phpwiki-talk

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] really long page loads and incomplete pages with 1.3.11-rc3

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Philip J. Hollenback schrieb:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> So I'm still experiencing this problem of pages not loading all the way.
>  I just tested a few minutes ago and it's still occuring.
> 
> Again, there are no errors in my apache logs and I can't troubleshoot
> much further because this is a hosted setup.
> 
> I've seen this connecting from several different locations and with
> several different browsers.  I've had other people in different cities
> check my page and they've seen the same problems.
> 
> But others on this list have replied that they have gone to
> www.hollenback.ent and everything looks fine.
> 
> The one suggestion I got was to sprinkle some print statements into the
> phpwiki code to see where it is dying.  I guess I will try that... does
> anyone else have any ideas?

Don't use printf, use echo instead.
There's some problem with print and output buffering I didn't care to 
report at the php-dev list yet.

Any printf in any plugin, template, code will eventually bypass the 
buffering, thus fooling the http headers.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/
http://phpwiki.org/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Bug or Feature write bold not work with *

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Jens D. schrieb:
> sorry for my english ;)
> We try to use rc3.
> If you read textformating rules you have to do this for a bold text:
> *Test* (or some othe things like !)
> 
> If you take *TEST* you became a bullet list an no bold text.
> Dont no, is it a bug or a litle feature ;)

It's a known little bug, nobody could solve so far.

There's a conflict with "*" marking a bullet list and "*word*" marking 
bold.

When
*some bold sentence* starts at the first column, it will be recognized 
as bullet list, and not as bold markup.


-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/
http://phpwiki.org/

[Phpwiki-talk] Bug or Feature write bold not work with *

[Jens D. <web...@pi...>]

Hi,

sorry for my english ;)
We try to use rc3.
If you read textformating rules you have to do this for a bold text:
*Test* (or some othe things like !)

If you take *TEST* you became a bullet list an no bold text.
Dont no, is it a bug or a litle feature ;)

regards

[Phpwiki-talk] Preferences error...

[<ge...@di...>]

I am receiving the following error when I try to Update my user preferences. 
Any idea why?

Fatal error: Undefined class name '_peardbpassuser' in
/home/digirave/public_html/h2g2/lib/WikiUserNew.php on line 1101

Thanks...

l8r,
Jake (aka gecko)

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] really long page loads and incomplete pages with 1.3.11-rc3

[Joel U. <uck...@no...>]

Thus spake "Philip J. Hollenback":
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> So I'm still experiencing this problem of pages not loading all the way.
>  I just tested a few minutes ago and it's still occuring.
> 
> Again, there are no errors in my apache logs and I can't troubleshoot
> much further because this is a hosted setup.
> 
> I've seen this connecting from several different locations and with
> several different browsers.  I've had other people in different cities
> check my page and they've seen the same problems.
> 
> But others on this list have replied that they have gone to
> www.hollenback.ent and everything looks fine.
> 
> The one suggestion I got was to sprinkle some print statements into the
> phpwiki code to see where it is dying.  I guess I will try that... does
> anyone else have any ideas?
> 
> If anyone on the list could go to www.hollenback.net and see if the
> bottom of the HomePage is cut off or not, I would appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks,
> P.

Just a note: I very much want to find a solution to this problem, but I 
won't have any time to work on it for about two weeks. Hopefully you guys 
will figure it out before then, though.


-- 
J.

[Phpwiki-talk] Install Troubles...

[<ge...@di...>]

hehe...well, I installed the script and everything was going well until that
first run when it 'sets itself up'.  Well, this is the error I got.  Any ideas?

Fatal error: Cannot redeclare _http_user() (previously declared in
/home/digirave/public_html/h2g2/configurator.php:71) in
/home/digirave/public_html/h2g2/configurator.php on line 70

Thanks...

l8r,
Jake (aka gecko)

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Plugin Whereabouts...?

[<ge...@di...>]

Ya know what...I just realised (after reading your reply) that since I 
installed
PHPWiki using my web hosts Fantastico script...not all the files may have been
installed.  Guess thats what I get for taking the easy way out.  Well, 
I am off
to download and install the script myself...  Thanks much...

Moral of the story...

'If you want it done right...do it your own damn self!'

l8r,
Jake (aka gecko)

Quoting Dan Frankowski <dfr...@cs...>:

> ge...@di... wrote:
>
>> Well, I went through the PHPWiki website I don't know how many times.  I am
>> trying to get the RawHtml plugin to work.  Well, I am trying to find 
>> it first. Where can I go to download plugins that don't originally 
>> come with PHPWiki?  Any
>> help is good help...Thanks...
>>
>> l8r,
>> Jake (aka gecko)
>>
>
> Jake,
>
> Most plugins are already in the original package, in lib/plugin. For
> example, lib/plugin/RawHtml.php is in there.
>
> I'm not sure if there's a place to download other plugins. Occasionally
> people email the list with it.
>
> Dan
>
>

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Plugin Whereabouts...?

