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From: Kyle d. <dav...@ya...> - 2004-05-01 15:40:35
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Tag hans, I didn't mean to offend. After I had already sent the message out, I thought about how it wouldn't be fair to the developers who are no longer involved. However, it wasn't necessarily *my idea* I just merely noticed other projects at sourceforge have donation links. These products are just as worthwhile to me (Clamwin, GAIM, etc.) as pilot-db is. I guess I was just looking for an easy way out (I know that I should be more involved and testing it on the m130, and the departments TC (when it's working) but right now I just don't have the time. Again, entshuldegung. I have contributed a couple of databases. I also feel like I have tested (pilot-DB) because I use it at my job every day. However, I feel like the rudimentary testing I'm able to do on the units I have isn't good enough. I don't have POSE installed, even if I did, I'm not sure I'd be able to duplicate an error on POSE that I get on my m130 or the department's TC. BTW, I like the web page design, es ist sehr toll. -----Original Message----- From: hol...@di... [mailto:hol...@di...] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 8:04 AM To: pil...@li... Cc: dav...@ya... Subject: Re: [pilot-db-list] Devs needing PDAs to test / Donations? Hi, Donations? A definite NO!! This is an OpenSource program! This means that anyone who is willing to help out can take part - I for my part look after the Web-Site. Whom should such a donation go to? It would be unfair if the 'old' programmers, who are not active anymore, but on whose ideas this great program is based on, do not benefit from such 'donations'. This can only be done if someone makes his own program and looks for people to help him/her out. This is NOT the spirit of OpenSource programming! OpenSource programs such as this one live from the fact that various people with various interests, from various regions of the world get together to develop software which is freely available to every one. The best 'donation' that one can give is one's own time by helping out. There are many ways of helping out - Beta-Testing is the easiest - one can make databases available that one has made - one can help out with icons etc. THIS is what is required - upholding the spirit of OpenSource programs!! This is more precious than money! The license is GNU. Have a look at it. Hans Ajiet Holtkamp -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [pilot-db-list] Devs needing PDAs to test, possy solution? (28-Apr-2004 20:27) From: dav...@ya... To: pil...@li... > Nate, (et al lurking developers or developing tinkerers..) > > Have you discussed with Tom or any of the other developers of > putting > up a Donate link? I certainly would be willing to donate $$ to the > cause ( > I > have more of this than time.) And perhaps others on the list would as well. > If enough money is donated, you guys could pick up some actual new rev > palms > (PalmOS4 or higher) or Sonys, or whatever your preference is so you > have > your own test bed right in front of you. > > I have also been accumulating Palm Bucks. If I get enough, I would > even be willing to part with my dear, trusty old m130 if your interested... > > But I think putting up a donate link might be the way to go. Not > sure what the sourceforge rules are on this. > > What are your thoughts? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Oracle 10g > Get certified on the hottest thing ever to hit the market... Oracle 10g. > Take an Oracle 10g class now, and we'll give you the exam FREE. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3149&alloc_id=8166&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Pilot-db-list mailing list > Pil...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pilot-db-list > > To: pil...@li... To: pil...@li... Cc: dav...@ya... |
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From: <hol...@di...> - 2004-05-01 13:03:40
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Hi, Donations? A definite NO!! This is an OpenSource program! This means that anyone who is willing to help out can take part - I for my part look after the Web-Site. Whom should such a donation go to? It would be unfair if the 'old' programmers, who are not active anymore, but on whose ideas this great program is based on, do not benefit from such 'donations'. This can only be done if someone makes his own program and looks for people to help him/her out. This is NOT the spirit of OpenSource programming! OpenSource programs such as this one live from the fact that various people with various interests, from various regions of the world get together to develop software which is freely available to every one. The best 'donation' that one can give is one's own time by helping out. There are many ways of helping out - Beta-Testing is the easiest - one can make databases available that one has made - one can help out with icons etc. THIS is what is required - upholding the spirit of OpenSource programs!! This is more precious than money! The license is GNU. Have a look at it. Hans Ajiet Holtkamp -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [pilot-db-list] Devs needing PDAs to test, possy solution? (28-Apr-2004 20:27) From: dav...@ya... To: pil...@li... > Nate, (et al lurking developers or developing tinkerers..) > > Have you discussed with Tom or any of the other developers of putting > up a Donate link? I certainly would be willing to donate $$ to the cause ( > I > have more of this than time.) And perhaps others on the list would as well. > If enough money is donated, you guys could pick up some actual new rev > palms > (PalmOS4 or higher) or Sonys, or whatever your preference is so you have > your own test bed right in front of you. > > I have also been accumulating Palm Bucks. If I get enough, I would > even be willing to part with my dear, trusty old m130 if your interested... > > But I think putting up a donate link might be the way to go. Not > sure what the sourceforge rules are on this. > > What are your thoughts? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Oracle 10g > Get certified on the hottest thing ever to hit the market... Oracle 10g. > Take an Oracle 10g class now, and we'll give you the exam FREE. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3149&alloc_id=8166&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Pilot-db-list mailing list > Pil...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pilot-db-list > > To: pil...@li... To: pil...@li... Cc: dav...@ya... |
