phpwiki-talk

[Phpwiki-talk] Localisation of content pages / wiki words?

[Norberto M. <nu...@me...>]

Hi list,
Is there a plugin to aid with *content / wikiwords* localisation? 
Auto-translation of wikiwords was a passing thought...but riddled with 
problems.

I know pgsrc has been localised to several languages (I'll be glad to 
help with Spanish, BTW), but I'm looking for something that will help 
visitors see the version of a page in the correct language.

(excuse my poor knowledge of plugin syntax and phylosophy in the 
following examples...)
something like...

<?plugin LocalisedVersion Lang="en-*" default="yes">
[ALL TEXT FOR ALL ENGLISH LOCALES  HERE]
<?plugin LocalisedVersion Lang="es-*">
[ALL THE TEXT FOR SP LOCALES HERE]

etc.
and only the right text would show depending on your language.
 Notes : how to manage editing? show everything? enhance editing so that 
only you get to edit the language you are seeing? that could be 
problematic with versioning...maybe?

Or maybe a combination of language detection and http redirection. Say, 
in AWikiPage

<?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Lang="en-*" WikiWord="AWikiPageEnglish">
<?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Lang="es-*" WikiWord="MiPaginaWiki">

Note: how to handle defaults? maybe all in one plugin declaration?:

<?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Values="[en-*, AWikiPageEnglish, 
es-*,MiPaginaWeb,ab-*, HowDoYouSayWikiPageInArabic]" default="en-*" >

( or default="DefaultPageForNewLanguage").

Or even better, include instead of redirection...

Any suggestions on how to best implement this if not implemented yet? 
I'm happy to do it :-)

Best regards,

-- 
Norberto Meijome | numard at meijome dot net
"Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough." - Richard Feynman

RE : [Phpwiki-talk] Localisation of content pages / wiki words?

[<jw...@fi...>]

Hi!
This is not an answer, but in case something needs to be developed on =
that
subject, it would certainly be helpful to look at how www.wikipedia.org =
does
it.

They have this localization issue deeply rooted in their project =
objective

J=E9r=F4me

-----Message d'origine-----
De=A0: php...@li...
[mailto:php...@li...] De la part de Norberto
Meijome
Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 10 mars 2004 08:03
=C0=A0: 'php...@li...'
Objet=A0: [Phpwiki-talk] Localisation of content pages / wiki words?

Hi list,
Is there a plugin to aid with *content / wikiwords* localisation?=20
Auto-translation of wikiwords was a passing thought...but riddled with=20
problems.

I know pgsrc has been localised to several languages (I'll be glad to=20
help with Spanish, BTW), but I'm looking for something that will help=20
visitors see the version of a page in the correct language.

(excuse my poor knowledge of plugin syntax and phylosophy in the=20
following examples...)
something like...

<?plugin LocalisedVersion Lang=3D"en-*" default=3D"yes">
[ALL TEXT FOR ALL ENGLISH LOCALES  HERE]
<?plugin LocalisedVersion Lang=3D"es-*">
[ALL THE TEXT FOR SP LOCALES HERE]

etc.
and only the right text would show depending on your language.
 Notes : how to manage editing? show everything? enhance editing so that =

only you get to edit the language you are seeing? that could be=20
problematic with versioning...maybe?

Or maybe a combination of language detection and http redirection. Say,=20
in AWikiPage

<?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Lang=3D"en-*" =
WikiWord=3D"AWikiPageEnglish">
<?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Lang=3D"es-*" =
WikiWord=3D"MiPaginaWiki">

Note: how to handle defaults? maybe all in one plugin declaration?:

<?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Values=3D"[en-*, AWikiPageEnglish,=20
es-*,MiPaginaWeb,ab-*, HowDoYouSayWikiPageInArabic]" default=3D"en-*" >

( or default=3D"DefaultPageForNewLanguage").

Or even better, include instead of redirection...

Any suggestions on how to best implement this if not implemented yet?=20
I'm happy to do it :-)

Best regards,

--=20
Norberto Meijome | numard at meijome dot net
"Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough." - Richard
Feynman



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Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Localisation of content pages / wiki words?

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

we came to this conclusion: don't do it with plugins.
we do it with virtual paths on 
http://phpwiki.sf.net/demo/(en|de|es|fr|...)/ and do the linking manually.

of course it would be fine to have a tool which helps in localizing new 
wikipages by lookup in a wikiword dictionary.