[Dan F. <dfr...@cs...>]

ge...@di... wrote:

>Well, I went through the PHPWiki website I don't know how many times.  I am
>trying to get the RawHtml plugin to work.  Well, I am trying to find it first. 
>Where can I go to download plugins that don't originally come with PHPWiki?  Any
>help is good help...Thanks...
>
>l8r,
>Jake (aka gecko)
>  
>

Jake,

Most plugins are already in the original package, in lib/plugin. For 
example, lib/plugin/RawHtml.php is in there.

I'm not sure if there's a place to download other plugins. Occasionally 
people email the list with it.

Dan

[Phpwiki-talk] Plugin Whereabouts...?

[<ge...@di...>]

Well, I went through the PHPWiki website I don't know how many times.  I am
trying to get the RawHtml plugin to work.  Well, I am trying to find it first. 
Where can I go to download plugins that don't originally come with PHPWiki?  Any
help is good help...Thanks...

l8r,
Jake (aka gecko)

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] phpwiki , template and misc....

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Paolo Salvan schrieb:
> I am the (lazy) maintainer of the thinstation.sf.net website...
> 
> Some time ago, in order to let all the developers (and only them) to 
> edit the website, I've refactored the pre-existing web site in order to 
> use phpwiki 3.10 for page editing.
> 
> No user handling, only the administrator can edit pages; and all 
> thinstation developers know phpwiki admin pw.
> 
> I needed to leave our dear old look&feel to the website; in particular, 
> I needed the "wiki" to be embedded INSIDE a template of mine, and I 
> needed little visiblity the the wiki elements (like "Edit" buttons and 
> so on...).
> 
> I got something near what I needed patching the default template, but 
> the solution isn't clean and isn't maintainable....
> 
> Now we want all users to be able to edit the wiki, in a moderated way, 
> so we can maintain the control of the website...
> 
> Now I'm migrating to PhpWiki 3.11, as it have a "Moderator" plugin, and 
> I want to exploit this opportunity to get a more maintainable solution.

ModeratedPage does not work yet.
The last action to handle admin-side moderation approve/reject
has some bugs with email handling.

> I need some suggestion to get:
> - my custom HTML code included BEFORE and AFTER every wiki page, so I 
> can give the website the look&feel I need (look at thinstation.sf.net 
> and you'll understand what I mean)

The templates are very modular so you will find your place to put your 
stuff in.

> - wiki presence should be as discrete as possible: wiki buttons need to 
> be shown as simple, underlined text links, and not as graphical buttons

edit the css.

> ...Can I get this without manually patching some template, but simply 
> editing options, configuring plugins and so on?

no.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/
http://phpwiki.org/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] really long page loads and incomplete pages with 1.3.11-rc3

[Robert C. J. <ro...@ar...>]

At 9:01 on 5 May 2005, Philip J. Hollenback <ph...@po...> wrote:

> If anyone on the list could go to www.hollenback.net and see if the
> bottom of the HomePage is cut off or not, I would appreciate it.

I just went there. It took about 20 seconds to load. It 
looks like it's all there. Nothing obviously broken.

These were the bottom two lines on the page:

-----8<-----

    * Linux on the Toshiba Portege 610CT or the Fujitsu N3010 Lifebook

Owner: PhilHollenback Last edited on April 28, 2005 3:34 pm by PhilHollenbac

-----8<-----

Firefox 1.0.3 on Win98SE

-- 
Rob Croson (ro...@ar...)
Member of the Pegasus Mail and Mercury/32 Beta 
Test Teams
Pegasus Mail and Mercury/32 Portal: 
http://email.arcm.com
Visit the MailWiki: http://email.arcm.com/wiki

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] really long page loads and incomplete pages with 1.3.11-rc3

[Philip J. H. <ph...@po...>]

Hi Everyone,

So I'm still experiencing this problem of pages not loading all the way.
 I just tested a few minutes ago and it's still occuring.

Again, there are no errors in my apache logs and I can't troubleshoot
much further because this is a hosted setup.

I've seen this connecting from several different locations and with
several different browsers.  I've had other people in different cities
check my page and they've seen the same problems.

But others on this list have replied that they have gone to
www.hollenback.ent and everything looks fine.

The one suggestion I got was to sprinkle some print statements into the
phpwiki code to see where it is dying.  I guess I will try that... does
anyone else have any ideas?

