phpwiki-talk

[Phpwiki-talk] Line breaks in new markup

[Paul B. <pa...@pa...>]

Is the change to the way line breaks work in new markup intentional?

It seems that a single end-of-line (EOL) is parsed as an end of line in
the HTML, rather than a <br />. To get a <br /> you have to force it
with %%%. I cannot work with this - it is unlike any other wiki I know.

What would work much better is for the default for an end of a line to
be a <br />, unless that line were terminated with a / or something, in
which case it would flow on. Double EOLs of course stay as closing a
</p>.

Is this already switchable, if not can it be made switchable (or got rid
of altogether), or does the community prefer what we have now with %%%
anyway so I'd better just get on and code it myself?

Paul

RE: [Phpwiki-talk] Line breaks in new markup

[electron <ele...@mg...>]

This has been a user requested feature.

2 ways to do it:

1) Assume as you said, parse EOL as <br />

2) Replace EOL with %%% and let user decide in preview. New option to
disable auto formatting?

I suggest 1 and we only parse as such on pages that don't have old style
markup checked. Also would suggest /_ as that is a combination that is
infrequently used.

-Jtp


----

Is the change to the way line breaks work in new markup intentional?

It seems that a single end-of-line (EOL) is parsed as an end of line in
the HTML, rather than a <br />. To get a <br /> you have to force it
with %%%. I cannot work with this - it is unlike any other wiki I know.

What would work much better is for the default for an end of a line to
be a <br />, unless that line were terminated with a / or something, in
which case it would flow on. Double EOLs of course stay as closing a
</p>.

Is this already switchable, if not can it be made switchable (or got rid
of altogether), or does the community prefer what we have now with %%%
anyway so I'd better just get on and code it myself?

Paul




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RE: [Phpwiki-talk] Line breaks in new markup

[John K. <li...@ke...>]

At 10:26 am -0600 24/2/04, electron wrote:
>This has been a user requested feature.
>
>2 ways to do it:
>
>1) Assume as you said, parse EOL as <br />
>
>2) Replace EOL with %%% and let user decide in preview. New option to
>disable auto formatting?
>
>I suggest 1 and we only parse as such on pages that don't have old style
>markup checked. Also would suggest /_ as that is a combination that is
>infrequently used.

A long time ago I added ';;' as an alternative to the very ugly %%%, 
since ; is a 'breaking' character, and changed %%% to <br clear=all> 
since I'd added left/right alignment to images.

If you're looking for an alternative to %%%, that's not used in 
normal text, might ;; be an option?

John.

RE: [Phpwiki-talk] Line breaks in new markup

[Paul B. <pa...@pa...>]

Why disable for pages with old style markup - EOL -> <br /> was how the
old markup worked?

/_ is a good idea, it will not IMO be needed very often, on the other
hand you could always put a space after a / at the end of line to
'escape' it if you wanted to display the / - it would not affect the
rendering (just white space in HTML).

I am still trying to find where this happens in the code (excellent code
BTW - generating valid HTML is much harder than it looks, the
inline/block level rules being particularly unhelpful)...


-----Original Message-----
From: electron [mailto:ele...@mg...] 
Sent: 24 February 2004 16:27
To: 'Paul Bloomfield'; php...@li...
Subject: RE: [Phpwiki-talk] Line breaks in new markup


This has been a user requested feature.

2 ways to do it:

1) Assume as you said, parse EOL as <br />

2) Replace EOL with %%% and let user decide in preview. New option to
disable auto formatting?

I suggest 1 and we only parse as such on pages that don't have old style
markup checked. Also would suggest /_ as that is a combination that is
infrequently used.

-Jtp


----

Is the change to the way line breaks work in new markup intentional?

It seems that a single end-of-line (EOL) is parsed as an end of line in
the HTML, rather than a <br />. To get a <br /> you have to force it
with %%%. I cannot work with this - it is unlike any other wiki I know.

What would work much better is for the default for an end of a line to
be a <br />, unless that line were terminated with a / or something, in
which case it would flow on. Double EOLs of course stay as closing a
</p>.

Is this already switchable, if not can it be made switchable (or got rid
of altogether), or does the community prefer what we have now with %%%
anyway so I'd better just get on and code it myself?

Paul




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Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Line breaks in new markup

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Paul Bloomfield schrieb:
> Is the change to the way line breaks work in new markup intentional?

I think so.

> It seems that a single end-of-line (EOL) is parsed as an end of line in
> the HTML, rather than a <br />. To get a <br /> you have to force it
> with %%%. I cannot work with this - it is unlike any other wiki I know.

Well, we wanted to overcome wrapped text problems in certain 
envoriments, like this email client here. you simply don't know if the 
text is autmatiaccyl warpped or manually broken. you decide to break it 
either by starting a new paragrahp, or by using %%% or <br>.

> What would work much better is for the default for an end of a line to
> be a <br />, unless that line were terminated with a / or something, in
> which case it would flow on. Double EOLs of course stay as closing a
> </p>.

we never thought of a terminating "/". maybe jeff will try to implement 
this in his block parser.

