pipmak-devel Mailing List for Pipmak Game Engine (Page 8)

SourceForge Headquarters 225 Broadway Suite 1600 San Diego, CA 92101 +1 (858) 422-6466

Hi,

VmlAGRA for LESS http://www.nikiontunhedunsapo.com

=20
Youre right. It got to me-and I dont know why . . .
angles and forms resembling nothing I had ever seen before.

Urs Holzer wrote:
>> I am considering switching the list to subscriber-only posting.
> 
> Does this work by checking the from-header?

Yes (I suppose).

> Does this mean that posting through Gmane does work as long as I'm
> subscribed by the mailinglist at sourceforge?

Yes. (I know that because it's what I do for most of the mailing lists I
read.)

  -Christian

Hi

Christian Walther wrote:
> Spam is getting worse on this list. To stop this, I am considering
> switching the list to subscriber-only posting. Are there any
> objections against this?
> 
> It would mean that if you're not subscribed and send e-mail to
> <pip...@li...>, your post will be held for
> moderation and may only appear on the list a few days later when I
> have had time to review it. For subscribers, posting will continue to
> work as it always did.
> 
> If you're reading the list through Gmane or on the web and don't want
> to receive its posts by e-mail, note that you can subscribe and turn
> off e-mail delivery in your subscription options
> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/options/pipmak-devel>.

Does this work by checking the from-header? Does this mean that posting
through Gmane does work as long as I'm subscribed by the mailinglist at
sourceforge?

Spam is getting worse on this list. To stop this, I am considering 
switching the list to subscriber-only posting. Are there any objections 
against this?

It would mean that if you're not subscribed and send e-mail to 
<pip...@li...>, your post will be held for 
moderation and may only appear on the list a few days later when I have 
had time to review it. For subscribers, posting will continue to work as 
it always did.

If you're reading the list through Gmane or on the web and don't want to 
receive its posts by e-mail, note that you can subscribe and turn off 
e-mail delivery in your subscription options 
<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/options/pipmak-devel>.

  -Christian

<d1v align="left"><b><font $1ze="5"> Want the degree but can’t f1nd the time?</font></b><BR>
  <BR>
  WHAT A GRE@T IDEA!<BR>
  We provide <acr></acr>a concept that will allow anyone with sufficient work experience 
  to obtain a fully verifiable <acg></acg>University Degree.<BR>
  Bachelors, Masters or even a Doctorate.<BR>
  Think of it, <acy></acy>within four <acn></acn>to six weeks, you <acf></acf>too could be a college graduate.<BR>
  Many people share the <ach></ach>same frustration, <acs></acs>they are all doing the work of the person 
  that has the <acs></acs>degree and the <aco></aco>person that has the degree is getting all the <acp></acp>money.<BR>
  Don’t you <acr></acr>think that it is time you <acb></acb>were paid fair <acd></acd>compensation for the level 
  of work you are <acn></acn>already <act></act>doing?<BR>
  This is your chance to finally make the right move and receive your due benefits.<BR>
  If you are like most <aci></aci>people, you are more than qualified with your experience, 
  but are lacking that <acv></acv>prestigious piece of paper known as a diploma that is often 
  <acb></acb>the 
passport to success.<BR>
  <acf></acf><b>CALL US TODAY <acg></acg>AND GIVE YOUR WORK<BR>
  EXPERIENCE THE CHANCE TO <acs></acs>EARN YOU<BR>
  <acb></acb>THE HIGHER COMPENSATION YOU DESERVE!</b><BR>
  <font color="#FF0033" size="5">CALL NOW:</font><font color="#FF0033" size="7"><BR>
  <b>1-213-596-5768</b></font><BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <act></act><BR>
 <ack></ack> <BR>
  <act></act><BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
 <acv></acv> <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>z5dN4MJZYwheL
  <BR>
  <aco></aco><BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <acx></acx><BR>
  <BR>
  <acn></acn><BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
 <acm></acm> <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
 <acz></acz> <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <aca></aca><BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
 <ach></ach> <acb></acb><BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
 <acs></acs> <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>XIptFZ0DKlQaR
  <BR>
  <ach></ach><BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>CZuP3BwwPZXcp
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>8OUU0kMNZQcT4
  <ach></ach><BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>
  <BR>

The universe has been understood as a mechanism (materialistic mechanism) or <acd></acd>as an organism (hylozoism, vitalism). Why not use acts of consciousness and groups as models of the whole? It is not necessary to reduce more complex systems to less <ace></ace>complex ones, even though the "inverse <acx></acx>reduction" of the simple to the complex suffers from our lack of knowledge about collectivities and persons. Still, G.W.F. Leibniz looked upon the whole of reality as a set of <acw></acw>"monads," more or less <acf></acf>clearly conscious individual entities. A.N. Whitehead sees the universe as constituted by a set of occurrences, all having physical <acw></acw>and mental features. </div>

<h1 align="center">A Genuine University Degree in 4-6 weeks!</h1>
<div align="center"> 
 Have you ever thought that the only thing stopping you from a great job and 
 better pay was a few letters behind you name? 
 Well now you can get them! 
 
