picodebian-user Mailing List for PicoDebian

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Hi,

Vieagra - 3.35
Ciealis - 3.75
Vaelium - 1.25
Soema   - 1.15
Amebien - 2.90

http://www.zod!rx.com

Important: Remove "!" in the above link

Hi,

Viragra  1,80
Ciralis  3,00
Lervitra 3,35

http://nitrogenou.printeryml-com

Replace "-" with "." in the above link

--
blonde mermaid who
was fast asleep on a rock, her long hair over her face. It fluttered
every time she snored.

Hi,
Pharmacy directly from the manufacturer, economize over 50 %

http://www.lodrx*.com - Remove "*" to make the link working!

--

he is  
The Bulgarian wizard suddenly spotted Harrys scar and started gabbling
loudly and excitedly, pointing at it.

Hi
VJAGGRA $ 3 , 30
AMMBJEN $ 2 , 90
VALLJUM $ 1 , 25
CJALJS $ 3 , 75
XANNjAX $1 , 50
=20
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Listen, Harry, he said (still in a very low voice), I feel very bad
about all this... you were thrown into this tournament, you didnt

Hi,

VdIAGRA for LESS http://www.pisdefunjinksadefun.com

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quick chop under the ear. He and I whirled about, ready to jump to
water. The bravest of us chewed industriously on the concentrated

Hi,

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=20
his name.
The table was in the way. I launched myself across it just in time to

Good day,

VALzzIUM

CIAzzLIS

VIAzzGRA

AMBzzIEN

Econnomize over 50 % with http://www.croeswiubr.info
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  _____ =20

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The scene grew lighter and I realized we were back in the castle
courtyard. The boy was alone-or was he? Something was there in the
darkness, a shape that grew clearer.

Chris Boot wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> After rather a long gap in the development of PicoDebian, I plan to  
> start working on my small Debian-based distribution again. At this  
> stage I'd like to ask people what they might like the focus of the  
> distribution to be, since I am planning on overhauling the system  
> from the ground up.
>
>   
FWIW,  I would very much value a review of other projects in this area,
in part to get a sense of the ecosphere, and partly to pick a best-of 
approach.

IMO having Debian in the name implies package management. 
dunno what that means int this context though.

Embed-Debian - exists, what are they doing ?
buildroot - a scripted build system
buildbot - another ..
probably others

That probably not what you wanted to spend your time doing,
but the ecosphere part might be important for niche-stability.
Maybe your user-base has some experience with these others ?

On Saturday 27 May 2006 15:10, Chris Boot wrote:
>That's an interesting script it must be said, I'm not sure that
>recompiling from scratch every time is worth the minor gains however.
> From experience with Gentoo, upgrading can be a royal pain and takes
>ages, but all that being said things can be customised a lot and
>optimised for the local hardware in various ways...

Agreed, it ain't worth the effort. And you are right about the royal pain.

>> Well at least we should build some of the packages our own (at
>> least uclibc),
>> since glibc is just too heavy. uClibc is really neat, and as far as I
>> endevoured full compatible to glibc.
>
>I agree here, this is probably the best path. And since we're pulling
>glibc out from under everything, all the packages we use will need to
>be rebuilt.

Not so much of a problem, if we figure out a nice script that does all the=
=20
work (or at least most of the work) for us :)

>>> Should PicoDebian turn into a 'new m0n0wall' complete with web-based
>>> control panel, or be a base-system much like Debian is to Ubuntu and
>>> leave it up to users (yourselves) to customise.
>>
>> I would like to keep it base-system (well I used to work with
>> Gentoo ;) ), but
>> a web-based control panel would also be nice.
>
>I'm starting to think it'll be a base-system with very few things
>installed per default, and everything added on using binary packages.

Would also be fine with me.

>>> Finally, should this be focussed solely on net4801's to start with,
>>> or more of Soekris's range of machines, or include other boards such
>>> as WRAPs.
>>
>> Would be nice to include all the Geode based boards (at least those
>> compatible/compareable to the net4801).
>
>It would be nice to include lots of machines! We'll have to see
>what's practical and how much demand for everything there is. Mind
>you, supporting all Geode based boards doesn't seem like too hard a
>task... :-P

All the Geode boards / machines I can think of, are based upon the 586-vari=
ant=20
of the chip. Or are there any other processors you thought of including=20
support into picodebian ?

TIA, Christian

=2D-=20
Christian Heim <ph...@ge...>
Gentoo Linux Developer - vserver/openvz

OK,

I've just joined #picodebian on Freenode. I'm a bit of an IRC n00b I  
must admit, but let's give this a shot!