If anyone on the list could go to www.hollenback.net and see if the
bottom of the HomePage is cut off or not, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
P.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:36:38 -0400, "Philip J. Hollenback"
<ph...@po...> said:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:10:30 +0800 (SGT), "Charles Corrigan"
> <ch...@ru...> said:
> > On Wed, April 27, 2005 12:01, Joel Uckelman said:
> > > Hmm. There were two people seeing this problem, right? If anyone
> > > who has direct access to their logs is experiencing this, it would
> > > be great to hear from you.
> > >
> > > Oh, another thing: Does this happen on every page, or just some?
> > > Do the pages this happens on have anything in common? Can you send
> > > me a link to a page that does this, so I can put the thing into my
> > > test wiki?
> >
> > Further data points: 1 - it happens on several different pages - the
> > first page when I go to the site [a] - whether that first page is
> > the HomePage or RecentEdits. 2 - Just hitting refresh does not
> > always resolve the issue, sometimes shift-refresh is required. 3 -
> > Once a page is correctly loaded, all subsequent pages normally load
> > OK. 4 - it never happens on my local server when I am doing
> > development. I am based in Singapore and the site above is hosted in
> > California. 5 - happens in both Firefox and in IE and happens both
> > at home and at work
> >
> > [a] my site is http://www.runegate.org/whitewall/wiki and is running
> >     from the CVS of about 48 hours ago
>
> My site behaves similarly to Charles'.  While I said earlier that it
> only happened with HomePage, it looks like it happens with whatever
> page is loaded first.  Once I load any page successfully, all
> subsequent pages seem to load correctly from then on.  So for example,
> if I start with:
>
> http://www.hollenback.net
>
> that page doesn't load.  Then if I immediately go to:
>
> http://www.hollenback.net/index.php/SilverFox
>
> that page loads correctly.  However going back to
>
> http://www.hollenback.net
>
> still shows a broken page.  It's not until I shift-reload
> http://www.hollenback.net at that point that HomePage starts working
> correctly.
--  
Philip J. Hollenback
ph...@po...
www.hollenback.net

[Phpwiki-talk] Trade site links with BetterWebServices.com Request

[Timothy R. <aff...@be...>]

Dear php...@li... at sourceforge.net 


I have spent a lot of time and effort to ensure my visitors gain the 
maximum benefit from their visit, and from what I have to offer. 

Our website offers potential web hosting customers a place to search 
for the web hosting provide that would best fit thier needs. Most other 
sites only show the top hosting companies who is paying the most to 
advertise there. I am just strating and looking to trade links and 
later have a directory of services. Please let me know if you are 
interested, Your time is greatly appreciated. Have a nice day.

If you are a web hosting company Let me know if you have an affiliate 
account and I will sign for it ASAP and add you to my search engine. I 
look forward to doing business with you.

Best regards,

Timothy Rhoads
Owner
BetterWebServices.com

[Phpwiki-talk] phpwiki , template and misc....

[Paolo S. <pao...@xv...>]

Hi,

I am the (lazy) maintainer of the thinstation.sf.net website...

Some time ago, in order to let all the developers (and only them) to 
edit the website, I've refactored the pre-existing web site in order to 
use phpwiki 3.10 for page editing.

No user handling, only the administrator can edit pages; and all 
thinstation developers know phpwiki admin pw.

I needed to leave our dear old look&feel to the website; in particular, 
I needed the "wiki" to be embedded INSIDE a template of mine, and I 
needed little visiblity the the wiki elements (like "Edit" buttons and 
so on...).

I got something near what I needed patching the default template, but 
the solution isn't clean and isn't maintainable....


Now we want all users to be able to edit the wiki, in a moderated way, 
so we can maintain the control of the website...

Now I'm migrating to PhpWiki 3.11, as it have a "Moderator" plugin, and 
I want to exploit this opportunity to get a more maintainable solution.

I need some suggestion to get:
- my custom HTML code included BEFORE and AFTER every wiki page, so I 
can give the website the look&feel I need (look at thinstation.sf.net 
and you'll understand what I mean)
- wiki presence should be as discrete as possible: wiki buttons need to 
be shown as simple, underlined text links, and not as graphical buttons

...Can I get this without manually patching some template, but simply 
editing options, configuring plugins and so on?

-- 
Paolo Salvan
_______________________________
X v i s i o n
Via Vigonovese 123A
35127 - Padova - Italy
+39 049 8709427 tel
+39 049 8709426 fax
www.xvision.it

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] PhpWiki RPM

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Joel Uckelman schrieb:
> Would anyone (other than me) find it useful to have the current release
> packaged as an RPM? If so, I'm willing to write the spec file and keep
> it up to date.

Sure.
Look at the debian package, but please make /wiki the default, not 
/wiki/index.php/

I'm aesthetically annoyed about the default usage in such a lot of 
installations.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/
http://phpwiki.org/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] PHP persistent caching

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Dan Frankowski schrieb:
> I have a question for experienced PHP developers. There is a lot of 
> information I can imagine wanting to cache across sessions in PHP. For 
> example in WikiLens, a ratings database, or per-item statistics (# 
> ratings, averages, etc). This is stuff that will fit in-memory for the 
> forseeable future.
> 
> What's the best way to do that in PHP? I've looked at a couple of PEAR 
> modules (e.g., "Cache" included in PhpWiki), and they seem to be 
> file-based. This is astonishing to me. Clearly memory can be 1000 times 
> faster than disk (although there are usually memory-based disk caches, 
> too). Is it really best to use file-based caches? I thought about 
> writing a shared memory-based cache, and a colleague warned me away from 
> it, saying shared memory access in PHP is iffy.
> 
> Thoughts?