 BA BSc MA MSc MBA PhD 
 
 Within 4-6 weeks! 
 No Study Required! 
 100% Verifiable! 
 
 These are real, genuine degrees that include Bachelors, Masters, MBA and Doctorate 
 Degrees. They are fully verifiable and certified transcripts are also available. 
 
 
 Just call the number below. 
 You’ll thank me later… 
 
 1-815-828-2222 
 24 hours a day, 7 days a week including Sundays and Holidays 
</div> Almost at once, said Lupin, were just waiting for

MacMan104 wrote:
> I have tried your program and think its fantastic.

Thanks!

> But one thing that would make this even better is being able to use a
> single panoramic image, using a spherical map, instead of a cubic map
> with 6 images.
> 
> Please let me know if this is a posability.

This is certainly possible. It just hasn't been implemented yet because
cubic clearly seems the best of the usual formats for full panoramas to 
me (most uniform distribution of resolution).

In the meantime, you can just convert your equirectangular panoramas to 
cubic. On the Mac, one (slightly hackish) way is to use MakeCubic 
<http://developer.apple.com/quicktime/quicktimeintro/tools/index.html> 
to make a cubic QTVR movie and then use FileJuicer 
<http://echoone.com/filejuicer/> to extract the JPEGs from it, but I'm 
sure there's also lots of software that can do it directly. You'll 
probably find something on <http://wiki.panotools.org/>.

  -Christian

I have tried your program and think its fantastic.  But one thing that would
make this even better is being able to use a single panoramic image, using a
spherical map, instead of a cubic map with 6 images.

Please let me know if this is a posability.

Thank you. 

Dear Sir or Madam:

Our new security camera, IR LED Vandalproof dome camera, has been listed on our website.

*Sony/Sharp CCD sensor
*Easy to adjust the lens,without dismantling the dome housing.
*Very good picture and signal quality

For more details about them,welcome to visit our website: www.advis.com.cn  , which has 200 kinds of CCTV cameras.

Awaiting your contact soon..

Best regards,

Rena
Tel:86-755-82660165/82660170
Email:re...@12...
Website: www.advis.com.cn

Since SourceForge now offers a Subversion service, development of Pipmak 
will from now on happen in Subversion instead of CVS. I just finished 
migration of the CVS content into Subversion (I wasn't completely 
satisfied with SourceForge's cvs2svn output and applied a lot of manual 
tweaks to the 11.5 MB Subversion dump). Due to Subversion's better 
binary file handling, I also retroactively added the demo project.

One immediate benefit of the migration (apart from the fact that I like 
Subversion better than CVS) is that the synchronization delay between 
the developer repository and the publically visible repository is 
eliminated - changes are now visible to the public immediately after 
they are checked in.

To use Pipmak's Subversion repository, install a Subversion client if 
you don't already have one 
(<http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html>, 
<http://sourceforge.net/docs/B01/en/#svn_client>) and run

   svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pipmak/trunk/pipmak

to get the latest Pipmak source code, or run

   svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pipmak/trunk/demo

to get the latest demo project.

You can also browse the repository on the web at 
<http://svn.sourceforge.net/pipmak>.

  -Christian

Christian Walther wrote:
> I just committed a GTK implementation of the platform-specific
> functions (error messages, open and save dialogs) for Linux (and other
> Unixes). It works here with GTK 2.10 on Fedora Core 4 on x86, and it
> should work with GTK >= 2.4 anywhere.
> 
> Urs, or anyone, if you have any comments about my somewhat unorthodox
> solutions (GTK just doesn't seem to be made for sporadic use in
> non-GTK applications), please let me know.

Yeah! This (the source code) looks good. I tried it the same way (some
time ago) and was stuck with the dialog not closing. I found out that
calling gtk_main would solve that problem, but never return. But you
found the solution:

From the source:
/* for some reason, the dialog isn't closed without the following two
lines */
g_timeout_add(0, quitGtkMain, NULL);
gtk_main();

The good thing is, that you can easily implement the dialogs unsing
other libraries. The problem is, I think, that linking a complete
GTK-Library to a game, that only uses error-dialogs and
file-save/load-dialogs from GTK and implements all other graphic stuff
through SDL is an overkill. But for us, this is not a big problem,
because the unhappy ones can compile pipmak without GTK.

So, your solution is good.

I just committed a GTK implementation of the platform-specific functions 
(error messages, open and save dialogs) for Linux (and other Unixes). It 
works here with GTK 2.10 on Fedora Core 4 on x86, and it should work 
with GTK >= 2.4 anywhere.

