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From: Chris R. <chr...@pr...> - 2004-08-13 12:41:48
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I have seen many suggestions for enhancing pagemester over the last few week. I have a suggestion which would be very helpful to many developers out on the net. =20 Would it be possible to associate meta-tags with a pagemaster page so that for a particular page the title,keywords,description etc could be derived from the page itself and not the overall template. =20 This would greatly increase exposure in search engines since the meta-data would be related to the page. =20 Just a thought Chris Ryder |
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From: Shaun M. <sh...@ae...> - 2004-08-16 20:03:36
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On 13 Aug 2004, at 13:41, Chris Ryder wrote: > Would it be possible to associate meta-tags with a pagemaster page so > that for a particular page the title,keywords,description etc could be > derived from the page itself and not the overall template. > > This would greatly increase exposure in search engines since the > meta-data would be related to the page. > Do the major search engines pay any attention to metadata elements any more? AFAIK Google at least completely ignores them although they will show the description element as the result of a search instead of the snip of text they've decided was relevant. The importance of metadata elements in your <head> are largely overrated by companies trying to sell you search engine optimization. IME, you still can't beat adding your site to DMOZ, which Google uses to get accurate results, and then getting it referred to from lots of other sites. Press releases given to slack journos on a slow day work the best. ;-) Shaun aegis design - http://www.aegisdesign.co.uk |
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From: Ryan R. <to...@gm...> - 2004-08-16 20:20:49
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It'd still be helpful to have that metadata on a per-page basis for use in internal searches (for example). Ryan Roland Application Developer Indiana University On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:25:45 +0100, Shaun Murray <sh...@ae...> wrote: > > On 13 Aug 2004, at 13:41, Chris Ryder wrote: > > Would it be possible to associate meta-tags with a pagemaster page so > > that for a particular page the title,keywords,description etc could be > > derived from the page itself and not the overall template. > > > > This would greatly increase exposure in search engines since the > > meta-data would be related to the page. > > > > Do the major search engines pay any attention to metadata elements any > more? AFAIK Google at least completely ignores them although they will > show the description element as the result of a search instead of the > snip of text they've decided was relevant. The importance of metadata > elements in your <head> are largely overrated by companies trying to > sell you search engine optimization. > > IME, you still can't beat adding your site to DMOZ, which Google uses > to get accurate results, and then getting it referred to from lots of > other sites. Press releases given to slack journos on a slow day work > the best. ;-) > > Shaun > aegis design - http://www.aegisdesign.co.uk > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media > 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 > Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. > http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 > _______________________________________________ > Phpwebsite-developers mailing list > Php...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers > |
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From: Shaun M. <sh...@ae...> - 2004-08-17 22:09:50
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On 16 Aug 2004, at 21:20, Ryan Roland wrote: > It'd still be helpful to have that metadata on a per-page basis for > use in internal searches (for example). I guess so but most people would be using the internal search module which doesn't pay any attention to meta elements and uses the database directly. I suppose if you were running phpwebsite as part of a larger system that used htdig then they'd be of some importance but mostly I meta elements aren't the important search engine tool people think they are. Good clean design, content near the top of the page, not navigation and simple URLs that are linked to from multiple places are much more important x 100. Shaun aegis design - http://www.aegisdesign.co.uk |
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From: Ryan R. <to...@gm...> - 2004-08-17 23:54:08
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I suppose it depends on how the PHPWS search is implemented. Differentiating between title, content, keywords and ranking each as desired, allows you to customize your search to work as you need it to. We currently conduct usability tests which allow us to modify the importance of a match in a page title vs a match in the page content to help tailor our search function to be most useful for our users. For example, in our division at work, we, like most, have Purchase Requests. However, people insist on calling them Purchase Orders (which differs from the University standard). While the title and visible content will use Purchase Request, placing Purchase Order in the meta tags, they can still find the page. I'm not saying that metadata is essential, but it helps in our current search function (which is incredibly important to us) as it gives us a mechanism to fine tune our search. Thanks, Ryan Roland Application Developer Indiana University On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:43:08 +0100, Shaun Murray <sh...@ae...> wrote: > > On 16 Aug 2004, at 21:20, Ryan Roland wrote: > > > It'd still be helpful to have that metadata on a per-page basis for > > use in internal searches (for example). > > I guess so but most people would be using the internal search module > which doesn't pay any attention to meta elements and uses the database > directly. > > I suppose if you were running phpwebsite as part of a larger system > that used htdig then they'd be of some importance but mostly I meta > elements aren't the important search engine tool people think they are. > Good clean design, content near the top of the page, not navigation and > simple URLs that are linked to from multiple places are much more > important x 100. > > > > Shaun > aegis design - http://www.aegisdesign.co.uk > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media > 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 > Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. > http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 > _______________________________________________ > Phpwebsite-developers mailing list > Php...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers > |
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From: Eloi G. <el...@re...> - 2004-08-19 18:04:04
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Shaun's right, metadata doesn't mean anything to the search engines anymore. >I'm not saying that metadata is essential, but it helps in our current >search function (which is incredibly important to us) as it gives us a >mechanism to fine tune our search. > > > Sounds like a good reason. You know Article Manager generates metadata, right? |
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From: Ryan R. <to...@gm...> - 2004-08-19 18:51:02
