Maybe in the next version of GAIM we could have Skype support because a lot of people these days use skype and I think many here, including me would enjoy this!
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Ack. I use skype and would like to consolidate my clients, and I have about a dozen in my circle of close friends who'd also benefit from being able to consolidate and uninstall the official skype app. It's cute, if too big and unshrinkable to desirable levels, but it's /extra/.
Once VV gets into Gaim and Gaimers can talk to GoogleTalkers, skype becomes recyclable. Gaim has the choice now of either considering compatibility with yet another proprietary protocol or rendering it obsolete. I'd like to see the latter, personally, since it furthers the advancement of the open standard by not prolonging the believed-relevance of another walled-garden app, but I just can't get my mom to use GTalk over skype.
And don't ask my mom to code skype support into Gaim, okay? She may play Halo but she's 52. It's where the "anyone can code anything into anything" chant, used by open source people to protect themselves from feeling encouraged and inspired by their amazing magical coding powers and a desire to help their fellow man, falls a bit short.
Now, if we were ALL 22, geniuses with sockets and C and in possession of more time than children or mortgages, we'd all be on an equal footing and able to add in this week's protocol should the whim strike us. And I'd still have two wishes left on that lamp. One, after I wished for the destruction of all forums. Sadly, I'm still old and tired, I'm still writing a forum message in an 'editor' which was obsolete before the 1200bps modem, and there will be no skype on gaim for my mom; silc maybe, but no skype. Magic lamp my ass.
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You do realize that most (if not all) of the gaim developers have full time jobs, none of which are working on gaim, right? You also realize that at least one (and probably closer to four or five) of the gaim developers/contributors learned C by working on gaim, that is they didn't know C before touching gaim. And finally, the open source "chant" as you put it isn't "anyone can code anything into anything" it is "I will code what I want into what I can" which has as a corollary "if you want me to do something for you you can wait until I feel like doing it". So, until and unless you start paying people to do the things you want them to do, be happy that you get to use anything they write at all, because they really didn't have to let you.
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Would that this UI was more usable, I had a longer reply for someone to read exactly half of and flip a reply out.
Oddly enough, the 'you do it' and 'sit down and wait for me to get around to it' responses are really quite prominent in any discussion of Big Corp vs Open Source.
I'll suggest my mom fund two hours of your development time rather than a week of her retirement, and suggest she learn C as well.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm sorry to get you so worked up, especially when I thought I was mostly in agreement with you. Never happen again.
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Ok, so that's already three of you who like and use skype and want gaim to support it. I believe that's larger than the number of developers who think about skype at all, and probably smaller than the number of developers who don't like skype.
All that aside, gaim does not take on new protocols at this point unless one of the active developers cares about it and is going to maintain it. That is not the case with skype. A third-party protocol plugin for gaim is easy to do and a number exist already, feel free to gather up a team of people and work on one for yourselves, it is not going to happen in gaim itself unless things change immensely.
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deryni9 im beginning to think that all our requests can be responded like that. "If you want that just go and write a plugin or something". You make me want to join gaim developers.
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That's *exactly* the point, good job rrr-jr. The whole point of open source is that if someone wants a feature they can make it happen. If they want to wait and trust that someone else will do it for them they can, if they don't want to wait they don't have to. So yes, many requests are going to be answered with 'go write a plugin or something' because you can. Many requests will get honored, some much more quickly than others, some requests will never get honored by the developers, that's the way this stuff works.
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People who want something and can't do it for themselves fall squarely into the "If they want to wait and trust that someone else will do it for them they can" group, which means you wait for someone who can do it to do it because they want to, you find and pay someone who can do it to do it, or you learn how to do it yourself and do it.
