Re: [Gaim-i18n] Re: Bad language in Gaim

[Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...>]

Bjoern Voigt spake unto us the following wisdom:
> >I think we're wasting a lot of time here to come to the conclusion that=
=20
> >some strings are just hard to translate.  :-P
> > =20
> I can partially agree with your conclusion. But what is your suggested=20
> action?

Please read my previous emails.  I spent quite some time composing them.

> Do nothing (no additional context information - comments in the source,=
=20
> no string changes etc.)? If yes, not Syd Logan is the lazy bum, but=20
> Ethan Blanton. You can also call people "conservative" which are not=20
> willing to make changes. ;-)

This comment is quite unfair to me, as you should know if you have been
following this thread.  I sent quite a long reply to one of your
previous emails asking precisely how we can help, and suggesting that
we should perhaps make a more concerted effort to comment strings
which have caused translators difficulty in the past.  To then turn
around and suggest that I want to do nothing because I am either a
lazy bum or too "conservative" is rather offensive to me, and
reinforces my belief that this whole thread is about whining, not
fixing things.  I *want* to help fix things -- your original email
said "we need to change these strings, they're {hard to
translate,unbusinesslike,whatever}", and I pushed back against that
saying "these strings are OK, there may be bad strings, but these
aren't they ... how can we make this better?"  This seems perfectly
reasonable to me.

> Read again what Clytie Siddall, Ambrose Li, Isriya Paireepairit, Vincas=
=20
> =C4=8Ci=C5=BEi=C5=ABnas and me sgested to change.

I saw no specific constructive suggestions for change, except you
wanting to remove cultural references, jokes, and flavor from Gaim.
Forgive me if I missed something.

I think it is clear (at this point) that there should be a comment in
the psychic plugin explaining in some abstract sense what a
disturbance in the force is, a comment in the TOC plugin explaining
that TOC is a protocol and the TOC plugin is no longer compiled (I
believe the latter is already in place?), and a comment above the
butterflies mating that indicates that that string is nonsensical and
need not be translated.  Other than that, what we need to solve are
*technical* problems with the process, which is what several
developers have tried to come around to and been ignored.  This
situation isn't going to get better if there isn't give and take,
here.

I think the most immediate solution which presents itself is to have
comments inserted in the source near strings which prove to be
problematic; if, after examination, it appears that the strings are
needlessly complicated, we can make an effort to change them on a
case-by-case basis.  A beneficial step in this direction may be for
translation clarification questions to be asked on this list (some
have been, in the past) so that other translators and developers are
aware that the questions have been asked.  This might also give us a
feel for which phrases are actually generally difficult to translate,
and which phrases may just run across an unfortunate idiom in a
particular target language.

Ethan

--=20
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
for evils].  They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
determined to commit crimes.
		-- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764