> Is this already switchable, if not can it be made switchable (or got rid
> of altogether), or does the community prefer what we have now with %%%
> anyway so I'd better just get on and code it myself?

why not use <br> for intentional linebreaks?
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

RE: [Phpwiki-talk] Line breaks in new markup

[Paul B. <pa...@pa...>]

> why not use <br> for intentional linebreaks?

The answer to that question, at least, is easy! It just isn't wiki. The
first thing people like about a wiki is that what you type in the edit
box appears on the web page, you don't need to use <p> or <br /> tags.
If you type a new line in the edit box, you want a new line on the web
page, otherwise you wouldn't have typed it!

Please do not be offended, but you may as well say why not use <a href="
for links!


> we wanted to overcome wrapped text problems in certain Envoriments

The wrap="virtual" property which is being set in <textarea /> sorts out
most browsers surely? You could try overflow: auto; in the CSS as well
(I have not tested this and it won't work for older browsers). If this
doesn't work, the answer must be an 'I am using a stupid browser'
checkbox on the edit form for the remaining problems, rather than nerf
everybody. Or are you talking about e-mail submission of wiki pages?
Cool! Again though that is a special case that can be pre-parsed to make
it work.

Paul

[Phpwiki-talk] Re: Line breaks in new markup

[Martin G. <gim...@gi...>]

"Paul Bloomfield" <pa...@pa...> writes:

>> why not use <br> for intentional linebreaks?
>
> The answer to that question, at least, is easy! It just isn't
> wiki. The first thing people like about a wiki is that what you type
> in the edit box appears on the web page, you don't need to use <p>
> or <br /> tags.  If you type a new line in the edit box, you want a
> new line on the web page, otherwise you wouldn't have typed it!

No, I always break my lines at around 60-70 characters when I edit my
wiki pages, just like I do when I edit code, emails or any other ASCII
text document.

Without those linebreaks the text in the textarea is more difficult to
real (IMHO) and more importantly: it also makes the diffs more
difficult to read because a one letter change in a huge paragraph
(consisting of only a single long line) makes you compare the old long
line with the new long line.  I know how the changes within a line are
highlighted, but I still don't want to see the rest of the huge line
in the diff.

-- 
Martin Geisler                       My GnuPG Key: 0xF7F6B57B

See http://gimpster.com/ and http://phpweather.net/ for:
PHP Weather:   Shows the current weather on your webpage and
PHP Shell:     A telnet-connection (almost :-) in a PHP page.

RE: [Phpwiki-talk] Re: Line breaks in new markup - SOLUTION

[Paul B. <pa...@pa...>]

> Without those linebreaks the text in the textarea is more difficult to
real 
> (IMHO) and more importantly: it also makes the diffs more difficult to
read 
> because a one letter change in a huge paragraph (consisting of only a
single 
> long line) makes you compare the old long line with the new long line.
I 
> know how the changes within a line are highlighted, but I still don't
want
> to see the rest of the huge line in the diff.

You have a good point Martin, particularly re. diffs - however for my
purposes that issue is secondary to the natural flow for users.

Anyway, if anyone else wants line breaks in their HTML paragraphs where
they appear in their wiki text, the following mod should achieve it:

FILE     lib/BlockParser.php
CLASS    Block_p
FUNCTION finish
REPLACE  $content = TransformInline(trim($this->_text));
WITH     $content = TransformInline(str_replace("\n", '<br>',
trim($this->_text)));

IMHO It would be good to get this in the CVS, controlled by a flag in
index.php.

Paul


-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Geisler [mailto:gim...@gi...] 
Sent: 25 February 2004 13:00
To: php...@li...
Subject: [Phpwiki-talk] Re: Line breaks in new markup


"Paul Bloomfield" <pa...@pa...> writes:

>> why not use <br> for intentional linebreaks?
>
> The answer to that question, at least, is easy! It just isn't wiki. 
> The first thing people like about a wiki is that what you type in the 
> edit box appears on the web page, you don't need to use <p> or <br /> 
> tags.  If you type a new line in the edit box, you want a new line on 
> the web page, otherwise you wouldn't have typed it!

No, I always break my lines at around 60-70 characters when I edit my
wiki pages, just like I do when I edit code, emails or any other ASCII
text document.

Without those linebreaks the text in the textarea is more difficult to
real (IMHO) and more importantly: it also makes the diffs more difficult
to read because a one letter change in a huge paragraph (consisting of
only a single long line) makes you compare the old long line with the
new long line.  I know how the changes within a line are highlighted,
but I still don't want to see the rest of the huge line in the diff.

-- 
Martin Geisler                       My GnuPG Key: 0xF7F6B57B

See http://gimpster.com/ and http://phpweather.net/ for:
PHP Weather:   Shows the current weather on your webpage and
PHP Shell:     A telnet-connection (almost :-) in a PHP page.


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Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Re: Line breaks in new markup - SOLUTION

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Anecdote:
The last wiki I worked on recently used "-_" as linebreak.

PWP http://www.net-assistant.de/wiki/static/StartPage.html

Paul Bloomfield schrieb:
> FILE     lib/BlockParser.php
> CLASS    Block_p
> FUNCTION finish
> REPLACE  $content = TransformInline(trim($this->_text));
> WITH     $content = TransformInline(str_replace("\n", '<br>',
> trim($this->_text)));