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for me it would be perfectly enough to have text-chat capability, as of if i like to use voice/video/sms/call-phone i use other (cheaper) services anyhow, but skype is installed on every pc in every internet-cafe on the entire planet, so it is important that my friends can contact me with it (text only)
so nut shell:
text chat = YES!
buddy list = yes, but i would use it even with out
file transfer = OK,not so important
VOICE/VIDEO = No need
sms = No need
anything else = No need
i would even settle for a plug in that logs me in skype, i do not even have my skype buddy list, just people see me online and can send me messages where i can respond
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Well I would have followed your advice long time ago if I would have the time or knowledge of joining gaim's development team, so since I don't all i'm gona do is ask from time to time.
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deryni9, quit being an open source snob. Most regular people do not have the knowledge to develop for Gaim. But they do like the project, and they only want to express their ideas on how it could be better. Even if you don't agree, you could at least give helpful advice instead of telling him to do it himself.
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We do know that there are people who would like skype support, but it is outside of the scope of what we would like to do at this time.
deryni just indicated that even though we have no intention of adding support for skype through a built-in protocol plugin, that doesn't prevent someone who is interested and able from doing so.
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Where exactly was I being an "open source snob"? What "helpful advice" would you like me to give him? I've already explained that none of the current developers (myself included) care about skype, and are therefore not going to work on it. Would you like me to tell him something other than go do it yourself? Would you like to me to say that he is shit out of luck? Please enlighten me as to what "useful advice" I can give people about this topic?
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Well, I'm with Skype and it does annoy me that I have to have Skype plus Gaim open at the same time. I've been thinking about whether to do some development work for Gaim in order to incorporate Skype.
However, there are a few things I would like to point out:
(1) I am currently involved in another "open source" programming project. This is more 'urgent' than getting Skype to work on Gaim. I don't know how long it will take me to finish this project.
(2) What parts of Skype do people want incorporated into Gaim? Is it just the chat messaging, like what Gaim can now do using SIP? Or do people want voice and video as well (both of which Gaim can't do using SIP?). If people do what voice and video as well, I would probably consider waiting for Gaim-vv to be incorporated into Gaim. This would then give me an idea of how I would code Skype vv into Gaim. But I suppose putting vv into the next major version of Gaim is the plan.
(3) The reason I am with Skype is because other people wanted VoIP. However, SIP is also being considered. I don't know whether voice over SIP should be put into Gaim. I may instead decide to have a go at coding SIP into Gaim (as a plugin?) as a priority over Skype instead.
(4) I am more of a coder than a hacker. So, can anybody point me into what the Skype protocol is? From what I can tell it is a bit odd ball in that it is more peer to peer. It uses serveral other Skype users in order to get the voice over? I suppose it is not surprising Skype works this way considering that they hired Kazaa people to do some coding. This is where SIP has an advantage over Skype. SIP is an open protocol.
(5) I will be programming in my "free time." (i.e. whenever I have enough motivation).
So, overall, I can't guarentee anything. Though I could do it.
Thanks,
Gervase.
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Hey, I see lotsa "GIMME GIMME" syndrome here. Gaim should do this - Gaim should add that for "us"
How about get Skype off their arse instead & push Skype to play ball by adopting one of the existing protocols that Gaim already supports & that means allowing Gaim to move forward & expand its upcoming voice & Googletalk interoperability for one.
Skype has long been a greedy pain in the arse & by their own wording they "painted themselves into a corner"
So let Skype fix Skypes ( biggest ) problem PROPRIETARY - ding ding.
C'mon guys, play fair, it's not up to Gaim to fix the world because you chose to support a PROPRIETARY based product.
Now - off you go - & tell Skype to change their attitude ( I think it's may be already happening if you listen enough ) to become compatible with the rest of the world.
Meanwhile Gaim - carry on Guys - I'm certain you have far more real issues to attend than carrying yet another unecessary burden ( at least at this point in time anyway)
"All good things come to those who wait"
I'm waiting for voice on Gaim ( & Linux ) & is that a "jingle" I hear somewhere in the background as well? ;-)
.
