From: Dave W. <ka...@us...> - 2004-09-25 01:29:52
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Ok, so this is the second set of screenshots for the UI designs that I've worked on. This is actual working code right now for the screenshots, things that don't work are noted below. I also pseudo-implemented Sean's design for the status menu at the bottom of the buddy list. It's definitely not as pretty as his design and so far, it's just the menu. I also have some signals hooked up: I can mark all accounts online or away...for some reason offline doesn't work correctly just yet. ---- http://unleashed.org/devel/gaim_status_expanded.jpg This is the expanded form that I've been thinking about. Basically all of the accounts represented in a single-parent, highly dysfunctional GtkTree. All of the status icons change with the status; evenutally each of these will look much like a buddy list entry in the sense that available/away messages will show below the name as well as idle time, if applicable. Buddy icons display on the far right, just like the buddy list; my accounts don't have icons right now so they don't show up. None of the menus or tooltips are set for the extended pane yet; except for reflecting status changes in the icon on the left it's a static display. ---- http://unleashed.org/devel/gaim_status_collapsed.jpg This is the collapsed view. In looking through the status UI thread and looking at the status dropdown, I wanted a more brief way of looking at status-at-a-glance. After talking briefly with a user who suggested using another graphical form (and telling them I thought the idea may get shot down, [and I'm sorry that I forgot your name, you should get credit for the idea]), I bring you this to possibly shoot down :) Each account's icon, with status and proper fades is represented in this pane. I would like to apply tooltips and menus to each icon, the same tooltip and menus that are available in the expanded list, but that is not coded yet. The tooltip is more important in this case so that individual accounts can be found/seen status without having to expand the statuses. ---- I think the mouse behavior between the collapsed and expanded form should be consistent. If I right click or left click on an icon in the collapsed view, it should do the same thing as the expanded view. Here's the way I think those things should work/behave. None of this is built yet, just expounding on thought. Please note that when I use 'widget,' I mean either the icon in the collapsed view or the account in the expanded view. - The tooltip behaves similar to the buddy list. Mouse over the widget the tooltip appears. Leave the geography of that widget, it goes away. - Double left-clicking a widget will produce the account editor. - Right-clicking a widget will produce a context menu. On this menu will be: - status submenu - buddy icon submenu - load icon - clear icon - (wishlist) keep the last 5 used buddy icons - separator - the items from the 'account action' menu - The idea of using a left click to open a menu appeals to me somewhat, since that's the primary operation that users know. An issue that comes to mind about usability; unless we make the icons in the account list buttons (as the collapsed view is), a user may be surprised to find a menu popping up when left clicking on something that they've experienced to work in a different way (e.g. the buddy list). I'm not sure if I would use this for that reason. If we implemented it that way, we'd want to change the buddy list to follow so that the interface is consistent. Although, I also realize that I may have misread that part of the thread...if I have, I apologize. ---- I've got a patch against CVS HEAD for all that I've talked about right now except for the menus and tooltips. It works, though it still has some significant issues. Enjoy, --dw |
From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2004-09-25 01:48:15
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On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:29:41 -0700, Dave West <ka...@us...> wrote: > Ok, so this is the second set of screenshots for the UI designs that > I've worked on. This is actual working code right now for the > screenshots, things that don't work are noted below. REJECTED outright for actually using Comic Sans. -s. |
From: Ka-Hing C. <ja...@ja...> - 2004-09-25 02:30:36