Are you aware about our max-size limitation of sessions
how we are using them?
If this could be solved we could put much more into regular sessions
and wouldn't need external libs, such as
   http://www.phpclasses.org/browse/package/439.html

I'm running a stable windows server with Turck MMCache for some time now 
using shmem for the internal bytecode.
   http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/
http://phpwiki.org/

[Phpwiki-talk] PhpWiki RPM

[Joel U. <uck...@no...>]

Would anyone (other than me) find it useful to have the current release
packaged as an RPM? If so, I'm willing to write the spec file and keep
it up to date.

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] PHP persistent caching

[Joby W. <joby@u.washington.edu>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

You can also use a file based cache on tmpfs.  The link below is a great
article on the basics of using tmpfs.

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-fs3.html

You could even put an SQLite database on tmpfs, to get better performance.

Joby Walker
ITI SSG, University of Washington
- --
PGP key: https://staff.washington.edu/joby/joby-u-pub.asc


Dan Frankowski wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> I have a question for experienced PHP developers. There is a lot of
> information I can imagine wanting to cache across sessions in PHP. For
> example in WikiLens, a ratings database, or per-item statistics (#
> ratings, averages, etc). This is stuff that will fit in-memory for the
> forseeable future.
> 
> What's the best way to do that in PHP? I've looked at a couple of PEAR
> modules (e.g., "Cache" included in PhpWiki), and they seem to be
> file-based. This is astonishing to me. Clearly memory can be 1000 times
> faster than disk (although there are usually memory-based disk caches,
> too). Is it really best to use file-based caches? I thought about
> writing a shared memory-based cache, and a colleague warned me away from
> it, saying shared memory access in PHP is iffy.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: NEC IT Guy Games.
> Get your fingers limbered up and give it your best shot. 4 great events, 4
> opportunities to win big! Highest score wins.NEC IT Guy Games. Play to
> win an NEC 61 plasma display. Visit http://www.necitguy.com/?r=20
> _______________________________________________
> Phpwiki-talk mailing list
> Php...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwiki-talk
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCd6DRgA0gpghkf88RAt2bAKDCNZqcu72yeUuNd2i1+KSNX6r9EACdEsgC
0u68wnvtQJnpI1eqCJ7pSwM=
=deOK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] PHP persistent caching

[Dan F. <dfr...@cs...>]

Charles,

Thanks for your thoughts.

My first thought would be to use a shared memory segment. See 
http://us4.php.net/shmop. Memory leaks are an issue, but not a 
show-stopper. One has to program well and be careful to get a 
high-performing system.

Dan

Charles Corrigan wrote:

>Dan,
>
>My understanding is that, to avoid potential memory (and other resource) leaks taking down the webserver, there has been a conscious
>design decision to implement php as not keeping any memory context between http requests. I understand that there are ways around
>this but they are not straightforward.
>
>Regards,
>Charles
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Dan Frankowski [mailto:dfr...@cs...]
>>Sent: 03 May 2005 22:08
>>To: 'php...@li...'
>>Subject: [Phpwiki-talk] PHP persistent caching
>>
>>Folks,
>>
>>I have a question for experienced PHP developers. There is a lot of
>>information I can imagine wanting to cache across sessions in PHP. For
>>example in WikiLens, a ratings database, or per-item statistics (#
>>ratings, averages, etc). This is stuff that will fit in-memory for the
>>forseeable future.
>>
>>What's the best way to do that in PHP? I've looked at a couple of PEAR
>>modules (e.g., "Cache" included in PhpWiki), and they seem to be
>>file-based. This is astonishing to me. Clearly memory can be 1000 times
>>faster than disk (although there are usually memory-based disk caches,
>>too). Is it really best to use file-based caches? I thought about
>>writing a shared memory-based cache, and a colleague warned me away from
>>it, saying shared memory access in PHP is iffy.
>>
>>Thoughts?
>>
>>Dan
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This SF.Net email is sponsored by: NEC IT Guy Games.
>Get your fingers limbered up and give it your best shot. 4 great events, 4
>opportunities to win big! Highest score wins.NEC IT Guy Games. Play to
>win an NEC 61 plasma display. Visit http://www.necitguy.com/?r=20
>_______________________________________________
>Phpwiki-talk mailing list
>Php...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwiki-talk
>  
>

RE: [Phpwiki-talk] PHP persistent caching

[Charles C. <ch...@ru...>]

Dan,

My understanding is that, to avoid potential memory (and other resource) leaks taking down the webserver, there has been a conscious
design decision to implement php as not keeping any memory context between http requests. I understand that there are ways around
this but they are not straightforward.

Regards,
Charles

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Frankowski [mailto:dfr...@cs...]
> Sent: 03 May 2005 22:08
> To: 'php...@li...'
> Subject: [Phpwiki-talk] PHP persistent caching
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I have a question for experienced PHP developers. There is a lot of
> information I can imagine wanting to cache across sessions in PHP. For
> example in WikiLens, a ratings database, or per-item statistics (#
> ratings, averages, etc). This is stuff that will fit in-memory for the
> forseeable future.
> 
> What's the best way to do that in PHP? I've looked at a couple of PEAR
> modules (e.g., "Cache" included in PhpWiki), and they seem to be
> file-based. This is astonishing to me. Clearly memory can be 1000 times
> faster than disk (although there are usually memory-based disk caches,
> too). Is it really best to use file-based caches? I thought about
> writing a shared memory-based cache, and a colleague warned me away from
> it, saying shared memory access in PHP is iffy.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Dan

[Phpwiki-talk] PHP persistent caching

[Dan F. <dfr...@cs...>]

Folks,

I have a question for experienced PHP developers. There is a lot of 
information I can imagine wanting to cache across sessions in PHP. For 
example in WikiLens, a ratings database, or per-item statistics (# 
ratings, averages, etc). This is stuff that will fit in-memory for the 
forseeable future.

