phpwiki-talk

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] phpWiki and postnuke at Daimonin

[Joel U. <uck...@no...>]

Thus spake "Michael Toennies":
> Hello
> 
> We are the daimonin mmorpg project:
> http://www.daimonin.net
> 
> We use phpWiki as our main documentation & information
> central of our postnuke site. I have to say that we are
> very happy with that solution and its a great success. 
> Thank you guys!
> 
> The only negative point is, that we can't use the original
> phpWiki but a modified version which used the postnuke
> user permission interface.
> 
> When you look at the site and you understand what we do you will
> see how incredible useful the permission system is. We give access
> to several parts of the website include site sub-admins, gallery 
> album owners, file system upload permission, forum permission,
> forum moderator permission and at last write access to the wiki.
> 
> Thats only (and really only, our old website had it not, so we
> know where we talk about) possible with one central permission and
> group system which gave us the Postnuke CMS.
> 
> As a game (with much underage users), we need a stable & secure 
> permission system. A free wiki access is no option. In the old website
> we had deleting and vandalism of pages every few hours.
> 
> With the new webpage, we had not a single issue.
> 
> When you look at the phpWiki of our site, you will notice how good it 
> fits in the CMS and how useful it is.
> 
> What i fear is, that someone find a exploit in the hacked phpWiki.
> Its not active in development anymore and it has still issues.
> 
> Has the phpWiki community ever thought about to add a native postnuke
> interface? Postnuke lakes a native wiki. It has a very easy to use
> interface which allows it to bind in modules. Also, the changes would
> be normally not so hard - just a redirect to the postnuke permission
> system. Nearly all other parts from phpWiki fits in fine.
> 
> It would be a win/win solution for both projects. Postnuke would get
> a stable, tested & working wiki. phpWiki would get a incredible boost
> in users and, i can ensure it as a open source project leader for years now,
> alot more developer.
> 
> Both project would gain ALOT for a little work.
> 
> They would stay independed as projects but would gain
> through the Synergy effect of the interface both a big
> boost. 
> 
> Michael Toennies
> Daimonin MMORPG

So, what you're doing is querying postnuke for user permissions? Is that
the extend of your modifications?

I haven't looked at our permissions system in a while---maybe it already is
this way---but it would make some sense to have permissions queries work
similarly to the way DB queries do. That is, have an abstract permissions
interface which calls the appropriate permissions backend. That way, you
guys could write a postnuke permissions backend and there would be no need
for further changes to the code.

AW: [Phpwiki-talk] phpWiki and postnuke at Daimonin

[Daimonin M. <in...@da...>]

Hm, i thought the postnuke phpwiki port is known?

http://stuff.kling.nu/

I use that module/port. I have not done any code or port for it -
i just use it and fixed 1-2 minor issues.

It seems i missed to explain the (beside security) only
and really only important point: That i can use *one*=20
permission system - the group/permission system of postnuke
to control the wiki.

Its the most important point. I would *never* install a 2nd
permission system using module. I want and i must use the
central permission system of postnuke to control the wiki
user & pages. This phpwiki postnuke port allow just that.

In fact i would even change the cms or write a own small doc
system when i had no choice instead of use the standalone permission
of phpwiki.

Daimonin has gotten around 3500 registered users in 6 weeks, we will =
have=20
soon 10.000 and more. With the many people having access to different
parts...
I described the reason in my first mail. (if i would use a different=20
CMS i would do the same, postnuke is just the cms is use).=20

I had to syncronize some different groups and permission groups which
access different modules & areas of the website (we talk about gallery,
forum, wiki...).
I need to see who has which right in one view. I must be able to change=20
it with one click. And other people with lesser permission in the=20
site should be able to build groups and assign their own people with
permissions.

All what i can say is, that we had bad experience with different modules
having
different permission. Very bad. With the central system, all works like =
a
charm
and it works fast and clean.

Sorry when it sounds like a rant, but its really the important point.

So, as i understand the phpwiki code, the permission system itself is
not that different as the one from postnuke. It should be possible
to relink the permission queries to postnuke and use their loged =
in/logout
system. The postnuke port does exactly that.