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good luck with convincing skype/ebay to un-PROPRIETARY skype : )
gaim = cool
ebay/skype = lame
its not a "GIMME GIMME" thing, i think is just letting you guys know what we really like to have, so i can finally once for all uninstall that junk skype from my pc yet not lose connectivity to other skype users
if you like it better i do a "PLEASE PLEASE" : )
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1. siiix - you are seriously deluded if you think every internet cafe in the world has skype. maybe in your country it does...
2. notakid - do remember that skype is a peer to peer system. if you were able to use skype with Pidgin you would not be contributing your CPU and bandwidth to the Skype network. This is why Skype uses a closed protocol. Yes their program is "free", but they use half your computer & connection for the privilege. Its bloatware.
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re luminouslemo: dude i do not know where you from, but i travel a lot, yet i have to see a place with out skype, i mean i was even in a tiny village middle of the Brazilian jungle (not sure the name we had to a take a boat from French Guyana-st.george), we had to get there with a boat in January 2007 they had a little internet place (don’t ask me where the hell they get internet, i was surprised my self) even there every damn PC had skype installed, currently I live in Barcelona witch has massive amounts of tourists, in fact I rent rooms to tourists, so in short what I can tell you except the middle east and Africa I was like everywhere and still travel several times a year and trust me I use the internet everywhere and I’m no “HHilton” turist rater a backpacker… even the places witch are not primary designed for tourist like in the US Cyber-Gaming places most computers have it installed anywhere I went. so I’m curious where do you live where internet-cafe’s and a like do not have skype ????
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and in re to "CPU and bandwidth to the Skype network"
that might be true , but skype only needs that bandwidth do to voice and/or video data transfer, and we do not need that, all most of us want is text chat
and actually i think for linux there is already a a multi massager that has this, so its far from impossible, i cant try it as i do not have linux but supposed to "Kopete" has skype with out skype running in the background from what i read
i live in the philippines and most of the internet cafes i go in don't have skype. some of the national chains in the malls have it. yahoo on the other hand is rampant and i see more people making voice calls on yahoo than skype (even though yahoo is not as good in that respect).
on the cpu and bandwidth issue, i'm almost sure im correct - skype uses your cpu and bandwidth not only for the calls and chats you make, but also to help other users (hence its a p2p network). ever noticed how silly your cpu goes when running a torrent program. its the same principle with the skype client but i guess not so drastic. when i have run skype it just hogs everything... nasty.
its interesting to see that miranda and trilian can interact with skype, but only if the skype client is running.... so what exactly is the point in that?
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ok well in the Philippines i haven't been yet, but in Thailand and Singapore i was already, most tourists like to use skype because SIP messengers are new and most people do not know about it yet, yahoo and msn i do not even know if you can use to call real phones, but the main reason tourists are using skype is the phone function
bandwith / CPU-usage:
although it sounds it could be right somehow i think you might have a different issue with the performance, just about 100% of the time i have bitlord (torrent) or emule running, now of course i restrict the bandwidth they use to around 25% of max i have available but i do not restrict CPU time those task/programs use
and although one those programs run in the background i see no performance drop when i play performance intensive games like : barrlefield2/2142, quake wars and alike
now i have an average CPU nothing fancy for todays standards : P dual 3.1ghtz with 32bit xp and 2gig ram.. but i do not see the performance drop you talking about on P2P, and on skype i see none
its easy to test just run game with out and see what frames / seconds you get and then repeat with running skype and/or p/2
as well its easy just get a bandwidth monitoring tool and see if skype is doing something idling or in chat, on my computer it does nothing (even version 3.5)
my issue with skype is that its like 30mb task ruining my available memory and it adds 100's of unnecessary entries to the registry, as well that its annoying ruining several messengers at once
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Maybe in the next version of GAIM we could have Skype support because a lot of people these days use skype and I think many here, including me would enjoy this!
That would be really nice ...