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From: <Cyb...@ao...> - 2004-05-03 05:51:53
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In a message dated 5/1/2004 9:58:18 PM US Mountain Standard Time, na...@ve... writes: > From: dav...@ya... > To: pil...@li... > > > Have you discussed with Tom or any of the other developers of > > putting up a Donate link? I certainly would be willing to donate > > $$ to the cause (I have more of this than time.) And perhaps > > others on the list would as well. This is the only discussion that there has been. I _was_ approached by someone a few weeks ago about someone who was interested in making a donation in return for some specific feature additions, but because of his short time frame and the large size of what he needed we decided it would make more sense to do it with me as a private contract. Then the project he was going to need it for fell through. > > If enough money is donated, you guys could pick up some actual new > > rev palms (PalmOS4 or higher) or Sonys, or whatever your > > preference is so you have your own test bed right in front of you. Lacking a modern Palm pilot is probably less of a development impediment than it sounds. The real problem is that the modern Palm Simulators (not the older Emulator, aka POSE) run only on Windows. I tend to run only Linux, which generally is a great development environment and historically has been well supported by Palm, but is not currently being supported much at all. So while having a new Palm would be better than nothing, having a working Simulator would actually be a much better situation. It's faster, smoother, allows one to switch and test different devices, and is easier to debug. Unfortunately, convincing Palm and the other manufacturers to do this---or to help get the Simulator working under Wine---is a much harder task than just buying a new device. > > I have also been accumulating Palm Bucks. If I get enough, I > > would even be willing to part with my dear, trusty old m130 if > > your interested... That might be a useful thing to have, although what would be more useful would be a device that supports high resolution. That's what's proving hardest to debug because the Emulator does not support it. > > But I think putting up a donate link might be the way to go. Not > > sure what the sourceforge rules are on this. > > What are your thoughts? SourceForge sent me mail a while ago strongly encouraging me to put up such a link. My thought was that we are too loosely organized to make use of such a donation right now. Equipment would be a possible use, but I'm not sure if it would be a good use of funds. Paying for a couple PalmSource trouble tickets might be another use that would serve us well in the future when we run into devlopment brick walls. > From: hol...@di... [mailto:hol...@di...] > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 8:04 AM > > Donations? A definite NO!! This is an OpenSource program! I'm not as strongly against the idea as this. There may be points in the future where it would be useful, but probably not right now. > Whom should such a donation go to? I think the better question is for what, not for whom. If a donation of money or used equipment would improve the rate of development, I wouldn't argue against it. I'm just not sure it would right now. > It would be unfair if the 'old' programmers, who are not > active anymore, but on whose ideas this great program is > based on, do not benefit from such 'donations'. Well, if the donation is of testing equipment, I'd think it would be quite fair if it would go to anyone who is willing to commit to using it for increased testing. If that would either attract new people, or reinvolve old ones, I don't see much of a problem with fairness. > The best 'donation' that one can give is one's own time > by helping out. > There are many ways of helping out - Beta-Testing is the > easiest - one can make databases available that one > has made - one can help out with icons etc. I'd agree that this is absolutely true. Time is certainly my limiting factor right now. The testers that have been helping with the alpha-releases have helped things go a lot faster. > THIS is what is required - upholding the spirit of > OpenSource programs!! This is more precious than money! On the other hand, there are people (as stated above) who would like to help with development but currently have more money than time available to them. If that money could help the development, then it would be a valuable gift. But right now what we need most is more involvement on the development side, and I'm not sure the money could be put to a good enough use. But I wouldn't eliminate the idea. --nate ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Oracle 10g Get certified on the hottest thing ever to hit the market... Oracle 10g. Take an Oracle 10g class now, and we'll give you the exam FREE. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3149&alloc_id=8166&op=click _______________________________________________ Pilot-db-list mailing list Pil...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pilot-db-list I for one have been known to help dev many different projects including Stampede, SourceMage, and Wine. Lately though with all my work and a LOT of personal stuff getting in the way I am having more and more time taken away leaving me with little to do but read some email and go to bed. So for me if there is a way to donate to the project even though I have little time it would be great. Yes I do understand some people think opensource means spend no money, but this idea usually does not pan out very well in the real world. However I do respect nate's hold on accepting donations at this time due to not knowing where it should all go to best help out the project. If any ideas for hardware are good. I recommend putting up a "wish-list" on the website so if anyone has the hardware to donate they can instantly see it. Like for example would a 2mb Zire be a good thing only to test cpu and memory load of the database engine. What kind of high res palm would be a good idea to have to test the high res you cant on the emulator? |