And what i can tell is, that if that is done, both system together works
wonderful.

> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: php...@li...=20
> [mailto:php...@li...] Im Auftrag=20
> von Joel Uckelman
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. M=E4rz 2005 04:59
> An: php...@li...
> Betreff: Re: [Phpwiki-talk] phpWiki and postnuke at Daimonin=20
>=20
> Thus spake "Michael Toennies":
> > Hello
> >=20
> > We are the daimonin mmorpg project:
> > http://www.daimonin.net
> >=20
> > We use phpWiki as our main documentation & information=20
> central of our=20
> > postnuke site. I have to say that we are very happy with=20
> that solution=20
> > and its a great success.
> > Thank you guys!
> >=20
> > The only negative point is, that we can't use the original=20
> phpWiki but=20
> > a modified version which used the postnuke user permission=20
> interface.
> >=20
> > When you look at the site and you understand what we do you=20
> will see=20
> > how incredible useful the permission system is. We give access to=20
> > several parts of the website include site sub-admins, gallery album=20
> > owners, file system upload permission, forum permission, forum=20
> > moderator permission and at last write access to the wiki.
> >=20
> > Thats only (and really only, our old website had it not, so we know=20
> > where we talk about) possible with one central permission and group=20
> > system which gave us the Postnuke CMS.
> >=20
> > As a game (with much underage users), we need a stable & secure=20
> > permission system. A free wiki access is no option. In the=20
> old website=20
> > we had deleting and vandalism of pages every few hours.
> >=20
> > With the new webpage, we had not a single issue.
> >=20
> > When you look at the phpWiki of our site, you will notice=20
> how good it=20
> > fits in the CMS and how useful it is.
> >=20
> > What i fear is, that someone find a exploit in the hacked phpWiki.
> > Its not active in development anymore and it has still issues.
> >=20
> > Has the phpWiki community ever thought about to add a=20
> native postnuke=20
> > interface? Postnuke lakes a native wiki. It has a very easy to use=20
> > interface which allows it to bind in modules. Also, the=20
> changes would=20
> > be normally not so hard - just a redirect to the postnuke=20
> permission=20
> > system. Nearly all other parts from phpWiki fits in fine.
> >=20
> > It would be a win/win solution for both projects. Postnuke=20
> would get a=20
> > stable, tested & working wiki. phpWiki would get a=20
> incredible boost in=20
> > users and, i can ensure it as a open source project leader=20
> for years=20
> > now, alot more developer.
> >=20
> > Both project would gain ALOT for a little work.
> >=20
> > They would stay independed as projects but would gain through the=20
> > Synergy effect of the interface both a big boost.
> >=20
> > Michael Toennies
> > Daimonin MMORPG
>=20
> So, what you're doing is querying postnuke for user=20
> permissions? Is that the extend of your modifications?
>=20
> I haven't looked at our permissions system in a while---maybe=20
> it already is this way---but it would make some sense to have=20
> permissions queries work similarly to the way DB queries do.=20
> That is, have an abstract permissions interface which calls=20
> the appropriate permissions backend. That way, you guys could=20
> write a postnuke permissions backend and there would be no=20
> need for further changes to the code.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest &=20
> candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D6595&alloc_id=3D14396&op=3Dclick
> _______________________________________________
> Phpwiki-talk mailing list
> Php...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwiki-talk

Re: AW: [Phpwiki-talk] phpWiki and postnuke at Daimonin

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

> Hm, i thought the postnuke phpwiki port is known?
>
> http://stuff.kling.nu/
>
> I use that module/port. I have not done any code or port for it -
> i just use it and fixed 1-2 minor issues.
>
> It seems i missed to explain the (beside security) only
> and really only important point: That i can use *one*
> permission system - the group/permission system of postnuke
> to control the wiki.
>
> Its the most important point. I would *never* install a 2nd
> permission system using module. I want and i must use the
> central permission system of postnuke to control the wiki
> user & pages. This phpwiki postnuke port allow just that.

