phpwebsite-developers

[Phpwebsite-developers] 1.x Documentation

[Greg M. <drk...@co...>]

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Hash: SHA1

Matt,

Background:
As you asked I have posted a message here to continue the discussion
that we had today on IRC
http://www.phpwebsitemanual.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=103&date=20051101
. As you point out " drkludge, that would be cool. however, there isn't
a wiki for 1.x yet :)"  However, the idea will give you the 1.x pages to
link to.

Fallout Seems Close:
I figured out that 1.x was really close when I created the fallout doc
page http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Fallout
.  So I sense the need to switch over to work on 1.x release.  I
submitted an RFE for the secure_phpws.sh script here
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1345623&group_id=15539&atid=315539
.  It still needs work but gets the job done for starters.  The run
option may be flaky just 'cause I don't think I know all the files to
secure yet.  Matt will be happy to receive additional patches to the script.

The live linking to wiki page idea verses .txt files:
So how 'bout doc?  Well I was thinking I want to leave the 0.10.x wiki
documentation alone.  What I have been doing is creating content and
then point FAQ questions from the forums to the doc.  You can see the
samples here
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_FAQ .
I see that Matt has localization in the setup help files.  This gave me
and idea for how 1.x and 0.10.x can co-exist.  In the setup directory
are help files
pwd
/var/www/fallout2/setup/help
[root@bagheera help]# ls
database.en.txt  permissions.en.txt  sessions.en.txt
I have taken a bunch of these .txt files to seed the current wiki pages.
 The problem with this is that the users only read the .txt and run into
the same problem over and over again in the forums.  The .txt presume
that they have some prior knowledge that many do not have.  So for this
release I'd rather have the .txt files put in the wiki and accessible to
the community to edit.  The proposal then provides a mechanism to do
this and it will make the existing doc co-exist with the fallout doc.

So for example there is a database page in the wiki that is 0.10.x
oriented.  With a little work it can be 1.x oriented.  If Matt where to
create a constant to the wiki URL of
"http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title="  then
we're part way there.  So now if I copy the
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=database
page to
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=en_database
then the fallout adjustments can be made.  The existing database page
will work for the current 0.10.x users.  The new en_database page would
be localized.  Other languages would use the same page name but use
fr_database as their page name.  In the 1.x documentation, I would use
the [[en_database | database]] convention each time I wanted to wiki
link to the page.  I use this technique now when I want to refer to
[[web hosting company]]  as a plural i.e. [[web hosting company | web
hosting companies]].

The wiki allows forum posts to be massaged together into something
meaningful.  The phpwebsite community can help create the documentation
so that the core developer's don't have to do it all.  All we need is
for the code to point to the wiki pages verses text files.  I recommend
the en_ prefix because then each localization will be grouped together
on the all pages page
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Allpages
I think the that this will help the users find the documentation.  What
they do now is install via text file; fail; forum post; then if I answer
the post, I point 'em to the wiki page.  Some samples
https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3400102 and
https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3398961 .  See with the
new 1.x links they can point the the wiki page right away and start
looking for the answer.  Moreover, as I said in the Attribution on the
FAQ page "Dr kludge would also like to thank firefox. It was through the
Mozzilazine Knowledge Base (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Main_Page) that
he was inspired to write  FAQ questions that point back to specific
areas of the wiki documentation. This technique saves having multiple
places and sources of the same information and battle tests the
documentation. The  FAQ questions point to weaknesses in the main wiki
documentation that need to be enhanced for there to be an effective
answer to the question."

Regards,
Greg
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] 1.x Documentation

[Matthew M. <ma...@tu...>]

Ok Greg. I have had a night's sleep and have had coffee.

My mind is clear and I understand.

This is what I propose:

A core class for help

The config file for help contains the main wiki address

The help class will create either a link to the wiki or push the user
there automatically.

The help class will add the localization prefix to the file name.

We will go with en_filename (fr_filename, de_filename, etc.)

This work for everyone?