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From: marc\.chalain <mar...@la...> - 2004-05-03 17:51:15
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Like all others people who worked on the project, i think i must give my= point of view. I'm not as radical as Hans but my idea is closed. I use=0D = Open-Source software, and i don't give never money. My retribution to th= e community was Pilot-DB. My idea is when you are able give a part of yo= ur work to the community, that is the retribution. This idea was the fir= st idea of the Open-Source development, but the minds change. To make= money with Pilot-DB, i implemented the plugin feature. Everybody can ma= ke a Plugin and sell it to anotherone. There is no rule on this part.=0D = After if you donate, how do you redistribute the money? How can you te= ll this personn worked more than this one? And if you receive money and = you stop to contribute to the project, the new maintainer works for you = wallet? I think he will not like that. And i think you make a contract w= ith the users and you certify that you will maintain Pilot-DB in the fut= ure. If Nathan want to be retribute, he can. For myself, i don't want= money. I paid my Open-Source contribution (but i continue in others pro= jects but not as maintainer), now all is complete for me. When i maintai= ned Pilot-DB, I asked more and more help, and i find that i didn't recei= ve enought help (i thank again everybody who help me, Hans, Scott, docum= entation writters, translation writters, beta-testers... ), i spent to=0D = much time to answer to the e-mails. Salut, Marc.=0A=0AAcc=E9dez au co= urrier =E9lectronique de La Poste : www.laposte.net ; =0A3615 LAPOSTENET = (0,34=80/mn) ; t=E9l : 08 92 68 13 50 (0,34=80/mn)=0A=0A |
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From: Nathan K. <na...@ve...> - 2004-05-02 04:57:33
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> From: dav...@ya... > To: pil...@li... > > > Have you discussed with Tom or any of the other developers of > > putting up a Donate link? I certainly would be willing to donate > > $$ to the cause (I have more of this than time.) And perhaps > > others on the list would as well. This is the only discussion that there has been. I _was_ approached by someone a few weeks ago about someone who was interested in making a donation in return for some specific feature additions, but because of his short time frame and the large size of what he needed we decided it would make more sense to do it with me as a private contract. Then the project he was going to need it for fell through. > > If enough money is donated, you guys could pick up some actual new > > rev palms (PalmOS4 or higher) or Sonys, or whatever your > > preference is so you have your own test bed right in front of you. Lacking a modern Palm pilot is probably less of a development impediment than it sounds. The real problem is that the modern Palm Simulators (not the older Emulator, aka POSE) run only on Windows. I tend to run only Linux, which generally is a great development environment and historically has been well supported by Palm, but is not currently being supported much at all. So while having a new Palm would be better than nothing, having a working Simulator would actually be a much better situation. It's faster, smoother, allows one to switch and test different devices, and is easier to debug. Unfortunately, convincing Palm and the other manufacturers to do this---or to help get the Simulator working under Wine---is a much harder task than just buying a new device. > > I have also been accumulating Palm Bucks. If I get enough, I > > would even be willing to part with my dear, trusty old m130 if > > your interested... That might be a useful thing to have, although what would be more useful would be a device that supports high resolution. That's what's proving hardest to debug because the Emulator does not support it. > > But I think putting up a donate link might be the way to go. Not > > sure what the sourceforge rules are on this. > > What are your thoughts? SourceForge sent me mail a while ago strongly encouraging me to put up such a link. My thought was that we are too loosely organized to make use of such a donation right now. Equipment would be a possible use, but I'm not sure if it would be a good use of funds. Paying for a couple PalmSource trouble tickets might be another use that would serve us well in the future when we run into devlopment brick walls. > From: hol...@di... [mailto:hol...@di...] > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 8:04 AM > > Donations? A definite NO!! This is an OpenSource program! I'm not as strongly against the idea as this. There may be points in the future where it would be useful, but probably not right now. > Whom should such a donation go to? I think the better question is for what, not for whom. If a donation of money or used equipment would improve the rate of development, I wouldn't argue against it. I'm just not sure it would right now. > It would be unfair if the 'old' programmers, who are not > active anymore, but on whose ideas this great program is > based on, do not benefit from such 'donations'. Well, if the donation is of testing equipment, I'd think it would be quite fair if it would go to anyone who is willing to commit to using it for increased testing. If that would either attract new people, or reinvolve old ones, I don't see much of a problem with fairness. > The best 'donation' that one can give is one's own time > by helping out. > There are many ways of helping out - Beta-Testing is the > easiest - one can make databases available that one > has made - one can help out with icons etc. I'd agree that this is absolutely true. Time is certainly my limiting factor right now. The testers that have been helping with the alpha-releases have helped things go a lot faster. > THIS is what is required - upholding the spirit of > OpenSource programs!! This is more precious than money! On the other hand, there are people (as stated above) who would like to help with development but currently have more money than time available to them. If that money could help the development, then it would be a valuable gift. But right now what we need most is more involvement on the development side, and I'm not sure the money could be put to a good enough use. But I wouldn't eliminate the idea. --nate |
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