited time to do it in, and excess waste is just that -- waste. Occasional humor that is pertinent is okay, but keep all else to private mail. Thank you all very much. Later, Ben -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, Jon Cuevas wrote: > What did the elephant say to the naked man he saw?? > > "Dang, how do you breath out of that thing!" > > I think its alright to have some humor, sup Christian. > Chill, > Jon |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-12 22:16:54
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Harley (and everyone else), While I agree that it may be boring, it is *essential* to our game. Writing our own script engine, while cool, is basically out of the question, since there's no way we'd get that done in the time we have. We want to have a release version of Project X by the end of the school year, no later. Lua is fast (which I doubt we'd be able to do as well), it's been used in real commercial games (MDK2, Baldur's Gate, Grim Fandango), it's had a few years to mature, and so I think it's the prime candidate. Note that I'm not precluding other possibilities -- if someone finds an existing script engine that does what we need it to, I'm completely open to that. But at the moment Lua looks like the best option. So we'll have to sweat it out a little and figure it out, however mundane it may seem. I'll check out the UOX thing, though. Later, Ben -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On 10 Feb 2000 ak...@me... wrote: > Ben, > I have been looking over that tutorial, and it is not > something you want to sit and stare at for more than five mins, I keep > falling asleep. I do have one sugjestion. A Client-Server game I > have been looking at for a while now, called UOX. They made their own > scripting. and it would seem a lot easier to design something of our > own to make it easier for the public to script Project X. As I said > before Lua is not something everyone knows. Ben take a look at UOX's > scripting. www.uoxdev.com. Thanks > > Harley > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Check out Metallica's Official Web Site at http://www.metallica.com > For 200+ channel 24/7 commercial free music visit http://radio.www.com > > _______________________________________________ > ProjectX-develop mailing list > Pro...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/projectx-develop > |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-12 22:13:19
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Comrades, Here's my info: ICQ #: 31548750 First: Ben Last : Crowder Nick : Sledge -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, Tom O. wrote: > Everyone post their ICQ numbers so we have another way of communication. > My ICQ Number: 63976306 > Nickname: Oberon > First: Tom > Last: Ouyang > > Tom |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-12 22:09:56
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Comrades, Like I said in response to Harley's message, whoever figures out how to do the scripting will help teach everyone else how to do it. Scripts will be such a core part of our game that *everyone* on the team must, at the very very least, be able to read such scripts, and preferably write them. Also, as I said, if nobody else wants to take this up, I'll do it. But if somebody wants it, they're more than welcome to it. Later, Ben -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, Neil & Ariane Newell wrote: > Actually I looked for a scripting book or some sort of documentation but > I couldnt find a thing. I am at a complete loss at how we will implement > this. I have a ton of game design books and general programming > reference books, so if you want to take a look at these just let me > know. BTW Harley I found it :) > > -Nate > > > _______________________________________________ > ProjectX-develop mailing list > Pro...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/projectx-develop > |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-12 22:07:57
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Comrades, I've e-mailed Cristian about this, so hopefully it should stop soon. But getting back on topic... Ideas like the vehicles and such are good -- make no mistake on that. We probably won't implement them in the initial version, because we actually want to *have* an initial version. If we keep on stacking feature upon feature, we'll never get anywhere. And we only have less than four months anyway. *But* ideas are good for the reason that we want to not write ourselves into a corner that will exclude such possibilities. What I'm saying is this: we want to leave ourselves open to have vehicles at some future date, for example. We want the engines to be extensible enough that that won't be a problem. We won't actually do it just yet, but we want to keep it in mind and plan for it. So keep the ideas coming in, and I'll take note of all of them, but for now we need to concentrate on the simple stuff. Later, Ben -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, Neil & Ariane Newell wrote: > Stay serious, don't clutter up the forums with meaningless garbage. As > to the tank and vehicle idea, I really like it BUT we are thinking way > too big. We need to get the game working and the basic game, i.e. the > tournament working first, then we can think of tanks and planes, giant > robots, boats etc... can you say "Programming club 2000-2001!?" Anyway's > try to stay realistic with the time constraints we have, it will be hard > enough to get the game running, let alone feature XYZ. I really can't > wait to see this project finished, we have a great team and I think we > will be able to put out an awesome game. > > -Nate > > > > _______________________________________________ > ProjectX-develop mailing list > Pro...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/projectx-develop > |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-12 21:59:16