Urs, or anyone, if you have any comments about my somewhat unorthodox 
solutions (GTK just doesn't seem to be made for sporadic use in non-GTK 
applications), please let me know.

  -Christian

Cooper Stevenson wrote: 
> Two primary questions arise: is it feasible to create a
cross-platform 
> interface between the two game engines and if so, may we enlist the
help 
> of a Z-machines developer to make this a reality? 

"Samyse" replied:

I'd use anything but the Z-machine.  If you want to use Inform, then 
that means use Glulx.  It has better defined I/O and GUI models.  You'd 
still have to build your own 'terp, but I think it would be easier.

All,

I wrote the following to the rec.arts.int-fiction newsgroup:

Overview
--------

This post is to explore the possibility of integrating the Inform
Interactive Fiction Language with photo-realistic panoramic views.
Optionaly, GIS (Geographical Information System) data could be
incorporated to aid the player and designer in mapping the world.

Detail
------

I recall vividly waiting in feverish anticipation for my uncles to
arrive at our house on a weekend night. They're arrival ultimately meant
one thing: an intense game of "Adventure" on the Apple IIc. I recall
listening to the floppy drive, praying that it would whir more than
normal--this was our first que that we had hit upon the solution!

I like to travel, and in my spare time I've thought about ways to push
out my experiences to family members in as near real time as possible.
The answer is yes, it is possible to provide a basic journal of one's
travel with others. I tested this last fall on a backpacking trip; my
goal wasn't to create the next Times Magazine picture of the year, but
rather to explore mechanics of taking down images, recording their
positions, and posting them to the Internet. You may see the results
linked here (3.5M PDF file):

  http://cooper.stevenson.name/backpacking/obsidian_flows.pdf

Naturally, my thought evolved into thinking about how neat it would be
if one could actually visit the area virtually, wich of course gave way
to the idea of incorporating a full interactive adventure complete with
puzzles, etc.

It turns out that there is an open source engine that lets you turn your
360 deg. images into an interactive world. If you've never seen a
panoramic image and your browser supports Java, you can see an example
panorama here:

  http://www.path.unimelb.edu.au/~dersch/StBp_ptvj.html

Pipmak, the Open Source Interactive Engine that I am referring to is
linked here:

  http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/

Pipmak is a cross-platform 3D game engine including with support for
clickable "hotspots" and and a complete scripting language backend
called "Lua."

Imagine for example, viewing a panorama of the scene linked below and
hearing a recording of the actual place, along with a narrative:

  http://cooper.stevenson.name/beach/lighthouse.png

  [Cove]

    Jutted basalt rocks extend defiently into the ocean to the West and
    sweep past to you, extending Eastward. The rocks give way to the
    sandy beach found in the deepest part of the cove to your Southeast.
    To the South, a massive continental outcropping in the coastline
    jets into the ocean such that it takes up most of the horizon to the
    South. Atop the outcropping is an old lighthouse who's light beacon
    sweeps the horizon seen as an occasional flicker of light in your
    direction.

    A trail appears to meander up the stone outcropping and lead to the
    lighthouse to your Southeast.

The idea, then would be to pass messages between the Pipmak engine and
the Inform language. 

For example, suppose the user clicked on the far left side of the image
above. This would send the message "se" to the Z-machine interpreter.
Various other hotspot clicks would send messages such as "examine,"
"open door," etc. The user would still have the option, of course, of
entering in commands to the interpreter directly. It's also feasible to
forgo the hotspot clicks and interact with the game completely with the
keyboard while Pipmak handles the panoramic images exclusively.

Two primary questions arise: is it feasible to create a cross-platform
interface between the two game engines and if so, may we enlist the help
of a Z-machines developer to make this a reality?

If this proposal achieves progress to the next phase of planning, it
will be discussed on the this newsgroup and the Pipmak mailing list
linked here:

  http://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.devel.pipmak.devel

Best,

Cooper Stevenson

On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 16:22 +0100, Christian Walther wrote:
> D. Cooper Stevenson wrote:
> > It turns out that there is an entire interactive fiction library
> > (Inform) that does all of these things:
> >   http://www.inform-fiction.org/index.html
> > 
> > The trick may be writing an interface between Pipmak and the Inform
> > Library.
> > ...
> > Is it be possible to send short user messages between Pipmak and
> > Inform?
> > 
> > Perhaps Pipmak could specialize in displaying the panoramic scene in
> > lock-step with the adventure. That would boil the interaction to
> > basically a one-way affair, such that Inform would pass something like
> > the following to Pipmak when the user types "SouthEast" in the
> > adventure:
> >    pipmak.gotonode(18)
> >    
> > Two windows in the end: one for text/speech/music and one for the rich
> > panoramic views.
> 
> I did not know about Inform (I've never been a fan of text adventures) 
> and am just reading up on it. If I understand correctly, Inform is just 
> an authoring tool, and the thing that Pipmak would have to communicate 
> with is a Z-Machine interpreter. If we find some suitable cross-platform 
> way of inter-process communication, I could probably do the Pipmak half 
> of such a project, but since I know nothing about the Z-Machine, a 
> Z-Machine expert would have to do the other half. Or, first, judge 
> whether it is feasible at all.
> 
> So, you should probably ask that question on an Inform/Z-Machine related 
> newsgroup and see what they say.
> 
>   -Christian
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
> for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Pipmak-Devel mailing list
> Pip...@li...
> news://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.devel.pipmak.devel
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pipmak-devel
> 

