Thread: [Plib-devel] State of the art?

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plib-devel

[Plib-devel] State of the art?

From: Juhana S. <ko...@ni...> - 2006-10-17 18:04:57

Hello. When I first time did hear about plib, it sounded better
than anything. It was even used in game consoles.

What is the status of plib now? Outdated?

Juhana
-- 
  http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-graphics-dev
  for developers of open source graphics software

Re: [Plib-devel] State of the art?

From: steve <sjb...@ai...> - 2006-10-17 21:09:36

Juhana Sadeharju wrote:
> Hello. When I first time did hear about plib, it sounded better
> than anything. It was even used in game consoles.
> 
> What is the status of plib now? Outdated?

Yes - it's in quite severe need of major rework in the light
of shaders, game physics, etc.

I've been thinking about doing a 'PLIB-2.0' over Xmas (when I might
have some time) - but the ideas for it are still stirring around
in my head.

There are really five major things:

1) Dump the audio library - build something new on top of OpenAL.

2) Merge the GUI library into the scene graph API.

3) Major surgery on the scene graph to support shaders, arbitary
    per-vertex data, FBO's, VBO's, etc.  Dump all of the old-style
    OpenGL state and go for a 100% shader-based solution.

4) Support scripting inside the scene graph so that nodes can be
    customised.

5) Support 3D audio and rigid body physics within the scene graph.

However, this would not be an evolutionary change - there would be
no forwards, backwards or sideways compatibility.

Re: [Plib-devel] State of the art?

From: Wolfram K. <w_...@rz...> - 2006-10-17 21:57:44

>Hello. When I first time did hear about plib, it sounded better
>than anything. It was even used in game consoles.
>
>What is the status of plib now? Outdated?

This depends on what you want to do.

If for example you want to create a stunnign looking game with
shaders, multiple UVs per vertex etc, PLIB is behind the curve.

If for example you want to create a model converter or some tool/app
that reads a lot of formats, I still do not know of any better free
library.

Bye bye,
Wolfram.

Re: [Plib-devel] State of the art?

From: Tinoshi K. <ti...@li...> - 2006-10-18 00:43:32

A very quick question:

Do you think that PLIB will ever support (within the scenegraph) shadows (at 
least planar) reflection or some other 'simple' stencil buffer related 
stuff???
It would be nice to set some traversing mask such as SSG_CAST_SHADOW or 
SSG_REFLECT for every node.... It is something I'd like to work on by my 
own, but I don't know if you think it is something PLIB really needs... Does 
it
worth the effort?

Thanks,
Giorgio

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wolfram Kuss" <w_...@rz...>
To: "PLIB Developers" <pli...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Plib-devel] State of the art?


> >Hello. When I first time did hear about plib, it sounded better
>>than anything. It was even used in game consoles.
>>
>>What is the status of plib now? Outdated?
>
> This depends on what you want to do.
>
> If for example you want to create a stunnign looking game with
> shaders, multiple UVs per vertex etc, PLIB is behind the curve.
>
> If for example you want to create a model converter or some tool/app
> that reads a lot of formats, I still do not know of any better free
> library.
>
> Bye bye,
> Wolfram.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job 
> easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> plib-devel mailing list
> pli...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plib-devel

Re: [Plib-devel] State of the art?

From: steve <sjb...@ai...> - 2006-10-18 04:45:24

Tinoshi Kitazawa wrote:
> A very quick question:
> 
> Do you think that PLIB will ever support (within the scenegraph) shadows (at 
> least planar) reflection or some other 'simple' stencil buffer related 
> stuff???

Well, it certainly doesn't handle that stuff directly right now.

I think that a modern scene graph should make those kinds of things
possible by providing the state and multipass hooks to make them 
possible - but there are just too many shadow and reflection algorithms
out there (not one of which is both efficient and perfect) - and
implementing them all would be painful and ugly.

So I would hope to support FBO's and shaders and multipass - and leave 
the actual assembling of shadows and reflections to the developer.

> It would be nice to set some traversing mask such as SSG_CAST_SHADOW or 
> SSG_REFLECT for every node.... It is something I'd like to work on by my 
> own, but I don't know if you think it is something PLIB really needs... Does 
> it worth the effort?

It's not worth the effort within the present structure - because the 
present structure is in dire need of a near-total rewrite.

But I think it naive to expect to be able to just turn on a flag and
get shadows for all classes of object with good performance.

[Plib-devel] R: State of the art?

From: Paolo L. <p.l...@ci...> - 2006-10-18 07:25:42

> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: pli...@li...=20
> [mailto:pli...@li...] Per conto=20
> di Tinoshi Kitazawa
> Inviato: mercoled=EC 18 ottobre 2006 2.43
> A: PLIB Developers
> Oggetto: Re: [Plib-devel] State of the art?
>=20
>=20
> A very quick question:
>=20
> Do you think that PLIB will ever support (within the=20
> scenegraph) shadows (at=20
> least planar) reflection or some other 'simple' stencil=20
> buffer related=20
> stuff???