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Some suggestions... On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 18:29, Dave West wrote: > ---- > > http://unleashed.org/devel/gaim_status_expanded.jpg > This is the expanded form that I've been thinking about. Basically all > of the accounts represented in a single-parent, highly dysfunctional > GtkTree. All of the status icons change with the status; evenutally each > of these will look much like a buddy list entry in the sense that > available/away messages will show below the name as well as idle time, > if applicable. Buddy icons display on the far right, just like the buddy > list; my accounts don't have icons right now so they don't show up. None > of the menus or tooltips are set for the extended pane yet; except for > reflecting status changes in the icon on the left it's a static display. > How do you get to this expanded state? Also, while in this state, what's the use of the status menu? From what you says below it seems like status is changed by a popup menu. I think that if you move the menu up the right below the actually buddylist, and maybe prepend the word "Status", that will make the separation of the two lists more apparent. Somehow I am not too fond of the idea of using a popup menu to choose the status. > http://unleashed.org/devel/gaim_status_collapsed.jpg > This is the collapsed view. In looking through the status UI thread and > looking at the status dropdown, I wanted a more brief way of looking at > status-at-a-glance. After talking briefly with a user who suggested > using another graphical form (and telling them I thought the idea may > get shot down, [and I'm sorry that I forgot your name, you should get > credit for the idea]), I bring you this to possibly shoot down :) > > Each account's icon, with status and proper fades is represented in this > pane. I would like to apply tooltips and menus to each icon, the same > tooltip and menus that are available in the expanded list, but that is > not coded yet. The tooltip is more important in this case so that > individual accounts can be found/seen status without having to expand > the statuses. I say get rid of the scrollbar, and only show the first N accounts that would fit in one row, possible with ellipses if some of them aren't shown. Accounts that are online would be shown before those that are offline if space is limited. It's unlikely that most users would have enough accounts to warrant a scrollbar, and those people can use the expanded view (again it's not obvious as how to get toe expanded view). Okay I think I know what the status menu is for now, does it change all the account status at once? I suggest that the menu doesn't try to display a summary of current status, since it would be confusing and inconsistent if one of the account's status is changed. So the menu would normally say "Change global status", and if one of the accounts is selected in the expanded view, then change it to reflect the status of the current status account (but then how do you unselect an account so the "Change global status" is shown again?). An alternative way to handle too many accounts is to force multiple rows. I actually like this better than what I've said above. The unexpanded view is to let people to have a quick glimpse of the current status, and making people scroll doesn't quite fit the goal. > > ---- > > I think the mouse behavior between the collapsed and expanded form > should be consistent. If I right click or left click on an icon in the > collapsed view, it should do the same thing as the expanded view. > > Here's the way I think those things should work/behave. None of this is > built yet, just expounding on thought. Please note that when I use > 'widget,' I mean either the icon in the collapsed view or the account in > the expanded view. > > - The tooltip behaves similar to the buddy list. Mouse over the widget > the tooltip appears. Leave the geography of that widget, it goes away. > - Double left-clicking a widget will produce the account editor. > - Right-clicking a widget will produce a context menu. On this menu will be: > - status submenu > - buddy icon submenu > - load icon > - clear icon > - (wishlist) keep the last 5 used buddy icons > - separator > - the items from the 'account action' menu Do people change their buddy icon often? If not I don't think a menu item is necessary. Drag and drop should work pretty well. > > - The idea of using a left click to open a menu appeals to me somewhat, > since that's the primary operation that users know. An issue that comes > to mind about usability; unless we make the icons in the account list > buttons (as the collapsed view is), a user may be surprised to find a > menu popping up when left clicking on something that they've experienced > to work in a different way (e.g. the buddy list). I'm not sure if I > would use this for that reason. If we implemented it that way, we'd want > to change the buddy list to follow so that the interface is consistent. > Although, I also realize that I may have misread that part of the > thread...if I have, I apologize. What if the little bar is changed to use a GtkTreeView so that individual icons are selectable? That way changing status can be the same as the expanded view as I suggested above. The popup menu would also only be flat to only include account actions. -khc |
