RE: [pimppa-users] I must be dense...

[LASZLO A. <la...@no...>]

As a further note, I did find that there _are_ other tools out there - =
though not many at all and I had to look deep...  Your note telling me =
to take a look at the competitors prompted me to make a few googles on =
key words like "linux news leech", "linux news reader", "usenet file =
grabber", etc...

I found at least one potential candidate in a list of two: BNR - Binary =
News Reaper (www.bnr2.org) - seems to be a more mature application than =
PIMPPA; KLibido - KDE version looks very similar to XNews in Windows (I =
haven't seen this one in operation and it's not what I'm looking for =
from what I can tell by the homepage and screenshots)

Laz


-----Original Message-----
From: LASZLO ACS
Sent: Tue 5/30/2006 10:07 AM
To: Igor Wronsky
Cc: pim...@li...
Subject: RE: [pimppa-users] I must be dense...
=20
Thanks, Igor, for your reply.

Since writing, I did figure out the source of my confusion.  It seemed =
that since I had tried using the Ubuntu "Synaptic" GUI to give me joy, =
and when that didn't happen from the initial 1st attempt in running =
Bowser by popping up an error message, I dug a little into the web and =
found your site to discover the "README" document.  The references your =
README document made to SETUP confused me since I didn't find that file =
in my system.  Getting MySQL up and running was a piece of cake; after =
that, I assumed clicking on and running Bowser would detect whether =
MySQL was running and take care of whatever was necessary to get the =
user up and running with the software.  No joy...  I still got the same =
error message as before.  I returned to the README file and perused it =
with a fine-toothed comb (ya know how hard this is with nappy and =
tangled substrates???)...  I searched for the files on my machine, =
eventually locating some of the scripts in a directory called "pimppa" =
(amazingly familiar).  There I found "create_database.sql" - hmmm...  =
viewing the file in my fav editor, I  got some insight to what was next. =
 I ran the script, it failed but gave me a useful error message [One of =
the things I absolutely abhor about the monopoly, M$, is the complete =
lack of information provided to the end-user with useless error messages =
and no intutive way to view the system to debug stuff...] letting me =
know I hadn't created the initial "god" MySQL user.  Re-running the =
script after remedying this - it WORKED!  I could log into MySQL or use =
the GUI, "Query Browser", to see the new "pimppa" database and the new =
tables created.=20

Now, I'm thinking to myself, I should be able to run Bowser.  And sure =
enough, it loads without error.  I go into its "preferences" and make =
some 'intelligent' choices  for configuring NNTP, etc.  I setup a =
newsgroup where I know there are a very small number of files just to =
test whether this will download anything.  I fire it off, up pops a =
terminal-like window letting me know what's happening - but it doesn't =
show anything happening after finding the group (long story - turns out =
there is a problem with Ubuntu and the GUI window - there's a lot of =
seg-faults and other issues using Bowser on Ubuntu [I'm running Dapper =
Beta, bleeding edge, so I kinda expect some problems...]).  After quite =
some time, I go back into non-GUI mode and see if I can figure out =
what's happening.  Looking through the files in the "pimppa" directory =
'cat'ing every file that I can, I discover the 'pleech' command and try =
'pleech --help' to discover this is a tool to invoke the downloading of =
files.  I run 'pleech -v' with no other arguments assuming (correctly, =
in this case, I've learned later) this will do the same thing Bowser did =
- sure enough, I got the same messages and data I saw in the =
Bowser-spawned output window.  Only this time, I saw that during the =
initial parsing there was an area being updated with progress numbers =
that didn't display in the Bowser-spawn.  I also noted behavior and =
determined there was a set of phases that was significantly different =
than the tool I had been familiar with in the Windows world.  [Side note =
- there is a tool (SBNews, have used this product for over 6 years) I =
can fire from the NT command-line AT scheduler that I really liked in =
the past but since I've now completely eliminated Winders products from =
most of my home net, I was looking for something similar and hopefully =
better in the open-source world.  This win tool had quite a usable GUI =
for configuration setting and could be used for leeching, but that =
wasn't it's prime purpose - it was a tool to be fired from the =
commandline and just run until it sucked down all the latest files (all =
of the new ones since the last time the tool was run) and quit.  I lived =
with all the duplicates and garbage files, wasting tons of time making =
tons of scripts and stuff to combat elimination of all this chaff.  but, =
all in all, it worked.  I had to turn it off from time to time due to =
running out of disk space before having time to go through the files =
determining what I wanted to keep and what to trash, what was good, what =
was incomplete, what was junk - and then burning the "good stuff" off to =
CD...  Ah, those were the days - I now have hundreds of CDs, hundreds of =
Gigs of useless, outdated stuff that was great state-of-art stuff back =
then...  But, I digress...]