Norberto Meijome schrieb:
> Hi list,
> Is there a plugin to aid with *content / wikiwords* localisation? 
> Auto-translation of wikiwords was a passing thought...but riddled with 
> problems.
> 
> I know pgsrc has been localised to several languages (I'll be glad to 
> help with Spanish, BTW), but I'm looking for something that will help 
> visitors see the version of a page in the correct language.
> 
> (excuse my poor knowledge of plugin syntax and phylosophy in the 
> following examples...)
> something like...
> 
> <?plugin LocalisedVersion Lang="en-*" default="yes">
> [ALL TEXT FOR ALL ENGLISH LOCALES  HERE]
> <?plugin LocalisedVersion Lang="es-*">
> [ALL THE TEXT FOR SP LOCALES HERE]
> 
> etc.
> and only the right text would show depending on your language.
> Notes : how to manage editing? show everything? enhance editing so that 
> only you get to edit the language you are seeing? that could be 
> problematic with versioning...maybe?
> 
> Or maybe a combination of language detection and http redirection. Say, 
> in AWikiPage
> 
> <?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Lang="en-*" WikiWord="AWikiPageEnglish">
> <?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Lang="es-*" WikiWord="MiPaginaWiki">
> 
> Note: how to handle defaults? maybe all in one plugin declaration?:
> 
> <?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Values="[en-*, AWikiPageEnglish, 
> es-*,MiPaginaWeb,ab-*, HowDoYouSayWikiPageInArabic]" default="en-*" >
> 
> ( or default="DefaultPageForNewLanguage").
> 
> Or even better, include instead of redirection...
> 
> Any suggestions on how to best implement this if not implemented yet? 
> I'm happy to do it :-)
> 
> Best regards,
> 


-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Localisation of content pages / wiki words?

[Norberto M. <nu...@me...>]

Hi,
I thought of a dictionary lookup, but I thought it was overkill--at 
least for my needs.
Virtual paths would be cool if I would have every page translated... 
IMHO, it would be handy to present the translated version if it existed, 
or the default if that was the only one...growing on a per case basis.

Do you mind me asking why " don't do it with plugins"?

TIA,
Beto

Reini Urban wrote:

> we came to this conclusion: don't do it with plugins.
> we do it with virtual paths on 
> http://phpwiki.sf.net/demo/(en|de|es|fr|...)/ and do the linking 
> manually.
>
> of course it would be fine to have a tool which helps in localizing 
> new wikipages by lookup in a wikiword dictionary.
>
>
> Norberto Meijome schrieb:
>
>> Hi list,
>> Is there a plugin to aid with *content / wikiwords* localisation? 
>> Auto-translation of wikiwords was a passing thought...but riddled 
>> with problems.
>>
>> I know pgsrc has been localised to several languages (I'll be glad to 
>> help with Spanish, BTW), but I'm looking for something that will help 
>> visitors see the version of a page in the correct language.
>>
>> (excuse my poor knowledge of plugin syntax and phylosophy in the 
>> following examples...)
>> something like...
>>
>> <?plugin LocalisedVersion Lang="en-*" default="yes">
>> [ALL TEXT FOR ALL ENGLISH LOCALES  HERE]
>> <?plugin LocalisedVersion Lang="es-*">
>> [ALL THE TEXT FOR SP LOCALES HERE]
>>
>> etc.
>> and only the right text would show depending on your language.
>> Notes : how to manage editing? show everything? enhance editing so 
>> that only you get to edit the language you are seeing? that could be 
>> problematic with versioning...maybe?
>>
>> Or maybe a combination of language detection and http redirection. 
>> Say, in AWikiPage
>>
>> <?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Lang="en-*" 
>> WikiWord="AWikiPageEnglish">
>> <?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Lang="es-*" WikiWord="MiPaginaWiki">
>>
>> Note: how to handle defaults? maybe all in one plugin declaration?:
>>
>> <?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Values="[en-*, AWikiPageEnglish, 
>> es-*,MiPaginaWeb,ab-*, HowDoYouSayWikiPageInArabic]" default="en-*" >
>>
>> ( or default="DefaultPageForNewLanguage").
>>
>> Or even better, include instead of redirection...
>>
>> Any suggestions on how to best implement this if not implemented yet? 
>> I'm happy to do it :-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>
>

-- 
Norberto Meijome | numard at meijome dot net
"Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough." - Richard Feynman

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Localisation of content pages / wiki words?

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

I decided now to write a _WikiTranslation plugin, which helps
* on translating strings,
* pages - by using an external translator (Google) -, and
* displaying the translation matrix for certain lists,
   like pages, buttons, plugins and all wikiwords.

But no locale redirector yet, though I think it's a cool idea.