Chris

On 27 May 2006, at 16:18, Attila Sukosd wrote:

> Do you have an irc channel or a place it would be possible to discuss
> different ideas with you in a more lively way? :P
>
> -- 
> Owner of
> Zsuatt Free Shell Service
> web: http://www.zsuatt.com/
> irc: irc.zsuatt.com:6667 channel: #zsuattshellz
> _______________________________________________
> Soekris-tech mailing list
> Soe...@li...
> http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech

-- 
Chris Boot
bo...@bo...
http://www.bootc.net/

On 27 May 2006, at 17:25, Christian Heim wrote:

> On Saturday 27 May 2006 12:55, CB wrote:
>> Obviously one improvement would be to no longer use a prebuilt image,
>> but to use a script to build an image from scratch (perhaps like
>> OpenWRT?). This would mean automating all the manual processes,
>> including deciding what needs storing in the read-only root FS,
>> temporary RAM filesystems, and a read/write configuration partition.
>
> You could also try/have a look at Gentoo (or at least the bootstrap.sh
> script=B9).

That's an interesting script it must be said, I'm not sure that =20
recompiling from scratch every time is worth the minor gains however. =20=

 =46rom experience with Gentoo, upgrading can be a royal pain and takes =20=

ages, but all that being said things can be customised a lot and =20
optimised for the local hardware in various ways...

>> There is also the question of how much of a base Debian system we
>> should draw on: whether we should go for a full Debian system or =20
>> (re-)
>> build many of our own packages, such as using uClibc and busybox
>> instead of glibc and bash and other system tools.
>
> Well at least we should build some of the packages our own (at =20
> least uclibc),
> since glibc is just too heavy. uClibc is really neat, and as far as I
> endevoured full compatible to glibc.

I agree here, this is probably the best path. And since we're pulling =20=

glibc out from under everything, all the packages we use will need to =20=

be rebuilt.

>> Should PicoDebian turn into a 'new m0n0wall' complete with web-based
>> control panel, or be a base-system much like Debian is to Ubuntu and
>> leave it up to users (yourselves) to customise.
>
> I would like to keep it base-system (well I used to work with =20
> Gentoo ;) ), but
> a web-based control panel would also be nice.

I'm starting to think it'll be a base-system with very few things =20
installed per default, and everything added on using binary packages.

>> Finally, should this be focussed solely on net4801's to start with,
>> or more of Soekris's range of machines, or include other boards such
>> as WRAPs.
>
> Would be nice to include all the Geode based boards (at least those
> compatible/compareable to the net4801).

It would be nice to include lots of machines! We'll have to see =20
what's practical and how much demand for everything there is. Mind =20
you, supporting all Geode based boards doesn't seem like too hard a =20
task... :-P

Thanks,
Chris

--=20
Chris Boot
bo...@bo...
http://www.bootc.net/

On Saturday 27 May 2006 12:55, CB wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> After rather a long gap in the development of PicoDebian, I plan to
> start working on my small Debian-based distribution again. At this
> stage I'd like to ask people what they might like the focus of the
> distribution to be, since I am planning on overhauling the system
> from the ground up.

Great to hear that! :)

> Obviously one improvement would be to no longer use a prebuilt image,
> but to use a script to build an image from scratch (perhaps like
> OpenWRT?). This would mean automating all the manual processes,
> including deciding what needs storing in the read-only root FS,
> temporary RAM filesystems, and a read/write configuration partition.

You could also try/have a look at Gentoo (or at least the bootstrap.sh=20
script=B9).

> There is also the question of how much of a base Debian system we
> should draw on: whether we should go for a full Debian system or (re-)
> build many of our own packages, such as using uClibc and busybox
> instead of glibc and bash and other system tools.

Well at least we should build some of the packages our own (at least uclibc=
),=20
since glibc is just too heavy. uClibc is really neat, and as far as I=20
endevoured full compatible to glibc.

> Should PicoDebian turn into a 'new m0n0wall' complete with web-based
> control panel, or be a base-system much like Debian is to Ubuntu and
> leave it up to users (yourselves) to customise.

I would like to keep it base-system (well I used to work with Gentoo ;) ), =
but=20
a web-based control panel would also be nice.

> Finally, should this be focussed solely on net4801's to start with,
> or more of Soekris's range of machines, or include other boards such
> as WRAPs.

Would be nice to include all the Geode based boards (at least those=20
compatible/compareable to the net4801).

> I'd like to solicit input from as far and wide as possible, and get
> as much of this documented as possible.
>
> Many thanks and sorry for the delays!
>
> Chris

TIA, Christian

=2D-=20
Christian Heim <ph...@ge...>
Gentoo Linux Developer - vserver/openvz

Hi all,

After rather a long gap in the development of PicoDebian, I plan to  
start working on my small Debian-based distribution again. At this  
stage I'd like to ask people what they might like the focus of the  
distribution to be, since I am planning on overhauling the system  
from the ground up.