Thanks Greg,
Matt


On Wed, 2005-11-02 at 01:13 -0700, Greg Morgan wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Matt,
> 
> Background:
> As you asked I have posted a message here to continue the discussion
> that we had today on IRC
> http://www.phpwebsitemanual.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=103&date=20051101
> . As you point out " drkludge, that would be cool. however, there isn't
> a wiki for 1.x yet :)"  However, the idea will give you the 1.x pages to
> link to.
> 
> Fallout Seems Close:
> I figured out that 1.x was really close when I created the fallout doc
> page http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Fallout
> .  So I sense the need to switch over to work on 1.x release.  I
> submitted an RFE for the secure_phpws.sh script here
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1345623&group_id=15539&atid=315539
> .  It still needs work but gets the job done for starters.  The run
> option may be flaky just 'cause I don't think I know all the files to
> secure yet.  Matt will be happy to receive additional patches to the script.
> 
> The live linking to wiki page idea verses .txt files:
> So how 'bout doc?  Well I was thinking I want to leave the 0.10.x wiki
> documentation alone.  What I have been doing is creating content and
> then point FAQ questions from the forums to the doc.  You can see the
> samples here
> http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_FAQ .
> I see that Matt has localization in the setup help files.  This gave me
> and idea for how 1.x and 0.10.x can co-exist.  In the setup directory
> are help files
> pwd
> /var/www/fallout2/setup/help
> [root@bagheera help]# ls
> database.en.txt  permissions.en.txt  sessions.en.txt
> I have taken a bunch of these .txt files to seed the current wiki pages.
>  The problem with this is that the users only read the .txt and run into
> the same problem over and over again in the forums.  The .txt presume
> that they have some prior knowledge that many do not have.  So for this
> release I'd rather have the .txt files put in the wiki and accessible to
> the community to edit.  The proposal then provides a mechanism to do
> this and it will make the existing doc co-exist with the fallout doc.
> 
> So for example there is a database page in the wiki that is 0.10.x
> oriented.  With a little work it can be 1.x oriented.  If Matt where to
> create a constant to the wiki URL of
> "http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title="  then
> we're part way there.  So now if I copy the
> http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=database
> page to
> http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=en_database
> then the fallout adjustments can be made.  The existing database page
> will work for the current 0.10.x users.  The new en_database page would
> be localized.  Other languages would use the same page name but use
> fr_database as their page name.  In the 1.x documentation, I would use
> the [[en_database | database]] convention each time I wanted to wiki
> link to the page.  I use this technique now when I want to refer to
> [[web hosting company]]  as a plural i.e. [[web hosting company | web
> hosting companies]].
> 
> The wiki allows forum posts to be massaged together into something
> meaningful.  The phpwebsite community can help create the documentation
> so that the core developer's don't have to do it all.  All we need is
> for the code to point to the wiki pages verses text files.  I recommend
> the en_ prefix because then each localization will be grouped together
> on the all pages page
> http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Allpages
> I think the that this will help the users find the documentation.  What
> they do now is install via text file; fail; forum post; then if I answer
> the post, I point 'em to the wiki page.  Some samples
> https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3400102 and
> https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3398961 .  See with the
> new 1.x links they can point the the wiki page right away and start
> looking for the answer.  Moreover, as I said in the Attribution on the
> FAQ page "Dr kludge would also like to thank firefox. It was through the
> Mozzilazine Knowledge Base (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Main_Page) that
> he was inspired to write  FAQ questions that point back to specific
> areas of the wiki documentation. This technique saves having multiple
> places and sources of the same information and battle tests the
> documentation. The  FAQ questions point to weaknesses in the main wiki
> documentation that need to be enhanced for there to be an effective
> answer to the question."
> 
> Regards,
> Greg
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQFDaHUXxyxe5L6mr7IRAnA9AKCmbxc76eexlAJwBU0hCF5o3k7x6QCfXj3E
> KshzwLgBXkjG3pOpteE0aAw=
> =Noiz
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> _______________________________________________
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> Php...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers
-- 
Matthew McNaney
Electronic Student Services
Appalachian State University
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] 1.x Documentation

