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From: Phil H. <ph...@ow...> - 2021-07-09 19:24:42
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Although the original eXIf specification didn't mandate a location for the eXIf chunk, web developers are advising to ignore the eXIf if it comes after IDAT: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4929 As such, you may want to consider amending the specification to reflect this. Minimally, it should be recommend to place eXIf before IDAT for web compatibility. Or possibly requiring it to come before IDAT. - Phil Harvey |
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From: Soni L. <fak...@gm...> - 2021-06-01 16:37:48
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Not sure if anyone still reads this list, but... It would be useful if PNG had a chunk type for difftools/mergetools to use, in particular git difftools/mergetools, so that PNGs can be checked into git and later diffed and merged. In particular, in case of merge conflicts, a PNG should be able to contain all the conflicting data. Oh yeah, the tool would also be responsible for identifying what counts as a merge conflict, so some sort of configuration would be useful. (perhaps in-band, with another chunk? seems unnecessarily complicated tho, out-of-band would be more flexible and more useful.) |
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From: Chris L. <ch...@w3...> - 2020-12-17 06:46:28
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This was sent to png...@w3..., which used to forward here, but I haven't seen the message go by. Hi Everyone, I would like to suggest that we add a “chunk” to PNG which includes MPEG-ITU-ISO (ISO/IEC 23091) CICP value chunks to PNG. This will provide a method for still graphics to identify the format of the image which conforms with broadcast and cinematic presentation formats. All the best, ___________________________________ Chris Seeger Director, Advanced Content Production Technology Office of the CTO NBCUniversal, LLC -- Chris Lilley @svgeesus Technical Director @ W3C W3C Strategy Team, Core Web Design W3C Architecture & Technology Team, Core Web & Media |
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From: Jens K. <ko...@ma...> - 2020-04-13 12:54:26
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Hi Is there a site related to PNGs with a remarkable size/quality relation like the PNG Gradient [1]? Special size limits could be 725 bytes for the face header in mails [2] or (1K/)4K/16K/64K like demos have. If I search for "png small compression" I get many sizes offering services for recompressing PNGs Greets Jens [1] Source of PNG Gradient: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/PNG-Gradient.png [2] https://quimby.gnus.org/circus/face/ |
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From: <png...@al...> - 2020-01-07 08:16:34
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Hello list!
I'm trying to build libmng on a ppc64le Linux machine without success.
Relevant build log:
checking build system type... ./config.guess: unable to guess system
type
This script, last modified 2012-12-29, has failed to recognize
the operating system you are using. It is advised that you
download the most up to date version of the config scripts from
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=config.git;a=blob_plain;f=config.guess;hb=HEAD
and
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=config.git;a=blob_plain;f=config.sub;hb=HEAD
If the version you run (./config.guess) is already up to date, please
send the following data and any information you think might be
pertinent to <con...@gn...> in order to provide the needed
information to handle your system.
config.guess timestamp = 2012-12-29
uname -m = ppc64le
uname -r = 4.19.82-gentoo
uname -s = Linux
uname -v = #3 SMP Thu Nov 28 16:37:22 CET 2019
/usr/bin/uname -p = POWER9, altivec supported
/bin/uname -X =
hostinfo =
/bin/universe =
/usr/bin/arch -k =
/bin/arch =
/usr/bin/oslevel =
/usr/convex/getsysinfo =
UNAME_MACHINE = ppc64le
UNAME_RELEASE = 4.19.82-gentoo
UNAME_SYSTEM = Linux
UNAME_VERSION = #3 SMP Thu Nov 28 16:37:22 CET 2019
configure: error: cannot guess build type; you must specify one
make: *** [Makefile:384: config.status] Error 1
There is also a related Gentoo Bugzilla report:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/668676
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From: Cosmin T. <co...@cs...> - 2019-11-25 08:09:45
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On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 at 06:47, Marcus Johnson wrote: > I’m proposing to publicly register the bAYR chunk, which adds support for RAW images to the PNG specification. Hello, Marcus, and thank you for your proposal. > It is entirely backwards compatible with previous PNG standards. TL/DR: It won't work, for many reasons. >From what I know about the Bayer image representation, yes it has RGB image data in common with PNG, but it is otherwise incompatible with PNG in many ways. For that specific purpose, Adobe DNG is an interchangeable format that is much more suitable. There are many complexities associated with Bayer. For bit depths, typical values are 10-bit and 12-bit. They can be higher, all the way to 16-bit (for *very* expensive cameras, mind you), but the idea behind DNG compression is that they are efficiently represented due DNG's algorithms, suited by that kind of image data. The PNG representation is, on the other hand, suboptimal, at 16-bit only, which is enforced by the inner workings of the zlib compression. With that consideration alone, and presuming that everything else would