plastic-devs Mailing List for PLASTIC

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Hi all,
I've re-released xmdv-vo
http://plastic.sourceforge.net/tupperware/xmdv/

I think it's primarily of interest as a bit of demoware rather than a  
serious app (unless you really really need a parallel coords viewer).

Sadly it uses some ancient native code for the OpenGL stuff, so it  
only works on Windows and some flavours of Linux.

John

I've updated the website with some FAQs about PLASTIC and SAMP, and  
links to the presentations in Beijing that had something to do with  
PLASTIC.

http://plastic.sourceforge.net/index.html

John

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Another component presents objects and methods that make it easier to
work with DOM elements. To use the component in a web page, you open the
page in Sun Java Studio Creator's Visual Designer.
One of the widgets available in the Dojo toolkit is a combobox widget.
In fact, the UI components in the JavaServer Faces component libraries
are widgets, and they include widgets that are enabled for Ajax.
Note that the autocompletion actions are performed asynchronously.
Take a break and hear what Alvina has to say about the after dark party.
Most popular browsers, including Mozilla browsers and Internet Explorer,
do. Map an Event to a JavaScript Function  In the HTML page, you first
construct a text field and then map the entries in the text field to a
JavaScript function that handles the entries.
The databases are also a popular choice in the embedded market. You can
find additional learning resources at the AJAX Developer Resource
Center.
The call passes the complete-field in the request.
Both provide JavaScript libraries that support Ajax as well as other
functions that can be plugged into a web application. Next week, drop by
the SDN Channel to learn about SDN Share, a new pilot program for the
Sun developer community. The callback function processes the response
and updates an internal representation of the page based on the new
data. The framework provides a library of wrapped widgets from various
JavaScript libraries such as the Dojo toolkit and script. To dive even
deeper, be sure to attend OpenSolaris Day at CommunityOne next month.
For example, if the JavaScript code is in a file named autocomplete.
To get started with Solaris Express, Developer Edition, download the
bundle or request a free DVD Kit. If you agree with the processing of
your personal information, please complete and submit the form. If an
Ajax-enabled component is available through an IDE, you can incorporate
it into a page by dragging it from the IDE's palette and dropping it on
the page.
- feature story by Leslie T.
Please use one that does such as Mozilla or Firefox.
combobox, the combobox widget distributed with jMaki.
Writing the JavaScript Code for Autocompletion  Imagine that no
autocompletion component or autocompletion widget exists. For further
information see the article  "New Technologies for Ajax and Web
Application Development: Project Phobos".
To include a widget from a JavaScript library in a web page, you need to
include some JavaScript code in the page.
To learn more about GlassFish, check out the news site, the GlassFish
wiki and read about how GlassFish is being used today.
Let's assume that an XML document is returned in this example. The
application displays a suggested list of cities and fills in the city,
state, and zip code without needing to refresh the page. You include a
jMaki widget in a web page in the same way as you include a JSP custom
tag or JavaServer Faces component. If an Ajax-enabled component is
available in an IDE, you can drag and drop the component from the IDE's
palette onto the page.
The JavaScript code is designed to interact with a servlet on the server
to handle autocompletion. As this article mentioned earlier, Ajax
enables the high responsiveness of many web applications.
For example, a jMaki widget wrapped in a JavaServer Faces component can
be customized to trigger event handlers and validate user entries. One
of the widgets distributed with jMaki is a combobox widget. For example,
a jMaki widget wrapped in a JavaServer Faces component can be customized
to trigger event handlers and validate user entries.

Dear All,
This is to announce a more robust version of the plasticized web page  
I first demoed back in September.
The page uses an invisible signed applet to handle the Plastic  
communication - I'd be interested in discussions with anyone who has  
a better way of doing it (and if mods are needed to the Plastic spec,  
now is definitely the time to raise them).