Just to clarify:
The 2nd permission system you are talking about (phpwiki's new WikiUserNew
methods)
just allows that, either passing the wiki username/password pair to
an optional backend, like postnuke, and play nicely with the accept/deny
return value from this backend. ("ExternalAuth").
Or just passing the postnuke auth to the wiki.
You dont need seperate wiki auth and perms, since postnuke
already handles auth, perms and prefs.

Finer tuning of prefs and perms (phpwiki prefs or acl's) or using
the underlying postnuke perms is a matter of taste and tools.
We support all of that.

> In fact i would even change the cms or write a own small doc
> system when i had no choice instead of use the standalone permission of
> phpwiki.
...
> Sorry when it sounds like a rant, but its really the important point.
>
> So, as i understand the phpwiki code, the permission system itself is
> not that different as the one from postnuke. It should be possible to
> relink the permission queries to postnuke and use their loged in/logout
> system. The postnuke port does exactly that.
>
> And what i can tell is, that if that is done, both system together works
> wonderful.
>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: php...@li...
>> [mailto:php...@li...] Im Auftrag
>> von Joel Uckelman
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. März 2005 04:59
>> An: php...@li...
>> Betreff: Re: [Phpwiki-talk] phpWiki and postnuke at Daimonin
>>
>> Thus spake "Michael Toennies":
>> > Hello
>> >
>> > We are the daimonin mmorpg project:
>> > http://www.daimonin.net
>> >
>> > We use phpWiki as our main documentation & information
>> central of our
>> > postnuke site. I have to say that we are very happy with
>> that solution
>> > and its a great success.
>> > Thank you guys!
>> >
>> > The only negative point is, that we can't use the original
>> phpWiki but
>> > a modified version which used the postnuke user permission
>> interface.
>> >
>> > When you look at the site and you understand what we do you
>> will see
>> > how incredible useful the permission system is. We give access to
>> several parts of the website include site sub-admins, gallery album
>> owners, file system upload permission, forum permission, forum
>> moderator permission and at last write access to the wiki.
>> >
>> > Thats only (and really only, our old website had it not, so we know
>> where we talk about) possible with one central permission and group
>> system which gave us the Postnuke CMS.
>> >
>> > As a game (with much underage users), we need a stable & secure
>> permission system. A free wiki access is no option. In the
>> old website
>> > we had deleting and vandalism of pages every few hours.
>> >
>> > With the new webpage, we had not a single issue.
>> >
>> > When you look at the phpWiki of our site, you will notice
>> how good it
>> > fits in the CMS and how useful it is.
>> >
>> > What i fear is, that someone find a exploit in the hacked phpWiki.
>> Its not active in development anymore and it has still issues.
>> >
>> > Has the phpWiki community ever thought about to add a
>> native postnuke
>> > interface? Postnuke lakes a native wiki. It has a very easy to use
>> interface which allows it to bind in modules. Also, the
>> changes would
>> > be normally not so hard - just a redirect to the postnuke
>> permission
>> > system. Nearly all other parts from phpWiki fits in fine.
>> >
>> > It would be a win/win solution for both projects. Postnuke
>> would get a
>> > stable, tested & working wiki. phpWiki would get a
>> incredible boost in
>> > users and, i can ensure it as a open source project leader
>> for years
>> > now, alot more developer.
>> >
>> > Both project would gain ALOT for a little work.
>> >
>> > They would stay independed as projects but would gain through the
>> Synergy effect of the interface both a big boost.
>> >
>> > Michael Toennies
>> > Daimonin MMORPG
>>
>> So, what you're doing is querying postnuke for user
>> permissions? Is that the extend of your modifications?
>>
>> I haven't looked at our permissions system in a while---maybe
>> it already is this way---but it would make some sense to have
>> permissions queries work similarly to the way DB queries do.
>> That is, have an abstract permissions interface which calls
>> the appropriate permissions backend. That way, you guys could
>> write a postnuke permissions backend and there would be no
>> need for further changes to the code.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://phpwiki.org/   http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] phpWiki and postnuke at Daimonin

[Daniel S. <da...@Op...>]

I also use phpwiki embedded in PostNuke:
  http://portal.opensta.org/faq.php
Although I didn't initially set it up and have had to do a bit of
investigation to try to work out what it is.