D. Cooper Stevenson wrote:
> It turns out that there is an entire interactive fiction library
> (Inform) that does all of these things:
>   http://www.inform-fiction.org/index.html
> 
> The trick may be writing an interface between Pipmak and the Inform
> Library.
> ...
> Is it be possible to send short user messages between Pipmak and
> Inform?
> 
> Perhaps Pipmak could specialize in displaying the panoramic scene in
> lock-step with the adventure. That would boil the interaction to
> basically a one-way affair, such that Inform would pass something like
> the following to Pipmak when the user types "SouthEast" in the
> adventure:
>    pipmak.gotonode(18)
>    
> Two windows in the end: one for text/speech/music and one for the rich
> panoramic views.

I did not know about Inform (I've never been a fan of text adventures) 
and am just reading up on it. If I understand correctly, Inform is just 
an authoring tool, and the thing that Pipmak would have to communicate 
with is a Z-Machine interpreter. If we find some suitable cross-platform 
way of inter-process communication, I could probably do the Pipmak half 
of such a project, but since I know nothing about the Z-Machine, a 
Z-Machine expert would have to do the other half. Or, first, judge 
whether it is feasible at all.

So, you should probably ask that question on an Inform/Z-Machine related 
newsgroup and see what they say.

  -Christian

Of course, just to confuse things, I replied as follows to Cristian's
reply:

Hi Christian,

On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 13:41 +0100, Christian Walther wrote:

> Beautiful photo! Can't wait to see it in Pipmak...

Thank you! 

> One idea I don't completely get (not that it's relevant for your 
> questions, but anyway...): Is that description part of the game too?

Yes. I think you touched on a great thing that I had only thought of in
passing. See below...

> And if so, how is it presented? As text overlaying the panorama? 
> Independent of the panorama, with the user being able to switch
between 
> text and panorama? Spoken?

Honestly, I had originally thought of the text printed
semi-translucently printed over the image and had flirted only briefly
with speech. I wonder, though, with the popularity of "spoken novels,"
if speech combined with text in a separate window would work even
better.

One could even lay the spoken text to one track, sound effects (the
lapping of the waves in this example), and background music on a third.
The player could toggle each individually. The Inform library (see
below) does this.

It turns out that there is an entire interactive fiction library
(Inform) that does all of these things:

  http://www.inform-fiction.org/index.html

The trick may be writing an interface between Pipmak and the Inform
Library.

> If there are multiple 
> verbs, the question is, how should the user interface for that look.

Right. In this case you could both "look" and "listen" to the seashell.
If we could make Inform and Pipmak "talk" to each other, it would be a
truly powerful tool for interactive fiction...groundbreaking, I would
say.

>  A 
> problem could be that Pipmak currently doesn't support graphic
elements 
> that are fixed to the screen (as opposed to attached to the
panorama). 
> That's a planned feature, though.

Oh, don't worry; I'm happy to do the patching work for interactive game
elements.

> 
> Also, there is currently no text output capability except for the 
> Pipmak terminal (pipmak.print() function), which is mainly intended
as 
> a debugging tool and not for user interaction in a finished game. So 
> everything that exceeds the terminal's capabilities has to be done
with 
> pictures. There's no text input either, unless you program it
yourself 
> by reacting to individual key presses.

Right. Is it be possible to send short user messages between Pipmak and
Inform?

Perhaps Pipmak could specialize in displaying the panoramic scene in
lock-step with the adventure. That would boil the interaction to
basically a one-way affair, such that Inform would pass something like
the following to Pipmak when the user types "SouthEast" in the
adventure:

   pipmak.gotonode(18)

Two windows in the end: one for text/speech/music and one for the rich
panoramic views.

> Sure - your project sounds exciting, and hearing about users' needs 
> also provides ideas and helps me in setting priorities for Pipmak's 
> further development.

In kind, having responsive developers makes people chose some projects
over others!

> 
> By the way, if you think this discussion could be useful for others
to 
> read as well, I encourage you to continue it on the pipmak-users 
> mailing list (http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/maillists.php). But if 
> you'd like to keep your project private, that's OK too.
> 

I'm posting to the list directly and am happy to do it.

Thanks!