If shadow mapping is enough for you I can give you a class for this =
working
in SSG, so that you simply do

	if ( shadowmap )
		shadow->cullAndDraw ( scene ) ;
	else
		ssgCullAndDraw ( scene ) ;

It sets leaf pre- and post-draw callbacks, uses register combiners on NV =
and
texenv on ATI and others, and P-buffers for larger-than screen depth =
maps
(usually 1024 or 2048 ^2). It is derived from Nvidia code.

Anyone interested in it just e-mail me at P.Leoncini -a-t- cira.it.

> It would be nice to set some traversing mask such as=20
> SSG_CAST_SHADOW or=20
> SSG_REFLECT for every node.... It is something I'd like to=20
> work on by my=20
> own, but I don't know if you think it is something PLIB=20
> really needs... Does=20
> it
> worth the effort?
>=20
> Thanks,
> Giorgio

Greetings -

Paolo


> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Wolfram Kuss" <w_...@rz...>
> To: "PLIB Developers" <pli...@li...>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Plib-devel] State of the art?
>=20
>=20
> > >Hello. When I first time did hear about plib, it sounded better
> >>than anything. It was even used in game consoles.
> >>
> >>What is the status of plib now? Outdated?
> >
> > This depends on what you want to do.
> >
> > If for example you want to create a stunnign looking game with=20
> > shaders, multiple UVs per vertex etc, PLIB is behind the curve.
> >
> > If for example you want to create a model converter or some=20
> tool/app=20
> > that reads a lot of formats, I still do not know of any better free=20
> > library.
> >
> > Bye bye,
> > Wolfram.
> >
> >
> >=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web=20
> services, security?
> > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to=20
> make your job=20
> > easier
> > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on=20
> Apache Geronimo
> >=20
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&
dat=3D121642
> _______________________________________________
> plib-devel mailing list
> pli...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plib-devel=20


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=

Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, =
security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job
easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache
Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&dat=3D=
121642
_______________________________________________
plib-devel mailing list
pli...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plib-devel

Re: [Plib-devel] R: State of the art?

From: Tinoshi K. <ti...@li...> - 2006-10-18 15:38:24

Thanks for all the answers!

Giorgio!


----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Paolo Leoncini" <p.l...@ci...>
To: "'PLIB Developers'" <pli...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:25 AM
Subject: [Plib-devel] R: State of the art?


> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: pli...@li...
> [mailto:pli...@li...] Per conto
> di Tinoshi Kitazawa
> Inviato: mercoled=EC 18 ottobre 2006 2.43
> A: PLIB Developers
> Oggetto: Re: [Plib-devel] State of the art?
>
>
> A very quick question:
>
> Do you think that PLIB will ever support (within the
> scenegraph) shadows (at
> least planar) reflection or some other 'simple' stencil
> buffer related
> stuff???

If shadow mapping is enough for you I can give you a class for this worki=
ng
in SSG, so that you simply do

if ( shadowmap )
shadow->cullAndDraw ( scene ) ;
else
ssgCullAndDraw ( scene ) ;

It sets leaf pre- and post-draw callbacks, uses register combiners on NV =
and
texenv on ATI and others, and P-buffers for larger-than screen depth maps
(usually 1024 or 2048 ^2). It is derived from Nvidia code.

Anyone interested in it just e-mail me at P.Leoncini -a-t- cira.it.

> It would be nice to set some traversing mask such as
> SSG_CAST_SHADOW or
> SSG_REFLECT for every node.... It is something I'd like to
> work on by my
> own, but I don't know if you think it is something PLIB
> really needs... Does
> it
> worth the effort?
>
> Thanks,
> Giorgio

Greetings -

Paolo


> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Wolfram Kuss" <w_...@rz...>
> To: "PLIB Developers" <pli...@li...>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Plib-devel] State of the art?
>
>
> > >Hello. When I first time did hear about plib, it sounded better
> >>than anything. It was even used in game consoles.
> >>
> >>What is the status of plib now? Outdated?
> >
> > This depends on what you want to do.
> >
> > If for example you want to create a stunnign looking game with
> > shaders, multiple UVs per vertex etc, PLIB is behind the curve.
> >
> > If for example you want to create a model converter or some
> tool/app
> > that reads a lot of formats, I still do not know of any better free
> > library.
> >
> > Bye bye,
> > Wolfram.
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web
> services, security?
> > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to
> make your job
> > easier
> > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on
> Apache Geronimo
> >
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&
dat=3D121642
> _______________________________________________
> plib-devel mailing list
> pli...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plib-devel


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job
easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache
Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&dat=3D=
121642
_______________________________________________
plib-devel mailing list
pli...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plib-devel


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job=20
easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronim=
o
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&dat=3D=
121642
_______________________________________________
plib-devel mailing list
pli...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plib-devel=20