So, I "saw" my initial attempt in config actually work, I saw articles =
flash by in the logging data and I saw that all articles were flagged as =
"NO MATCH" and ultimately saw that one file did download, the database =
got updated.  So, at this point I knew I had it working, but this tool =
was a "black box" for the moment and I knew I needed to dig further.  =
Also, I noted from initially visiting your 'Sourceforge' site, the =
version I'm running downloaded from some Ubuntu place was 0.5.7 and that =
'Sourceforge' site had 0.5.8 available.  After downloading the source =
from your site and extracting the contents, I was able to ascend the =
ranks of enlightenment!!!  I found the text file, 'SETUP' that gave me =
all the background and infrastructure information I needed to 'properly' =
configure the data contained in the pimppa tables and all the =
definitions and descriptions and options I need to use the software from =
the command-line.  It was the elusive SETUP file I needed all along!!! =20

I have now been up and running, happily leeching away while I sleep, as =
it were  :).  This tool IS what I was looking for and it did take some =
rocket science in getting it going - only because the GUI wasn't as =
useful as I assumed it to be and the initial error message confounding.  =
I feel amazed I was able to get something to work before I actually =
broke down, downloaded the latest source, and found the SETUP file.  As =
to whether there are better open-source tools out there - I haven't =
found any...  I suppose newsgroups are not in the realm of popularity as =
peer-to-peer stuff like Kazaa, Azureus and Torrents...

Thanks for the time and effort you took in creating this tool.  Perhaps, =
when I have a little time from my research and life's obligations, I'll =
assist in creating better documentation so the next person would have to =
go through the frustration I did to begin with (one of my many titles is =
"technical writer"...).

Cheers back at you,
Laz


-----Original Message-----
From: Igor Wronsky [mailto:iwr...@us...]
Sent: Sat 5/27/2006 8:48 AM
To: LASZLO ACS
Cc: pim...@li...
Subject: Re: [pimppa-users] I must be dense...
=20
On Wed, 24 May 2006, LASZLO ACS wrote:

> So, I guess this is one of those rocket-science tools where ya gotta =
be
> a whiz-bang genius geek or something. I do some searching (my soul and
> elsewhere), finally stumbling upon your PIMPPA home on the web.  I =
look
> at the site for a while, stumbling on a page that holds the "READ ME"
> document - GASP!  This looks really complicated...
> I guess I'll need to take a vacation to get this working...

As usually is the case with open source software, I made it for
my own use originally, and slick setup wasn't one of the most
important design criteria. :) For those who know their way
around Linux, its not too difficult. The text file SETUP included
in the original distribution archive (from pimppa.sourceforge.net,
for example) contains step-by-step instructions for the
installation starting from the compilation of the source code.

When it comes to distros like Ubuntu, I'm happy if its accessible
from them, but I feel its the role of the package maintainers
to make the installation procedure compatible with the general
way of doing things in the resp. distribution, or, to provide a
small piece of documentation how the package is actually
made to work there. I'm not currently personally maintaining
any binary packages for any distribution.

> I sure would appreciate a bit of assistance from someone having a =
sense
> of humor and patience while I continue to stumble through ...

One thing that comes to mind is that many drops of water have
passed under the bridges of the world since I originally coded
PIMPPA. It could be that there are sexier and easier to use
software packages available for news-harvesting today. I haven't
checked lately, I still run pimppa by CRON and I'm reasonably
happy with it. But it might be a good idea to take a look at the

competitors. I tried to provide some links on pimppa homepage
to other similar software, but I don't know if they're the
state of the art any more. :)


Cheers,
Igor