[Gregory M. <gre...@gm...>]

A few quick thoughts:

I thought "Fallout" was our code name for phpWebSite code still in
development and that it was not specific to the 1.x code.  For
example, phpWebSite 2.0 would be called Fallout when it is in
development. (when can we expect this Matt?  ;-)

If that's true, should the wiki page really be called:
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=3DFallout

Also, before we start putting links to the wiki in 1.x code, should we
decide if we were sticking with Mediawiki or if we were finally going
to change to the wiki module for phpwebsite?  The more places we put
links to the wiki now, the more we will have to change if we ever
convert the wiki in the future.

Other than that, I like the idea of using the wiki as the
documentation.  Much easier to keep up-to-date.

Regards,
Greg


On 11/2/05, Matthew McNaney <ma...@tu...> wrote:
> Ok Greg. I have had a night's sleep and have had coffee.
>
> My mind is clear and I understand.
>
> This is what I propose:
>
> A core class for help
>
> The config file for help contains the main wiki address
>
> The help class will create either a link to the wiki or push the user
> there automatically.
>
> The help class will add the localization prefix to the file name.
>
> We will go with en_filename (fr_filename, de_filename, etc.)
>
> This work for everyone?
>
> Thanks Greg,
> Matt
>
>
> On Wed, 2005-11-02 at 01:13 -0700, Greg Morgan wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> > Background:
> > As you asked I have posted a message here to continue the discussion
> > that we had today on IRC
> > http://www.phpwebsitemanual.com/index.php?module=3Dpagemaster&PAGE_user=
_op=3Dview_page&PAGE_id=3D103&date=3D20051101
> > . As you point out " drkludge, that would be cool. however, there isn't
> > a wiki for 1.x yet :)"  However, the idea will give you the 1.x pages t=
o
> > link to.
> >
> > Fallout Seems Close:
> > I figured out that 1.x was really close when I created the fallout doc
> > page http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=3DFall=
out
> > .  So I sense the need to switch over to work on 1.x release.  I
> > submitted an RFE for the secure_phpws.sh script here
> > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=3Ddetail&aid=3D1345623&g=
roup_id=3D15539&atid=3D315539
> > .  It still needs work but gets the job done for starters.  The run
> > option may be flaky just 'cause I don't think I know all the files to
> > secure yet.  Matt will be happy to receive additional patches to the sc=
ript.
> >
> > The live linking to wiki page idea verses .txt files:
> > So how 'bout doc?  Well I was thinking I want to leave the 0.10.x wiki
> > documentation alone.  What I have been doing is creating content and
> > then point FAQ questions from the forums to the doc.  You can see the
> > samples here
> > http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=3DUser_FAQ =
.
> > I see that Matt has localization in the setup help files.  This gave me
> > and idea for how 1.x and 0.10.x can co-exist.  In the setup directory
> > are help files
> > pwd
> > /var/www/fallout2/setup/help
> > [root@bagheera help]# ls
> > database.en.txt  permissions.en.txt  sessions.en.txt
> > I have taken a bunch of these .txt files to seed the current wiki pages=
.
> >  The problem with this is that the users only read the .txt and run int=
o
> > the same problem over and over again in the forums.  The .txt presume
> > that they have some prior knowledge that many do not have.  So for this
> > release I'd rather have the .txt files put in the wiki and accessible t=
o
> > the community to edit.  The proposal then provides a mechanism to do
> > this and it will make the existing doc co-exist with the fallout doc.
> >
> > So for example there is a database page in the wiki that is 0.10.x
> > oriented.  With a little work it can be 1.x oriented.  If Matt where to
> > create a constant to the wiki URL of
> > "http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=3D"  then
> > we're part way there.  So now if I copy the
> > http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=3Ddatabase
> > page to
> > http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=3Den_databa=
se
> > then the fallout adjustments can be made.  The existing database page
> > will work for the current 0.10.x users.  The new en_database page would
> > be localized.  Other languages would use the same page name but use
> > fr_database as their page name.  In the 1.x documentation, I would use
> > the [[en_database | database]] convention each time I wanted to wiki
> > link to the page.  I use this technique now when I want to refer to
> > [[web hosting company]]  as a plural i.e. [[web hosting company | web
> > hosting companies]].
> >
> > The wiki allows forum posts to be massaged together into something
> > meaningful.  The phpwebsite community can help create the documentation
> > so that the core developer's don't have to do it all.  All we need is
> > for the code to point to the wiki pages verses text files.  I recommend
> > the en_ prefix because then each localization will be grouped together
> > on the all pages page
> > http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=3DSpecial:A=
llpages
> > I think the that this will help the users find the documentation.  What
> > they do now is install via text file; fail; forum post; then if I answe=
r
> > the post, I point 'em to the wiki page.  Some samples
> > https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3D3400102 and
> > https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3D3398961 .  See with =
the
> > new 1.x links they can point the the wiki page right away and start
> > looking for the answer.  Moreover, as I said in the Attribution on the
> > FAQ page "Dr kludge would also like to thank firefox. It was through th=
e
> > Mozzilazine Knowledge Base (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Main_Page) that
> > he was inspired to write  FAQ questions that point back to specific
> > areas of the wiki documentation. This technique saves having multiple
> > places and sources of the same information and battle tests the
> > documentation. The  FAQ questions point to weaknesses in the main wiki
> > documentation that need to be enhanced for there to be an effective
> > answer to the question."
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> >
> > iD8DBQFDaHUXxyxe5L6mr7IRAnA9AKCmbxc76eexlAJwBU0hCF5o3k7x6QCfXj3E
> > KshzwLgBXkjG3pOpteE0aAw=3D
> > =3DNoiz
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> > Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Dow=
nload
> > it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> > Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phpwebsite-developers mailing list
> > Php...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers
> --
> Matthew McNaney
> Electronic Student Services
> Appalachian State University
> http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Downl=
oad
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> _______________________________________________
> Phpwebsite-developers mailing list
> Php...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers
>

