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From: Michael P. <mic...@gm...> - 2012-05-26 03:47:53
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On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:04 PM, 坂田 哲夫 <sak...@la...> wrote: > Suzuki-san, > > Now we are developing XC's peripheral tools like as back-up, performance > observation, fail over cluster. While developing, the tool development > team would ask some questions to XC core developing team. > People are free to ask questions to developers on this mailing list. So it can of course freely be used as long as those questions are really related to core functionalities, features, patches or performance. Well everything really related with the core of XC. In case the request is more general, I would recommend to use the general mailing list pos...@li.... For questions regarding tools, it depends but you should orientate your question to the general mailing list... If there are cases where the hackers ML (developer ML) is necessary you can also use it as well if you think so. In such a cases, we (NTT people) used to placing questions with 'Qustion > application form' which includes version of the system in question, > environment information (OS name and its version, hardware > configuration), operation sequence and its results and so on. (In short, > I mean something like NTT's "Bug-hyo"). > Because it is convenient for us to inform a reciever of things needed > completely and to manage each questions easily. > I believe that people using Postgres-XC mailing lists are free to use the format they wish. However to keep simplicity, and I personally love simple things, people answering such formatted requests are not obliged to follow a special format themselves. All the responses are kept on the same mail thread, so this is enough I believe. Keeping a certain freedom when writing emails here is kind of really important as the project is community-based, and basically should stay independent from any external formatting. If you report a bug, I strongly recommend to use the bug mailing list pos...@li... with the bug template located in doc-xc/bug.template in source. This bug template is already formatted and has all the fields already related to OS, version, etc. So you should definitely use that. The bug template is based on the same one as PostgreSQL, so as I am sure NTT guys are familiar with Postgres it won't be a huge effort to adapt to it. > I was wondering if you could accept the questions placed with such an > application form and write answers with it. > Once again, people willing to response to mails on this hackers ML are not obliged to follow a special format. If they wish to answer without any application form, they can do so. If they wish to answer with a given application form, well they are free to follow anything they wish. Personally I don't think an application form will permit to gain time, and email threads are enough. We have also email archives available with SourceForge services. So, if it is a bug, please respect the template in doc-xc/bug.template and send it to pos...@li....If it is anything else, at least in my opinion people are free to answer and interact with XC's mailing lists as they wish. -- Michael Paquier http://michael.otacoo.com |
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From: Koichi S. <koi...@gm...> - 2012-05-26 09:33:52
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Thanks Michael for the reply. I understand NTT how NTT people are doing inside and I think you can keep using it inside. On the other hand, to have response from many people, I have to say that Michael is right. It will not be reasonable to convince the people to use this. Instead, I advise to past your questions and reports to ML and paste the response to your form again. I think this will keep things move forward quickly. If you need an answer to a question "Is it all?" or "Am I all set?", we will be more than happy to response. I think this helps to close each of your format. What about the language? Of course, English is better. But if you feel it's not practical for the people to open an issue, Japanese may be okay. We can translate into English to help people to respond if the number of issue is not too many. I don't think you need responses translated into Japanese. Please let me know your idea. Regards; ---------- Koichi Suzuki 2012/5/26 Michael Paquier <mic...@gm...>: > > > On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:04 PM, 坂田 哲夫 <sak...@la...> wrote: >> >> Suzuki-san, >> >> Now we are developing XC's peripheral tools like as back-up, performance >> observation, fail over cluster. While developing, the tool development >> team would ask some questions to XC core developing team. > > People are free to ask questions to developers on this mailing list. > So it can of course freely be used as long as those questions are really > related to core functionalities, features, patches or performance. Well > everything really related with the core of XC. > > In case the request is more general, I would recommend to use the general > mailing list pos...