From: Robert O. <rl...@pe...> - 2002-08-19 02:15:05
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Hi, Here's a short version of my longer question: is EmailNotification going to be implemented anytime soon? If not, I'll probably wind up trying to write the code myself for our site, but if someone else is working on it, and if it'll be available shortly, I'll probably hold off. Here's a longer version: I recently installed PHPWiki at our company. I let a few people at the company know about it, and we used it a lot for a couple of projects for the first few days. After that, it sort of petered out... mostly, we forget to check it. What happened was that there were four of us on the Wiki, and a few days went by where only I made Wiki postings. I kept on checking the RecentChanges page, but no-one had posted anything right away, and by the time they did, I had stopped going back regularly to check to see if they'd posted. And by the time I went back, they stopped going back, etc. The problem, it seems to me, is that the Wiki is purely a pull technology. And it's true that email is also a pull technology, but over the last ten years it's essentially become a push technology, because everyone checks their email, all the time. (You could call email a virtual push technology). If EmailNotification was implemented for the Wiki, I suspect (but obviously don't know for sure) that our Wiki usage would shoot up. We wouldn't have to remember to view the Wiki because we'd be attaching the Wiki to our (effective) push messaging. A side note here: I do find it interesting that the Wiki isn't enough even for the hardcore Wiki lovers on this mailing list -- if it was enough, presumably the mailing list wouldn't be necessary, because you'd all be checking the Wiki regularly. When I started writing this message, I had a choice of posting it on the Wiki or sending out email -- I chose email because it was the only way I had of guaranteeing that the people I wanted to see the message, WOULD see the message! I'd like to ask those of you who send email to this list: why do you send the email instead of posting to the Wiki? Is it for the reasons I've given above, or is there something else going on? It does seem to me that if EmailNotification were available, this mailing list could cease to exist. Anyway. Is this in the works, or should I assume that I should start hacking? Thanks, Robert Orenstein Perforce Software |
From: Reini U. <ru...@x-...> - 2002-08-19 06:49:23
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Robert Orenstein schrieb: > Here's a short version of my longer question: is EmailNotification > going to be implemented anytime soon? If not, I'll probably wind up > trying to write the code myself for our site, but if someone else > is working on it, and if it'll be available shortly, I'll probably > hold off. ... > Anyway. Is this in the works, or should I assume that I should start > hacking? It's in the works, but before the userauth and preferences have to be finished, because I want EmailNotification to be based on that. 1-2 weeks probably. pear/Cache issues and wrong permissions needed more time than I thought. I want a non-public list, either as private list in the UserPreferences (preferred) or in each page accessible only by the authuser. For a public solution (as in other wiki's) or admin-only there were some patches. -- Reini Urban http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/ |
From: John K. <jo...@ke...> - 2002-08-19 08:04:13
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>admin-only there were some patches. I added this EmailNotificationHack and use it for my ten wikis. It just mails me (and possibly one or two other admins) whenever a page is changed or deleted. http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/EmailNotificationHack John. Caveat: Reini does the serious stuff, I'm just a hacker, as in "hack n slash"! -- ------------------------------------ 0113 2289316 / 07944 755613 jo...@ke... / www.kershaw.org AOL johnkershaw / Y! john_m_kershaw ------------------------------------ |
From: Reini U. <ru...@x-...> - 2002-08-19 08:32:09
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John Kershaw schrieb: > http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/EmailNotificationHack > Caveat: Reini does the serious stuff, I'm just a hacker, as in "hack n > slash"! Caveat: Jeff does the serious stuff. I'm just another hacker with CVS access. |
From: Evan H. <hu...@ne...> - 2002-08-19 13:06:47
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On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Robert Orenstein wrote: > Here's a short version of my longer question: is EmailNotification > going to be implemented anytime soon? If not, I'll probably wind up > trying to write the code myself for our site, but if someone else > is working on it, and if it'll be available shortly, I'll probably > hold off. I'm in the process of implementing a notification feature. I'm adding a "subscribe" button to the bottom of each page (by the user login box) that, when clicked, adds an entered email address to a notification list for the page. The notification list for the page is stored as part of the page's meta-data. There are a couple of problems with this approach: 1. A user has to subscribe to page. There's no way of subscribing to page creation/deletion or a general modification to a page. 2. If a user changes their email address, they must manually modify every page they've subscribed to. Eventually, once user profiles have been added, I'd like to store the list of pages each user cares about in the profile (this will cause a performance hit as every user is iterated over at save time, but that's life). e |
From: Evan H. <hu...@ne...> - 2002-08-19 13:17:30