From: Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...> - 2004-09-25 04:31:22
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Dave West spake unto us the following wisdom: > http://unleashed.org/devel/gaim_status_collapsed.jpg > This is the collapsed view. In looking through the status UI thread and= =20 > looking at the status dropdown, I wanted a more brief way of looking at= =20 > status-at-a-glance. After talking briefly with a user who suggested=20 > using another graphical form (and telling them I thought the idea may=20 > get shot down, [and I'm sorry that I forgot your name, you should get=20 > credit for the idea]), I bring you this to possibly shoot down :) Consider it shot down. This particular interface has been suggested by quite a few people (in fact, enough that I suspect that another 3rd party multiprotocol client with a (rumored-to-be) singularly horrible UI must implement it), and I think it's terrible. I think it's terrible enough to fight tooth-and-nail against its inclusion. To justify this a little (although I think it needs none): 1) It doesn't actually provide enough information to really be useful, and would have to rely on tooltips/dialogs/something, which I think we should avoid. And no, just remembering which account is where doesn't cut it. 2) There's a lot of clutter there, and a lot of small targets. As many readers are aware, an important aspect of UI design is making inter- active components as effectively large as possible; note that "effec- tively large" and "actually large" are somewhat different, see the various justifications for Macintosh-style menus. 3) In the end, it doesn't avoid the space problem, it just pushes it off a little farther. Sean's idea (that is, some sort of global single- selection status) kills it entirely, ensuring that the entire status of all accounts can be represented in some meaningful fashion in a fixed amount of space. As your mockup suggests, the little-row-of- ugly-icons method is vulnerable to scrolling etc. 4) ... insert your own valid reasons here. Ethan --=20 The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764 |
From: Kevin M S. <ke...@si...> - 2004-09-25 04:52:25
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Ethan Blanton wrote: > Dave West spake unto us the following wisdom: > >>http://unleashed.org/devel/gaim_status_collapsed.jpg >>This is the collapsed view. In looking through the status UI thread and >>looking at the status dropdown, I wanted a more brief way of looking at >>status-at-a-glance. After talking briefly with a user who suggested >>using another graphical form (and telling them I thought the idea may >>get shot down, [and I'm sorry that I forgot your name, you should get >>credit for the idea]), I bring you this to possibly shoot down :) > > > Consider it shot down. This particular interface has been suggested by > quite a few people (in fact, enough that I suspect that another 3rd > party multiprotocol client with a (rumored-to-be) singularly horrible UI > must implement it), and I think it's terrible. I think it's terrible > enough to fight tooth-and-nail against its inclusion. > I was originally for the row of icons, but mainly because I wanted something at a glance. For five accounts, a row like that's not horrible, but for 30, it really reeks of bad UI. With that expandable area that's being discussed now, or just about anything that I can get to in one or two clicks and get a clear snapshot of my accounts' different statuses, I will be happy, and I think most others will be too. For my sister, that expandable area will never be expanded, and I think that UI is best to present as the predominant status selection method. Kevin |
From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2004-09-25 18:14:10
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On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:29:41 -0700, Dave West <ka...@us...> wrote: > http://unleashed.org/devel/gaim_status_expanded.jpg > This is the expanded form that I've been thinking about. Basically all > of the accounts represented in a single-parent, highly dysfunctional > GtkTree. All of the status icons change with the status; evenutally each > of these will look much like a buddy list entry in the sense that > available/away messages will show below the name as well as idle time, > if applicable. Buddy icons display on the far right, just like the buddy > list; my accounts don't have icons right now so they don't show up. None > of the menus or tooltips are set for the extended pane yet; except for > reflecting status changes in the icon on the left it's a static display. I think all the talk of this type of UI, with a huge accounts list in the buddy list should stop. It's really bad. I can't look at it for more than 20 seconds without diverting my eyes (but that's probably just because you actually use Comic Sans). Do a spot usability test. Send that screenshot to someone you know, with no explanation, and say "what's that list on the bottom do?" If anyone can honestly send me a transcript of someone saying, "oh, well it represents all my accounts, and if I right click on one, I can change the status of it," maybe I'll put some consideration into it. |