ACK, i use Skype, too.
Ack. I use skype and would like to consolidate my clients, and I have about a dozen in my circle of close friends who'd also benefit from being able to consolidate and uninstall the official skype app. It's cute, if too big and unshrinkable to desirable levels, but it's /extra/.
Once VV gets into Gaim and Gaimers can talk to GoogleTalkers, skype becomes recyclable. Gaim has the choice now of either considering compatibility with yet another proprietary protocol or rendering it obsolete. I'd like to see the latter, personally, since it furthers the advancement of the open standard by not prolonging the believed-relevance of another walled-garden app, but I just can't get my mom to use GTalk over skype.
And don't ask my mom to code skype support into Gaim, okay? She may play Halo but she's 52. It's where the "anyone can code anything into anything" chant, used by open source people to protect themselves from feeling encouraged and inspired by their amazing magical coding powers and a desire to help their fellow man, falls a bit short.
Now, if we were ALL 22, geniuses with sockets and C and in possession of more time than children or mortgages, we'd all be on an equal footing and able to add in this week's protocol should the whim strike us. And I'd still have two wishes left on that lamp. One, after I wished for the destruction of all forums. Sadly, I'm still old and tired, I'm still writing a forum message in an 'editor' which was obsolete before the 1200bps modem, and there will be no skype on gaim for my mom; silc maybe, but no skype. Magic lamp my ass.
You do realize that most (if not all) of the gaim developers have full time jobs, none of which are working on gaim, right? You also realize that at least one (and probably closer to four or five) of the gaim developers/contributors learned C by working on gaim, that is they didn't know C before touching gaim. And finally, the open source "chant" as you put it isn't "anyone can code anything into anything" it is "I will code what I want into what I can" which has as a corollary "if you want me to do something for you you can wait until I feel like doing it". So, until and unless you start paying people to do the things you want them to do, be happy that you get to use anything they write at all, because they really didn't have to let you.
Would that this UI was more usable, I had a longer reply for someone to read exactly half of and flip a reply out.
Oddly enough, the 'you do it' and 'sit down and wait for me to get around to it' responses are really quite prominent in any discussion of Big Corp vs Open Source.
I'll suggest my mom fund two hours of your development time rather than a week of her retirement, and suggest she learn C as well.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm sorry to get you so worked up, especially when I thought I was mostly in agreement with you. Never happen again.
Ok, so that's already three of you who like and use skype and want gaim to support it. I believe that's larger than the number of developers who think about skype at all, and probably smaller than the number of developers who don't like skype.
All that aside, gaim does not take on new protocols at this point unless one of the active developers cares about it and is going to maintain it. That is not the case with skype. A third-party protocol plugin for gaim is easy to do and a number exist already, feel free to gather up a team of people and work on one for yourselves, it is not going to happen in gaim itself unless things change immensely.
deryni9 im beginning to think that all our requests can be responded like that. "If you want that just go and write a plugin or something". You make me want to join gaim developers.
That's *exactly* the point, good job rrr-jr. The whole point of open source is that if someone wants a feature they can make it happen. If they want to wait and trust that someone else will do it for them they can, if they don't want to wait they don't have to. So yes, many requests are going to be answered with 'go write a plugin or something' because you can. Many requests will get honored, some much more quickly than others, some requests will never get honored by the developers, that's the way this stuff works.
What about requests by people *without* any programming knowledge or experience?