work (although, spoiler alert, it doesn't): why would anybody prefer PNG over DNG? Even more importantly, most-importantly perhaps, you have the following fundamental limitation: storing the average between two greens in IDAT, plus the difference in a fDAT-like chunk, is asking for trouble. If you place the difference in an ancillary chunk, you risk losing 50% of your green channel -- big No-No from photographers. And if you place the difference in a newly-invented critical chunk, you break PNG -- big No-No from our group. For the above-mentioned reasons, Bayer image representation is a non-starter for PNG. There is no good choice available: only a bunch of bad choices. And there's more. For example, DNG accounts for the fact that lens manufacturers may opt to leave some of their "digital" lenses optically-uncorrected, as a deliberate design choice. AFAIK virtually all mirrorless mounts allow that. And virtually all point-and-shoot cameras capable of wide-angle, too. The lens distortion parameters (barrel, pincushion, moustache, etc., with their specific details and metrics) may be encoded into the lens, transmitted via the lens contacts from the lens to the camera, and encoded into the EXIF. The DNG-aware decoders will then apply the "inverse distortion" transformation, effectively linearizing the image. And you have a licensing problem here. The linearization step is not an option if the manufacturer says so. (And to the best of my knowledge, all manufacturers say so: none of them want their users to end up getting distorted photos, either accidentally or intentionally.) I'm aware that some DNG image processors allow the users to disable distortion correction, e.g. to improve sharpness, or for some artistic effect. But I'm not so sure about the legitimacy of that option, as far as DNG licensing is concerned. My point: distortion correction would have to be a critical chunk, too, if it were to be encoded in PNG. And leaving aside the virtually impossible logistics of introducing a new critical chunk: such a critical chunk would be a pretty darned complicated one, imposing a pretty heavy burden on all PNG decoders. So even if we'd have started PNG from scratch today, it still wouldn't work, unless you'd make it extra-complicated and burdened with licensing restrictions. And you already have something for that, anyway: you have DNG. Last but not least, the Bayer color channels are not co-sited, but alternating in a pattern. (The Bayer pattern.) However, the PNG color channels are co-sited: every RGB pixel is R-G-B on top of one another. The rendered Bayer images may look "ok-ish" at low resolution, but I expect them to become ugly (or at least "not nice") at full resolution. Sigma Foveon (excluding Foveon Quattro) is the only digital photography equivalent that would come even close to that RGB representation -- "close but no cigar" because Foveon, too, requires an additional kind of processing that just doesn't exist in the world of PNG. The only digital photography option remaining?... Leica Monochrom, anyone?... >From where I stand, Leica Monochrom is the only digital camera whose output *may* be well-suited for PNG representation. I have yet to see a Leica Monochrom camera in real life, and/or to meet a Leica Monochrom photographer. That will sure be an interesting encounter. Sincerely, Cosmin |
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From: Marcus J. <bum...@gm...> - 2019-11-22 23:15:56
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Is there a generic template for proposing new public chunks? |
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From: Marcus J. <bum...@gm...> - 2019-11-16 11:47:17
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I’m proposing to publicly register the bAYR chunk, which adds support for RAW images to the PNG specification. It is entirely backwards compatible with previous PNG standards. First, let’s talk about the name. The name comes from the Bayer filtering commonly used in camera sensors to take the 1 red, 1 blue, and 2 green photosites into the commonly used red, green, and blue channels for an image. The goal with the chunk name is to represent this relationship within PNG’s four character chunk naming convention. And to specify to decoders that this chunk is publicly registered, and it should be copied by default unless the image has been edited, and then it must be discarded if it can’t be regenerated. I’m a little confused about the naming convention though, so if I used the wrong spelling of the chunk name please inform me of this. How it works: Encode: Green1 and Green2 are to be added together, modulo 2^BitDepth (256 for 8 bit, 65536 for 16 bit, etc) and this average is to be stored as the green value for each pixel in the RGB stream within the iDAT/fDAT chunks. A difference signal is to be calculated as follows within the bAYR chunk as a zlib compressed stream. The difference signal is calculated as follows: (Green1 - Green2) % 2^BitDepth Decode: Green1 = ((Green + bAYR) / 2) % 2^BitDepth Green2 = ((Green - bAYR) / 2) % 2^BitDepth. Decoders that do not support the bAYR chunk will still decode the averaged Green channel within the regular image stream, and it won’t look any different than if the camera it’s self had averaged the green channels as part of demoisaicing. |
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From: Soni L. <fak...@gm...> - 2019-09-11 13:52:14