From: Tim R. <om...@ho...> - 2004-09-25 23:38:18
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Sean Egan wrote: >I think all the talk of this type of UI, with a huge accounts list in >the buddy list should stop. It's really bad. I can't look at it for >more than 20 seconds without diverting my eyes (but that's probably >just because you actually use Comic Sans). > So then, how should you be able to tell that, for example, when you entered that custom away message and that gaim dude is doing his preoccupied pose, that your MSN account doesn't actually have your message set for it, and the Yahoo one makes you look like a moron because it's truncated and has a %n in it that only expands on AIM? >Do a spot usability test. Send that screenshot to someone you know, >with no explanation, and say "what's that list on the bottom do?" If >anyone can honestly send me a transcript of someone saying, "oh, well >it represents all my accounts, and if I right click on one, I can >change the status of it," maybe I'll put some consideration into it. > Wasn't it supposed to expand from the global status thing though? I'm not sure how Dave have that implemented right now. A list of accounts that expands from the global status bar might make it more obvious what they're far than just seeing a screenshot of it already done. --Tim |
From: Ka-Hing C. <ja...@ja...> - 2004-09-25 19:26:53
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On Sat, 2004-09-25 at 11:14, Sean Egan wrote: > Do a spot usability test. Send that screenshot to someone you know, > with no explanation, and say "what's that list on the bottom do?" If > anyone can honestly send me a transcript of someone saying, "oh, well > it represents all my accounts, and if I right click on one, I can > change the status of it," maybe I'll put some consideration into it. Out of curiosity I did exactly that, the target is my brother. He knows what gaim is, but doesn't use it, nor does he know about status rewrite: (11:58:46) Me: http://unleashed.org/devel/gaim_status_expanded.jpg (11:59:10) Me: What do you think the list on the bottom is, and what does it do? (11:59:26) Him: loading......... (12:00:21) Him: contacts under that group? (12:00:30) Me: no (12:00:50) Him: important buddies? (12:01:04) Me: Hmm hint (12:01:09) Him: or recently-IMed? (12:01:23) Me: replace those with <his screenname>, <his icq> (12:02:09) Him: ar... 2 icq accounts... (12:02:32) Him: that's pretty meaningless... (12:02:43) Me: So what do you think the list represent? (12:03:00) Him: own-accounts [So it seems like he would have no problem figuring out that it's his account list] (12:03:03) Me: Right (12:03:34) Me: What do you think the list may also do, other than showing you the accounts? (12:06:02) Him: hmmmmmmmmm (12:06:30) Him: blacklist? (12:06:44) Me: What's a blacklist for accounts? (12:07:00) Him: ban yourself haha (12:07:11) Him: dis/connect your accounts? (12:07:29) Me: Close (12:07:50) Him: show/hide corresponding buddy list? (12:08:03) Me: You were close (12:08:23) Him: add/remove? (12:08:28) Me: Nope (12:09:11) Him: status change? (12:09:16) Me: Yup (12:09:43) Him: dis/connect implies status change (12:09:56) Me: True (12:14:23) Me: How would you change the status using the list? (12:15:05) Him: single/double/triple/left/middle/right click This test may not be very accurate, since I pasted him the URL and he told me he noticed the URL says "status", and so what the list does is quite obvious. Lesson of the day, upload the file under a new name before showing it to people... -khc |
From: John B. S. <joh...@gm...> - 2004-09-26 00:31:19
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:26:53 -0700, Ka-Hing Cheung <ja...@ja...> wrote: > On Sat, 2004-09-25 at 11:14, Sean Egan wrote: > > Do a spot usability test. Send that screenshot to someone you know, > > with no explanation, and say "what's that list on the bottom do?" If > > anyone can honestly send me a transcript of someone saying, "oh, well > > it represents all my accounts, and if I right click on one, I can > > change the status of it," maybe I'll put some consideration into it. > > Out of curiosity I did exactly that, the target is my brother. He knows > what gaim is, but doesn't use it, nor does he know about status rewrite: [snip] > This test may not be very accurate, since I pasted him the URL and he > told me he noticed the URL says "status", and so what the list does is > quite obvious. Lesson of the day, upload the file under a new name > before showing it to people... So it was said, and so it has been tried out in a simpler manner with a friend of mine: (16:59:36) Me: hey. If you're around, I'd appreciate it if you gave me some feedback on a possible Gaim tweak: http://knuth.mville.edu/~john/gaim/smoketest1.jpg Just give me your initial thoughts on what you're seeing/what it's for... (16:59:38) Him<AUTO-REPLY> : [snip] (19:09:15) Him what is it a tweak for different buddy list groups or something? [I was away at the time - acutallly away, no less] Really - if you look at the top box, and the highlighting, this is the obvious deduction. Now, as Tim said, it would probably be clearer if this came up from this status bar thingy, but still, I think it overly complicates things. Oh, and frankly, I hate Mozilla sidebars - I do everything in my power to get rid of interfaces that get in the way of full use of an application. P.S. He just came back, and after discussing it a bit, he finally got what it was supposed to do. He did point out that it's a little tricky to make out, based on there only being one name shown in the top half - it sort of confuses the matter. Also that the "(AIM/ICQ)" or "(IRC)" stuff is redundant if there's an icon. |
From: Evan S. <ev...@dr...> - 2004-09-25 22:03:00
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> [So it seems like he would have no problem figuring out that it's his > account list] > That was a lot of questions to identify what the list did, though. > (12:03:03) Me: Right > (12:03:34) Me: What do you think the list may also do, other than > showing you the accounts? > (12:06:02) Him: hmmmmmmmmm > (12:06:30) Him: blacklist? > (12:06:44) Me: What's a blacklist for accounts? > (12:07:00) Him: ban yourself haha > (12:07:11) Him: dis/connect your accounts? > (12:07:29) Me: Close > (12:07:50) Him: show/hide corresponding buddy list? > (12:08:03) Me: You were close > (12:08:23) Him: add/remove? > (12:08:28) Me: Nope > (12:09:11) Him: status change? > (12:09:16) Me: Yup > (12:09:43) Him: dis/connect implies status change > (12:09:56) Me: True > Again, a fair number of questions, from someone who is being prompted to think about it; if the UI is good a user really shouldn't have to make an effort to understand what a given control does. > (12:14:23) Me: How would you change the status using the list? > (12:15:05) Him: single/double/triple/left/middle/right click > So he successfully determined that a GUI control should somehow be interacted with via the mouse in some form? :) -Evan |
From: Luke S. <lsc...@us...> - 2004-09-25 23:24:28
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On Sat, Sep 25, 2004 at 05:02:29PM -0500, Evan Schoenberg wrote: > > >[So it seems like he would have no problem figuring out that it's his > >account list] > > > That was a lot of questions to identify what the list did, though. to identify the personal sns of someone the person being spot tested doesn't know. > > >(12:03:03) Me: Right > >(12:03:34) Me: What do you think the list may also do, other than > >showing you the accounts? > >(12:06:02) Him: hmmmmmmmmm > >(12:06:30) Him: blacklist? > >(12:06:44) Me: What's a blacklist for accounts? > >(12:07:00) Him: ban yourself haha > >(12:07:11) Him: dis/connect your accounts? > >(12:07:29) Me: Close > >(12:07:50) Him: show/hide corresponding buddy list? > >(12:08:03) Me: You were close > >(12:08:23) Him: add/remove? > >(12:08:28) Me: Nope > >(12:09:11) Him: status change? > >(12:09:16) Me: Yup > >(12:09:43) Him: dis/connect implies status change > >(12:09:56) Me: True > > > Again, a fair number of questions, from someone who is being prompted > to think about it; if the UI is good a user really shouldn't have to > make an effort to understand what a given control does. > > >(12:14:23) Me: How would you change the status using the list? > >(12:15:05) Him: single/double/triple/left/middle/right click > > > So he successfully determined that a GUI control should somehow be > interacted with via the mouse in some form? :) > > -Evan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: YOU BE THE JUDGE. Be one of 170 > Project Admins to receive an Apple iPod Mini FREE for your judgement on > who ports your project to Linux PPC the best. Sponsored by IBM. > Deadline: Sept. 24. Go here: http://sf.net/ppc_contest.php > _______________________________________________ > Gaim-devel mailing list > Gai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gaim-devel |
From: Ka-Hing C. <ja...@ja...> - 2004-09-26 02:26:19
|
On Sat, 2004-09-25 at 15:02, Evan Schoenberg wrote: > > [So it seems like he would have no problem figuring out that it's his > > account list] > > > That was a lot of questions to identify what the list did, though. If the list shows his accounts, I think it would be a lot more obvious. > So he successfully determined that a GUI control should somehow be > interacted with via the mouse in some form? :) You need to read what he said next :-) (12:15:39) Him: or select and mouse scroll (12:15:49) Him: +hot keys -khc |