Daimonin MMORPG wrote:
> Hm, i thought the postnuke phpwiki port is known?
> 
> http://stuff.kling.nu/

This site just describes some patches to the postnuke port of phpwiki
at:
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/pn-modules/
And this seems to be a patched version of phpwiki 1.3.x - where x is
something <4 .  I've not identified what actual version it is yet,
the text in the version would seem to suggest it is x = 0 or 1 but I
suspect it is later.  Has anyone worked out what actual version this
is...

I've recently updated PostNuke to 0.750a and although this port
mostly seems to work fine, it has broken one thing: the author used
to get set up to be the PN username if the user was logged in, now
it is always the IP address.  I'm trying to track this down but if
anyone has already worked this out then please save me some time and
drop me a hint.

I also found this more recent post of phpwiki for postnuke:
  http://noc.postnuke.com/projects/pnphpwiki/
based on phpwiki 1.3.8.  I haven't tried it but am interested to hear
any reports of success or otherwise with its use.

It seems that there's quite a few of us interested in using phpwiki
within postnuke, and yet all the ports seem pretty abandoned...  it
is good to hear the Reini has done work on making it "native" - I'm
sure with the obvious interest we can volunteer some time to keep
this updated with a the current phpwiki once 1.3.11 is stable and
released.  I know I'm willing to give it some time - I ought to at 
least drop my findings into the phpwiki Wiki...

Cheers
/dan
-- 
Daniel Sutcliffe <Da...@Op...>
  OpenSTA part-time caretaker - http://OpenSTA.org/

AW: [Phpwiki-talk] phpWiki and postnuke at Daimonin

[Daimonin M. <in...@da...>]

> 
> I also use phpwiki embedded in PostNuke:
>   http://portal.opensta.org/faq.php
> Although I didn't initially set it up and have had to do a 
> bit of investigation to try to work out what it is.
> 
> Daimonin MMORPG wrote:
> > Hm, i thought the postnuke phpwiki port is known?
> > 
> > http://stuff.kling.nu/
> 
> This site just describes some patches to the postnuke port of phpwiki
> at:
>   http://sourceforge.net/projects/pn-modules/
> And this seems to be a patched version of phpwiki 1.3.x - 
> where x is something <4 .  I've not identified what actual 
> version it is yet, the text in the version would seem to 
> suggest it is x = 0 or 1 but I suspect it is later.  Has 
> anyone worked out what actual version this is...
> 
> I've recently updated PostNuke to 0.750a and although this 
> port mostly seems to work fine, it has broken one thing: the 
> author used to get set up to be the PN username if the user 
> was logged in, now it is always the IP address.  I'm trying 
> to track this down but if anyone has already worked this out 
> then please save me some time and drop me a hint.
> 
> I also found this more recent post of phpwiki for postnuke:
>   http://noc.postnuke.com/projects/pnphpwiki/
> based on phpwiki 1.3.8.  I haven't tried it but am interested 
> to hear any reports of success or otherwise with its use.
> 
> It seems that there's quite a few of us interested in using 
> phpwiki within postnuke, and yet all the ports seem pretty 
> abandoned...  it is good to hear the Reini has done work on 
> making it "native" - I'm sure with the obvious interest we 
> can volunteer some time to keep this updated with a the 
> current phpwiki once 1.3.11 is stable and released.  I know 
> I'm willing to give it some time - I ought to at least drop 
> my findings into the phpwiki Wiki...
> 
> Cheers
> /dan

I strongly agree to it.

What i can promise is, that people will get alot response from us
and the whole postnuke community. And the phpnuke people, because
there are easy interfaces for post->nuke stuff (even i don't care
about that CMS). Whatever you say about the CMS - the community 
is very big and demands a wiki since 2 years.

phpWiki is our core documentation and content generation core on our 
site and we got a 4000+ members in 8 weeks, constantly around 75-80
per day in the middle. 

That will increase heavily after we release (after half a year) the
new beta and we got ALOT questions around documentation and writing.

