Thread: [Plib-devel] VRML Loader issues
Brought to you by:
sjbaker
Menu
▾
▴
plib-devel
|
From: Gil C. <g.c...@ca...> - 2000-08-11 04:20:30
|
At 10:12 AM 8/10/00 -0700, you wrote: >here's my current code: ><http://www.pond.net/~davem/stuff/blender_import/>http://www.pond.net/~davem/stuff/blender_import/ > > >i just got started with it so you can start over if you want. i was going >to use the ssgParser class in ssg. the WRL files in test_wrl.zip come from >exporting the blender examples. they should be useful regardless of your >approach They are - especially as they are in VRML1, not VRML2 as I was expecting. After VRML1->VRML2 conversion, there are syntax problems with them immediately - test1.wrl uses a transform node with negative scaling, which is illegal but accepted by "good" browsers. Hmm.... To provide a little background for my involvement, I offered to write a lex/yacc parser for the later VRML97 standard. The plan was to just support static geometry and textures - no sound, movies, animations, events, scripting, Java etc. The parser should read any valid VRML97 file without barfing, but will only actually populate an SSG scenegraph with geometry and textures. (Chris St. John has a partially complete parser/loader for VRML97 based on an ANTLR grammar, but he hasn't finished it yet. He recently mentioned some good "gotchas" which I'll refer to in my work.) There has also been a call for VRML1 support, as many CAD packages (and Blender) export this. VRML1 is very similar to the Open Inventor file format, but it's quite a different language to VRML 97 - IOW, the '97 parser won't read it. Since there would currently be a path to get VRML1 into PLIB via a VRML1->VRML2 converter and the VRML97 loader, my initial plan was to get the VRML2/VRML97 parser done and then come back to VRML1. With Blender's apparent export of VRML1, this might bump VRML1 support up the priority list. So what do people think - VRML1 or VRML97 first? Gil PS. If you're interested VRML2 and VRML97 are basically identical |
|
From: Steve B. <sjb...@ai...> - 2000-08-11 08:44:00
|
Gil Carter wrote:
> There has also been a call for VRML1 support, as many CAD packages (and
> Blender) export this. VRML1 is very similar to the Open Inventor file
> format, but it's quite a different language to VRML 97 - IOW, the '97
> parser won't read it.
>
> Since there would currently be a path to get VRML1 into PLIB via a
> VRML1->VRML2 converter and the VRML97 loader, my initial plan was to get
> the VRML2/VRML97 parser done and then come back to VRML1. With Blender's
> apparent export of VRML1, this might bump VRML1 support up the priority list.
>
> So what do people think - VRML1 or VRML97 first?
When Chris sent me the first beta VRML97 loader, I searched high and low
on the web looking for VRML97 models to test it against - the only ones
I *ever* found were on the main VRML organisations's pages!
I conclude that VRML2/97 is a failed standard that hardly anyone actually
uses.
Hence - since there are quite a few VRML-1 models around and LOTS of tools
support it, then we should go with that. Who knows, we might even get
an OpenInventor loader out of it 'for free' and with packages like COIN
floating around, this could become useful.