People who want something and can't do it for themselves fall squarely into the "If they want to wait and trust that someone else will do it for them they can" group, which means you wait for someone who can do it to do it because they want to, you find and pay someone who can do it to do it, or you learn how to do it yourself and do it.
for me it would be perfectly enough to have text-chat capability, as of if i like to use voice/video/sms/call-phone i use other (cheaper) services anyhow, but skype is installed on every pc in every internet-cafe on the entire planet, so it is important that my friends can contact me with it (text only)
so nut shell:
text chat = YES!
buddy list = yes, but i would use it even with out
file transfer = OK,not so important
VOICE/VIDEO = No need
sms = No need
anything else = No need
i would even settle for a plug in that logs me in skype, i do not even have my skype buddy list, just people see me online and can send me messages where i can respond
Well I would have followed your advice long time ago if I would have the time or knowledge of joining gaim's development team, so since I don't all i'm gona do is ask from time to time.
deryni9, quit being an open source snob. Most regular people do not have the knowledge to develop for Gaim. But they do like the project, and they only want to express their ideas on how it could be better. Even if you don't agree, you could at least give helpful advice instead of telling him to do it himself.
There is no snobbery going on here.
We do know that there are people who would like skype support, but it is outside of the scope of what we would like to do at this time.
deryni just indicated that even though we have no intention of adding support for skype through a built-in protocol plugin, that doesn't prevent someone who is interested and able from doing so.
Where exactly was I being an "open source snob"? What "helpful advice" would you like me to give him? I've already explained that none of the current developers (myself included) care about skype, and are therefore not going to work on it. Would you like me to tell him something other than go do it yourself? Would you like to me to say that he is shit out of luck? Please enlighten me as to what "useful advice" I can give people about this topic?
Well, I'm with Skype and it does annoy me that I have to have Skype plus Gaim open at the same time. I've been thinking about whether to do some development work for Gaim in order to incorporate Skype.
However, there are a few things I would like to point out:
(1) I am currently involved in another "open source" programming project. This is more 'urgent' than getting Skype to work on Gaim. I don't know how long it will take me to finish this project.
(2) What parts of Skype do people want incorporated into Gaim? Is it just the chat messaging, like what Gaim can now do using SIP? Or do people want voice and video as well (both of which Gaim can't do using SIP?). If people do what voice and video as well, I would probably consider waiting for Gaim-vv to be incorporated into Gaim. This would then give me an idea of how I would code Skype vv into Gaim. But I suppose putting vv into the next major version of Gaim is the plan.
(3) The reason I am with Skype is because other people wanted VoIP. However, SIP is also being considered. I don't know whether voice over SIP should be put into Gaim. I may instead decide to have a go at coding SIP into Gaim (as a plugin?) as a priority over Skype instead.
(4) I am more of a coder than a hacker. So, can anybody point me into what the Skype protocol is? From what I can tell it is a bit odd ball in that it is more peer to peer. It uses serveral other Skype users in order to get the voice over? I suppose it is not surprising Skype works this way considering that they hired Kazaa people to do some coding. This is where SIP has an advantage over Skype. SIP is an open protocol.
(5) I will be programming in my "free time." (i.e. whenever I have enough motivation).
So, overall, I can't guarentee anything. Though I could do it.
Thanks,
Gervase.
just posting to point out i would use such a feature too.
Hey, I see lotsa "GIMME GIMME" syndrome here. Gaim should do this - Gaim should add that for "us"
How about get Skype off their arse instead & push Skype to play ball by adopting one of the existing protocols that Gaim already supports & that means allowing Gaim to move forward & expand its upcoming voice & Googletalk interoperability for one.
Skype has long been a greedy pain in the arse & by their own wording they "painted themselves into a corner"
So let Skype fix Skypes ( biggest ) problem PROPRIETARY - ding ding.
C'mon guys, play fair, it's not up to Gaim to fix the world because you chose to support a PROPRIETARY based product.
Now - off you go - & tell Skype to change their attitude ( I think it's may be already happening if you listen enough ) to become compatible with the rest of the world.