Obviously one improvement would be to no longer use a prebuilt image,  
but to use a script to build an image from scratch (perhaps like  
OpenWRT?). This would mean automating all the manual processes,  
including deciding what needs storing in the read-only root FS,  
temporary RAM filesystems, and a read/write configuration partition.

There is also the question of how much of a base Debian system we  
should draw on: whether we should go for a full Debian system or (re-) 
build many of our own packages, such as using uClibc and busybox  
instead of glibc and bash and other system tools.

Should PicoDebian turn into a 'new m0n0wall' complete with web-based  
control panel, or be a base-system much like Debian is to Ubuntu and  
leave it up to users (yourselves) to customise.

Finally, should this be focussed solely on net4801's to start with,  
or more of Soekris's range of machines, or include other boards such  
as WRAPs.

I'd like to solicit input from as far and wide as possible, and get  
as much of this documented as possible.

Many thanks and sorry for the delays!

Chris

-- 
Chris Boot
bo...@bo...
http://www.bootc.net/

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:37:07 +0100
Chris Boot <bo...@bo...> wrote:

> Olivier Lebrun wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >I am using a modified pebble an several soekris, and want to upgrade to a
> >sarge base dostro. I see your project and will try it but i have one question :
> >
> >Did you plan to add a remountrw command, like in pebble ? If not, why ?
> >because I often need to modify some configuration files.
> >
> >Great job !
> >thanks :)
> >
> >bye 
> >  
> >
> Hi Olivier,
> 
> Not in its current state, this would actually be impossible. The 
> filesystem is a SquashFS, which can only be mounted read only. I suppose 
> a variant could be made with read/write support, but I'm not too keen on 
> the idea: flash only has a certain number of write cycles.
> 
> What suggestions to others have about this?
> 
> Regards,
> Chris
> 
> -- 
> Chris Boot
> bo...@bo...
> http://www.bootc.net/

Questions and "solutions" about write support:

In order to have a limited write support, I add a small partition (ext2) on the CF
and do some symbolic links of files I may have to edit. It is mount ro and can be remount rw.

Have you a solution to be able to upgrade a package (or the whole root.img) directly on the CF ?
without having to put the CF on another PC I mean ? I have try this dirty thing : upload a new root.img
image on the CF and do a dd ... directly on the cf ;)

I am looking at the jffs2 filesystem to replace squashfs. It is a read/write compressed filesystem.
Did you hear about it ?

Something you can add in the README : How to install grub ?
> grub
grub> root (hdx,0)
grub> setup (hdx)
grub> quit

Thanks again!
Regards,

DB wrote:

>[snip]
>  
>
Hi David,

Thanks a lot for the comments, I'll make sure I incorporate those 
instructions in the next release and on the PicoDebian web site.

Regards,
Chris

-- 
Chris Boot
bo...@bo...
http://www.bootc.net/

I received my Soekris Net 4801 yesterday and am now running
picodebian on it.  The process was straightforward, but there
were a few things that were not immediately obvious.

After creating the root.img, it was not obvious exactly how to
put the image onto the flash card=B9.  I took an educated guess
and did the following:

  1.  Put the flash card in a separate Linux machine where it
      can be partitioned.

  2.  Delete all partitions on the flash card.

  3.  Create two primary partitions on the flash card:

       /dev/hdb1 =3D 8M
       /dev/hdb2 =3D [rest of card]

  4.  Use dd to put the images onto the flash card:

       dd if=3Dboot.img of=3D/dev/hdb1
       dd if=3Droot.img of=3D/dev/hdb2

      Of course, be sure you know which device the flash card is!
      If you do this to your hard drive, you will lose all your data
      on the hard drive.

  5.  Don't forget to install the bootloader onto the card.  It's
      a little comment to the side of /boot/grub/menu.lst

        update-grub

  6.  Put the flash card back in the router/Soekris/whatever and boot
      from the flash.

=B9 You can replace "flash card" in these steps with "hard drive" and
  I'm sure it will work with an actual hard drive.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=20

Other things to be aware of (in the chroot environment):

  1.  Edit /etc/network/interfaces to use either DHCP or to set the
      addresses you want.

  2.  Edit /etc/resolv.conf to use whatever nameserver you need and
      to set your domain name (if desired).

  3.  Set the root password building the root.img

  4.  The console speed did not match the default in the bios, so you
      probably want to set all of these to have the same serial
      console speed:

       /boot/grub/menu.lst
       /etc/inittab
       [the board's bios]

      If you don't do this, you will just get garbage on your console
      connection.
     =20
  5.  Shorewall is enabled by default, which will prevent you from
      pinging or SSH-ing into the box.  You will want to either
      disable it initially or read up and configure shorewall before
      starting.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=20

Some things I added to my root image:

   sshd, tcpdump, less

All in all, it was very easy to install and get running.  Within a
week, I plan to replace my existing firewall setup with this new
box.