Norberto Meijome schrieb:
> I thought of a dictionary lookup, but I thought it was overkill--at 
> least for my needs.
> Virtual paths would be cool if I would have every page translated... 
> IMHO, it would be handy to present the translated version if it existed, 
> or the default if that was the only one...growing on a per case basis.
> 
> Do you mind me asking why " don't do it with plugins"?
> 
> TIA,
> Beto
> 
> Reini Urban wrote:
> 
>> we came to this conclusion: don't do it with plugins.
>> we do it with virtual paths on 
>> http://phpwiki.sf.net/demo/(en|de|es|fr|...)/ and do the linking 
>> manually.
>>
>> of course it would be fine to have a tool which helps in localizing 
>> new wikipages by lookup in a wikiword dictionary.
>>
>>
>> Norberto Meijome schrieb:
>>
>>> Hi list,
>>> Is there a plugin to aid with *content / wikiwords* localisation? 
>>> Auto-translation of wikiwords was a passing thought...but riddled 
>>> with problems.
>>>
>>> I know pgsrc has been localised to several languages (I'll be glad to 
>>> help with Spanish, BTW), but I'm looking for something that will help 
>>> visitors see the version of a page in the correct language.
>>>
>>> (excuse my poor knowledge of plugin syntax and phylosophy in the 
>>> following examples...)
>>> something like...
>>>
>>> <?plugin LocalisedVersion Lang="en-*" default="yes">
>>> [ALL TEXT FOR ALL ENGLISH LOCALES  HERE]
>>> <?plugin LocalisedVersion Lang="es-*">
>>> [ALL THE TEXT FOR SP LOCALES HERE]
>>>
>>> etc.
>>> and only the right text would show depending on your language.
>>> Notes : how to manage editing? show everything? enhance editing so 
>>> that only you get to edit the language you are seeing? that could be 
>>> problematic with versioning...maybe?
>>>
>>> Or maybe a combination of language detection and http redirection. 
>>> Say, in AWikiPage
>>>
>>> <?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Lang="en-*" 
>>> WikiWord="AWikiPageEnglish">
>>> <?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Lang="es-*" WikiWord="MiPaginaWiki">
>>>
>>> Note: how to handle defaults? maybe all in one plugin declaration?:
>>>
>>> <?plugin LocalisedVersionRedirect Values="[en-*, AWikiPageEnglish, 
>>> es-*,MiPaginaWeb,ab-*, HowDoYouSayWikiPageInArabic]" default="en-*" >
>>>
>>> ( or default="DefaultPageForNewLanguage").
>>>
>>> Or even better, include instead of redirection...
>>>
>>> Any suggestions on how to best implement this if not implemented yet? 
>>> I'm happy to do it :-)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Localisation of content pages / wiki words?

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Reini Urban schrieb:
> I decided now to write a _WikiTranslation plugin, which helps
> * on translating strings,
> * pages - by using an external translator (Google) -, and
> * displaying the translation matrix for certain lists,
>   like pages, buttons, plugins and all wikiwords.

It's in CVS as plugin/_WikiTranslation.php
Should be at the demo site tomorrow Pacific Time
(0 am pacific time or 9:00 CET).

_WikiTranslation:  Display pagenames and other strings in
various languages. Can also be used to let a favorite translation 
service translate a whole page. Current favorite: translate.google.com 
if from_lang = en or fr

Examples:
  <?plugin _WikiTranslation page=HomePage languages=fr ?>
     Translation service for HomePage into french (redirect
     to translate.google.com)
  <?plugin _WikiTranslation what=pages ?>
     Translation matrix of all pages with proper translations
     (all pages in pgsrc)
  <?plugin _WikiTranslation what=wikiwords match="W*" limit=20 ?>
     Translation matrix of the first 20 wikiwords matching "W*"
  <?plugin _WikiTranslation string=HomePage languages=fr,de,sv ?>
     Translation matrix for all given languages
  <?plugin _WikiTranslation string=HomePage ?>
     Translation matrix for all supported languages
  <?plugin _WikiTranslation string=HomePage languages=fr ?>
     Just return the translated string for this language.

What I want to add is a link in the matrix to let users suggest 
translations online to ease localisation.
This would help the wikiadmin to add needed strings to locale/$lang.po

 > But no locale redirector yet, though I think it's a cool idea.

Mediawiki (wikipedia) uses it's own db table for the page translation 
matrix and uses its own syntax to link to a different language.

We could make use of the _WikiTranslation helpers and define special 
interwiki monikers for translated pages, similar to the magic "Upload:" 
moniker. I think this would be the most transparent method.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/