Coop

On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 11:17 -0800, D. Cooper Stevenson wrote:
> >From my original message, Christian replied:
> 
> Hi Coop
> 
> > To get an idea of what I am talking about, please see the attached 
> > image (I am an amateur photographer) complimenting the following 
> > description:
> >
> >    [Cove]
> >
> >    ...
> >
> > And so on. You get the idea.
> 
> Beautiful photo! Can't wait to see it in Pipmak...
> One idea I don't completely get (not that it's relevant for your 
> questions, but anyway...): Is that description part of the game too? 
> And if so, how is it presented? As text overlaying the panorama? 
> Independent of the panorama, with the user being able to switch between 
> text and panorama? Spoken?
> 
> > If you have a second, I would like to ask you a couple of questions:
> >
> >  1) I think it will be possible to "flatten" my panoramas, cut them
> to 
> > size, and place them in Pipmak's engine as sides of a cube. Do you 
> > forsee any trouble with this? How would I consistently ensure that I 
> > have the correct pixel length plus the half-pixel necessary for 
> > seemless transition between frames.
> >      It seems like this process could be relatively straightforward
> or 
> > incredibly variable.
> 
> That depends on the form of your source material. If I understand you 
> correctly, you took these photos and then stitched them together in 
> some panorama application? What types of panoramas can that application 
> produce? Cubic would be easiest, but equirectangular (spherical) or 
> cylindrical could be reprojected to cubic too, at the expense of some 
> quality (the tool of my choice would be POV-Ray, but there might be 
> specialized apps for that task). That half-pixel thing also applies to 
> cubic QuickTime panoramas, so if your app can create those, that's 
> already taken care of (hopefully).
> 
> >  2) Does Lua support user input at the "amateur programmer" level? In 
> > other words, would it be a large effort to implement commands such as 
> > "examine seashell" with Lua and Pikmap?
> 
> Depends. If "examine" is the only verb that applies to the seashell, 
> it's easy - just place a hotspot over the seashell and have it do 
> whatever you like when clicked (say, go to a slide node that displays a 
> close-up picture and a description of the shell). If there are multiple 
> verbs, the question is, how should the user interface for that look. A 
> problem could be that Pipmak currently doesn't support graphic elements 
> that are fixed to the screen (as opposed to attached to the panorama). 
> That's a planned feature, though.
> 
> Also, there is currently no text output capability except for the 
> Pipmak terminal (pipmak.print() function), which is mainly intended as 
> a debugging tool and not for user interaction in a finished game. So 
> everything that exceeds the terminal's capabilities has to be done with 
> pictures. There's no text input either, unless you program it yourself 
> by reacting to individual key presses.
> 
> > I hope, Christian, that at the very least I have helped stir your 
> > imagination.
> 
> Sure - your project sounds exciting, and hearing about users' needs 
> also provides ideas and helps me in setting priorities for Pipmak's 
> further development.
> 
> By the way, if you think this discussion could be useful for others to 
> read as well, I encourage you to continue it on the pipmak-users 
> mailing list (http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/maillists.php). But if 
> you'd like to keep your project private, that's OK too.
> 
> Greetings
> 
>   Christian
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 11:15 -0800, D. Cooper Stevenson wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > Christian asked if I would post the following to the Pipmak mailing
> > list, of which I am happy to do [with edited the the attachment image to
> > a link to share with you]:
> > 
> > Hi Christian,
> >         
> >         For the past couple of months, I have steadily worked on an
> >         interactive fiction game in my spare time. The goal is to create
> >         a work that give the player a chance to immerse themselves in a
> >         story that takes place in the Astoria, Oregon area. For this I
> >         built a powerful server capaple of producing 360 panoramas in a
> >         reasonable amount of time. To get an idea of what I am talking
> >         about, please see [the following link] (I am an amateur
> >         photographer):
> >         
> >           http://cooper.stevenson.name/beach/lighthouse.png
> >         
> >          complimenting the following description:
> >         
> >             [Cove]
> >         
> >                     Jutted basalt rocks extend defiantly into the ocean
> >                 to the West and sweep past to you, extending Eastward.
> >                 The rocks give way to the sandy beach found in the
> >                 deepest part of the cove to your Southeast. To the
> >                 South, a massive continental outcropping in the
> >                 coastline jets into the ocean such that it comprises
> >                 most of the coastal horizon. Atop the outcropping is an
> >                 old lighthouse who's light beacon sweeps the horizon
> >                 seen as an occasional flicker of light in your
> >                 direction.
> >                 
> >                 A trail appears to meander up the stone outcropping and
> >                 lead to the lighthouse to your Southeast.
> >         
> >         And so on. You get the idea. If you have a second, I would like
> >         to ask you a couple of questions:
> >         
> >           1) I think it will be possible to "flatten" my panoramas, cut
> >         them to size, and place them in Pipmak's engine as sides of a
> >         cube. Do you foresee any trouble with this? How would I
> >         consistently ensure that I have the correct pixel length plus
> >         the half-pixel necessary for seamless transition between frames.
> >         
> >         It seems like this process could be relatively straightforward
> >         or 
> >         incredibly variable.
> >         
> >         2) Does Lua support user input at the "amateur programmer"
> >         level? In other words, would it be a large effort to implement
> >         commands such as "examine seashell" with Lua and Pikmap?
> >         
> >         I hope, Christian, that at the very least I have helped stir
> >         your 
> >         imagination. An thank you again for a great project.
> >         
> >         
> >         -Coop
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
> > for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> > searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
> > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pipmak-Devel mailing list
> > Pip...@li...
> > news://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.devel.pipmak.devel
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pipmak-devel
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
> for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Pipmak-Devel mailing list
> Pip...@li...
> news://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.devel.pipmak.devel
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pipmak-devel
> 