--
Steve Baker HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>
WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
Projects : http://plib.sourceforge.net
http://tuxaqfh.sourceforge.net
http://tuxkart.sourceforge.net
http://prettypoly.sourceforge.net
|
|
From: Chris P. <cj...@lo...> - 2000-08-12 23:52:01
|
On Fri, Aug 11, 2000 at 03:45:22AM -0500, Steve Baker wrote: > Gil Carter wrote: > > So what do people think - VRML1 or VRML97 first? > When Chris sent me the first beta VRML97 loader, I searched high and low > on the web looking for VRML97 models to test it against - the only ones > I *ever* found were on the main VRML organisations's pages! > I conclude that VRML2/97 is a failed standard that hardly anyone actually > uses. > Hence - since there are quite a few VRML-1 models around and LOTS of tools > support it, then we should go with that. Who knows, we might even get > an OpenInventor loader out of it 'for free' and with packages like COIN > floating around, this could become useful. This is not what I've found. Almost all the VRML I've found on the web recently has been VRML2. And all the VRML I want to use has been VRML2. However I've yet to find anything that'll convert a VRML2 file into something I can import into anything. The only one I found is to the povray format but I've not found anything to convert from that. -- Christopher John Purnell | I thought I'd found a reason to live http://www.lost.org.uk/ | Just like before when I was a child --------------------------| Only to find that dreams made of sand What gods do you pray to? | Would just fall apart and slip through my hands |
|
From: Christopher K. S. J. <cs...@qu...> - 2000-08-15 21:23:00
|
Chris Purnell wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2000 at 03:45:22AM -0500, Steve Baker wrote: > > This is not what I've found. > But if Blender has VRML 1.0 export, that's the way to go, because it means there's a free, mature modeller available for plib. (1.0 is also easier to parse and load) -cks |
|
From: Gil C. <g.c...@ca...> - 2000-08-17 22:26:47
|
> > Hence - since there are quite a few VRML-1 models around and LOTS of tools > > support it, then we should go with that. Who knows, we might even get > > an OpenInventor loader out of it 'for free' and with packages like COIN > > floating around, this could become useful. > >This is not what I've found. Almost all the VRML I've found on the web >recently has been VRML2. And all the VRML I want to use has been VRML2. Well, all of the visualisation work I do here at my "real" work uses VRML 97 as the file format - it has a lot more features than VRML1, and lets you do some pretty powerful things with scripting and node prototyping. Have a look at http://www.dem.csiro.au/unrestricted/3dvis/ if you're interested to see some of our models (you'll need a VRML browser like Cosmoplayer or Cortona installed on your system to view them). Unfortunately, VRML97 is much more difficult to write a fully functional browser for, especially if you're trying to support the event model, scripting and audio - hence most geometry importers tend to not do it, and only support VRML1. My plan is to not try to implement the "hard parts" of VRML97 for import into PLIB, but to still allow users to import any valid VRML97 file. The end result will hopefully be a parser which will ultimately return only the geometry nodes to SSG, but will read any VRML 97 file without barfing. >However I've yet to find anything that'll convert a VRML2 file into >something I can import into anything. Can you be a little more specific? What packages do you want to import VRML into and what packages are producing the original VRML? Most of the big "name brand" 3D modelling packages will do pretty good VRML97 import and export - 3D Studio Max is the one we use here, and it reads and writes VRML97 very competently. Rgds, Gil |
|
From: Chris P. <cj...@lo...> - 2000-08-21 20:27:41
|
On Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 08:26:01AM +1000, Gil Carter wrote: > >However I've yet to find anything that'll convert a VRML2 file into > >something I can import into anything. > Can you be a little more specific? What packages do you want to import > VRML into and what packages are producing the original VRML? > Most of the big "name brand" 3D modelling packages will do pretty good > VRML97 import and export - 3D Studio Max is the one we use here, and it > reads and writes VRML97 very competently. The VRML is some stuff that I've downloaded off the web. I'm trying to import it into my software. The model editor I'm using at the moment is AC3D. -- Christopher John Purnell | I thought I'd found a reason to live http://www.lost.org.uk/ | Just like before when I was a child --------------------------| Only to find that dreams made of sand What gods do you pray to? | Would just fall apart and slip through my hands |
