phpwiki-talk

[Phpwiki-talk] Updates with WikiLens code ?

[Dan F. <dfr...@cs...>]

Reini,

I'd send you this personally, but you like me to email phpwiki-talk, so 
here goes.

WikiLens has been drifting farther and farther from PhpWiki code. 
However, I'd love to contribute the code back into PhpWiki! There are 
several issues, tho. I'd appreciate your advice.

1. I'd be happy to apply changes myself, and I have the SourceForge 
permissions, but I don't want to make changes you don't approve of. This 
leaves me in the position of trying to get approval, so I am less 
inclined to change the code. Would it make sense if we just went ahead 
and started making changes, and allowed you to reverse what you thought 
was very bad?

2. My plan was to take 1.3.11, integrate its changes into WikiLens code, 
then take the merged stuff from our codebase and submit it back. 
However, 1.3.11 has been delayed for a LONG time. I am unwilling to 
integrate in-between releases because I fear the code might be unstable, 
so we are in a holding pattern.

3. We are sorely tempted to add a database table every now and then. For 
example, we are considering putting category links in their own table 
instead of making them page links, to try to solve 2 issues: a) 
unintentional category membership (by refering to a page, but not 
wanting it to be a category reference, with all that means); b) naive 
users deleting the category membership.

We've fixed bugs (from our point of view) in PhpWiki. I submitted some 
patches (e.g., 994497), but it is extra effort to do so. Therefore, 
we've fixed bugs I haven't submitted patches for.

We've added features. For example, we have a CreatePage plugin that 
allows you to import Amazon books with structured information, we have a 
new login process that we feel is smoother. I bet we have lots of other 
features as well that I've forgotten to detail.

Thoughts welcome.

Dan

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Updates with WikiLens code ?

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Dan Frankowski schrieb:
> I'd send you this personally, but you like me to email phpwiki-talk, so 
> here goes.
> 
> WikiLens has been drifting farther and farther from PhpWiki code. 
> However, I'd love to contribute the code back into PhpWiki! There are 
> several issues, tho. I'd appreciate your advice.

Before reading it, I think that adding smarty dependency is way we 
cannot follow.

> 1. I'd be happy to apply changes myself, and I have the SourceForge 
> permissions, but I don't want to make changes you don't approve of. This 
> leaves me in the position of trying to get approval, so I am less 
> inclined to change the code. Would it make sense if we just went ahead 
> and started making changes, and allowed you to reverse what you thought 
> was very bad?

everything besides the required smarty dependency. you can make it 
optional though for several features you need (user-editable templates).

> 2. My plan was to take 1.3.11, integrate its changes into WikiLens code, 
> then take the merged stuff from our codebase and submit it back. 
> However, 1.3.11 has been delayed for a LONG time. I am unwilling to 
> integrate in-between releases because I fear the code might be unstable, 
> so we are in a holding pattern.

well, I still cannot reproduce the sf.net problem, exhausting memory on 
large pagelists. I build several debugging php versions to no avail.
So I think the solution is to recommend a new php (4.3x works fine) for 
phpwiki > 400 pages and a sql database. 4.2 and earlier is not recommended.

And I try to improve the postgres interface, because mysql is very bad 
in terms of locking. we should really get rid of the sf.net webservices 
or fall back to dba there.

> 3. We are sorely tempted to add a database table every now and then. For 
> example, we are considering putting category links in their own table 
> instead of making them page links, to try to solve 2 issues: a) 
> unintentional category membership (by refering to a page, but not 
> wanting it to be a category reference, with all that means); b) naive 
> users deleting the category membership.

non user-not editable category membership could also go to meta-data, 
but this cannot be searched efficiently. The main problem is WikiDB 
transparency. we have to think that dba should stay the default.

> We've fixed bugs (from our point of view) in PhpWiki. I submitted some 
> patches (e.g., 994497), but it is extra effort to do so. Therefore, 
> we've fixed bugs I haven't submitted patches for.

ah, I didn't see them. I'll have a look. I just study your wikilens 
sources from time to time.

> We've added features. For example, we have a CreatePage plugin that 
> allows you to import Amazon books with structured information, we have a 
> new login process that we feel is smoother. I bet we have lots of other 
> features as well that I've forgotten to detail.

yes, I saw.
I prefer your login process and the better layout.
With CreatePage we have to merge with my version, because I added some 
new features also. I do it with my private imdb library, getting missing 
params from the imdb database. you do it by quering amazon.
this sounds very similar.