What's the best way to do that in PHP? I've looked at a couple of PEAR 
modules (e.g., "Cache" included in PhpWiki), and they seem to be 
file-based. This is astonishing to me. Clearly memory can be 1000 times 
faster than disk (although there are usually memory-based disk caches, 
too). Is it really best to use file-based caches? I thought about 
writing a shared memory-based cache, and a colleague warned me away from 
it, saying shared memory access in PHP is iffy.

Thoughts?

Dan

[Phpwiki-talk] Re: Getting RSS from a protected wiki

[Torsten B. <br...@ph...>]

Hallöchen!

Reini Urban <ru...@x-...> writes:

> Torsten Bronger schrieb:
>
>> I set user authentication to very strict values for our wiki.
>> Unfortunately, this means that my newsreader is unable to get the
>> RSS feed from RecentChanges.  Is it possible to authenticate via
>> the URL with some sort of parameters?  Or is it possible to
>> exclude the RSS from the authentication scheme?
>
> [...]
>
> RecentChanges should be viewable, otherwise you will get no rss feed.
> If you dont want to open that, setup another (action-)page which uses 
> the RecentChanges plugin and point the rss feed to this page.
>
> I assume you use ALLOW_ANON_USER = false.  Since you don't allow
> anonymous views why should anonymous rss work then?

I want to use "security by obscurity" if you wish.  I achieved this
today by the following hack.

In main.php, i added a "magic login":

    function updateAuthAndPrefs () {
        global $request, $magic_login;

        if ($request->getArg('magiclogin') == 'xx') {
            $magic_login = true;
            return;
        } $magic_login = false;
    ...

In PagePerm.php, I check of the "magic login":

        global $magic_login;
        ...
        if (!ALLOW_ANON_USER && !$magic_login) {
            if (!ALLOW_USER_PASSWORDS) 
        ...

And finally, in RssWriter.php, I attach "&magiclogin=xx" (or
"?magiclogin=xx") to all generated URLs, because my RSS reader
cannot resist to verify them.

It works, but if someone sees an obvious problem, I'd like to hear
it.  I don't know PHP and phpWiki well enough.

Tschö,
Torsten.

-- 
Torsten Bronger, aquisgrana, europa vetus

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] Re: link schema enhancements

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

> Reini Urban wrote:
>>Dan,
> First, let me say you should definitely *release* before pursuing any of
>  this. We can't merge Phpwiki latest changes until it has a stable
> release. We are still on 1.3.9, and it's hurting us. For example,
> ALLOW_ANON_EDIT is busted and it was not obvious to me how to fix it.
>
> Having said that ..
>
>>I saw in wikilens that you introduced a seperate category table,
>>and will (already) need a lot of more tables.
>
> We have added some tables, correct. To be precise:
>
> - page_urn, urn: these allow multiple rating widgets on a page
> ("RateMania"). Users like this, although the markup for it ("<?plugin
> RateIt ..>") is too awkward for them right now.
>
> - logging: we just added this in GalacticGopher for research purposes
> (what is the nature of the activity taking place?). GG is released on
> cs.wikilens.org (a new community) but not www.wikilens.org.
>
> - category: relationship table since we took categories out of page
> text. We were sad to abandon the wiki way in this regard, but casual
> users didn't understand the in-page thing and would erase the category
> membership.
>
> - chefmoz: a table to hold restaurant data for 'import' into a system
> with a Restaurant category.
>
>>I thought for 1.3.12, while working on the SemanticWeb, that we could
>> simply enhance the link table with an additional optional column which
>> describes a link relationship.
>>
>>The default would be "LinksTo",
>>for category this would be "CategoryOf", for other things it might be
>> "ClassOf", or any other, when properly handled by any plugin or lib or
>> InterWikiMap entry.
>>
>>I also want to extend certain InterWikiMap entries to define such
>> relations: "PropertyOf", "SubClassOf", "isa", "has", where each of
>> those relations specifies the relation of the current page to the
>> linked pagename.
>>
>>ALTER TABLE $link_tbl ADD relation CHAR(15) NOT NULL DEFAULT "LinksTo"
>
> This seems link a decent change in theory. A few comments:
>
> 1. It will only address our 'category' table from above. That's okay,
> though. I can imagine using it for other important relationships we've
> not yet modeled in the database: buddy (we have "pending", "waiting",
> now "email", and "buddy"); list item. Thus, it seems useful to me.
>
> 2. It should be an int. Since it is specifically for performance and I
> know DBs can process an integer index much faster than a character one,
> it seems right to have it be an int which is a foreign key into a
> relation_type table.
>
>>The StructuredData might then be able to query the link table.
>>
>>Metainformation about the links fort certain groups of pages can be
>> queried in a OWL fashion by some new format handlers.
>
> This I didn't understand. I don't see the meta-data anywhere, and I
> don't know what OWL is.