|
From: Gil C. <g.c...@ca...> - 2000-08-21 23:51:37
|
At 08:21 PM 8/21/00 +0000, you wrote: >On Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 08:26:01AM +1000, Gil Carter wrote: > > > >However I've yet to find anything that'll convert a VRML2 file into > > >something I can import into anything. > > > Can you be a little more specific? What packages do you want to import > > VRML into and what packages are producing the original VRML? > > > Most of the big "name brand" 3D modelling packages will do pretty good > > VRML97 import and export - 3D Studio Max is the one we use here, and it > > reads and writes VRML97 very competently. > >The VRML is some stuff that I've downloaded off the web. Got any URL's? I'm trying to assemble a collection of models which people would like to use with PLIB so that I can test with them, and it will make my life easier if I can test against what you're looking at. >I'm trying to import it into my software. >The model editor I'm using at the moment is AC3D. I know of AC3D, but I've not used it - what type of VRML import does it support? Does it also do VRML export? If you're interested to give it a try, see if AC3D will load this file: http://www.powerup.com.au/~gcarter/plib/VRML/VRML1/AllNodes.wrl This file contains all of the valid VRML1 nodes, although the end result after loading looks awful - there are no textures or materials assigned, and all of the objects are located at the origin. If AC3D can load this without complaining, it either fully supports VRML1 or it supports a subset and fails silently on unsupported nodes... Rgds, Gil |
|
From: Gil C. <g.c...@ca...> - 2000-08-22 00:57:39
|
At 07:32 PM 8/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >Gil Carter wrote: > > > I know of AC3D, but I've not used it - what type of VRML import does it > > support? Does it also do VRML export? > >It claims VRML 1.0 import and VRML 1.0, VRML 2.0 (and 'VRML 2.0 proto') >export. > >I strongly suspect that the quality of these is minimal...but I confess I >have not worked with them very much. Any chance you could try exporting a couple of TAQFH models out of AC3d in VRML format to give me some more fodder for the parser? > > > If you're interested to give it a try, see if AC3D will load this file: > > > > http://www.powerup.com.au/~gcarter/plib/VRML/VRML1/AllNodes.wrl > >I'll try.... > ><time passes> > >It crashed! > >I'm not suprised. Nor am I - that file is a little nasty in terms of having empty nodes or nodes with default values. If AC3D is expecting valid contents for VRML nodes in its loader, I'm not surprised it had trouble. That test file came from the original VRML1.0 parser/loader produced by SGI back in 1995, and I suspect that it was only really intended to show that parser could recognise all of the nodes. I'll be producing a full set of new VRML1 test files for the parser, so hopefully they should provide a fairer test once they're done. Since these won't really form part of the PLIB distribution but would be useful to have around, where should I put them? Is there a convenient place in the CVS tree for them, or would they be better just on my local web site? Rgds, Gil |
|
From: Steve B. <sjb...@ai...> - 2000-08-23 04:34:04
|
Gil Carter wrote:
> Any chance you could try exporting a couple of TAQFH models out of AC3d in
> VRML format to give me some more fodder for the parser?
(I sent Gil some converted models as requested - but they were pretty
big - so I didn't inflict them on the mailing list).
> I'll be producing a full set of new VRML1 test files for the parser, so
> hopefully they should provide a fairer test once they're done. Since these
> won't really form part of the PLIB distribution but would be useful to have
> around, where should I put them? Is there a convenient place in the CVS
> tree for them, or would they be better just on my local web site?
I guess I could create a place for them on CVS - but perhaps a better
idea would be to use them in the examples area for some kind of small
demo or something. That way they serve dual purpose and aren't such
a waste of bandwidth.
As an alternative, I suppose we could ask SourceForge for another
account for free models. They seem to be giving accounts away to
anyone who asks as far as I can tell.