First things first, here's a demo  page using the applet:

http://plastic.sourceforge.net/tupperware/PlasticApplet/ShowApplet.html

Things to know:
* The applet must be signed - I've provided a version that's signed  
by me, and one you can sign yourself is available on request
* The demo page uses Javascript to interact with the applet - you'll  
need to tailor this to your own web page
* To keep it small, and relatively simple, the applet only supports  
sending and receiving messages to load VOTables and FITS images -  
I'll add spectra if there's demand.  Also, it doesn't have the "save  
To Myspace" functionality.  Again, let me know if you need that.
* I'll also produce a fuller version that allows arbitrary Plastic  
messages if there's demand
* The applet weighs in at about 150k, but by placing the applet at  
the bottom of your web page it doesn't cause too much of a lag on  
loading, and with your server set up to send the correct headers it  
should get cached client side.
* I haven't included code in the JavaScript to fall back gracefully  
if Java isn't installed - you'd need to do this in a production  
environment

The applet is available for download from:

http://plastic.sourceforge.net/tupperware/PlasticApplet/ 
plasticapplet.jar

Get in touch if you want the unsigned version or the source code.

I've tested it on:
OSX, Firefox  2.003, Java 5
OSX, Safari, Java 5
Win XP, IE7, Java 6
Win XP, Firefox, Java 6
Win XP, Firefox , Java 1.4.2
Win XP, IE7, Java 1.4.2
Win XP, Opera, Java 1.4.2
Win XP, Mozilla 5, Java 1.4.2
Win 98, IE6, Java 1.4.2

I'd appreciate any feedback - especially if you have a combo where it  
doesn't work.

John
PS - Thanks to Igor for some tips I borrowed from his applet on  
http://alcor.sao.ru/php/search/

Hot-wiring the Transient Universe: A Joint VOEvent & HTN Workshop
June 4-7 2007, University of Arizona, Tucson
Final Call for Registration (Registration closes on the 4th May 2007)

Hi all,
Just in case you're not on the applications IVOA list, we're looking  
at some changes we'd like to make to PLASTIC as it forms the basis  
for a new IVOA standard, provisionally entitled SAMP (Simple  
Application Messaging Protocol).  I've summarized the changes here:

http://www.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/PlasticOnePointOh

Please do review them (there's only about 10 of them), and vote on  
them, especially if you're developing against PLASTIC.

Let me know if you need clarification of any of the changes.  The  
main thing is that I'm reasonably confident that we can make them  
without breaking your applications - we can run both the old and the  
new protocols in parallel (at least for a while).

John

Begin forwarded message:

> From: John Taylor <jon...@gm...>
> Date: 25 April 2007 16:31:14 BDT
> To: "Gretchen Greene" <gr...@st...>
> Cc: "'Mike Fitzpatrick'" <fi...@tu...>, <ap...@iv...>
> Subject: Re: Apps Messaging -- A New Approach
>
> Hi Mike & Gretchen,
> Apologies for not responding to this sooner.  Mike: I think your  
> approach offers a good way forward, and like Gretchen I favour an  
> emphasis on making this available pretty quickly so we can get  
> feedback for any future mods or more general system.
>
> I believe Mark's timetable:
> http://www.ivoa.net/forum/apps/0701/0156.htm
> is achievable if we keep focussed on the simple stuff.
>
> Over the last year a number of changes have been suggested for  
> PLASTIC, and the discussions on this list have thrown up a few  
> more.  Rising to Mike's challenge, I've collected them on this wiki  
> page:
>
> http://www.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/PlasticOnePointOh
>
> All of these changes can be made while retaining backwards  
> compatibility with current PLASTIC apps, at least in the short  
> term.  If I've missed something important, please let me know.    
> Some  of the changes are lacking a sponsor: if you want to adopt  
> one then go ahead, or I'll delete it if it gets no support.  I've  
> taken the liberty of attributing some of the changes to Mark and  
> Mike - feel free to remove your name if I've got it wrong.
>
> So, cast your votes for the changes you want to see, and those you  
> don't.  Please do take part - it's important we get your views,  
> *particularly* from people who intend to develop applications  
> against this protocol.
>
> Once we've got a list of changes to focus on, we can thrash out the  
> details.
>
> John
>
>
> On 19 Apr 2007, at 20:16, Gretchen Greene wrote:
>
>> 	This sounds like a great idea to use PLASTIC with the identified
>> modifications as a first specification.  It is really important to  
>> have
>> something available for folks to prototype and work implementation  
>> to in
>> order to provide input to an extended messenging package.
>>
>> Thanks!  -Gretchen
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: own...@es... [mailto:own...@es...] On Behalf Of  
>> Mike
>> Fitzpatrick
>> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:43 AM
>> To: ap...@iv...
>> Subject: Apps Messaging -- A New Approach
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 	We seem to have reached a stalemate, or at least an unproductive
>> state, in the discussions and so it may be time to try a different  
>> approach.
>>
>> 	My sense is that we would all be happy with an intial version of the
>> spec that at least retains (and ideally improves) the current PLASTIC
>> capability for current high-level tools to interoperate, but also  
>> recognizes
>> that there are valid use cases that might not be handled in the first
>> version and will be fixed later (perhaps involving significant  
>> changes).
>> We've so far been working at this from the perspective of writing  
>> a spec
>> from scratch with the idea of incorporating PLASTIC abilities into  
>> the new
>> framework;  what I'd like to suggest is that we explore the  
>> "cleaned-up
>> Plastic" angle to see if we can make more headway by trying
>> to turn PLASTIC into a v1.0 spec we can all live with.	Note what I'm
>> suggesting is still more than just a PLASTIC v1.1, but we use a  
>> different
>> starting point in the discussion (and put the burden on the  
>> PLASTIC folks to
>> propose a roadmap that everyone else can buy into instead of  
>> asking them to
>> buy into a new idea).
>>
>> 	John had earlier posted (in the 'Apps Messaging - Twin track?'
>> thread) his list of proposed changes but there were no replies to  
>> indicate
>> how much opposition these would meet.  These included some of the  
>> concepts
>> we've already discussed such as a basic message content model  
>> through use of
>> 'mtypes' rather than ivorns and asynchronous delivery -- do the  
>> PLASTIC
>> developers see these things as fundamental obstacles to reaching some
>> agreement?
>>
>> 	In the interest of neutrality, my own distaste for the 'VOOM' name
>> (sorry Rob), and borrowing from the wisdom of others, let's call
>> this the Simple Application Messaging Protocol (SAMP).	It may in fact
>> be a reworked PLASTIC but the 'Simple' part of the name may help  
>> keep us
>> focused and remind us that a more complete protocol will follow.  
>> Keeping in
>> mind our earlier limits that this be a single user/desktop system,
>> separating message from transport etc, and recognizing that known
>> limitations will need to be formally addressed as we move through  
>> the stds
>> process anyway, I'd like to continue this thread by expanding and  
>> discussing
>> John's list of changes from the PLASTIC perspective.
>>
>> 	To start, I'll ask whether we can reach some form of basic agreement
>> about what's already been discussed, namely:
>>
>>     - Does the use of UCD-like 'mtype' offer enough of a basic  
>> content
>>       model that it can be expanded later?  The mappings to  
>> plastic ivorns
>>       are trivial and I think can be used in the current plastic apps
>> easily,
>>       their use in "advertising capability" and matching apps  
>> doesn't need
>>       to be part of the first spec.
>>     - Have we specified all the needed message attributes?  Too  
>> many? Not
>>       enough?  Is this needed at all?
>>     - I think it was Pat Dowler that came up with a Hub connection  
>> scheme
>>       that seemed agreeable, is that still true if we're modifying  
>> the
>>       PLASTIC hub?
>>     - Can we agree on the workings of a broadcast vs directed  
>> message?
>>
>> 	This isn't quite the twin track approach John mentioned, but
>> perhaps we can get the Beijing with something real to discuss.	 
>> Those of
>> us interested in the generalities will be looking for the stubs in  
>> the spec
>> we can use for later development, and I'm sure will be no less  
>> vocal in
>> pointing out the important ones seen as missing.
>>
>> 	So, let the fun begin.....
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>>
>>
>