FYI:
I'll go into this direction during the next year. My paid job with phpwiki:

Improve interface to display complex relationships and improve graphical 
analysis. WikiFormRich, PloticusSql. See the ploticus samples and quisp.
   http://aretha.jax.org/pub-cgi/phenome/mpdcgi?rtn=datamodel/datamodel
instead of quisp, some graph generation tool (ploticus most likely) will 
be used to display pagelist results and external sql queries.
excel-like graphs to display them. PhpWiki as some kind a excel frontend 
with revisions and permissions.

Your StructuredData approach also looks very, very good to edit it.

I'll probably also have use an external AI expert system (lisa, clips, 
...) with user-editable rules (models) in wikipages, to define objects, 
relationship and distance. I'm just setting this up.

WikiPluginCached needs to be improved, because this is a nightmare to 
configure and use.
Maybe we should get rid of the pear Cache lib at all and use the md5'ify 
all args trick and use this as cached filename. Like the TeX2png plugin 
by Pierrick. This is much simplier and faster. It only has to be 
extended to handle html/map/png files also.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Updates with WikiLens code ?

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Reini Urban schrieb:
> I'll probably also have use an external AI expert system (lisa, clips, 
> ...) with user-editable rules (models) in wikipages, to define objects, 
> relationship and distance. I'm just setting this up.

This is a short outline:
   http://www.mindswap.org/  ("semantic web" buzz buzz ...)

lisa is currently adding certainty factor support (cf), which I consider 
a good thing.
See http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=9521847
but more on news:comp.lang.lisp
via wilbur-rdf this can easily being embedded into phpwiki.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Updates with WikiLens code ?

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Reini Urban schrieb:
>> I'll probably also have use an external AI expert system (lisa, clips, 
>> ...) with user-editable rules (models) in wikipages, to define 
>> objects, relationship and distance. I'm just setting this up.
> 
> 
> This is a short outline:
>   http://www.mindswap.org/  ("semantic web" buzz buzz ...)

This describes it even better:
   http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/SemanticWeb

> lisa is currently adding certainty factor support (cf), which I consider 
> a good thing.
> See http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=9521847
> but more on news:comp.lang.lisp
> via wilbur-rdf this can easily being embedded into phpwiki.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Updates with WikiLens code ?

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Dan Frankowski schrieb:
> WikiLens has been drifting farther and farther from PhpWiki code. 
> However, I'd love to contribute the code back into PhpWiki! There are 
> several issues, tho. I'd appreciate your advice.

I started now cleaning up the current wikilens code.
But there are a lot of style and other issues I need to fix.
Featurewise we will come together somehow.

Should I put my changed versions into the PhpWiki site or PhpWikiDemo or 
WikiLens? So that we can discuss it, together with the original author.
Some plugins are really terrible written. :)

Maybe diff's are enough.
I would suggest PhpWiki:WikiLensDevelopment/Filename, but the sf.net 
server is so slow, that I would prefer your server.

I would paste my diff's there, probably in a
<?plugin PhpHighlight ?> section.

Note that I put "WikiLens" into PhpWiki:InterWikiMap, so you can use 
shortcuts like WikiLens:WikiLens/StructuredDataTutorial on PhpWiki.

--------
And somewhere I want to discuss an extension to add semantic to links.
In a PhpWiki:SemanticWeb a links from an subject to an object also has a 
verb, like isA:Object, hasA:Object, isSubPropertyOf:Object, ...
which will create the RDF graphs.
See for example http://powl.contxserver.de/powl-cvs/ for a complicate 
example, which we could do much better.

And we need a global register of those magic verbs, to be added the the 
interwiki map.
Such a register already exists BTW. (a root RDF somewhere)

You might like this also, because you will be able to define Fields 
(StructuredData) by inheritence.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Updates with WikiLens code ?

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Reini Urban schrieb:
> Dan Frankowski schrieb:
> 
>> WikiLens has been drifting farther and farther from PhpWiki code. 
>> However, I'd love to contribute the code back into PhpWiki! There are 
>> several issues, tho. I'd appreciate your advice.
> 
> I started now cleaning up the current wikilens code.
> But there are a lot of style and other issues I need to fix.
> Featurewise we will come together somehow.
> 
> Should I put my changed versions into the PhpWiki site or PhpWikiDemo or 
> WikiLens? So that we can discuss it, together with the original author.
> Some plugins are really terrible written. :)
> 
> Maybe diff's are enough.
> I would suggest PhpWiki:WikiLensDevelopment/Filename, but the sf.net 
> server is so slow, that I would prefer your server.

I posted the current status of affairs there:

   http://www.wikilens.org/wiki.php/ReiniUrban/WikiLensPatches

There's some work to be done, but nothing problematic.
one day work probably.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Updates with WikiLens code ?

[Dan F. <dfr...@cs...>]

Reini,

As usual, you are much faster than I am! Thanks for your efforts.

