Thread: [Plib-devel] (no subject)

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Hi,

new here, just got out of the PPE list as I was in the wrong development
list.
I've been trying to find the thread in SF on the FLT file reader/writer.
Never been involved in a CVS project before so this is my first time.
I like to write programs for converting 3D formats, especially those formats
from multigen. I've done one reader but didn't traverse the tree properly,
so couldn't display properly if there are different LOD's in the file,
planning to change that soon.

Aaron

delia wrote:

> I've been trying to find the thread in SF on the FLT file reader/writer.

It's called "OpenFlight loader"...there is no writer proposed as yet.

> Never been involved in a CVS project before so this is my first time.

It's quite an experience!  Welcome!

> I like to write programs for converting 3D formats, especially those formats
> from multigen. I've done one reader but didn't traverse the tree properly,
> so couldn't display properly if there are different LOD's in the file,
> planning to change that soon.

The first release of the new FLT loader was just committed I believe...you
should probably download it and see how it compares to your own.

You've gotta move fast around here!

-- 
Steve Baker   HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>
              WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
              HomePage : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
              Projects : http://plib.sourceforge.net
                         http://tuxaqfh.sourceforge.net
                         http://tuxkart.sourceforge.net
                         http://prettypoly.sourceforge.net

From: Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...>
Subject: Re: [Plib-devel] Is anybody writing a export routine for VRML1.0?

> I don't know of anyone writing ssgSaveVRML - and it would
> certainly be a very important thing to have since you'd
> be able to use PPE for modelling on the WWW.

I will provide it as soon as it is robust... Which brings up a few
questions:
Can the PLIB import routines import models which have more than one
texture? If so, will the model still have two or more textures associated
with it after the import? VRML doesn't limit the number of textures
associated with a since scene (i.e. model).

Does every model have material colors after importing? Even if they weren't
present in the imported file? (i.e. are defaults assigned?) Maybe this
question isn't as relevant for LWO or 3DS formats but in VRML every part of
the file is optional and you could be trying to import a VRML file which
only has vertices and indices for example...

I have been using vrmlview to test and the PPE converted models sure look
great in my project... The VRML exporter uses the same sub-set of VRML that
Blender uses. If anyone has created a loader that works with Blender's VRML
output then it should work with this exporter. I was interested in
providing my loader but you guys already have one and my loader is written
in bison/flex++ so it's not very accessible to the uninitiated...

> Well, that's still pretty brave.  I havn't switched over
> to PPE yet - and I *know* where most of the bugs are!  I am
> *gradually* starting to use it for some rather specific tasks
> that it's especially good at (or which AC3D particularly sucks
> at).
	Don't worry... I have only recommended PPE as a file format converter for
now.  We already have alot of our models drawn in Blender and are willing
to wait a while (or help out) for PPE to do texturing. We were looking at
trying to write our own texturing support directly into the game and use it
to save UV-skins to paint in GIMP but if it comes to that I would rather
try to add it to a GPL modeller somewhere. This is where PPE comes in...

> I don't think PPE is ready for big-time work yet...although
> it's *finally* starting to get close.
	Again, we would be delighted to just have load/texture/save...

> It would be interesting to hear what 'votre artiste de trois
> dimensions' has to say about PPE - and in particular what
> features are needed with the greatest urgency.
	The 'artist' hates FLTK and wishes you guys had picked GTK or something
attractive. But he is willing to give PPE a try as soon as it can do
something useful (e.g. texture a simple model). When that happens I will
encourage him to provide some feedback.

From: Wolfram Kuss <w_...@rz...>
Subject: Re: [Plib-devel] Is anybody writing a export routine for VRML1.0?

> AFAIK, no one works on a VRML exporter.=20
> AFAIK William LaChance, who wrote the importer is busy with non-PLIB
> stuff.
	Good... er bad... whatever, it won't be duplicated effort :)

> Regarding use of PPE, I have to agree with Steve.
> There is no sense in lying to the 3D artist and telling him its a
> finished product. However, if someone knowledgable, who knows PPE is
> unfinished, uses it, that should give us input.
	I haven't... see above. I think I struck a tender spot... You ever notice
how I always refer to the game I'm working on anonymously as 'my project',
it's not ready for publicity yet either...

> anim8or that was supposed to be green, was blue in 3D exploration and
> white in PLIB/PPE. Any comments from anybody? Warren, did you convert
> 3DS models with colour (not texture) as well and did it work?
	Yes, one of them wasn't texturing and it did import correctly. The colors
(red/cyan) came out fine in PPE after import. My VRML exporter doesn't save
the materials yet... I tried ATAKSHIP.3DS from www.3dcafe.com under Free
Stuff, Science Fiction. It's a great source of test models since they
provide a thumbnail picture of how the model should look for most of the
stuff. The licenses for most of the models are probably not GPL compatible
though.