This is a buzzword for the SemanticWeb folks.
The specification of a knowledge base, in XML.

>>I will setup a wikipage for this proposal.
>>  http://phpwiki.org/LinkRelationship
>
> Okay.
>
>>What I want:
>>* Enrich the links
>
> ?

e.g.
statusWidget:Approved will display a acdropdown, with predefined values to
choose from from the Status page, using the Widget methods.
The default displayed value is Approved, the storage is the StatusWidget
link in this page. If you click on the arrow at the right the other values
are displayed to choose from, without further connection to the wiki
("static dropdown").
Just think of Excel.
LiveSearch uses a dynamic dropdown in contrast.

>>* Easily define PageGroups (lists of pages)
>
> This seems good. I want this as well, though interestingly for a
> different list than PageGroup.

I want for example define a pageset to export to CHM. (ziphtml)
Just some pages, not all pages. But not a simple commasep. list, more like
with  <!plugin-list ?>

>>* Use StructuredData (acdropdown - static js dropdowns)
>
> How is acdropdown related to structured data? What is static dropdown?
>
>>PageGroups:
>>
>>like "Status"
>>isa:List
>>   * Approved
>>   * Incorporated
>>   * Pending
>>   * Proposed
>>   * Rejected
>>and any list widget will just get "Status".
>>createWidget("status", "Status") will see that "Status" isa "List" and
>> calls the List() method of the Widget object, storing the result in the
>> relation "status".
>
> Not quite sure what these list widgets are that you're talking about and
>  why they have these statuses. Example?
>
> It looks almost like you're talking about a bug-tracking type of thing?

no, more like a general wiki-type, where links define not only
something to click on, but also relations and hierarchies.
something better than just backlinks.
like the few semanticweb wiki's around. (sorry doesn't have the links
right now handy, will link to that at the phpwiki page)

>>As plugin like this: <?plugin Widget relation=page ?>
>>e.g.
>>AnyPage: <?plugin Widget status=Status ?>
>>The state of the Status in AnyPage will be internally stored as link,
>> AnyPage => status:Proposed.
>>To explicitly define some relation simply write status:Proposed, which
>> creates no widget.
>>  (db: linkfrom=AnyPage,linkto=Proposed,relation=status)
>>But maybe some special relations should be allowed create their widgets
>> automatically.
>
> I'm not sure when I'd use the Widget plugin. I'd like to avoid it if I
> could, I think. I'm also not sure about the statuses.
>
>>The page "isa:Relation" could define the behaviour if the relations.
>> each isa:<> must have a proper class definition.
>
> This is potentially good. Not sure what you're planning to apply the isa
>  to yet.
>
>>AnyPage => statusWidget:Proposed
>>will display the widget and not the link, if
>>statusWidget => isa:Widget
>>
>>So the relation (here statusWidget) should search for an internal
>> class, and then for an external pluginname to define its methods.
>>If no special class is found, it will search for a pagename, which may
>> define an isa:<class> link, where a new search or the parent <class>
>> will start.
>>Yet undefined is what will happen with multimethods (multiple isa:
>> links in a page). CLOS handles this just fine, but I'm not sure about
>> our case here, how to define precedence. The link table is not ordered.
>>And CLOS is method centric, we are unfortunately object centric, where
>> multiple inheritance is hard.
>
> Sorry, I think I know CLOS (common Lisp, eh?), but I'm not sure what
> you're describing.
>
>>Categories are a bigger beast, being a container of multiple objects,
>> with its own properties (has:) and methods (search, display, edit,
>> list). I think my proposal will handle all this.
>
> Hmm.
>
>>What I get:
>>* Every link relation is bound to a pagename, but not necessarily
>>  to a revision.
>
> In our case, I was pretty sure we wanted our structured data and
> category membership at least to be bound to a particular revision. This
> allows one to 'revert' a page back to its old category, for example.

Sure. If the links define a relation it must be bound to the revision,
because it's in the text.

The link just links to the pageid/pagename, independent of the text.
The default relations will probably need a text on save, so that the Class
it refers to can be found.
Unless the class is already defined by some lib or plugin, and already
defined in the link table.

>>** So widget properties, categories and so on are self-describing and
>>  editable.
>
> I like this sentence, but I don't understand how it follows from the
> previous.

Because you must either setup a page to define the relations,
or write a plugin or lib which does more. Defining methods for unknown
classes (like Widget) and overriding some default methods.

>>** Easily define complex relations and inheritance.
>
> We thought about inheritance for awhile for our categories (e.g., Book
> => Fiction Book), and decided that normal users wouldn't understand it.
> We thought that what they usually really want is just subcategories
> (groupings).
>
> That doesn't mean you don't have some other use case with categories in
> mind.
>
>>* Easily extendable to the InterWikiMap syntax: <moniker>:<pagename>
>>  where moniker describes a relationship.
>
> Hmm. Not sure about this. We decided to take all category information
> out of pages. It'd be painful to now put it back in somehow. I'm not
> entirely opposed, though. I'd just have to try to remember all the
> reasons we took it out in the first place.