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] 1.x Documentation

[Matthew M. <ma...@tu...>]

On Wed, 2005-11-02 at 08:20 -0600, Gregory Meiste wrote:
> A few quick thoughts:
> 
> I thought "Fallout" was our code name for phpWebSite code still in
> development and that it was not specific to the 1.x code.

Fallout will become phpWebSite when it completely replaces the current
software.

>   For
> example, phpWebSite 2.0 would be called Fallout when it is in
> development. (when can we expect this Matt?  ;-)

2 weeks after the release of 1.0.

> 
> If that's true, should the wiki page really be called:
> http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Fallout
> 
> Also, before we start putting links to the wiki in 1.x code, should we
> decide if we were sticking with Mediawiki or if we were finally going
> to change to the wiki module for phpwebsite?  The more places we put
> links to the wiki now, the more we will have to change if we ever
> convert the wiki in the future.

My thought is that the config file would determine where the help would
be located. That way people could use mirrors, their own wiki, or
whatever. I just need the first format. I assume it would be something
like:

$url =
sprintf('http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=%
s', $filename);



> 
> Other than that, I like the idea of using the wiki as the
> documentation.  Much easier to keep up-to-date.

I agree.

-- 
Matthew McNaney
Electronic Student Services
Appalachian State University
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] 1.x Documentation

[Shaun M. <sh...@ae...>]

On 2 Nov 2005, at 14:40, Matthew McNaney wrote:

>
> My thought is that the config file would determine where the help  
> would
> be located. That way people could use mirrors, their own wiki, or
> whatever.

Is there some way we could have both local versions and remote versions?

Like in Apple's help system where it lists the local copy first and  
below that any relevant articles on Apple's support site.