That *will* be generate some response and interest people want and
need here. ATM we can't give it - the hacked phpwiki is not usable for it.

All what i can say: The synergy effect will be a win to win situation for
both and that not just a empty phrase.

Michael Toennies
Daimonin MMORPG
http://www.daimonin.net

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] phpWiki and postnuke at Daimonin

[Lawrence A. <la...@us...>]

On 4 Apr 2005, at 15:02, Daniel Sutcliffe wrote:

>
> Daimonin MMORPG wrote:
>> Hm, i thought the postnuke phpwiki port is known?
>>
>> http://stuff.kling.nu/
>
> This site just describes some patches to the postnuke port of phpwiki
> at:
>   http://sourceforge.net/projects/pn-modules/
> And this seems to be a patched version of phpwiki 1.3.x - where x is
> something <4 .  I've not identified what actual version it is yet,
> the text in the version would seem to suggest it is x = 0 or 1 but I
> suspect it is later.  Has anyone worked out what actual version this
> is...
>


OK - you've dragged me out of retirement!  Hello everyone.

Any "old timers" on this list may remember that I wrote the 
postnuke/phpwiki module several years ago.  I really cannot remember a 
huge amount about it, I'm afraid.  It was based on phpWiki 1.3.2 
updated to about the end of December 2001 from cvs, and written to work 
(just about) with postnuke 0.7

I gave up supporting it partly because people seemed to expect that 
they were entitled to make huge demands on my time (grump grump), but 
mostly because I didn't much like the direction in which postnuke was 
headed.  Also, with some exceptions, there wasn't at the time much 
enthusiasm in the PN project team for wikis in general.  I expect that 
has changed now.


> I've recently updated PostNuke to 0.750a and although this port
> mostly seems to work fine, it has broken one thing: the author used
> to get set up to be the PN username if the user was logged in, now
> it is always the IP address.  I'm trying to track this down but if
> anyone has already worked this out then please save me some time and
> drop me a hint.
>

No idea, sorry.



> I also found this more recent post of phpwiki for postnuke:
>   http://noc.postnuke.com/projects/pnphpwiki/
> based on phpwiki 1.3.8.  I haven't tried it but am interested to hear
> any reports of success or otherwise with its use.

I was in contact with Jason Potkanski, who was responsible for this 
module (also based on mine), about a year ago.  He too has given up on 
postnuke, and had moved over (I think) to xoops.


>
> It seems that there's quite a few of us interested in using phpwiki
> within postnuke, and yet all the ports seem pretty abandoned...  it
> is good to hear the Reini has done work on making it "native" - I'm
> sure with the obvious interest we can volunteer some time to keep
> this updated with a the current phpwiki once 1.3.11 is stable and
> released.  I know I'm willing to give it some time - I ought to at
> least drop my findings into the phpwiki Wiki...


I am sure that there is scope for making phpwiki amenable to being 
incorporated into other software.  One thing that I recall thinking 
would help a great deal is if the wiki transform engine was more 
free-standing so that text could be passed in to a function, wikified, 
and returned to the calling application without invoking the whole 
phpwiki machinery.  This was not to easy last time I looked, which 
admittedly was some time ago.

Lawrence

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] phpWiki and postnuke at Daimonin

[Daniel S. <da...@Op...>]

Lawrence Akka wrote:
> OK - you've dragged me out of retirement!  Hello everyone.
> 
> Any "old timers" on this list may remember that I wrote the 
> postnuke/phpwiki module several years ago.  I really cannot
> remember a huge amount about it, I'm afraid.  It was based on
> phpWiki 1.3.2 updated to about the end of December 2001 from cvs,
> and written to work (just about) with postnuke 0.7

Thanks - I'm sure this background info will help, even though it is
probably in this lists archives.  I love the SF search engine :-X

> I gave up supporting it partly because people seemed to expect that 
> they were entitled to make huge demands on my time (grump grump),
> but mostly because I didn't much like the direction in which
> postnuke was headed.  Also, with some exceptions, there wasn't at
> the time much enthusiasm in the PN project team for wikis in
> general.  I expect that has changed now.