>From my original message, Christian replied:

Hi Coop

> To get an idea of what I am talking about, please see the attached 
> image (I am an amateur photographer) complimenting the following 
> description:
>
>    [Cove]
>
>    ...
>
> And so on. You get the idea.

Beautiful photo! Can't wait to see it in Pipmak...
One idea I don't completely get (not that it's relevant for your 
questions, but anyway...): Is that description part of the game too? 
And if so, how is it presented? As text overlaying the panorama? 
Independent of the panorama, with the user being able to switch between 
text and panorama? Spoken?

> If you have a second, I would like to ask you a couple of questions:
>
>  1) I think it will be possible to "flatten" my panoramas, cut them
to 
> size, and place them in Pipmak's engine as sides of a cube. Do you 
> forsee any trouble with this? How would I consistently ensure that I 
> have the correct pixel length plus the half-pixel necessary for 
> seemless transition between frames.
>      It seems like this process could be relatively straightforward
or 
> incredibly variable.

That depends on the form of your source material. If I understand you 
correctly, you took these photos and then stitched them together in 
some panorama application? What types of panoramas can that application 
produce? Cubic would be easiest, but equirectangular (spherical) or 
cylindrical could be reprojected to cubic too, at the expense of some 
quality (the tool of my choice would be POV-Ray, but there might be 
specialized apps for that task). That half-pixel thing also applies to 
cubic QuickTime panoramas, so if your app can create those, that's 
already taken care of (hopefully).

>  2) Does Lua support user input at the "amateur programmer" level? In 
> other words, would it be a large effort to implement commands such as 
> "examine seashell" with Lua and Pikmap?

Depends. If "examine" is the only verb that applies to the seashell, 
it's easy - just place a hotspot over the seashell and have it do 
whatever you like when clicked (say, go to a slide node that displays a 
close-up picture and a description of the shell). If there are multiple 
verbs, the question is, how should the user interface for that look. A 
problem could be that Pipmak currently doesn't support graphic elements 
that are fixed to the screen (as opposed to attached to the panorama). 
That's a planned feature, though.

Also, there is currently no text output capability except for the 
Pipmak terminal (pipmak.print() function), which is mainly intended as 
a debugging tool and not for user interaction in a finished game. So 
everything that exceeds the terminal's capabilities has to be done with 
pictures. There's no text input either, unless you program it yourself 
by reacting to individual key presses.

> I hope, Christian, that at the very least I have helped stir your 
> imagination.

Sure - your project sounds exciting, and hearing about users' needs 
also provides ideas and helps me in setting priorities for Pipmak's 
further development.

By the way, if you think this discussion could be useful for others to 
read as well, I encourage you to continue it on the pipmak-users 
mailing list (http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/maillists.php). But if 
you'd like to keep your project private, that's OK too.

Greetings

  Christian

On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 11:15 -0800, D. Cooper Stevenson wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Christian asked if I would post the following to the Pipmak mailing
> list, of which I am happy to do [with edited the the attachment image to
> a link to share with you]:
> 
> Hi Christian,
>         
>         For the past couple of months, I have steadily worked on an
>         interactive fiction game in my spare time. The goal is to create
>         a work that give the player a chance to immerse themselves in a
>         story that takes place in the Astoria, Oregon area. For this I
>         built a powerful server capaple of producing 360 panoramas in a
>         reasonable amount of time. To get an idea of what I am talking
>         about, please see [the following link] (I am an amateur
>         photographer):
>         
>           http://cooper.stevenson.name/beach/lighthouse.png
>         
>          complimenting the following description:
>         
>             [Cove]
>         
>                     Jutted basalt rocks extend defiantly into the ocean
>                 to the West and sweep past to you, extending Eastward.
>                 The rocks give way to the sandy beach found in the
>                 deepest part of the cove to your Southeast. To the
>                 South, a massive continental outcropping in the
>                 coastline jets into the ocean such that it comprises
>                 most of the coastal horizon. Atop the outcropping is an
>                 old lighthouse who's light beacon sweeps the horizon
>                 seen as an occasional flicker of light in your
>                 direction.
>                 
>                 A trail appears to meander up the stone outcropping and
>                 lead to the lighthouse to your Southeast.
>         
>         And so on. You get the idea. If you have a second, I would like
>         to ask you a couple of questions:
>         
>           1) I think it will be possible to "flatten" my panoramas, cut
>         them to size, and place them in Pipmak's engine as sides of a
>         cube. Do you foresee any trouble with this? How would I
>         consistently ensure that I have the correct pixel length plus
>         the half-pixel necessary for seamless transition between frames.
>         
>         It seems like this process could be relatively straightforward
>         or 
>         incredibly variable.
>         
>         2) Does Lua support user input at the "amateur programmer"
>         level? In other words, would it be a large effort to implement
>         commands such as "examine seashell" with Lua and Pikmap?
>         
>         I hope, Christian, that at the very least I have helped stir
>         your 
>         imagination. An thank you again for a great project.
>         
>         
>         -Coop
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
> for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Pipmak-Devel mailing list
> Pip...@li...
> news://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.devel.pipmak.devel
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pipmak-devel
> 

