postfixadmin-devel

[Postfixadmin-devel] database setup

[Farkas L. <lf...@bp...>]

hi,
i wouldn't like to go into the detailed discussion of database. just a
few of my thoughts:
- i would like to keep all of my database utf-8. otherwise always
happened something wrong.
- i don't like innodb since it creates a never ending growing files.
- i like to use mysql.
probably the best choice would be falcon, but the it'll be released only
next year. so i don't know the solution but something better then the
current.

-- 
  Levente                               "Si vis pacem para bellum!"

Re: [Postfixadmin-devel] database setup

[Christian B. <pos...@cb...>]

Hello,

Am Donnerstag, 11. Oktober 2007 schrieb Farkas Levente:
> i wouldn't like to go into the detailed discussion of database. just
> a few of my thoughts:
> - i would like to keep all of my database utf-8. otherwise always
> happened something wrong.

Can you define "something wrong happened", please?
I agree we need to use utf8 on fields like "description" which can 
contain text in any language.

However, fields like "domain" and "email" should be latin1 to avoid the 
utf8 overhead. Or do you really use utf8 in domain names and mail 
adresses? (I even doubt it is allowed.)

> - i don't like innodb since it creates a never ending growing files.

I never tested innodb in detail, but if this really happens, I would 
consider it worth a bugreport against MySQL (unless it is expected 
behaviour or a known bug ;-)

BTW: The reason why InnoDB is used is the foreign key with automatic 
cleanup (DELETE CASCADE). Maybe we could do it manually instead.

> - i like to use mysql.

I also ;-)

> probably the best choice would be falcon, but the it'll be released
> only next year. 

That's too late - and we want to have the least-possible requirements.
(In other words: we'll wait a year or two after release until we use 
falcon.)

> so i don't know the solution but something better then the current.

:-(


Regards,

Christian Boltz
-- 
Now I hope the best for my seven 1.44MB disks, oh yes, very old ...
and I feel about 8 years younger by copying files to disks.
[Thomas Porschberg in opensuse]

Re: [Postfixadmin-devel] database setup

[Farkas L. <lf...@bp...>]

Christian Boltz wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Am Donnerstag, 11. Oktober 2007 schrieb Farkas Levente:
>> i wouldn't like to go into the detailed discussion of database. just
>> a few of my thoughts:
>> - i would like to keep all of my database utf-8. otherwise always
>> happened something wrong.
> 
> Can you define "something wrong happened", please?
> I agree we need to use utf8 on fields like "description" which can 
> contain text in any language.
> 
> However, fields like "domain" and "email" should be latin1 to avoid the 
> utf8 overhead. Or do you really use utf8 in domain names and mail 
> adresses? (I even doubt it is allowed.)

i agree with that IF the database is utf-8 and those char field which
are not needed to be utf-8 are latin1, but i prefer this way and not the
opposite when the database it latin1 and some field are utf-8!

>> - i don't like innodb since it creates a never ending growing files.
> 
> I never tested innodb in detail, but if this really happens, I would 
> consider it worth a bugreport against MySQL (unless it is expected 
> behaviour or a known bug ;-)

it's well know imho you can find it after some google:-(

> BTW: The reason why InnoDB is used is the foreign key with automatic 
> cleanup (DELETE CASCADE). Maybe we could do it manually instead.

i understand the reasons i just tell my preferences.

>> probably the best choice would be falcon, but the it'll be released
>> only next year. 
> 
> That's too late - and we want to have the least-possible requirements.
> (In other words: we'll wait a year or two after release until we use 
> falcon.)

or we can define an alternative/testing database setup for falcon.

-- 
  Levente                               "Si vis pacem para bellum!"

Re: [Postfixadmin-devel] database setup

[David G. <da...@co...>]

Farkas Levente wrote :
> hi,
> i wouldn't like to go into the detailed discussion of database. just a
> few of my thoughts:
> - i would like to keep all of my database utf-8. otherwise always
> happened something wrong.
> - i don't like innodb since it creates a never ending growing files.

Can you provide more details on this - I've used innodb at work, and
never had a problem with it - it certainly hasn't used up all available
disk space!

Innodb is far better than MyISAM for a number of reasons - e.g.
transactions, acid compliance, foreign key support etc.
The _only_ reason you'd ever want to use MyISAM is for quick selects, or
if you want full text indexing (afaik). We don't need either, so it's
not a problem.

Innodb also doesn't do table level locking, which is probably a good
thing as the vacation tables are the only ones which are likely to
experience a lot of read/write traffic - all other tables are
effectively 'read-only' for the vast majority of the time.

(I hope that makes sense... I'm just pointing out that I think innodb is
a good choice for the vacation tables).

> - i like to use mysql.
> probably the best choice would be falcon, but the it'll be released only
> next year. so i don't know the solution but something better then the
> current.

We wouldn't be able to support falcon for some time - as Christian says
- partly because it'll take ~ 6 months for Linux distributions to catch
  up and ship with it, and partly because there will be a number of
  people not using the latest version of MySQL, who won't want to
  upgrade.

I thought Falcon is mostly a replacement for Innodb, to remove any=20
dependence on Oracle - in our situation, would it bring any new
functionality above innodb?

thanks,

David.
--=20
David Goodwin=20

[ david at codepoets dot co dot uk ]
[ http://www.codepoets.co.uk       ]

Re: [Postfixadmin-devel] database setup

[Farkas L. <lf...@bp...>]

David Goodwin wrote:
> Farkas Levente wrote :
>> hi,
>> i wouldn't like to go into the detailed discussion of database. just a
>> few of my thoughts:
>> - i would like to keep all of my database utf-8. otherwise always
>> happened something wrong.
>> - i don't like innodb since it creates a never ending growing files.
> 
> Can you provide more details on this - I've used innodb at work, and
> never had a problem with it - it certainly hasn't used up all available
> disk space!
> 
> Innodb is far better than MyISAM for a number of reasons - e.g.
> transactions, acid compliance, foreign key support etc.
> The _only_ reason you'd ever want to use MyISAM is for quick selects, or
> if you want full text indexing (afaik). We don't need either, so it's
> not a problem.
> 
> Innodb also doesn't do table level locking, which is probably a good
> thing as the vacation tables are the only ones which are likely to
> experience a lot of read/write traffic - all other tables are
> effectively 'read-only' for the vast majority of the time.
> 
> (I hope that makes sense... I'm just pointing out that I think innodb is
> a good choice for the vacation tables).

i know all the above except the file in /var/lib/mysql which holds the
database never get shorter. even if you delete all the tables. that's
way most people not like it. of course if the whole history (from the
creation and all changes) of the database is not too long than you not
recognize it.

>> - i like to use mysql.
>> probably the best choice would be falcon, but the it'll be released only
>> next year. so i don't know the solution but something better then the
>> current.
> 
> We wouldn't be able to support falcon for some time - as Christian says
> - partly because it'll take ~ 6 months for Linux distributions to catch
>   up and ship with it, and partly because there will be a number of
>   people not using the latest version of MySQL, who won't want to
>   upgrade.
> 
> I thought Falcon is mostly a replacement for Innodb, to remove any 
> dependence on Oracle - in our situation, would it bring any new
> functionality above innodb?

i hope it won't an all the time increasing file.

-- 
  Levente                               "Si vis pacem para bellum!"