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Hi! I'm interested in using MNG in my game, but I have a few questions: Does MNG support overlapping layers and still images with those overlapping layers? If not, would it be possible to have it added? Does MNG support linking text to colors? (e.g. mapping colors to text) If not, would it be possible to have it added? My plans basically involve using MNG for GUI layouts. This basically means having an MNG called "layout.mng" containing layers like "background", "foreground" and "overlay", then using colors to represent UI elements and images (e.g. the background layer could be a solid color that references a background image "background.png"). UI elements would be further MNGs and so on until either code or an image is reached. Thanks. |
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From: Roland W. <wi...@gn...> - 2019-08-27 01:18:36
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On Sat Aug 24 2019 Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > The overlay of a transparent image on a background is not a function > of libpng. This is something that GNU Emacs would need to do while > rendering the image for display. If GNU Emacs was displaying a web > page, then I would assume it should use the background color that the > web page indicates. Sure! -- GNU Emacs already comes with pretty much all of this infrastructure. It turns out the problem was that emacs did not handle properly the tRNS chunk data for paletted PNG images. In the meanwhile, some emacs maintainers that are more familiar with the emacs image code than myself have come up with a patch for this that has about twenty lines in order to do the right thing. Thanks again for pointing us in the right direction. |
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From: Bob F. <bfr...@si...> - 2019-08-24 13:38:00
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On Fri, 23 Aug 2019, Roland Winkler wrote: > For GNU Emacs customizability is quite important. So it seems to me > it would make sense that it allowed the user to choose a custom > color for transparent parts of a png image similar to eog. I'll > discuss this on an emacs mailing list. I assume that libpng > supports this. The overlay of a transparent image on a background is not a function of libpng. This is something that GNU Emacs would need to do while rendering the image for display. If GNU Emacs was displaying a web page, then I would assume it should use the background color that the web page indicates. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfr...@si..., http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt |
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From: Roland W. <wi...@gn...> - 2019-08-24 02:54:31
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On Fri Aug 23 2019 Pavel Zlatovratskii wrote: > It's not looks like a bug in libpng and not corrupted image. > > Your image use fully transparent black as background using tRNS > chunk. Some software use neutral (grey or white) background and > image looks good. Other ignore transparency (and they are allowed > to do so as tRNS is an ancillary chunk) and draw background with > original black colour. > > You can check modified picture: three bytes black to white and > four bytes of CRC changed. Thanks a lot to everyone who replied to this thread. Now I understand much better how the problem comes about. The eog viewer lets the user choose a custom color for transparent parts. So with eog I happened to get for this picture what I was expecting to get because my eog was configured to use a white background. If I choose black instead, the figure is as "scrambled" as what I got from rpng. For GNU Emacs customizability is quite important. So it seems to me it would make sense that it allowed the user to choose a custom color for transparent parts of a png image similar to eog. I'll discuss this on an emacs mailing list. I assume that libpng supports this. |
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From: Pavel Z. <sc...@ya...> - 2019-08-23 19:46:06
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It's not looks like a bug in libpng and not corrupted image. Your image use fully transparent black as background using tRNS chunk. Some software use neutral (grey or white) background and image looks good. Other ignore transparency (and they are allowed to do so as tRNS is an ancillary chunk) and draw background with original black colour. You can check modified picture: three bytes black to white and four bytes of CRC changed. 23.08.2019 17:45, Roland Winkler: > The attached png image is not displayed correctly, and I am trying > to find out the cause of this. > > I am not a png expert. I ran into this because GNU Emacs (that uses > libpng) does not display this image as expected, unlike other > applications including eog and imagemagick. > > Then I built the test program rpng. It displays this image in the > same scrambled way as emacs. Is this due to a corrupted image (that > other applications handle more graciously) or is this a bug in libpng? > > Thanks. > > > > _______________________________________________ > png-mng-misc mailing list > png...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/png-mng-misc -- Have a nice DOS. Pavel Zlatovratskii sc...@ma...; sc...@ya... |
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From: Dustin O. <mys...@gm...> - 2019-08-23 18:10:15
