phpwebsite-developers — For our development team.

[Phpwebsite-developers] special menu for accessibility

[Mauro C. <mau...@st...>]

I'm doing an accessible portal (WAI AA) with phpwebsite.
I need a special nemu for accessibility reason.
I need a path menu like this:
home > current category > sub category > Module Name > title object
it's possible to do this?
Second i need to do a menu in the left this only the category of first level
(this is not a problem) and in the center of the page insert the category
node of the current subcategory.
Any suggestion!
Tanks!
Bye!

Mauro

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Dynamic Translation (long)

[Eloi G. <el...@re...>]

+1
That sounds really cool.


Matthew McNaney wrote:

>I want to add a mirror option to the branch site
>creation. That way you could post to the hub and it would disseminate
>down to the other branches. The way we see it:
>  
>
*
*

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Dynamic Translation (long)

[Tony M. <to...@ht...>]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Matthew McNaney wrote:

> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 13:15, Ulf Hallmann wrote:

<Snip>

> >  - distributing different languages across different sites would
> > result in incomplete content in some languages.
> 
> The same thing would happen with different languages on the same site.

I don't think that it's possible to have dynamic translations for content 
is necessarily a good thing.  If you think it is, go to 
babelfish.altavista.digital.com and translate "the spirit is willing, but 
the flesh is weak" from Italian to English and back again. :)

What would be really nice though, is to have a language module where you 
could look up the language preferance of the user and support a language 
tag in the URL, such a ?lang=en on the end of the page.  Then you could 
create web pages with a selectable language attribute, and have it 
presented to the user who requests the information.  Then the page in 
multiple languages would be near the same place.

I don't think you'll ever get away from having to produce multiple pages 
of content.

(The possibilities are endless.  You could even code in a "translate this 
page for us" button and have a user submit a translation of your page for 
your approval :))

-Tony

-- 
Hometown Enterprises Internet Services
Professional, affordable web design and hosting.
http://www.hteis.com/

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Dynamic Translation (long)

[Matthew M. <ma...@tu...>]

> Oooh. Can we have the other way round as well so that branches can 
> promote the content up to the hub? Ideally allowing say the 
> announcement summary on the hub to click through to the branch site for 
> the full article?

Ya I would like that as well. It is planned :)

-- 
Matthew McNaney
Internet Systems Architect
Electronic Student Services
Appalachian State University
Phone: 828-262-6493
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu
http://ess.appstate.edu

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Dynamic Translation (long)

[Mike N. <mh...@us...>]

On Tue, 2004-07-06 at 07:42, Shaun Murray wrote:
> On 6 Jul 2004, at 15:17, Matthew McNaney wrote:
> > One last thing. I never said there wouldn't be tools to help you with
> > the language sites. I want to add a mirror option to the branch site
> > creation. That way you could post to the hub and it would disseminate
> > down to the other branches. The way we see it:
> >
> > 1) post on the hub
> > 2) go to the branch
> > 3) the content item is waiting approval for posting
> > 4) edit the item into the other language and approve it
> 
> Oooh. Can we have the other way round as well so that branches can 
> promote the content up to the hub? Ideally allowing say the 
> announcement summary on the hub to click through to the branch site for 
> the full article?

Shaun,
The phpwsrssfeeds module will address some of this with aggregation. The
rest of it will/may be addressed in 0.9.4 work flow.

-- 
Mike Noyes <mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net>
http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/
SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Dynamic Translation (long)

[Shaun M. <sh...@ae...>]

On 6 Jul 2004, at 15:17, Matthew McNaney wrote:
>
> One last thing. I never said there wouldn't be tools to help you with
> the language sites. I want to add a mirror option to the branch site
> creation. That way you could post to the hub and it would disseminate
> down to the other branches. The way we see it:
>
> 1) post on the hub
> 2) go to the branch
> 3) the content item is waiting approval for posting
> 4) edit the item into the other language and approve it

Oooh. Can we have the other way round as well so that branches can 
promote the content up to the hub? Ideally allowing say the 
announcement summary on the hub to click through to the branch site for 
the full article?

Shaun
aegis design - http://www.aegisdesign.co.uk

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Dynamic Translation (long)

[Matthew M. <ma...@tu...>]

On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 13:15, Ulf Hallmann wrote:
> would that mean that information-driven sites would have to stick on
> the current version and remain un-updatable for good?

No it doesn't, for reasons I will explain in a moment.

> Running different sites for each language is not an option for me, as
> it creates an admin overhead in most cases. Many sites are only
> partially translated (ony the most important "core" information)

If there was a dynamic system, this same problem could arise. Unless the
administrator translates the content, the site will have language gaps.
Compare the differences:

1) One site: admin enters the original content. admin then re-enters the
content for each language.

2) Multiple Sites: admin enters the original content on the hub. Admin
re-enters content on each language branch site.

Same amount of work.

>  - distributing different languages across different sites would
> result in incomplete content in some languages.

The same thing would happen with different languages on the same site.

>  Which leads to users getting confused.

Only users who would visit two different versions of the same site would
get confused, and that is not likely. Even were it likely, they would
surely understand, "oh they have translated this on my site yet."