Warren Wilbur

Warren Wilbur wrote:

> Can the PLIB import routines import models which have more than one
> texture? If so, will the model still have two or more textures associated
> with it after the import? VRML doesn't limit the number of textures
> associated with a since scene (i.e. model).

You can have as many textures per model as you like - what we *don't* yet
have is a good way to do multiple textures per polygon.

> Does every model have material colors after importing?

That's up to you.  We have the usual OpenGL lighting/material/colormaterial
mechanisms...so presuming you have lighting enabled, you can have either
ambient, diffuse, ambient&diffuse, emission or specular driven by the
polygon colours - with the remainder coming from the material colours...or
you can disable colormaterial and have all the colours come from the materials.

> Even if they weren't
> present in the imported file? (i.e. are defaults assigned?)

No defaults are assigned - your loader must generate any ssgSimpleState's it
needs.

> Maybe this
> question isn't as relevant for LWO or 3DS formats but in VRML every part of
> the file is optional and you could be trying to import a VRML file which
> only has vertices and indices for example...

I'd make a default white/untextured state to assign in those situations.

> I have been using vrmlview to test and the PPE converted models sure look
> great in my project... The VRML exporter uses the same sub-set of VRML that
> Blender uses. If anyone has created a loader that works with Blender's VRML
> output then it should work with this exporter. I was interested in
> providing my loader but you guys already have one and my loader is written
> in bison/flex++ so it's not very accessible to the uninitiated...

I'd like to avoid unnecessary dependancies - although I suppose we could distribute
the outputs from bison/flex (which is C source code).

>         Don't worry... I have only recommended PPE as a file format converter for
> now.  We already have alot of our models drawn in Blender and are willing
> to wait a while (or help out) for PPE to do texturing. We were looking at
> trying to write our own texturing support directly into the game and use it
> to save UV-skins to paint in GIMP but if it comes to that I would rather
> try to add it to a GPL modeller somewhere. This is where PPE comes in...

Yes.  We *really* need to get on with PPE - a lot depends on it - but it's a
heck of a lot of work.

> > I don't think PPE is ready for big-time work yet...although
> > it's *finally* starting to get close.
>         Again, we would be delighted to just have load/texture/save...

Well, you can project texture onto your model using a planar projection
using PPE ... but it's a bit painful.

> > It would be interesting to hear what 'votre artiste de trois
> > dimensions' has to say about PPE - and in particular what
> > features are needed with the greatest urgency.
>         The 'artist' hates FLTK and wishes you guys had picked GTK or something
> attractive.

What does he care?  The GUI looks however we want it to - the differences between
FLTK and GTK are basically down in the implementation.

The reason for not picking GTK is that when we started on PPE, GTK wasn't portable
to Windoze.  Since many of our developers are Windoze people, we couldn't use GTK.
Life has changed a little since then - but now it's too late.

> But he is willing to give PPE a try as soon as it can do
> something useful (e.g. texture a simple model). When that happens I will
> encourage him to provide some feedback.

You *can* texture a model *simply*:

  * Import your model.

  * Create a new material (click on the blue box in the toolbox,
    that brings up the material browser...click "New", then
    select the new material and click "Edit"...click on the texture
    tab, pick a texture map).

  * Select the polygons you want to texture. 

  * In the 3D viewer window click Selection/Set-Material:Toolbox=>Selection.
    (That applies the material shown in the toolbox window to the current
    selection).

  * Adjust the 'Current Plane' controls in the 3D viewer window to place the
    grid parallel to the plane you want to project the texture from.

  * With your polygons still selected, click Vertex/ProjectTextureFromCurrentPlane

The result will be that the texture will be projected from the grid - with one map
repeat for each green grid cell.

Unfortunately, the controls to resize the grid seem to have 'vanished' so you are
stuck with one map scale.  There is still a Python function to change it - but
that seems to have 'lost' it's GUI.

> I tried ATAKSHIP.3DS from www.3dcafe.com under Free
> Stuff, Science Fiction. It's a great source of test models since they
> provide a thumbnail picture of how the model should look for most of the
> stuff. The licenses for most of the models are probably not GPL compatible
> though.

There are a bunch of free models on www.turbosquid.com too - their licenses
are also somewhat 'difficult' for OpenSource people - but as a source of test
models to give our loaders a workout, they are excellent.

----------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------------
Mail : <sjb...@ai...>   WorkMail: <sj...@li...>
URLs : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
       http://plib.sf.net http://tuxaqfh.sf.net http://tuxkart.sf.net
       http://prettypoly.sf.net http://freeglut.sf.net
       http://toobular.sf.net   http://lodestone.sf.net

Thread: [Plib-devel] (no subject)

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