@li.... > For questions regarding tools, it depends but you should orientate your > question to the general mailing list... If there are cases where the hackers > ML (developer ML) is necessary you can also use it as well if you think so. > >> In such a cases, we (NTT people) used to placing questions with 'Qustion >> application form' which includes version of the system in question, >> environment information (OS name and its version, hardware >> configuration), operation sequence and its results and so on. (In short, >> I mean something like NTT's "Bug-hyo"). >> Because it is convenient for us to inform a reciever of things needed >> completely and to manage each questions easily. > > I believe that people using Postgres-XC mailing lists are free to use the > format they wish. However to keep simplicity, and I personally love simple > things, people answering such formatted requests are not obliged to follow a > special format themselves. > All the responses are kept on the same mail thread, so this is enough I > believe. Keeping a certain freedom when writing emails here is kind of > really important as the project is community-based, and basically should > stay independent from any external formatting. > > If you report a bug, I strongly recommend to use the bug mailing > list pos...@li... with the bug template located in > doc-xc/bug.template in source. This bug template is already formatted and > has all the fields already related to OS, version, etc. So you should > definitely use that. The bug template is based on the same one as > PostgreSQL, so as I am sure NTT guys are familiar with Postgres it won't be > a huge effort to adapt to it. > >> >> I was wondering if you could accept the questions placed with such an >> application form and write answers with it. > > Once again, people willing to response to mails on this hackers ML are not > obliged to follow a special format. If they wish to answer without any > application form, they can do so. If they wish to answer with a given > application form, well they are free to follow anything they wish. > Personally I don't think an application form will permit to gain time, and > email threads are enough. We have also email archives available with > SourceForge services. > So, if it is a bug, please respect the template in doc-xc/bug.template and > send it to pos...@li....If it is anything else, at > least in my opinion people are free to answer and interact with XC's mailing > lists as they wish. > -- > Michael Paquier > http://michael.otacoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > Postgres-xc-bugs mailing list > Pos...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-bugs > |
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From: Michael P. <mic...@gm...> - 2012-05-26 11:05:59
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On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Koichi Suzuki <koi...@gm...> wrote: > Thanks Michael for the reply. > > I understand NTT how NTT people are doing inside and I think you can > keep using it inside. On the other hand, to have response from many > people, I have to say that Michael is right. It will not be > reasonable to convince the people to use this. Instead, I advise to > past your questions and reports to ML and paste the response to your > form again. I think this will keep things move forward quickly. > > If you need an answer to a question "Is it all?" or "Am I all set?", > we will be more than happy to response. I think this helps to close > each of your format. > > What about the language? Of course, English is better. But if you > feel it's not practical for the people to open an issue, Japanese may > be okay. We can translate into English to help people to respond if > the number of issue is not too many. I don't think you need > responses translated into Japanese. > English is mandatory on this mailing list. Without giving precise numbers about registered people, less than 10% of the people registered to this mailing list can read and write Japanese. AFAIK, I am the only non-national able to do that. So by sending messages in Japanese to this mailing list, 90% of the people won't be able to get what is spoken about because of the language barrier, That is honestly too much. If some people feel more confortable in Japanese what we could do is create a special mailing list only for Japanese speakers, this will avoid any language inconvenience to the other users, and people willing to speak in Japanese could do it freely there. However you have to consider that you will really get an answer faster if you send your messages in English here. -- Michael Paquier http://michael.otacoo.com |
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From: Koichi S. <koi...@gm...> - 2012-05-28 00:56:50