I have a love/hate relationship with PostNuke - I'm not sure what
their project team thinks as I find their resources an absolute
nightmare to navigate...

I can also relate to users expecting huge amounts of time ;-)

> > I've recently updated PostNuke to 0.750a and although this port
> > mostly seems to work fine, it has broken one thing: the author
> > used to get set up to be the PN username if the user was logged
> > in, now it is always the IP address.  I'm trying to track this
> > down but if anyone has already worked this out then please save
> > me some time and drop me a hint.
> 
> No idea, sorry.

Found it.  The PN getusrinfo() call only does anything useful after
"Enable support for legacy modules" is checked in the PN settings.
With this enabled I'm back to the functionality I had before the
upgrade.  I'm not sure what this call should be replaced with and
after some searching can't find any docs on updating legacy modules
up to the current PN API... if anyone else finds anything then please
post.

> > I also found this more recent post of phpwiki for postnuke:
> >   http://noc.postnuke.com/projects/pnphpwiki/
> > based on phpwiki 1.3.8.  I haven't tried it but am interested to
> > hear any reports of success or otherwise with its use.
> 
> I was in contact with Jason Potkanski, who was responsible for this 
> module (also based on mine), about a year ago.  He too has given up
> on postnuke, and had moved over (I think) to xoops.

As your module is working fine for me now - it is probably best to
concentrate any future efforts on any work that Reini may have
already done using the current CVS phpwiki codebase.  That is unless
anyone has positive things to say about Jason's module.

> I am sure that there is scope for making phpwiki amenable to being 
> incorporated into other software.  One thing that I recall thinking 
> would help a great deal is if the wiki transform engine was more 
> free-standing so that text could be passed in to a function,
> wikified, and returned to the calling application without invoking
> the whole phpwiki machinery.  This was not to easy last time I
> looked, which admittedly was some time ago.

I'm not sure about specifics but I do know that I have a couple of
uses in mind for phpwiki where I'd like to see it working hand in
hand with other PHP apps (Gallery and phpBB).  I don't think that
any Web application can afford to view itself as working in a vacuum
and being very flexible as to how you interoperate only broadens your
audience and appeal.  Not that OpenSTA is any example of these ideals
:rolleyes:

Cheers
/dan
-- 
Daniel Sutcliffe <Da...@Op...>
  OpenSTA part-time caretaker - http://OpenSTA.org/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] phpWiki and postnuke at Daimonin

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Hi Lawrence,

Lawrence Akka schrieb:
> On 4 Apr 2005, at 15:02, Daniel Sutcliffe wrote:
...
>> It seems that there's quite a few of us interested in using phpwiki
>> within postnuke, and yet all the ports seem pretty abandoned...  it
>> is good to hear the Reini has done work on making it "native" - I'm
>> sure with the obvious interest we can volunteer some time to keep
>> this updated with a the current phpwiki once 1.3.11 is stable and
>> released.  I know I'm willing to give it some time - I ought to at
>> least drop my findings into the phpwiki Wiki...
> 
> I am sure that there is scope for making phpwiki amenable to being 
> incorporated into other software.  One thing that I recall thinking 
> would help a great deal is if the wiki transform engine was more 
> free-standing so that text could be passed in to a function, wikified, 
> and returned to the calling application without invoking the whole 
> phpwiki machinery.  This was not to easy last time I looked, which 
> admittedly was some time ago.

I thought about functional interfaces for foreign apps.
But in fact phpwiki needs all configs and helpers, so the only entry 
point is the one we are using now, which is fair enough.
Our TransformText() - "the machinery" - depends on most underlying files.

The real problem with phpwiki as module is the amount of our global vars 
and configs which might clash with the other apps.
That's why I started to work on phpnuke, postnuke, xoops and gforge 
modules, to check for possible conflicts. Besides the auth problematic, 
sharing and overtaking already registered users.

So far only $Theme clashed, that's why I renamed it to $WikiTheme.
The rest should really go into a global $WikiCfg[] somewhen, but not for 
1.3.x, so I thought.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban
http://phpwiki.org