With sites for non-geeks, it's been very important to provide jargon  
free documentation and site specific documentation to get people  
using a site. Although the community wiki is excellent, it's  
sometimes too indepth for users. If we could allow a local tailored  
copy of the docs but provide pointers to online resources that would  
be very useful.

And I'd vote for using out own software every time.



Shaun
aegis design - http://www.aegisdesign.co.uk
aegis hosting - http://www.aegishosting.co.uk

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] 1.x Documentation

[Matthew M. <ma...@tu...>]

On Wed, 2005-11-02 at 15:12 +0000, Shaun Murray wrote:

> Is there some way we could have both local versions and remote versions?

Yes there could be local copies of the files. I would start by writing
my documentation. Then we could have occasional wiki exports to replace
these files.


> With sites for non-geeks, it's been very important to provide jargon  
> free documentation and site specific documentation to get people  
> using a site. Although the community wiki is excellent, it's  
> sometimes too indepth for users.

I have heard that as the argument FOR using Wiki instead of local docs. 
People have read my docs and said I make too many assumptions on the
ability of the reader.

> If we could allow a local tailored  
> copy of the docs but provide pointers to online resources that would  
> be very useful.

I guess a setting for using local docs instead of wiki. Perhaps this
should be a per document setting?

Thanks Shaun.

Any other suggestions or additions?

-- 
Matthew McNaney
Electronic Student Services
Appalachian State University
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] 1.x Documentation

[Greg M. <drk...@co...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Matthew McNaney wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-11-02 at 15:12 +0000, Shaun Murray wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is there some way we could have both local versions and remote versions?
> 
> 
> Yes there could be local copies of the files. I would start by writing
> my documentation. Then we could have occasional wiki exports to replace
> these files.
> 

I like this idea but I think there are issues with it.

So depending on the level of "local" documentation, the user will still
post the same FAQ question on the forum over and over again.  They may
hit the local text file before the updated wiki file.

If there is a glaring issue with the "local" file, then how long will it
be before the "local" file is fixed and a new release has the needed
change?  Moreover, how long before the user upgrades to see the change?
 Most of phpWebSite users are not going to cvs co the latest text files.

Finally, for all intents and purposes I believe those local files will
not be updated.  If Matt has to choose between publishing code or
writing documentation verses conducting an on-site training at campus,
my bets are on the code and the on-site class.  The documentation slips
another week and then month and then year and then years.  That
shouldn't be taken as bashing Matt.  I think it reflects the reality of
corporate America. Matt will work on what pays the bills.  If I felt the
local files would be updated, then wouldn't these local files be updated
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu/manual/html/bk01.html .  Those came
out--for 0.9.3 or so?  How long has it been since the existing text
files have been updated?

I agree that it is a good idea, but I don't think it will happen.  We
don't have the Apple dollars to risk diffusing the documentation effort
between a local and remote copy of the same documentation.

> 
> 
>>With sites for non-geeks, it's been very important to provide jargon  
>>free documentation and site specific documentation to get people  
>>using a site. Although the community wiki is excellent, it's  
>>sometimes too indepth for users.
> 
> 
> I have heard that as the argument FOR using Wiki instead of local docs. 
> People have read my docs and said I make too many assumptions on the
> ability of the reader.

Part of it may be the market Matt serves.  There's a world of difference
when you can put out a text file of minimal instructions, then walk down
the hall and help the Appstate campus user design a new theme.  Matt can
make those assumptions of the user because if the user he's standing in
front of doesn't get a concept, then Matt can go install the software
for them, for example.