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One more thing: At least, subject should be in English to make it easier to keep track of each issue. Regards; ---------- Koichi Suzuki 2012/5/26 Koichi Suzuki <koi...@gm...>: > Thanks Michael for the reply. > > I understand NTT how NTT people are doing inside and I think you can > keep using it inside. On the other hand, to have response from many > people, I have to say that Michael is right. It will not be > reasonable to convince the people to use this. Instead, I advise to > past your questions and reports to ML and paste the response to your > form again. I think this will keep things move forward quickly. > > If you need an answer to a question "Is it all?" or "Am I all set?", > we will be more than happy to response. I think this helps to close > each of your format. > > What about the language? Of course, English is better. But if you > feel it's not practical for the people to open an issue, Japanese may > be okay. We can translate into English to help people to respond if > the number of issue is not too many. I don't think you need > responses translated into Japanese. > > Please let me know your idea. > > Regards; > ---------- > Koichi Suzuki > > > 2012/5/26 Michael Paquier <mic...@gm...>: >> >> >> On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:04 PM, 坂田 哲夫 <sak...@la...> wrote: >>> >>> Suzuki-san, >>> >>> Now we are developing XC's peripheral tools like as back-up, performance >>> observation, fail over cluster. While developing, the tool development >>> team would ask some questions to XC core developing team. >> >> People are free to ask questions to developers on this mailing list. >> So it can of course freely be used as long as those questions are really >> related to core functionalities, features, patches or performance. Well >> everything really related with the core of XC. >> >> In case the request is more general, I would recommend to use the general >> mailing list pos...@li.... >> For questions regarding tools, it depends but you should orientate your >> question to the general mailing list... If there are cases where the hackers >> ML (developer ML) is necessary you can also use it as well if you think so. >> >>> In such a cases, we (NTT people) used to placing questions with 'Qustion >>> application form' which includes version of the system in question, >>> environment information (OS name and its version, hardware >>> configuration), operation sequence and its results and so on. (In short, >>> I mean something like NTT's "Bug-hyo"). >>> Because it is convenient for us to inform a reciever of things needed >>> completely and to manage each questions easily. >> >> I believe that people using Postgres-XC mailing lists are free to use the >> format they wish. However to keep simplicity, and I personally love simple >> things, people answering such formatted requests are not obliged to follow a >> special format themselves. >> All the responses are kept on the same mail thread, so this is enough I >> believe. Keeping a certain freedom when writing emails here is kind of >> really important as the project is community-based, and basically should >> stay independent from any external formatting. >> >> If you report a bug, I strongly recommend to use the bug mailing >> list pos...@li... with the bug template located in >> doc-xc/bug.template in source. This bug template is already formatted and >> has all the fields already related to OS, version, etc. So you should >> definitely use that. The bug template is based on the same one as >> PostgreSQL, so as I am sure NTT guys are familiar with Postgres it won't be >> a huge effort to adapt to it. >> >>> >>> I was wondering if you could accept the questions placed with such an >>> application form and write answers with it. >> >> Once again, people willing to response to mails on this hackers ML are not >> obliged to follow a special format. If they wish to answer without any >> application form, they can do so. If they wish to answer with a given >> application form, well they are free to follow anything they wish. >> Personally I don't think an application form will permit to gain time, and >> email threads are enough. We have also email archives available with >> SourceForge services. >> So, if it is a bug, please respect the template in doc-xc/bug.template and >> send it to pos...@li....If it is anything else, at >> least in my opinion people are free to answer and interact with XC's mailing >> lists as they wish. >> -- >> Michael Paquier >> http://michael.otacoo.com >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Live Security Virtual Conference >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Postgres-xc-bugs mailing list >> Pos...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-bugs >> |
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From: Michael P. <mic...@gm...> - 2012-05-28 02:03:57
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On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Koichi Suzuki <koi...@gm...> wrote: > One more thing: > > At least, subject should be in English to make it easier to keep track > of each issue. > Why not creating a new mailing list only for Japanese speakers? Most of the users here won't understand anything if the content of the message is in Japanese and they will could feel it as a spam. We should at least treat messages on separate mailing lists depending on language to avoid any inconvenience to any users that cannot speak Japanese. -- Michael Paquier http://michael.otacoo.com |
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From: Koichi S. <koi...@gm...> - 2012-05-28 07:07:02