--
Steve Baker HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>
WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
Projects : http://plib.sourceforge.net
http://tuxaqfh.sourceforge.net
http://tuxkart.sourceforge.net
http://prettypoly.sourceforge.net
|
|
From: Joel U. <joe...@ya...> - 2000-08-23 07:08:02
|
Steve Baker wrote: > > Gil Carter wrote: > > I'll be producing a full set of new VRML1 test files for the parser, so > > hopefully they should provide a fairer test once they're done. Since these > > won't really form part of the PLIB distribution but would be useful to have > > around, where should I put them? Is there a convenient place in the CVS > > tree for them, or would they be better just on my local web site? > > I guess I could create a place for them on CVS - but perhaps a better > idea would be to use them in the examples area for some kind of small > demo or something. That way they serve dual purpose and aren't such > a waste of bandwidth. > > As an alternative, I suppose we could ask SourceForge for another > account for free models. They seem to be giving accounts away to > anyone who asks as far as I can tell. This would be great - I was looking for free 3D models at 3dcafe, but they had a licence agreement, that I thought was a little restrictive (non-commercial use stuff). It would be good to have a repository of completely free models, it would be a good place to put test models for prettypoly too. I could certainly setup the site if no one has time for it. (feature requests please...) Bye - Joel. |
|
From: Gil C. <g.c...@ca...> - 2000-08-23 07:23:37
|
At 03:30 PM 8/23/00 +0800, you wrote: > > As an alternative, I suppose we could ask SourceForge for another > > account for free models. They seem to be giving accounts away to > > anyone who asks as far as I can tell. > >This would be great - I was looking for free 3D models at 3dcafe, but >they had a licence agreement, that I thought was a little restrictive >(non-commercial use stuff). It would be good to have a repository of >completely free models, it would be a good place to put test models for >prettypoly too. I don't want to throw cold water on this idea, but there's gotta be enough sites hosting 3D models already - a google search on "free 3d models" returns 157,000 pages! Do we plan on just adding one more URL to that crowd, or are we going to be PLIB/PPE specific? >I could certainly setup the site if no one has time for it. (feature >requests please...) Well, my specific need at the moment is a place to store a hundred-odd little VRML files to test my loader. These will be unnecessary to anybody else who just wants to use the loader, but they might be of academic interest for people who want to use PLIB for VRML-specific things. Gil |
|
From: Wolfram K. <w_...@rz...> - 2000-08-23 09:39:35
|
Joel wrote: > It would be good to have a repository of >completely free models, it would be a good place to put test models for >prettypoly too. What would be the point? Why not just have links to the places where you got the models from? As Gil wrote, there are tons of places with 3D objects. I think more free objects would be good, but more free object sites would not. I think we should ship one model with PPE so that users can test it.For plib we should have one test-object - at least for each format that there is no writer for. I really hope that Steve "unlocks" the PPE code soon, then we can work on that. >Bye - Joel. Bye bye, Wolfram Kuss. |
|
From: Joel U. <joe...@ya...> - 2000-08-23 16:46:41
|
Wolfram Kuss wrote: > > Joel wrote: > > > It would be good to have a repository of > >completely free models, it would be a good place to put test models for > >prettypoly too. > > What would be the point? > Why not just have links to the places where you got the models from? > As Gil wrote, there are tons of places with 3D objects. I think more > free objects would be good, but more free object sites would not. Yes, I guess we could list some good ones on the PPE web page. I only looked around briefly and didn't find many sites. > I think we should ship one model with PPE so that users can test > it.For plib we should have one test-object - at least for each format > that there is no writer for. Yep. Bye - Joel. |
|
From: Chris P. <cj...@lo...> - 2000-08-22 21:11:27
|
On Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 09:50:39AM +1000, Gil Carter wrote: > Got any URL's? I'm trying to assemble a collection of models which people > would like to use with PLIB so that I can test with them, and it will make > my life easier if I can test against what you're looking at. The only URL I have to hand is that of a dopefish model at http://www.dopefish.com/stuff/dopefish2.wrl -- Christopher John Purnell | I thought I'd found a reason to live http://www.lost.org.uk/ | Just like before when I was a child --------------------------| Only to find that dreams made of sand What gods do you pray to? | Would just fall apart and slip through my hands |