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Comrades, And the last one... Later, Ben -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:06:39 +1100 From: Peter Wang <tj...@al...> To: Ben Crowder <cro...@ne...> Subject: Re: [AGP] Lua scripting Ben Crowder <cro...@ne...> wrote: > Peter, > > Assuming you've used it, then, would you mind answering a few questions? Of course I've used it, otherwise I wouldn't be suggesting it. :-) I don't have any games ready to show yet, if that's what you mean. > 1. What kind of game(s) have you used it for? Did you notice any > limitations that would be an obstacle in its use with any certain type > of game or any gaming feature? I used it in an early version of Red Pixel II (networked platform kill-your-friends), but that was scrapped because it was too slow (I was doing too much in Lua -- see below). Right now I am using it to drive a GUI system, and I will be writing my map editor and a new version of Red Pixel II in Lua. (At least the map editor is possible; I did one using the Netscape JavaScript engine and Lua is equal or faster). My brother is in the early stages of an RPG system, but it's working well so far (meaning the bottleneck is not Lua). It should work with any type of game as the data types it gives you are a lot more flexible than in C, plus it supports OOP concepts more easily. If you need more speed, do more in C. Whenever I think "scripting might be too slow for this project", I remind myself that Quake used QuakeC :-) > 2. How well does it integrate with C? Are the scripts runtime > (interpreted) or compiled? Will I be able to control most of my game > logic with Lua? Integration with C is the easiest out of the interpreters I have tried, except for SeeR[1]. You will probably end up writing little function wrappers to mediate between Lua and C (different data types, sharing structures, etc.) This is quite easy since the API is stack-based, and there is also a toLua utility to help you if you get sick of it. You will occasionally need to read the source, however, as the docs don't cover *everything*. [1] SeeR is different, as the data types and function calling semantics are the same as C, meaning little/no conversion is necessary. However, you lose the benefits of a higher level language. Scripts are precompiled into byte codes, then interpreted (like Java, Python, etc). This makes it fairly fast, but retains the dynamicism of an interpreted language. You should be able to control most of your game logic with Lua, but of course this depends on your design. Experiment. IMHO one of the hardest things to do when using a scripting language is deciding how much you do in compiled code, and how much you do in scripts, trading off flexibility for speed, etc. (I still have problems getting this exactly right.) Hint: You should not be using many low-level Allegro functions in your scripts (e.g. doing your render loop in Lua). That is probably a sign that things will become too slow later (although it should be okay for RPGs and other sich games). > 3. Are there any open source games you're aware of that use Lua? I know > Grim Fandango and Baldur's Gate do, but not having the source available > -- you get the idea. ;) Not really :-( On the Lua pages there is a link to `HZ' which is an Allegro + Lua game. Although incomplete, some source is available, and the author has some interesting ideas about a "Visual representation" system (although I think it's a little overboard). Phew! You can tell I like scripting languages; I go off and write huge messages like this :-) If you have any questions, contentions or tips of your own, I'd love to hear them. Peter -- tj...@ps... - http://www.psynet.net/tjaden/ "There are no passengers on spaceship Free Software - we are all the crew." |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-12 21:58:56
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Comrades, Here's another one (there's one more, for a total of three). Later, Ben -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:34:13 +1100 From: Peter Wang <tj...@al...> To: Ben Crowder <cro...@ne...> Subject: Re: [AGP] Lua scripting Ben Crowder <cro...@ne...> wrote: > > Has anyone here had any experience with the Lua script engine -- > specifically, experience with it as a scripting engine for games? I'm > considering it for a project but wanted to get some input first. Only one thing to say: try it. It's fast, small and the best bit, the API is simple and to the point. Personally I've tried three or four different interpreters, and this one's the best of the lot. Your mileage may vary, of course. Peter -- tj...@ps... - http://www.psynet.net/tjaden/ "There are no passengers on spaceship Free Software - we are all the crew." |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-12 21:58:28
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Comrades, Here's an e-mail from one of the guys I asked (about Lua scripting). Later, Ben -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:17:27 +0100 From: Vincent Penquerc'h <ly...@ke...> To: Ben Crowder <cro...@ne...> Subject: Re: [AGP] Lua scripting On Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:44:10PM -0700, Ben Crowder wrote: > Since you've actually used Lua, would you be willing to answer a few > questions? Yup > 1. What kind of game(s) have you used it for, and how did you use it? Only one, a RPG. I expose my game internals in a form that Lua can call (it has a custom way to pass parameters most notably) and then a Lua script can call them directly. The other way round is possible too. > Did you notice any limitations that would be an obstacle in its use > with any certain type of game or any gaming feature? Well, not *that* much :) But I did not get too far with it anyway. I have it running in my game, but this is a simple implementation for now. I still have to do something more complex. But the good thing is that Lua offers a way to enhance its semantics: you can write routines to handle cases not originally