I don't think that the depth is an issue.  If fact I see the opposite.
The depth is too much for someone like, Wendall911, mhnoyes, or
singletrack.  However, the wiki is filling the gap that the existing
text files don't cover. I use wiki pages URLs to use in forum posts to
answer the questions that the text file does not have.  That's the whole
point behind of this page
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_FAQ .
Please look at the history page here
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=User+FAQ&action=history&limit=100&offset=0
.  The FAQ points back to a pin point location for the user to solve
their problem.  Text files cannot do this.  I can instantaneously refine
documentation, create diffs, update "CVS", create FAQs with the press of
a wiki save button verses learn docbook, try to get the local catalog
straight, compile it, fix the tag errors, CVS update, learn another
docbook favorable editor, perform a unified diff, submit a bug or RFE
for the txt file change....  It looks like the User FAQ page alone has
had around 100 updates between Jan 30 and Oct 30 of this year.  Most of
the text files are were last updated circa version 0.9.3.

> 
> 
>>If we could allow a local tailored  
>>copy of the docs but provide pointers to online resources that would  
>>be very useful.
> 
> 
> I guess a setting for using local docs instead of wiki. Perhaps this
> should be a per document setting?
> 
> Thanks Shaun.
> 
> Any other suggestions or additions?
> 

Perhaps one final page to make the en_* concept more concrete.  Take a
look at this page
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Quick_Index
and imagine that is the language pages have a similar page.  This would
one would be en_*

Greg
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Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] 1.x Documentation

[Greg M. <drk...@co...>]

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Gregory Meiste wrote:
> A few quick thoughts:
> 
> I thought "Fallout" was our code name for phpWebSite code still in
> development and that it was not specific to the 1.x code.  For
> example, phpWebSite 2.0 would be called Fallout when it is in
> development. (when can we expect this Matt?  ;-)
> 
> If that's true, should the wiki page really be called:
> http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Fallout

This page will always be a quick and dirty how to install fallout page
regardless of the version.  It can be updated to 2.x whenever that
happens.  Perhaps the idea will be clear when you look at the bottom of
the install page
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Installation_Guide#Other_Installations
.  The installation type is called Beta Version Installations i.e.
[[fallout | Beta Version Installations]].  It will always be the fallout
page.

Here's the sample seed page for the 1.x version
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=En_database.
 Note mediawiki initcaps the title but you can still reference the page
as en_database or "en database" without the quotes.  Note that the
existing 0.9.x to 0.10.x will still be available here as
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Database_Configuration
.  I will borrow heavily from Database Configuration to add to the 1.x
en database page.

Note that the French page would be fr database.  That way the
application code won't have to worry about the using fr le database, etc.

> 
> Also, before we start putting links to the wiki in 1.x code, should we
> decide if we were sticking with Mediawiki or if we were finally going
> to change to the wiki module for phpwebsite?  The more places we put
> links to the wiki now, the more we will have to change if we ever
> convert the wiki in the future.

I recommended that the phpWebSite code use a constant of
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title= in one
place.  Hopefully the en_database name would be unchanged regardless of
the wiki engine used.  If the wiki changes to, say,
"http://phpwebsite.sf.net/wiki/index.php?title=" then just one location
in the code has to change.  The URL constant and the desired page are
concatenated to form the wiki link.

Guys I am fired up and ready to go for the 1.x release.  After I made
the fallout page last Sunday, I realized how close it was to consider
release issues.  I don't plan to update the existing pages for 0.10.x.
I really want to have documentation ready for the users by the time the
final 1.x release candidate hits the streets.  I believe I can have a
working en_* system by the end of this weekend.  Blindman, I don't see
those people who want all of the dog food to be eaten contributing to
the dog food documentation while you are coding.  I seeded the page here
http://phpwebsite-comm.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wiki but no
one else is contributing.  Just as bitkeeper was used to fill a need
before git could self host the kernel or CVS was used until subversion
was ready, I want to use something now to get going on 1.x.  Again, the
fallout wiki page changed my course of action.  I don't plan on
answering many 0.10.x forum posts or create/edit any more 0.10.x wiki
pages.  Someone else needs to figure out the way of doing business with
the wiki engine, fatcat, and photoalbums.
> 
> Other than that, I like the idea of using the wiki as the
> documentation.  Much easier to keep up-to-date.
> 
Yep! Kind-of like giving users access to RoboHelp so that they can
change the F1 help key help documentation.

Greg
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