>  Not to speak about having N systems to upgrade one a new version of
> the framwork gets release, to apply N patches, N sets of custom code
> and opening N times more potential security issues....

Branches don't work that way :) When you update the hub, all the
branches are updated as well. There will always be just ONE code base.
That is how we are able to update 30+ university sites at one time.

> For now, the current debate is IMHO more a political than a technical
> issue (as solutions exist which might not be optimal but which are
> sufficient for a lot of users).

I disagree. It IS a technical issue as I have to program it and feel
good about asking other developers and users to implement it. If I were
not concerned with usability, then 0.9.4 would 1) not have language
capabilities, 2) would not work in Windows, 3) would only work in MySQL.
In each of these cases however, I was able, through some effort, to
accommodate other versions.

>  My fear is, once you go ahead and apply the po technology, the lang
> module and some nice opportunities that come with it vanish.

I wrote the language module and I am writing the implementation of the
PO technology. It surprises me that people think I am changing this to
somehow make the program worse. If I thought updating the language
module was the way to go, I would do it. It isn't, and I'm not.

> I guess what I am trying to acomplish is to reduce the hassle you are
> talking about - for me some improvements in the lang mod and in the
> guidelines of it being supported by other mods would do the trick.

The only hassle, for me, would be maintaining the language module
instead of looking at new opportunities.

Run a Google search on PO files. Notice the amount of developers who
already use it. Creating something proprietary is more of a hassle than
using an accepted and embraced technology.

One last thing. I never said there wouldn't be tools to help you with
the language sites. I want to add a mirror option to the branch site
creation. That way you could post to the hub and it would disseminate
down to the other branches. The way we see it:

1) post on the hub
2) go to the branch
3) the content item is waiting approval for posting
4) edit the item into the other language and approve it

To me, this is an orderly, simple procedure.

-- 
Matthew McNaney
Internet Systems Architect
Electronic Student Services
Appalachian State University
Phone: 828-262-6493
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu
http://ess.appstate.edu

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Dynamic Translation (long)

[Eloi G. <el...@re...>]

Hi Ulf!

I spent a couple months trying to find a way to get the Article Manager 
module to work with the Language module.  While I came up with workable 
solutions, none of them were easy to use.  Like Matt noted, almost all 
of them generated so much extra db traffic that anything more than 
personal sites would have to be hosted on dedicated servers!

In hopes of writing an alternative Language mod, I researched what other 
apps were doing.  All of them had various flaws.  At the end I realized 
that other than subscribing to a dynamic language server like babelfish, 
content mirroring is the only workable, easy-to-use, easy-to-administer 
option. 

However, you don't need to set up separate sites.  Using 0.94's group 
restrictions (or even a language identifier picklist Matt?)  You can say 
that an item can be seen only by German group members.  That way there's 
no extra queries needed. 

 From there everything stays easy if you keep it simple.  There're no 
fallback languages or automatic features or centralized modules/data 
stores.  They always mess things up over a period of time, anyway.  The 
only change that a module would make to make things any easier is to 
include an additional field to be used as a "translation group 
identifier".  That way the module would know that everything with an 
identifier of "ll3ee" are translations of each other, but that should be 
used only for editing & administration purposes only -- not for display 
because it would create an additional load on the server.

Matt, I haven't looked at the 0.94 code yet -- is it possible for 
"special-use" groups to be created?  Meaning that you can check a box 
designating it as a language group without creating extra tables, 
queries & stuff?

-Eloi-


Ulf Hallmann wrote:

> hmm.
>
> would that mean that information-driven sites would have to stick on 
> the current version and remain un-updatable for good? Bummer. As I 
> said, I am running some sites like that. They work great -  am willing 
> to show you, but I dont want to post the links across the whole list.
>
> I am not sure if I am asking for so much. I understand the issue of 
> huge language tables, of un-translated comments and your strive for 
> perfection. Hoewer, perfection might not be what the business out 
> there is asking for. I for one need a reliable system that works and 
> that can handle more than one language.
>
> Running different sites for each language is not an option for me, as 
> it creates an admin overhead in most cases. Many sites are only 
> partially translated (ony the most important "core" information) - 
> distributing different languages across different sites would result 
> in incomplete content in some languages. Which leads to users getting 
> confused. Not to speak about having N systems to upgrade one a new 
> version of the framwork gets release, to apply N patches, N sets of 
> custom code and opening N times more potential security issues....
>
> For now, the current debate is IMHO more a political than a technical 
> issue (as solutions exist which might not be optimal but which are 
> sufficient for a lot of users). My fear is, once you go ahead and 
> apply the po technology, the lang module and some nice opportunities 
> that come with it vanish.
>
> I guess what I am trying to acomplish is to reduce the hassle you are 
> talking about - for me some improvements in the lang mod and in the 
> guidelines of it being supported by other mods would do the trick.
>
> Ulf
>
>
> Matthew McNaney wrote:
>
>>a lot.
>>
>>  
>>
> *_______________*

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Dynamic Translation (long)

[Mike N. <mh...@us...>]

On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 10:15, Ulf Hallmann wrote:
> would that mean that information-driven sites would have to stick on
> the current version and remain un-updatable for good? Bummer. As I
> said, I am running some sites like that. They work great -  am willing
> to show you, but I dont want to post the links across the whole list.