Thanks Chris for doing all the hard work!

-David

Hello all,

Just joined the lists, but I figured I'd answer your questions.

> How should PicoDebian be packaged? Suggestions:
> 1. As it is now, with scripts and a base distribution in one tarball.
> 2. Scripts in one tarball, base dist in another.
> 3. Just scripts. A new script will create the distribution from
> scratch.

Were it me, I'd go for #3, but I think to cover the largest possible
userbase, probably a combination of 2 and 3. That is, 2, but with an
additional script to create the (base) distribution.

> What kind of a system should the base be oriented around? Currently it"s 
> a NAT router with DNS, DHCP, OpenVPN, and a firewall. Should we just 
> distribute a bare-bones base and let people add their own packages as 
> they see fit or do as I do now, with some packages pre-installed? 
> Especially, should wireless support come standard (I don"t use it)?

My use for the system is completely different from yours (EPIA-MythTV
system booted from CF with debian) so I'd say distribute a bare-bones.
Maybe make it possible to distribute a config file that includes apt-get
sources and packages to install. So when I get my system up and running
to my satisfaction, I can publish myth-on-epia.pico which another user
could then use to get either the same packages as I have, or even the
same versions. 

> I"d like to put forward that it should be possible to create the root 
> filesystem image and run any other PicoDebian scripts on any version of 
> Linux, not just on a Debian host. All in favour? I"ll need testers for 
> this, since I"m running Debian on all my boxes now.

Works for me. I have a gentoo system I can use for some testing, at
least until I get fed up again and install debian on it.

> I"m planning on rewriting the mkimg.sh script to be much more 
> "intelligent" as to what things to skip over when creating the root 
> image. At the moment, what"s keeping the image so large (by many 
> standards) is perl. My plan is to write a version of the script that 
> will take a list of packages to definitely keep on the system, and 
> exclude files belonging to any packages that aren"t in that list. This 
> will take quite a bit of work parsing the DPKG status file and working 
> out a dependency tree, but in the end I think it"ll be worth it.

That'd be cool. 

Let me know what I can do to help.

Peter

Olivier Lebrun wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am using a modified pebble an several soekris, and want to upgrade to a
>sarge base dostro. I see your project and will try it but i have one question :
>
>Did you plan to add a remountrw command, like in pebble ? If not, why ?
>because I often need to modify some configuration files.
>
>Great job !
>thanks :)
>
>bye 
>  
>
Hi Olivier,

Not in its current state, this would actually be impossible. The 
filesystem is a SquashFS, which can only be mounted read only. I suppose 
a variant could be made with read/write support, but I'm not too keen on 
the idea: flash only has a certain number of write cycles.

What suggestions to others have about this?

Regards,
Chris

-- 
Chris Boot
bo...@bo...
http://www.bootc.net/

Hi,

I am using a modified pebble an several soekris, and want to upgrade to a
sarge base dostro. I see your project and will try it but i have one question :

Did you plan to add a remountrw command, like in pebble ? If not, why ?
because I often need to modify some configuration files.

Great job !
thanks :)

bye 

Hi all,

Hot on the heels of my previous message announcing the first preview of 
PicoDebian, I'd like to solicit some input from all of you. For now I've 
just been ploughing ahead with my own ideas, since I've been lacking any 
concrete direction to go in. Below is a set of questions, some of which 
may have suggestions. If you're not happy with one of these, suggest 
your own idea!

How should PicoDebian be packaged? Suggestions:
1. As it is now, with scripts and a base distribution in one tarball.
2. Scripts in one tarball, base dist in another.
3. Just scripts. A new script will create the distribution from scratch.

What kind of a system should the base be oriented around? Currently it's 
a NAT router with DNS, DHCP, OpenVPN, and a firewall. Should we just 
distribute a bare-bones base and let people add their own packages as 
they see fit or do as I do now, with some packages pre-installed? 
Especially, should wireless support come standard (I don't use it)?

I'd like to put forward that it should be possible to create the root 
filesystem image and run any other PicoDebian scripts on any version of 
Linux, not just on a Debian host. All in favour? I'll need testers for 
this, since I'm running Debian on all my boxes now.

I'm planning on rewriting the mkimg.sh script to be much more 
'intelligent' as to what things to skip over when creating the root 
image. At the moment, what's keeping the image so large (by many 
standards) is perl. My plan is to write a version of the script that 
will take a list of packages to definitely keep on the system, and 
exclude files belonging to any packages that aren't in that list. This 
will take quite a bit of work parsing the DPKG status file and working 
out a dependency tree, but in the end I think it'll be worth it.

Any other suggestions are very much welcome!

Many thanks,
Chris

-- 
Chris Boot
bo...@bo...
http://www.bootc.net/

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