handled by Lua (a little like C++ operator overloading, but much more powerful). This really helps in building complex Lua scripts, altough I did not write those in conjunction with my game. > 2. How well does it integrate with C? Are the scripts runtime > (interpreted) or compiled? Will I be able to control most of my game > logic with Lua? Once wrappers are written for your game's internals, those can be used in Lua scripts as easily as if they were builtins. There is a tool (toLua) that can be used to generate those wrappers from a cleaned C++ header file. Lua is higher level than C++, and provides a general purpose hash table facility, that can be used to simulate OOP, in parallel to game classes. Lua scripts are interpreted, but can be precompiled as Lua byte code. There is no such thing as a direct machine code compilation. It is fairly fast though, as long as you don't try to do too much with it :) > > 3. Are there any open source games you're aware of that use Lua? I know > Grim Fandango and Baldur's Gate do, but not having the source available > -- you get the idea. ;) I knew of these two too. I think the port of MDK 2 by Bioware will use it more extensively than BG. I know of no open source ones though. Try asking on lua-l :) > Thank you very much! You're welcome. -- Vincent Penquerc'h Windows NT - Nuke That ! |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-12 21:56:50
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I've e-mailed the Allegro list about Lua scripting, and a few guys have replied (that have actually used Lua in games before). I'm going to look into this and see what it's like, but if anyone else wants to jump in and do this -- research Lua and figure out how it can work in with our game -- then feel completely free to do so. Yes, we're all going to have to learn Lua eventually. I suggest that those who learn Lua (for whatever reason, whether it be interfacing it with everrything or networking or AI) teach those who haven't yet. Either that or they can write a simple tutorial on it -- if nobody else wants to, I'd be willing to do that. For those who are interested, there are mailing list archives on the Lua website (that have all messages posted since 1998 or 1997) -- some of that might help. Later, Ben (projectx) -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On 10 Feb 2000 ak...@me... wrote: > Hey, > If no-one would mind, I would really like some help on this > scripting 'Lua', I am having a difficult time understand the > instructions and how it really works. And one more thing, if project > X is going to be an easly scriptable game, then who ever is going to > script for it is going to have to know how to use Lua. > > Harley (Gimli) |
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From: Ben C. <cro...@ne...> - 2000-02-12 21:53:09
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I like the vehicle idea -- I really do. I can't imagine it being that hard to implement, so I'll stick it in the design doc. As to the period-limiting option, I think we could set up a few rules for which weapons go with which maps (i.e. each weapon, each map, each object, has a "period" that it fits in, and all the periods have to work together). Hmm, that doesn't sound entirely clear. I'm afraid I'm braindead, after thirteen-odd hours of debating at Model UN yesterday and Thursday. Once I recover, I'll write a more understandable explanation. But yes, it's a good idea. As to the multiple characters (groups), I forgot to put that in the design document. We need to decide whether or not it's such a good idea for our game. It would be nice, yes. If we decide to, then I'll put it in. Later, Ben -- "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, Tom O. wrote: > Since we are going for a modern/science fiction/fantasy arena type game, I > would suggest allowing the player to ride animals drive vehicles. We can > have tanks, cars, horses, dragons, etc. It would not be too difficult to > integrate into the game, and would add much to gameplay. > Also, would it be possible to have an option that would limit the time > period of a game? An example would be Ancient/Modern/Future, with each time > period having its own objects and player classes. This way, there won't be > such an imbalance between weapons and objects, ie. the sword and daggers > won't have to compete with the bazookas and laser rifles because they are > from different periods. > One question, are we still going to have multiple character per players, or > just one? > > > Tom (Oberon) > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > ProjectX-develop mailing list > Pro...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/projectx-develop > |
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From: Cristian M. <cri...@ya...> - 2000-02-12 05:15:10
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Harley, what is it with you sending E-mails just to
Jon & Than? How come you are not sending any to me,
Harley? What is happening between us? I know you have
to act like you don't like me, Harley, in class, but I
think it's time to drop the act and tell everyone
about us... now I know in tuesday you are gonna act
like nothing has ever happened, but now the entire
class knows, YEAH! and I don't care Harley, because I
can't deny my love.
=====
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/ /___ / /\__/\ \
/_____/ristian /__/ \__\oreno
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From: <ak...@me...> - 2000-02-11 22:52:41
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Hey,
Jonny I am going to wirte a little program in a little while that uses scripting, and then I will send it to you, so you can understand scripting a little more. Hey Thanwhen am I going to get that book.
Harley(Gimli)
______________________________________________________________________
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1 message has been excluded from this view by a project administrator.