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Even if Emacs agrees with it? Dustin On Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 12:57 Bob Friesenhahn <bfr...@si... wrote: > On Fri, 23 Aug 2019, Roland Winkler wrote: > > > The attached png image is not displayed correctly, and I am trying > > to find out the cause of this. > > > > I am not a png expert. I ran into this because GNU Emacs (that uses > > libpng) does not display this image as expected, unlike other > > applications including eog and imagemagick. > > Are you saying that eog and imagemagick appear to display the image > correctly? I looked at it with GraphicsMagick and it does not look > "scrambled", although the image is very tiny so it is difficult to > look at without magifying it. > > > Then I built the test program rpng. It displays this image in the > > same scrambled way as emacs. Is this due to a corrupted image (that > > other applications handle more graciously) or is this a bug in libpng? > > The probability that this is due to a bug in libpng is exceedingly low > since it likely has a billion users. > > It may be that there is a problem with how the test program was > compiled and linked. > > Bob > -- > Bob Friesenhahn > bfr...@si..., http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ > GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ > Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt > > > _______________________________________________ > png-mng-misc mailing list > png...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/png-mng-misc > |
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From: Bob F. <bfr...@si...> - 2019-08-23 16:57:07
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On Fri, 23 Aug 2019, Roland Winkler wrote: > The attached png image is not displayed correctly, and I am trying > to find out the cause of this. > > I am not a png expert. I ran into this because GNU Emacs (that uses > libpng) does not display this image as expected, unlike other > applications including eog and imagemagick. Are you saying that eog and imagemagick appear to display the image correctly? I looked at it with GraphicsMagick and it does not look "scrambled", although the image is very tiny so it is difficult to look at without magifying it. > Then I built the test program rpng. It displays this image in the > same scrambled way as emacs. Is this due to a corrupted image (that > other applications handle more graciously) or is this a bug in libpng? The probability that this is due to a bug in libpng is exceedingly low since it likely has a billion users. It may be that there is a problem with how the test program was compiled and linked. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfr...@si..., http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt |
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From: Roland W. <wi...@gn...> - 2019-08-23 15:02:56
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The attached png image is not displayed correctly, and I am trying to find out the cause of this. I am not a png expert. I ran into this because GNU Emacs (that uses libpng) does not display this image as expected, unlike other applications including eog and imagemagick. Then I built the test program rpng. It displays this image in the same scrambled way as emacs. Is this due to a corrupted image (that other applications handle more graciously) or is this a bug in libpng? Thanks. |
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From: Nancy Randers-P. <na...@co...> - 2019-06-28 21:59:37
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On 06/28/2019 10:48 AM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > Since Glenn has departed from this earth (and the raphicsMagick > project), we could really use a PNG expert to provide the > GraphicsMagick project with expert advice and perhaps even help with > implementing source code. I am able to work on most security issues > pertaining to the PNG module but lack the PNG expertise and time to > finish the parts which are not quite what they should be. > > Please let me know if you are interested in helping. > > Thanks, > > Bob Thank you, Nancy Randers-Pehrson -- Nancy M. Randers-Pehrson na...@co... 443-866-7263 (cell) |
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From: Bob F. <bfr...@si...> - 2019-06-28 14:48:31
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Since Glenn has departed from this earth (and the raphicsMagick project), we could really use a PNG expert to provide the GraphicsMagick project with expert advice and perhaps even help with implementing source code. I am able to work on most security issues pertaining to the PNG module but lack the PNG expertise and time to finish the parts which are not quite what they should be. Please let me know if you are interested in helping. Thanks, Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfr...@si..., http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt |
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From: Cosmin T. <co...@cs...> - 2019-06-18 05:21:38
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Christoph Päper wrote: > Those have been sad news. However, life goes on and I see that Cosmin Truta has taken over maintenance of [libpng], but does anyone (want/plan to) continue Glenn's work on [pngcrush] (and related tools) or is [OptiPNG] the future? There are still a few remaining issues with libpng, which I would like to resolve first. After that, my plan is to continue with both libpng and OptiPNG maintenance, in parallel. I have no specific plans for pngcrush, though. If someone else wants to take over pngcrush, or even OptiPNG, that'd be great. Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > Is pngcrush no longer working or otherwise known to need maintenance? About keeping pngcrush functional while libpng is continually updated, the responsibility is on libpng's side. I definitely want to preserve backwards compatibility in libpng as much as possible, and ideally not break libpng-using applications. About fixing defects specific to pngcrush, if there are or will be any, or adding new features, etc., a new maintainer would be highly appreciated. Sincerely, Cosmin |