Three things:

1. We are _about_ to release another round of changes. We are on RC5, 
and hope to be out early next week. Thus, there are some changes that 
you haven't seen yet.

2. You say there are a lot of style and other issues to fix in our code. 
I agree. However, if you go through and make small changes everywhere, 
it becomes difficult for us to merge. I'm not quite sure what to do 
about this. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if it's feasible to give you 
access to our CVS directly; you'd have to have a University account, and 
I'm not sure if that's possible. I'm thinking. Also, some prior changes 
you made actually broke rating functions we used, since there were no 
unit tests for them. I'm also thinking about that. I have to go now, but 
I will seek ideas. Basically, we'd have to look over your changes and 
try to integrate them, or something like that. Not sure, but it would be 
more than a day for us.

3. I fully intend to respond to your comments on our Wiki, but it may 
take me a few days. Thanks again for your patience.

Dan

Reini Urban wrote:

> Reini Urban schrieb:
>
>> Dan Frankowski schrieb:
>>
>>> WikiLens has been drifting farther and farther from PhpWiki code. 
>>> However, I'd love to contribute the code back into PhpWiki! There 
>>> are several issues, tho. I'd appreciate your advice.
>>
>>
>> I started now cleaning up the current wikilens code.
>> But there are a lot of style and other issues I need to fix.
>> Featurewise we will come together somehow.
>>
>> Should I put my changed versions into the PhpWiki site or PhpWikiDemo 
>> or WikiLens? So that we can discuss it, together with the original 
>> author.
>> Some plugins are really terrible written. :)
>>
>> Maybe diff's are enough.
>> I would suggest PhpWiki:WikiLensDevelopment/Filename, but the sf.net 
>> server is so slow, that I would prefer your server.
>
>
> I posted the current status of affairs there:
>
>   http://www.wikilens.org/wiki.php/ReiniUrban/WikiLensPatches
>
> There's some work to be done, but nothing problematic.
> one day work probably.

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Updates with WikiLens code ?

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Dan Frankowski schrieb:
> As usual, you are much faster than I am! Thanks for your efforts.
> 
> Three things:
> 
> 1. We are _about_ to release another round of changes. We are on RC5, 
> and hope to be out early next week. Thus, there are some changes that 
> you haven't seen yet.
> 
> 2. You say there are a lot of style and other issues to fix in our code. 
> I agree. However, if you go through and make small changes everywhere, 
> it becomes difficult for us to merge. I'm not quite sure what to do 
> about this. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if it's feasible to give you 
> access to our CVS directly; you'd have to have a University account, and 
> I'm not sure if that's possible. I'm thinking. Also, some prior changes 
> you made actually broke rating functions we used, since there were no 
> unit tests for them. I'm also thinking about that. I have to go now, but 
> I will seek ideas. Basically, we'd have to look over your changes and 
> try to integrate them, or something like that. Not sure, but it would be 
> more than a day for us.
> 
> 3. I fully intend to respond to your comments on our Wiki, but it may 
> take me a few days. Thanks again for your patience.
> 
> Dan
> 
> Reini Urban wrote:
> 
>> Reini Urban schrieb:
>>
>>> Dan Frankowski schrieb:
>>>
>>>> WikiLens has been drifting farther and farther from PhpWiki code. 
>>>> However, I'd love to contribute the code back into PhpWiki! There 
>>>> are several issues, tho. I'd appreciate your advice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I started now cleaning up the current wikilens code.
>>> But there are a lot of style and other issues I need to fix.
>>> Featurewise we will come together somehow.
>>>
>>> Should I put my changed versions into the PhpWiki site or PhpWikiDemo 
>>> or WikiLens? So that we can discuss it, together with the original 
>>> author.
>>> Some plugins are really terrible written. :)
>>>
>>> Maybe diff's are enough.
>>> I would suggest PhpWiki:WikiLensDevelopment/Filename, but the sf.net 
>>> server is so slow, that I would prefer your server.
>>
>> I posted the current status of affairs there:
>>
>>   http://www.wikilens.org/wiki.php/ReiniUrban/WikiLensPatches
>>
>> There's some work to be done, but nothing problematic.
>> one day work probably.

Ok, just finish your work, and I'll integrate then.

I stopped testing the memory exhaustion problem now, and I'm thinking of 
an SourceForgeNetHell switch to another web server.
(phpwiki.org and demo site)

On he other side, in the postgres hackers group I see that they just 
finished testing the new server farm (one of the biggest worldwide).
Hopefully this will be for web also, not only DB2 and postgresql backends.

So I will concentrate on the remaining PageList bugs,
my SqlResult / SemanticWeb features, plugincached problems,
and basic integration of your groups stuff.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/