You can still hide it behind your Category plugin which uses your
StructuredData.
Just for regular wiki's I want it simple and general.

-- 
Reini Urban
http://phpwiki.org/   http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

[Phpwiki-talk] Re: link schema enhancements

[Dan F. <dfr...@wi...>]

Reini Urban wrote:

>Dan,
>  
>

First, let me say you should definitely *release* before pursuing any of 
this. We can't merge Phpwiki latest changes until it has a stable 
release. We are still on 1.3.9, and it's hurting us. For example, 
ALLOW_ANON_EDIT is busted and it was not obvious to me how to fix it.

Having said that ..

>I saw in wikilens that you introduced a seperate category table,
>and will (already) need a lot of more tables.
>  
>

We have added some tables, correct. To be precise:

- page_urn, urn: these allow multiple rating widgets on a page 
("RateMania"). Users like this, although the markup for it ("<?plugin 
RateIt ..>") is too awkward for them right now.

- logging: we just added this in GalacticGopher for research purposes 
(what is the nature of the activity taking place?). GG is released on 
cs.wikilens.org (a new community) but not www.wikilens.org.

- category: relationship table since we took categories out of page 
text. We were sad to abandon the wiki way in this regard, but casual 
users didn't understand the in-page thing and would erase the category 
membership.

- chefmoz: a table to hold restaurant data for 'import' into a system 
with a Restaurant category.

>I thought for 1.3.12, while working on the SemanticWeb, that we could
>simply enhance the link table with an additional optional column which
>describes a link relationship.
>
>The default would be "LinksTo",
>for category this would be "CategoryOf", for other things it might be
>"ClassOf", or any other, when properly handled by any plugin or lib or
>InterWikiMap entry.
>
>I also want to extend certain InterWikiMap entries to define such relations:
>"PropertyOf", "SubClassOf", "isa", "has", where each of those relations
>specifies the relation of the current page to the linked pagename.
>
>ALTER TABLE $link_tbl ADD relation CHAR(15) NOT NULL DEFAULT "LinksTo"
>  
>

This seems link a decent change in theory. A few comments:

1. It will only address our 'category' table from above. That's okay, 
though. I can imagine using it for other important relationships we've 
not yet modeled in the database: buddy (we have "pending", "waiting", 
now "email", and "buddy"); list item. Thus, it seems useful to me.

2. It should be an int. Since it is specifically for performance and I 
know DBs can process an integer index much faster than a character one, 
it seems right to have it be an int which is a foreign key into a 
relation_type table.

>The StructuredData might then be able to query the link table.
>
>Metainformation about the links fort certain groups of pages can be
>queried in a OWL fashion by some new format handlers.
>  
>

This I didn't understand. I don't see the meta-data anywhere, and I 
don't know what OWL is.

>I will setup a wikipage for this proposal.
>  http://phpwiki.org/LinkRelationship
>  
>

Okay.

>What I want:
>* Enrich the links
>  
>

?

>* Easily define PageGroups (lists of pages)
>  
>

This seems good. I want this as well, though interestingly for a 
different list than PageGroup.

>* Use StructuredData (acdropdown - static js dropdowns)
>  
>

How is acdropdown related to structured data? What is static dropdown?

>PageGroups:
>
>like "Status"
>isa:List
>   * Approved
>   * Incorporated
>   * Pending
>   * Proposed
>   * Rejected
>and any list widget will just get "Status".
>createWidget("status", "Status") will see that "Status" isa "List" and
>calls the List() method of the Widget object, storing the result in the
>relation "status".
>  
>

Not quite sure what these list widgets are that you're talking about and 
why they have these statuses. Example?

It looks almost like you're talking about a bug-tracking type of thing?

>As plugin like this: <?plugin Widget relation=page ?>
>e.g.
>AnyPage: <?plugin Widget status=Status ?>
>The state of the Status in AnyPage will be internally stored as link,
>AnyPage => status:Proposed.
>To explicitly define some relation simply write status:Proposed, which
>creates no widget.
>  (db: linkfrom=AnyPage,linkto=Proposed,relation=status)
>But maybe some special relations should be allowed create their widgets
>automatically.
>  
>

I'm not sure when I'd use the Widget plugin. I'd like to avoid it if I 
could, I think. I'm also not sure about the statuses.

>The page "isa:Relation" could define the behaviour if the relations.
>each isa:<> must have a proper class definition.
>  
>

This is potentially good. Not sure what you're planning to apply the isa 
to yet.