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From: Bob F. <bfr...@si...> - 2019-06-14 14:58:15
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On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, Christoph Päper wrote: > Cosmin Truta <ct...@gm...> 2018-10-22: >> >> I am deeply saddened to inform you that Glenn Randers-Pehrson, our >> long-time group lead, passed away last weekend, following a long and >> painful illness. > > Those have been sad news. However, life goes on and I see that > Cosmin Truta has taken over maintenance of [libpng], but does anyone > (want/plan to) continue Glenn's work on [pngcrush] (and related > tools) or is [OptiPNG] the future? Is pngcrush no longer working or otherwise known to need maintenance? Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfr...@si..., http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt |
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From: Christoph P. <chr...@cr...> - 2019-06-14 10:13:40
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Cosmin Truta <ct...@gm...> 2018-10-22: > > I am deeply saddened to inform you that Glenn Randers-Pehrson, our > long-time group lead, passed away last weekend, following a long and > painful illness. Those have been sad news. However, life goes on and I see that Cosmin Truta has taken over maintenance of [libpng], but does anyone (want/plan to) continue Glenn's work on [pngcrush] (and related tools) or is [OptiPNG] the future? [libpng]: http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/libpng.html [pngcrush]: https://pmt.sourceforge.io/pngcrush/ [OptiPNG]: http://optipng.sourceforge.net/ |
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From: Phil H. <ph...@ow...> - 2019-04-12 12:42:14
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Hi Cosmin, Thanks for your feedback. > On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:00 AM, Cosmin Truta wrote: > > If Photoshop is ignoring XMP trailing IDAT, that's a bug. > > File a bug report, perhaps? Right. I would do this but I can't confirm that the bug still exists in the current version of Photoshop because my trial period has expired. (People like me who are averse to paying for subscription-based software are locked into using an older version.) - Phil |
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From: Cosmin T. <co...@cs...> - 2019-04-12 04:55:31
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 at 09:00, Phil Harvey wrote: > In a PNG image, the XMP uses an iTxt chunk, which according > to my reading of the specification may occur anywhere before > IEND. Is this correct? Yes, it is correct that iTXt may appear anywhere. Applications may impose additional restrictions on the chunk's content, and are free to ignore such content as they please, but that is not the case with XMP. > The XMP specification states: > "Encoders are encouraged to place the chunk at the beginning > of the file, but this is not required." Indeed. > But a single-pass metadata editor (such as ExifTool) must > write the XMP as late a possible to avoid the possibility > of writing duplicate or conflicting metadata. As a result, > by default ExifTool writes the XMP chunk just before IEND. This is an understandable restriction. > The problem is that Photoshop seems to ignore XMP if it > comes after the IDAT chunk, but as far as I know this > should be perfectly valid. This is very unfortunate, especially considering that the XMP support in PNG had been drafted and proposed to our group by somebody from Adobe. I understand the desire to place the metadata at the beginning, considering that it can be inspected without the need to load or download the whole image file. Especially if that image is coming on a wire, or if random file access is otherwise unavailable. But that's a non-normative recommendation. If Photoshop is ignoring XMP trailing IDAT, that's a bug. File a bug report, perhaps? Sincerely, Cosmin |
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From: Phil H. <ph...@ow...> - 2019-04-11 13:00:35
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In a PNG image, the XMP uses an iTxt chunk, which according to my reading of the specification may occur anywhere before IEND. Is this correct? The XMP specification states: "Encoders are encouraged to place the chunk at the beginning of the file, but this is not required." But a single-pass metadata editor (such as ExifTool) must write the XMP as late a possible to avoid the possibility of writing duplicate or conflicting metadata. As a result, by default ExifTool writes the XMP chunk just before IEND. The problem is that Photoshop seems to ignore XMP if it comes after the IDAT chunk, but as far as I know this should be perfectly valid. - Phil |
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From: Cosmin T. <ct...@gm...> - 2019-04-11 06:03:38
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Hello, everyone, In celebration of the publication of the first photo of a black hole, I am making this photo available in full-resolution, 30 megapixels RGB48 PNG. If anybody needs a large, metadata-rich, publicly-available PNG reference test image, this could serve that purpose. 7416x4320 pixels, 3x16 bits/pixel, RGB https://bitbucket.org/ctruta/space/src/master/eso1907a.png I converted this PNG image from TIFF using OptiPNG, and I optimized it further using ZopfliPNG. I updated its metadata using Exiftool. The original image is available in various formats, including high-resolution uncompressed RGB TIFF, on the ESO website: https://www.eso.org/public/images/eso1907a/ Enjoy! Cosmin |