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On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Robert Orenstein wrote: ... > A side note here: I do find it interesting that the Wiki isn't enough > even for the hardcore Wiki lovers on this mailing list -- if it was > enough, presumably the mailing list wouldn't be necessary, because > you'd all be checking the Wiki regularly. When I started writing this > message, I had a choice of posting it on the Wiki or sending out email -- > I chose email because it was the only way I had of guaranteeing that > the people I wanted to see the message, WOULD see the message! I'd like > to ask those of you who send email to this list: why do you send the > email instead of posting to the Wiki? Is it for the reasons I've given > above, or is there something else going on? It does seem to me that > if EmailNotification were available, this mailing list could cease > to exist. Wiki is not designed as a groupware/messaging tool. It is designed to give many people the ability to edit a document simultaneously, not provide a forum for discussion. Would you use CVS to carry out a discussion? Would you use Word/OpenOffice's "Track Changes" and "Merge Document" features to carry out a discussion? The correct answer to both of these questions is "no". If you want a discussion forum, use a tool that is designed for it (a web BBS, a mailing list, etc). If you want different people on different networks to be able to edit a document, use wiki. e |
From: Aredridel <are...@nb...> - 2002-08-19 16:10:34
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> > A side note here: I do find it interesting that the Wiki isn't enough > > even for the hardcore Wiki lovers on this mailing list -- if it was > > enough, presumably the mailing list wouldn't be necessary, because > > you'd all be checking the Wiki regularly. > Wiki is not designed as a groupware/messaging tool. It is designed to > give many people the ability to edit a document simultaneously, not > provide a forum for discussion.=20 Wiki is odd in that it wasn't particularly designed for /any/ of it's uses. On the other hand, it's simplicity of concept has made it better than a lot of solutions "designed" for a specific purpose. It has always been easy to say what Wiki is, though never with certainty that what you're saying is complete. It's always been quite hard to say what it isn't. > Would you use CVS to carry out a discussion? Would you use > Word/OpenOffice's "Track Changes" and "Merge Document" features to carry > out a discussion? Actually, CVS has turned into a discussion forum on the PLD Gnui/Linux distro system more than once... quite effective, having the discussed material so close at hand, and discussion as meta-data. > The correct answer to both of these questions is "no". If you want a > discussion forum, use a tool that is designed for it (a web BBS, a mailing > list, etc). If you want different people on different networks to be able > to edit a document, use wiki.=20 I rather disagree -- wikis make fantastic discussion tools, though with a few features added they are much more potent. That said, I also agree that I'd prefer a mailing list for discussion than a wiki -- I can answer email offline, and the queuing systems and batching of messages is far more sophisticated than Wiki. Both are quite valid, but I quite prefer e-mail for discussion like this. Ari |
From: Steve W. <sw...@pa...> - 2002-08-24 20:40:03
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And to this thread I would add: Wikis are generally used for ad-hoc project documentation. This seems to be their killer application. ~swain On Monday, August 19, 2002, at 12:10 PM, Aredridel wrote: >>> A side note here: I do find it interesting that the Wiki isn't enough >>> even for the hardcore Wiki lovers on this mailing list -- if it was >>> enough, presumably the mailing list wouldn't be necessary, because >>> you'd all be checking the Wiki regularly. > >> Wiki is not designed as a groupware/messaging tool. It is designed to >> give many people the ability to edit a document simultaneously, not >> provide a forum for discussion. > > Wiki is odd in that it wasn't particularly designed for /any/ of it's > uses. On the other hand, it's simplicity of concept has made it better > than a lot of solutions "designed" for a specific purpose. > > It has always been easy to say what Wiki is, though never with > certainty that what you're saying is complete. It's always been quite > hard to say what it isn't. > >> Would you use CVS to carry out a discussion? Would you use >> Word/OpenOffice's "Track Changes" and "Merge Document" features to >> carry >> out a discussion? > > Actually, CVS has turned into a discussion forum on the PLD Gnui/Linux > distro system more than once... quite effective, having the discussed > material so close at hand, and discussion as meta-data. > >> The correct answer to both of these questions is "no". If you want a >> discussion forum, use a tool that is designed for it (a web BBS, a >> mailing >> list, etc). If you want different people on different networks to be >> able >> to edit a document, use wiki. > > I rather disagree -- wikis make fantastic discussion tools, though with > a few features added they are much more potent. > > That said, I also agree that I'd prefer a mailing list for discussion > than a wiki -- I can answer email offline, and the queuing systems and > batching of messages is far more sophisticated than Wiki. Both are > quite valid, but I quite prefer e-mail for discussion like this. > > Ari > |
From: Reini U. <ru...@x-...> - 2002-09-11 07:38:51
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Robert Orenstein schrieb: > Hi, Reini. What's happening with Email Notification? What's > the realistic current timeframe? I had problems with the preferences storage and with locale issues. Once this is solved, EmailNotification is one day work. But I have a lot of work in my company this week, so realistically I hope to debug it at the next weekend. -- Reini Urban http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/ |