>AnyPage => statusWidget:Proposed
>will display the widget and not the link, if
>statusWidget => isa:Widget
>
>So the relation (here statusWidget) should search for an internal class,
>and then for an external pluginname to define its methods.
>If no special class is found, it will search for a pagename, which may
>define an isa:<class> link, where a new search or the parent <class> will
>start.
>Yet undefined is what will happen with multimethods (multiple isa: links
>in a page). CLOS handles this just fine, but I'm not sure about our case
>here, how to define precedence. The link table is not ordered.
>And CLOS is method centric, we are unfortunately object centric, where
>multiple inheritance is hard.
>  
>

Sorry, I think I know CLOS (common Lisp, eh?), but I'm not sure what 
you're describing.

>Categories are a bigger beast, being a container of multiple objects, with
>its own properties (has:) and methods (search, display, edit, list).
>I think my proposal will handle all this.
>  
>

Hmm.

>What I get:
>* Every link relation is bound to a pagename, but not necessarily
>  to a revision.
>  
>

In our case, I was pretty sure we wanted our structured data and 
category membership at least to be bound to a particular revision. This 
allows one to 'revert' a page back to its old category, for example.

>** So widget properties, categories and so on are self-describing and
>  editable.
>  
>

I like this sentence, but I don't understand how it follows from the 
previous.

>** Easily define complex relations and inheritance.
>  
>

We thought about inheritance for awhile for our categories (e.g., Book 
=> Fiction Book), and decided that normal users wouldn't understand it. 
We thought that what they usually really want is just subcategories 
(groupings).

That doesn't mean you don't have some other use case with categories in 
mind.

>* Easily extendable to the InterWikiMap syntax: <moniker>:<pagename>
>  where moniker describes a relationship.
>  
>

Hmm. Not sure about this. We decided to take all category information 
out of pages. It'd be painful to now put it back in somehow. I'm not 
entirely opposed, though. I'd just have to try to remember all the 
reasons we took it out in the first place.

Dan

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] really long page loads and incomplete pages with 1.3.11-rc3

[Stefan <son...@ba...>]

Hmm seems to be strange, i tested one hour later and it works fine again ...

I'am also using the 1.3.11 with default theme like yours and about 
11.000 pages and a lot of traffic but it runs fine. I'am using it with a 
mysql backend.

Did you looked at your memory and cpu of your server? It also can be a 
problem of your internet connection and the mtu size. Has someone else 
tested your problem at the same time?

Regards Stefan

Philip J. Hollenback schrieb:

>Hmmm, now the problem is back.  The HomePage loads quickly now, but it
>still doesn't load completely.  I tested the following:
>
>konqueror 3.1.4 on fedora core 1 
>firefox 1.0 on fc1 
>firefox 1.0 on win2000
>ie 6 on win 2000
>
>Results were exactly the same iwth all os/browser combinations: HomePage
>stops loading at just about the end of the page, on exactly the same
>character (my last name at the bottom of the page gets truncated to
>Hollenbac).
>
>So whereas loading the HomePage was really slow before and part of the
>page was cut off, loading HomePage now is pretty fast and less of the
>page is cut off.
>
>Interesting point: this _only_ happens with HomePage.  All the other
>pages load fine.  Now that is baffling.
>
>P.
>
>On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:47:28 +0200, "Stefan" <sonstiges@bayern-
>mail.de> said:
>  
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>did you solve your problem because it loads within a maximum of 5
>>seconds. and other pages within 2 seconds. This seems to be ok.
>>(Firefox 1.03)
>>
>>Regards Stefan
>>
>>
>>Philip J. Hollenback schrieb:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I upgraded www.hollenback.net to 1.3.11-rc3 a couple weeks ago.  I
>>>think it was always in my web browser cache since then so I didn't
>>>notice a big problem until now.
>>>
>>>Page load times on a fresh browser are horrible!  To demonstrate,
>>>kill your IE or Firefox, then start a new one and go to
>>>http://www.hollenback.net.  It loads really, really slowly (like 30
>>>seconds instead of expected 2-3), and actually craps out before it
>>>gets done with the page.  The rendering just stops, with a broken bit
>>>of html at the end.
>>>
>>>I thought at first this was due to my switch from the Crao theme to
>>>the shamino_com theme, but I tried switching back and the problem
>>>persists. Then I thought it was because of the RawHtml plugin and
>>>images at the bottom of my HomePage, but I removed those and it
>>>didn't help.
>>>
>>>IE always seems to stop rendering the page at the same place, right
>>>after HelpfulMuttHints.  A forced reload (shift-reload) brings up the
>>>page correctly.  Firefox stops rendering the page in a slightly
>>>different place but basically it does the same thing.
>>>
>>>Anybody got any helpful hints here?  This is a major problem
>>>because everyone who goes to my website for the first time will see
>>>a broken page.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>P.
>>>--
>>>Philip J. Hollenback ph...@po... www.hollenback.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tell us your software development
>>>plans! Take this survey and enter to win a one-year sub to
>>>SourceForge.net Plus IDC's 2005 look-ahead and a copy of this survey
>>>Click here to start!  http://www.idcswdc.com/cgi-bin/survey?id=105hix
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Phpwiki-talk mailing list Php...@li...
>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwiki-talk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>    
>>
>--  
>Philip J. Hollenback
>ph...@po...
>www.hollenback.net
>
>
>
>  
>