|
From: Gil C. <g.c...@ca...> - 2000-08-23 01:00:09
|
At 09:05 PM 8/22/00 +0000, you wrote: >On Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 09:50:39AM +1000, Gil Carter wrote: > > > Got any URL's? I'm trying to assemble a collection of models which people > > would like to use with PLIB so that I can test with them, and it will make > > my life easier if I can test against what you're looking at. > >The only URL I have to hand is that of a dopefish model at >http://www.dopefish.com/stuff/dopefish2.wrl I assume you realise that this is a VRML2 model? My importer is targeted at VRML1 initially, and unfortunately, the file formats are completely different. End result is that you initially won't be able to read this model into PLIB with my importer. However, the importer is being designed from the start to recognise the different flavours of VRML - VRML 1, VRML2/VRML97 and gzipped VRML2/VRML97. Due to some unfortunate de facto standards, all of these different file formats can have the same .wrl extension , so the importer has to determine which variety of VRML it is first and then hand the file off to the appropriate module. Once VRML1 import/export is robust, I'll regroup and work on VRML2. In the mean time, the importer will simply return an error code if you try to load a non-VRML1 file, but it will be an error code which suggests that this particular flavour of VRML is not supported yet... Gil |
|
From: Steve B. <sjb...@ai...> - 2000-08-22 00:27:24
|
Gil Carter wrote: > I know of AC3D, but I've not used it - what type of VRML import does it > support? Does it also do VRML export? It claims VRML 1.0 import and VRML 1.0, VRML 2.0 (and 'VRML 2.0 proto') export. I strongly suspect that the quality of these is minimal...but I confess I have not worked with them very much. > If you're interested to give it a try, see if AC3D will load this file: > > http://www.powerup.com.au/~gcarter/plib/VRML/VRML1/AllNodes.wrl I'll try.... <time passes> It crashed! I'm not suprised. > If AC3D can load this > without complaining, it either fully supports VRML1 or it supports a subset > and fails silently on unsupported nodes... Hmmm - well - it didn't actually *complain*. Does core dumping count as "failing silently" ? :-) -- Steve Baker HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...> WorkEmail: <sj...@li...> HomePage : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1 Projects : http://plib.sourceforge.net http://tuxaqfh.sourceforge.net http://tuxkart.sourceforge.net http://prettypoly.sourceforge.net |
|
From: Steve B. <sjb...@ai...> - 2000-08-23 22:50:39
|
Joel Utting wrote:
>
> Steve Baker wrote:
> >
> > Gil Carter wrote:
> > > I'll be producing a full set of new VRML1 test files for the parser, so
> > > hopefully they should provide a fairer test once they're done. Since these
> > > won't really form part of the PLIB distribution but would be useful to have
> > > around, where should I put them? Is there a convenient place in the CVS
> > > tree for them, or would they be better just on my local web site?
> >
> > I guess I could create a place for them on CVS - but perhaps a better
> > idea would be to use them in the examples area for some kind of small
> > demo or something. That way they serve dual purpose and aren't such
> > a waste of bandwidth.
> >
> > As an alternative, I suppose we could ask SourceForge for another
> > account for free models. They seem to be giving accounts away to
> > anyone who asks as far as I can tell.
>
> This would be great - I was looking for free 3D models at 3dcafe, but
> they had a licence agreement, that I thought was a little restrictive
> (non-commercial use stuff). It would be good to have a repository of
> completely free models, it would be a good place to put test models for
> prettypoly too.
>
> I could certainly setup the site if no one has time for it. (feature
> requests please...)
You are welcome to take all the TuxAQFH and TuxKart models and drop
them into an OpenSourced repository. Although both TuxKart and AQFH
are GPL'ed, all the models are mine - so I hereby grant you the right
to re-license them under whatever license you see fit providing it
falls under SourceForge's definition of "OpenSource".
--
Steve Baker HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>
WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
Projects : http://plib.sourceforge.net
http://tuxaqfh.sourceforge.net
http://tuxkart.sourceforge.net
http://prettypoly.sourceforge.net
|
×
Want the latest updates on software, tech news, and AI?
Get latest updates about software, tech news, and AI from SourceForge directly in your inbox once a month.
Thanks for helping keep SourceForge clean.
X