Meanwhile Gaim - carry on Guys - I'm certain you have far more real issues to attend than carrying yet another unecessary burden ( at least at this point in time anyway)
"All good things come to those who wait"
I'm waiting for voice on Gaim ( & Linux ) & is that a "jingle" I hear somewhere in the background as well? ;-)
.
good luck with convincing skype/ebay to un-PROPRIETARY skype : )
gaim = cool
ebay/skype = lame
its not a "GIMME GIMME" thing, i think is just letting you guys know what we really like to have, so i can finally once for all uninstall that junk skype from my pc yet not lose connectivity to other skype users
if you like it better i do a "PLEASE PLEASE" : )
couple of points:
1. siiix - you are seriously deluded if you think every internet cafe in the world has skype. maybe in your country it does...
2. notakid - do remember that skype is a peer to peer system. if you were able to use skype with Pidgin you would not be contributing your CPU and bandwidth to the Skype network. This is why Skype uses a closed protocol. Yes their program is "free", but they use half your computer & connection for the privilege. Its bloatware.
re luminouslemo: dude i do not know where you from, but i travel a lot, yet i have to see a place with out skype, i mean i was even in a tiny village middle of the Brazilian jungle (not sure the name we had to a take a boat from French Guyana-st.george), we had to get there with a boat in January 2007 they had a little internet place (don’t ask me where the hell they get internet, i was surprised my self) even there every damn PC had skype installed, currently I live in Barcelona witch has massive amounts of tourists, in fact I rent rooms to tourists, so in short what I can tell you except the middle east and Africa I was like everywhere and still travel several times a year and trust me I use the internet everywhere and I’m no “HHilton” turist rater a backpacker… even the places witch are not primary designed for tourist like in the US Cyber-Gaming places most computers have it installed anywhere I went. so I’m curious where do you live where internet-cafe’s and a like do not have skype ????
and in re to "CPU and bandwidth to the Skype network"
that might be true , but skype only needs that bandwidth do to voice and/or video data transfer, and we do not need that, all most of us want is text chat
and actually i think for linux there is already a a multi massager that has this, so its far from impossible, i cant try it as i do not have linux but supposed to "Kopete" has skype with out skype running in the background from what i read
see this as well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiprotocol_instant_messaging_application
although in that list is not perfect, trilian-pro and mirinda only work with skype running
i live in the philippines and most of the internet cafes i go in don't have skype. some of the national chains in the malls have it. yahoo on the other hand is rampant and i see more people making voice calls on yahoo than skype (even though yahoo is not as good in that respect).
on the cpu and bandwidth issue, i'm almost sure im correct - skype uses your cpu and bandwidth not only for the calls and chats you make, but also to help other users (hence its a p2p network). ever noticed how silly your cpu goes when running a torrent program. its the same principle with the skype client but i guess not so drastic. when i have run skype it just hogs everything... nasty.
its interesting to see that miranda and trilian can interact with skype, but only if the skype client is running.... so what exactly is the point in that?
ok well in the Philippines i haven't been yet, but in Thailand and Singapore i was already, most tourists like to use skype because SIP messengers are new and most people do not know about it yet, yahoo and msn i do not even know if you can use to call real phones, but the main reason tourists are using skype is the phone function
bandwith / CPU-usage:
although it sounds it could be right somehow i think you might have a different issue with the performance, just about 100% of the time i have bitlord (torrent) or emule running, now of course i restrict the bandwidth they use to around 25% of max i have available but i do not restrict CPU time those task/programs use
and although one those programs run in the background i see no performance drop when i play performance intensive games like : barrlefield2/2142, quake wars and alike
now i have an average CPU nothing fancy for todays standards : P dual 3.1ghtz with 32bit xp and 2gig ram.. but i do not see the performance drop you talking about on P2P, and on skype i see none
its easy to test just run game with out and see what frames / seconds you get and then repeat with running skype and/or p/2
as well its easy just get a bandwidth monitoring tool and see if skype is doing something idling or in chat, on my computer it does nothing (even version 3.5)
my issue with skype is that its like 30mb task ruining my available memory and it adds 100's of unnecessary entries to the registry, as well that its annoying ruining several messengers at once