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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:36:59 -0400, Eloi George <el...@re...> wrote: > Shaun's right, metadata doesn't mean anything to the search engines > anymore. > When I first evaluated PHPWS. Pagemaster suited our needs more so than Announce. However, we have changed several processes to fit the tool, and thus, I plan on re-evaluating ArticleMan. However, from what I've seen, more and more people are being referred to using Article or Announce instead of Pagemaster. From this trend, I would ask what is the benefit of having pagemaster? If these other modules have the better functionality for putting content on a page, is there any reason FOR using pagemaster over these other modules? Ryan > >I'm not saying that metadata is essential, but it helps in our current > >search function (which is incredibly important to us) as it gives us a > >mechanism to fine tune our search. > > > > > > > > Sounds like a good reason. You know Article Manager generates metadata, > right? > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media > 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 > Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. > http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 > _______________________________________________ > Phpwebsite-developers mailing list > Php...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers > |
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From: Shaun M. <sh...@ae...> - 2004-08-20 17:45:37
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On 19 Aug 2004, at 19:50, Ryan Roland wrote: > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:36:59 -0400, Eloi George > <el...@re...> wrote: >> Shaun's right, metadata doesn't mean anything to the search engines >> anymore. >> > When I first evaluated PHPWS. Pagemaster suited our needs more so > than Announce. However, we have changed several processes to fit the > tool, and thus, I plan on re-evaluating ArticleMan. However, from > what I've seen, more and more people are being referred to using > Article or Announce instead of Pagemaster. From this trend, I would > ask what is the benefit of having pagemaster? If these other modules > have the better functionality for putting content on a page, is there > any reason FOR using pagemaster over these other modules? There's a number of other modules that work off of pagemaster pages. eg. kcart and phpwsrss and I submitted patches for menuman and blockmaker that allowed you to select a menu or block that only appears on particular pagemaster pages as well so that you can create more targetted menus and layouts to specific areas of your site without menu bloat. No reason why they couldn't be done for article too but so far they haven't. My hacks are really a bit of a bodge to get around the limited layout capabilites we have until Matt replaces the current layout engine. Article has a number of features I don't want on some sites. eg. the front page list of articles ala announce, the mainpage article that can't be switched off once you or a clumsy admin switches it on, and a number of other features that can just confuse the simple non-techie (templates and sections). I still prefer to use pagemaster and announce. They have separate functions that aren't best joined together like in Article on some sites. For me, Announce is great because it's simple - no templates, two boxes to fill in, one picture although I'd really like to lose the category, comment options and 'sticky' for submissions as they confuse some people. It's quick for banging up stories to a deadline Pagemaster is great because it keeps out of the news stream. If I'm adding an 'About' page I don't want it appearing in the most read articles list or popping up on the front page. I find Article is ok for a replacement for Announce but not for pagemaster provided you've got semi technical users and no outside submissions. You still need pagemaster for more static pages and Announce if you have simple users. It all depends on the type of site of course but that's my experience. Shaun aegis design - http://www.aegisdesign.co.uk |
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From: Eloi G. <el...@re...> - 2004-08-21 15:59:32
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Shaun Murray wrote: > I find Article is ok for a replacement for Announce but not for > pagemaster provided you've got semi technical users and no outside > submissions. You still need pagemaster for more static pages and > Announce if you have simple users. It all depends on the type of site > of course but that's my experience. I usually think of Article as an enterprise-level Pagemaster. If you want to keep it easy & simple for your users, use Announcements. If you just want to make a few static pages and not bother about installing 3rd party stuff, use PageMaster. If you want to get fancy & need to create a news portal, information distribution center or whatever, or if you have multiple editors, then you'll want to step up to Article Manager. I'd like to clarify something, though. Although there are an extraordinary amount of bells & whistles in Article Manager, most of them can be turned off & made invisible via the "Edit Configuration" screen. As examples: --The front page list of articles ala announce can be turned off by setting "Number of summaries to show on the Home Page" to 0. --Almost all selection lists (including templates, categories, and comment options) can be turned off. In fact, if you turn everything off, you end up with a data entry screen *almost* as simple as Announce's, although in terms of "ease of use" there'd still be no contest. --Individual articles can be kept out of the news stream by unchecking "Announce changes to this article on the homepage" while editing them. BTW Shaun, multi-language version 3.0 is going to require a redesign of the menu interface. As we discussed, if I can get rid of some buttons & keep usage somewhat intuitive, I should be able to accomodate you on the mainArticle thing. I'll be posting my ideas for public review on the phpwebsite/modules forum. |
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From: Jim W. <ji...@ke...> - 2004-08-25 15:59:28
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Ryan Roland said: > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:36:59 -0400, Eloi George <el...@re...> wrote: > > Shaun's right, metadata doesn't mean anything to the search engines > > anymore. > > > When I first evaluated PHPWS. Pagemaster suited our needs more so > than Announce. However, we have changed several processes to fit the > tool, and thus, I plan on re-evaluating ArticleMan. However, from > what I've seen, more and more people are being referred to using > Article or Announce instead of Pagemaster. From this trend, I would > ask what is the benefit of having pagemaster? If these other modules > have the better functionality for putting content on a page, is there > any reason FOR using pagemaster over these other modules? > Personally, I'd like to see Pagemaster remain a simple stripped down module. We've got some users that want even less :-) "functionailty" than pagemaster provides. Having a simple presentation with no frills, links, timestamps, etc., seems to be popular. Actually these are template issues, but handling those as a seperate module's template set (e.g. Pagemaster) while still maintaining the more advanced article or blog style features elsewhere seems to work well. Best, Jim |
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