Hi All,

Christian asked if I would post the following to the Pipmak mailing
list, of which I am happy to do [with edited the the attachment image to
a link to share with you]:

Hi Christian,

        For the past couple of months, I have steadily worked on an
        interactive fiction game in my spare time. The goal is to create
        a work that give the player a chance to immerse themselves in a
        story that takes place in the Astoria, Oregon area. For this I
        built a powerful server capaple of producing 360 panoramas in a
        reasonable amount of time. To get an idea of what I am talking
        about, please see [the following link] (I am an amateur
        photographer):

          http://cooper.stevenson.name/beach/lighthouse.png

         complimenting the following description:

            [Cove]

                    Jutted basalt rocks extend defiantly into the ocean
                to the West and sweep past to you, extending Eastward.
                The rocks give way to the sandy beach found in the
                deepest part of the cove to your Southeast. To the
                South, a massive continental outcropping in the
                coastline jets into the ocean such that it comprises
                most of the coastal horizon. Atop the outcropping is an
                old lighthouse who's light beacon sweeps the horizon
                seen as an occasional flicker of light in your
                direction.

                A trail appears to meander up the stone outcropping and
                lead to the lighthouse to your Southeast.

        And so on. You get the idea. If you have a second, I would like
        to ask you a couple of questions:

          1) I think it will be possible to "flatten" my panoramas, cut
        them to size, and place them in Pipmak's engine as sides of a
        cube. Do you foresee any trouble with this? How would I
        consistently ensure that I have the correct pixel length plus
        the half-pixel necessary for seamless transition between frames.

        It seems like this process could be relatively straightforward
        or 
        incredibly variable.

        2) Does Lua support user input at the "amateur programmer"
        level? In other words, would it be a large effort to implement
        commands such as "examine seashell" with Lua and Pikmap?

        I hope, Christian, that at the very least I have helped stir
        your 
        imagination. An thank you again for a great project.

        -Coop

http://80607.jp/koiland/index.html

$B%a!<%k<u?.5qH](B
I don' veceive yourmail
gya...@ya...	

$B$O$8$a$^$7$F!"_7ED$H?=$7$^$9!#$$$-$J$j$N%a!<%k$G?=$7Lu$4$6$$$^$;$s!#(B
$B:#;d$O!"<RD9$G$"$k5\:j!!N$H~!J(B34$B!K$NHk=q$r$7$F$*$j$^$9!"(Bhttp://80607.jp/baitoru/index.html $B<RD9$K0MMj$5$l!"(B
$B<RD9$H3Z$7$$;~4V$r2a$4$7$F$$$?$@$1$k!"CK@-$rC5$7$F$*$j$^$9!#<RD9$H%a!<%k$@$1$G$b$7$F$$$?$@$1$l$P!"(B
$B<RD9$H$N@\BTHq$H$7$F!"?69~$_$b$G$-$^$9!"$b$7;~4V$r:n$C$F2q$C$F$$$?$@$1$k$N$G$"$l$P!"$=$l$J$j$NHqMQ$r$3$A$i$bMQ0U$7$^$9!#(B
$B7h$7$F2x$7$$$b$N$G$O$"$j$^$;$s!">/$7$G$b6=L#$,$*$"$j$G$7$?$i!"6b3[$N>r7o!"<RD9$N4i<L??$N3NG'$r$3$A$i$G$7$F2<$5$$!#(B
http://80607.jp/baitoru/index.html

$B!c(BNO.I don't veceive your mail$B!d"M!!(Bgy...@ya...
$B!c:#8e!"<u?.$r5qH]$9$k>l9g$O!d"M!!(Bgy...@ya...