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ML in Japanese may consist of very few people and will not benefit. For example, I'm subscribing JPUG ML but it is not active at all. I think it is better to have all in the same ML and encourage to post in English. We can expect someone to volunteer to help communication. Regards; ---------- Koichi Suzuki 2012/5/28 Michael Paquier <mic...@gm...>: > > > On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Koichi Suzuki <koi...@gm...> wrote: >> >> One more thing: >> >> At least, subject should be in English to make it easier to keep track >> of each issue. > > Why not creating a new mailing list only for Japanese speakers? > Most of the users here won't understand anything if the content of the > message is in Japanese and they will could feel it as a spam. > We should at least treat messages on separate mailing lists depending on > language to avoid any inconvenience to any users that cannot speak Japanese. > -- > Michael Paquier > http://michael.otacoo.com |
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From: Michael P. <mic...@gm...> - 2012-05-28 07:07:43
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On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Koichi Suzuki <koi...@gm...> wrote: > ML in Japanese may consist of very few people and will not benefit. > For example, I'm subscribing JPUG ML but it is not active at all. > > I think it is better to have all in the same ML and encourage to post > in English. We can expect someone to volunteer to help > communication. > OK. Let's simply avoid communication in Japanese. -- Michael Paquier http://michael.otacoo.com |
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From: 坂田 哲夫 <sak...@la...> - 2012-05-30 09:27:32
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Michael-san, Thank you for your advising how to report problems and to place questions. We understood your points; writing in English and in a plain text (not dedicated format like as I told). Hemmi-san, who is a member of XC peripheral tools, has writen some (bug) reports to the Postgres-xc-bugs mailing list in English and in plain texts. best regards, Tetsuo Sakata. (2012/05/26 12:47), Michael Paquier wrote: > > > On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:04 PM, 坂田 哲夫 <sak...@la... > <mailto:sak...@la...>> wrote: > > Suzuki-san, > > Now we are developing XC's peripheral tools like as back-up, performance > observation, fail over cluster. While developing, the tool development > team would ask some questions to XC core developing team. > > People are free to ask questions to developers on this mailing list. > So it can of course freely be used as long as those questions are really > related to core functionalities, features, patches or performance. Well > everything really related with the core of XC. > > In case the request is more general, I would recommend to use the > general mailing list pos...@li... > <mailto:pos...@li...>. > For questions regarding tools, it depends but you should orientate your > question to the general mailing list... If there are cases where the > hackers ML (developer ML) is necessary you can also use it as well if > you think so. > > In such a cases, we (NTT people) used to placing questions with 'Qustion > application form' which includes version of the system in question, > environment information (OS name and its version, hardware > configuration), operation sequence and its results and so on. (In short, > I mean something like NTT's "Bug-hyo"). > Because it is convenient for us to inform a reciever of things needed > completely and to manage each questions easily. > > I believe that people using Postgres-XC mailing lists are free to use > the format they wish. However to keep simplicity, and I personally love > simple things, people answering such formatted requests are not obliged > to follow a special format themselves. > All the responses are kept on the same mail thread, so this is enough I > believe. Keeping a certain freedom when writing emails here is kind of > really important as the project is community-based, and basically should > stay independent from any external formatting. > > If you report a bug, I strongly recommend to use the bug mailing list > pos...@li... > <mailto:pos...@li...> with the bug template > located in doc-xc/bug.template in source. This bug template is already > formatted and has all the fields already related to OS, version, etc. So > you should definitely use that. The bug template is based on the same > one as PostgreSQL, so as I am sure NTT guys are familiar with Postgres > it won't be a huge effort to adapt to it. > > I was wondering if you could accept the questions placed with such an > application form and write answers with it. > > Once again, people willing to response to mails on this hackers ML are > not obliged to follow a special format. If they wish to answer without > any application form, they can do so. If they wish to answer with a > given application form, well they are free to follow anything they wish. > Personally I don't think an application form will permit to gain time, > and email threads are enough. We have also email archives available with > SourceForge services. > So, if it is a bug, please respect the template in doc-xc/bug.template > and send it to pos...@li....If it is anything > else, at least in my opinion people are free to answer and interact with > XC's mailing lists as they wish. > -- > Michael Paquier > http://michael.otacoo.com -- 坂田 哲夫＠NTTオープンソースソフトウェアセンタ 電話：○三・五八六○・五一一五(代) sakata.tetsuo _at_ lab.ntt.co.jp ☆メアド変わりました oss→lab☆ SAKATA, Tetsuo. Shinagawa Tokyo JAPAN. |
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