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>
> Hi Michael,
> Thanks for this post.  We're currently thrashing out an IVOA- 
> mandated successor to PLASTIC, so your email is particularly timely.
>
>
> On 13 Apr 2007, at 21:25, Michael Halle wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm experimenting with using PLASTIC with the medical imaging  
>> software
>> we're using to visualize astronomy data.  Since we're doing some
>> retrofitting into an existing app, I've written client code from  
>> scratch
>> to get a feel for the protocol.
>>
>> I've hit a bug that I thought you might have some thoughts about.
>>
>> Here's how I get to the problem:
>>
>> 1. client connects to hub and registers an XMLRPC callback.
>> 2. client listens for messages
>> 3. developer terminates client
>> 4. client doesn't clean up after itself by unregistering
>>
>> 5. develop hacks code and reruns client, repeating 1 and 2.
>> 6. other client sends message to hub
>> 7. first client gets two messages
>> 8. process repeats, and client receives more and more messages
>>
>
> I've seen this problem myself.  Once way to avoid it is to use a  
> different callback each time the client registers, but it's hardly  
> satisfactory.
>
>> The problem arises because there's currently no way to know  
>> immediately
>> that a client has died using XMLRPC:  the callback is  
>> connectionless, so
>> there's no notification of client death for the hub.
>>
>> However, when a client reregisters on the same port it's been run on
>> previously, the hub thinks it's a totally different client.  When a
>> message comes in to the hub, it gets dispatches to these two  
>> "different"
>> clients, which is in fact just one client.  The more "zombie"
>> registrations exist, the more spurious messages get sent to the  
>> single
>> living client.
>>
>> There's no opportunity to clean up the mess, since there really is a
>> client out there listening on the port (ie, the port's not dead).
>>
>> I've thought of a couple ways to fix this problem.  The first is,  
>> "dear
>> developer, please unregister your client like we told you."  Well,
>> clients crash, and experience similar problems, without being able to
>> clean up, so a more robust solution might be helpful.
>
> Agreed.
>
>>
>> A quick way to fix the problem is to say there can be only one client
>> running on one port on a host/interface.  If the XMLRPC URL for two
>> clients are identical, the clients must be identical.  If a client  
>> tries
>> to register itself with an identical callback, it should replace the
>> previous client (this could be controlled by a flag).
>
> I think this is a good stop-gap solution, and unless anyone on the  
> list objects I'll implement it.  I don't think there's anything in  
> the spec that specifically prohibits it.  However, you might have a  
> situation where you do want this behaviour...see below.
>
>
>>
>> In a more elaborate solution, one could also add a "are you this ID?"
>> message, which the hub could send periodically to clean up its  
>> callback
>> list.  The client would return a boolean depending on whether its  
>> client
>> ID matches the one passed to it by the hub.  This solution might be
>> useful, but by itself it doesn't solve the problem completely.
>
> How about this: we change the spec so that the receiving  
> application gets the recipientId, as well as the senderId.  That  
> way it can check if it is the intended recipient, and discard any  
> erroneous messages.  Well-behaved applications could even send the  
> hub a NOT_KNOWN_AT_THIS_ADDRESS message so that the hub can clean  
> up.  Having the client explicitly tell the hub that it _isn't_  
> "FOO" rather than confirming that it _is_ "BAR" removes the problem  
> that the hub might incorrectly unregister an application that's  
> just a bit tardy replying.
> On the other hand, perhaps that's the sort of behaviour that we  
> want: applications have to periodically respond to pings in a  
> timely manner if they want to continue to receive messages.  Anyone  
> else got an opinion on this?
>
> The reason I suggest that you might want an application to register  
> several times at the same address is that you might want to create  
> some kind of gateway application that acted as a proxy for several  
> applications.
>
>>
>> One a partially related note, it seems that no-callback scripts  
>> are the
>>   likely offenders for clients that don't clean up after  
>> themselves and
>> unregister.  Seems like an anonymous client id would be handy in this
>> kind of situation.  Even better, you could have an ID with a set  
>> prefix
>> that could be computed client-side and never and the application  
>> name at
>> the end in a known format.  That way, a script client could make  
>> calls
>> to the hub without registering, but a responding client could  
>> still find
>> out the identity of the caller.
>
> I agree it is pretty cumbersome to do all the registration/ 
> unregistration from a scripting environment when you just want to  
> fire off a quick message.  However, one of the issues we're  
> wrestling with in the new protocol is that we want to improve  
> security a little bit: make it harder for apps that aren't running  
> under the same UID to send messages, and make it harder for apps to  
> spoof one another.  So, if we can come up with a way to make it  
> easier for "anonymous" apps to use the system while being  
> consistent with our security requirements then that would be  
> great.  I'll have a think and get back to you - if you've got any  
> ideas then let us know.  Our current thinking for the new spec is  
> here:
>
> http://www.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ 
> ApplicationsMessagingHighLevelProtocol
>
>>
>> Anyway, thanks for any insights you may have on these issues, and  
>> thanks
>> for your code!
>
> Well, thanks for your feedback - as I say, it couldn't be better  
> timed.
>
> John
>

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