Re: [Phpwiki-talk] css classes, ids in markup

[John K. <jo...@ke...>]

At 23:25 +1300 13/10/05, Matt Brown wrote:
>I'm still vaguely uncomfortable with the idea of allowing users to add
>arbitrary classes to objects. I can't pinpoint exactly why though. I
>guess it's the whole trade off between flexibility and correctness. If
>you let users define arbitrary classes/ids you can bet it's going to be
>misused quicker than you can blink your eye.

I have two distinct kinds of user/site in mind.

Person A: wiki = easy. These people don't know their html from their 
http, and don't want to. My mum is one of these - she runs a web site 
for the old folks at the nursing home where she works. She helps them 
put their war memories etc online for their far-flung children to 
read:
http://sycamoreclose.com/Stan

Person B: wiki = fast. People like me, my friend in the Physics 
Department, and the Head of ICT at my daughter's school. We can code 
html pages in a text editor, we embrace W3C recommendations, we test 
our sites in 10 different browsers (okay, these days more like 3). 
BUT WE DON"T WANT TO! For me, wiki means when the client phones for a 
minor text alt to his site, I can do it whilst he's on the phone. No 
invoice required(TM). I've converted a bunch of my old html sites to 
phpwiki cos they're easy to maintain and I can hand over some of the 
day to day to the people who hold the information. I want an easy 
life - wiki gives it to me, in spades.

erson A and person B often work on the same site. I want to be able 
to fancy up the recipe page on my mum's site in a consistent fashion, 
using markup she can understand and reuse (with baby steps 
hand-holding the first couple of times). She doesn't need to mess 
with the css definitions, but she likes what happens to her 
dull-looking pages when I do (though on her site I'd probably leave 
them in .css files where she can't mess them up). A simple 'class' 
markup she could understand (and auto-ids) would enable us to work 
together to produce something visually spectacular without too much 
pain for her (no disrespect ma!).

My mum *enjoys* making wiki pages - it only takes a few seconds and 
she's got something the old folks can appreciate. I know from 
experience that making & altering web pages has a very high indolence 
threshold (I avoid it unless absolutely necessary). I enjoy making 
wiki pages too, but I crave more power!

Interestingly, though my mum started out completely computer-phobic, 
she's getting more savvy all the time. Sooner or later she could well 
end up being a Person B and I can hand over more of the site to her. 
But without the initial simplicity of wiki markup, she'd never have 
started.

So yes, users are dangerous, and they can harm themselves if they're 
given too much too soon too easily. But the clumsy 7-year old you 
train to carefully handle wood-working tools may well outstrip you in 
years to come. Let them have that chance. I don't want my users to 
forever live in a dumbed-down, M$ wizards, Eating for Dummies world. 
Give them the option of infinite power, but let them start small.

John.
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