> In pipmak_windows.c and pipmak_macosx.m the function errorMessage
> displays a Box containing the message. Don't do this on UNIX platforms!
> Print the error message on the console (actually write them to the
> stderr stream):
>
> The reason why: This function is only needed for messages that occur
> before the graphical console is ready. On windows you have only to call
> a simple function from windows.h to display a dialogbox, which works in
> nearly every situation. On UNIX you have to connect to the x-server in
> order to display something like a message box. So it is a difficult and
> error prone way to get the message box (unlike in windows). SDL also
> connects to the x-server and initialises a window (and afterwards the
> graphical console can be used). If an error occurs because the window
> couldn't be initialised, trying to show a messageBox will fail too.

That's OK for me. Just take the implementation from 
pipmak_dummyplatform.c (actually it could be changed to use stderr 
instead of stdout there as well).

> Anyway, UNIX users like to have error messages printed to stderr.

I'm not so sure about that. It certainly applies to the majority of 
Linux users two years ago, but will it also apply to the majority of 
Linux users two years from now? People who start an application from a 
graphical desktop will never see error messages on stderr (unless they 
specifically go and look for them in the console log, which requires 
that they know about its existence in the first place).

Anyway, I agree that having errorMessage() print to stderr is 
sufficient for Pipmak, considering that it's only used in few 
exceptional cases. The deluxe solution, of course, would be to try 
displaying a graphical dialog and only resort to stderr if that fails 
as well.

  -Christian

In pipmak_windows.c and pipmak_macosx.m the function errorMessage
displays a Box containing the message. Don't do this on UNIX platforms!
Print the error message on the console (actually write them to the
stderr stream):

The reason why: This function is only needed for messages that occur
before the graphical console is ready. On windows you have only to call
a simple function from windows.h to display a dialogbox, which works in
nearly every situation. On UNIX you have to connect to the x-server in
order to display something like a message box. So it is a difficult and
error prone way to get the message box (unlike in windows). SDL also
connects to the x-server and initialises a window (and afterwards the
graphical console can be used). If an error occurs because the window
couldn't be initialised, trying to show a messageBox will fail too.

Anyway, UNIX users like to have error messages printed to stderr.

For windows it is simple: There is one windows library with all the
fancy stuff like open dialogs or save dialogs. In Linux there exist
libraries with this stuff too. But this is the problem: There are more
than one libraries to achieve this!

The first one I found is GTK+:
http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gtk/GtkFileChooserDialog.html
The user must have GTK+ installed. Many programmes use GTK+, so this
shouldn't be a big problem.

The second one is the kde-library:
http://developer.kde.org/documentation/library/3.0-api/classref/kfile/KFileDialog.html
This dialogbox is familiar to KDE users. But Linux users that don't use
KDE probably don't want to install the KDE libraries.

Both possibilities have the same problem:
They need a huge library to be linked that will not be used in the rest
of the programme. Great! Perhaps there is somewhere a little library
dedicated to file dialogs ...

Anyway, I will try to implement the Dialogbox from GTK+ for Linux.

The CVS version of Pipmak's source code now includes support for building on
Linux (and possibly other Unixes). As expected, no changes to the source code
were necessary to make Pipmak run on Linux. The platform specific functions
(open and save dialogs, mainly) aren't implemented yet, however.

On my PowerBook, software rendering through Mesa is much slower than Mac OS X's
or Windows' software renderers, so hardware 3D acceleration is absolutely
necessary.

So, I'll be able to include PPC Linux binaries in the next release. If you
want i386 binaries, you'll have to contribute them, or wait until I get around
to installing Linux in QEMU.

 -Christian

And the source code is available now, so we have moved Pipmak to its new 
home on SourceForge:
http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/

Thanks to Pilky we already have a beautiful web site, something that 
would have taken myself much longer to come up with.

Version 0.2.0 includes no major new features, but a few bug fixes and 
enhancements, some of which break backwards compatibility with 0.1 
projects, and more documentation. See the detailed release notes here: 
http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=259979

Download (http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/downloads.php) and enjoy!

  -Christian

2004	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul (1)	Aug (2)	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
2005	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul (3)	Aug	Sep	Oct (2)	Nov	Dec (6)
2006	Jan (2)	Feb	Mar (1)	Apr	May	Jun	Jul (1)	Aug (3)	Sep (4)	Oct (5)	Nov	Dec
2007	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul (31)	Aug (11)	Sep (3)	Oct (3)	Nov	Dec (1)
2008	Jan (38)	Feb (19)	Mar (9)	Apr (1)	May (8)	Jun	Jul	Aug (1)	Sep (2)	Oct (16)	Nov (5)	Dec
2009	Jan (4)	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul (8)	Aug	Sep	Oct (4)	Nov (10)	Dec
2010	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun (2)	Jul (1)	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
2014	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec (1)
2017	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May (1)	Jun (1)	Jul (1)	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
2020	Jan (2)	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec

pipmak-devel Mailing List for Pipmak Game Engine (Page 8)

pipmak-devel — Development of the Pipmak Game Engine