Ulf,
Can you point the list members to a document (see example link below)
outlining your system? I'd like to see a formal proposal, patch (cvs
unified diff), or prof-of-concept. Is it a true i18n solution or just
l10n? Thanks.

        W3C Internationalization Activity
        http://www.w3.org/International/

        Note: if you have a patch (cvs unified diff) we can host it at
        -comm.

-- 
Mike Noyes <mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net>
http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/
SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Dynamic Translation (long)

[Ulf H. <U1...@ul...>]

hmm.

would that mean that information-driven sites would have to stick on the 
current version and remain un-updatable for good? Bummer. As I said, I 
am running some sites like that. They work great -  am willing to show 
you, but I dont want to post the links across the whole list.

I am not sure if I am asking for so much. I understand the issue of huge 
language tables, of un-translated comments and your strive for 
perfection. Hoewer, perfection might not be what the business out there 
is asking for. I for one need a reliable system that works and that can 
handle more than one language.

Running different sites for each language is not an option for me, as it 
creates an admin overhead in most cases. Many sites are only partially 
translated (ony the most important "core" information) - distributing 
different languages across different sites would result in incomplete 
content in some languages. Which leads to users getting confused. Not to 
speak about having N systems to upgrade one a new version of the 
framwork gets release, to apply N patches, N sets of custom code and 
opening N times more potential security issues....

For now, the current debate is IMHO more a political than a technical 
issue (as solutions exist which might not be optimal but which are 
sufficient for a lot of users). My fear is, once you go ahead and apply 
the po technology, the lang module and some nice opportunities that come 
with it vanish.

I guess what I am trying to acomplish is to reduce the hassle you are 
talking about - for me some improvements in the lang mod and in the 
guidelines of it being supported by other mods would do the trick.

Ulf


Matthew McNaney wrote:

>a lot.
>
>  
>

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] textSettings.php for multiple branches?

[Shaun M. <sh...@ae...>]

On 30 Jun 2004, at 21:24, Tony Miller wrote:

> I have an interesting dilemma.  I have multiple sites as branch sites 
> off
> of my hub code.  They are sharing the same textSettings.php it seems.  
> So
> there doesn't appear to be a way to customize the "censoring" and 
> allowed
> tags for each branch.

That's the case currently. Also, datesettings, imagetypes, thumbnail 
sizes, image sizes and a bunch of other things are all global instead 
of local to the branches as many are either picked up from the /conf/ 
directory in the main branch or from /mod/xxx/conf/ for each module. 
There's a long standing RFE for at least some of those to be changed.

conf files that can not be overridden by settings configured by a web 
config are evil, IMHO. They are often overlooked, unknown and easily 
overwritten when upgrading a module.

Shaun
aegis design - http://www.aegisdesign.co.uk

[Phpwebsite-developers] Dynamic Translation (long)

[Matthew M. <ma...@tu...>]

A couple of developers have brought up dynamic language capabilities
in 0.9.4. Right now, we have no plans to support it on release. This
does not mean it never will, just not initially.

Here is our position. If you want to run a site in two or more
languages, you need to create a mirror site for each language. When
you create an announcement, page, block, etc. on one site, you will
need to log into the alternate site and enter it again in the new
language. Our program will handle the translation of the static
elements but you are responsible for the dynamic content.

Here is the position of others as I understand it. They do not want to
have separate sites. They want one site that translates not only the
static content, but the dynamic content as well. If a user logs into
the site, it should change both static and dynamic based on their
browser preferences.

I have problems with that.

Say the one site could do that. What of the comments? Three languages
on one site. Would it not be simpler to have a site dedicated to one
language so all those who comment can understand one another?

If your user interactivity is low (you gear your site less toward
community and more toward information) then this may not be an
issue. Let's look at some examples of how dynamic language could get
done.

The first example covers the process by which 0.9.3 worked. 0.9.3
created a table per dynamic language. The table contained the name of
the table it was emulating and the id of the content. When the dyn()
function was called, it would return the translated data in an column
array. If the data was not yet translated, it would return NULL.

Not a bad solution but it had some problems. One was that no one used
it. Granted, it lacked documentation however it was still difficult to
implement. Every time you wanted to display data, you would have to
check to see if the translation existed. If it didn't, you would grab
the original. We now have doubled the fetching process for every
query. The developer would also have to make sure that with each
insert and update, that the dynamic table knew about it.

The fact that few developers implemented this means, to me, that it
was hassle. We are trying to design 0.9.4 so that developers have to
learn less about the core. Using the 0.9.3 process was cumbersome.

This process, should it have been popular, would eventually made a
HUGE translation table. Imagine ONE table containing all the
translations for ten modules each having 1000 rows of data. Every time
a translation request was made, 10000 rows would need to be
searched. You can see why dynamic language capabilities were turned
off by default. It was slow.

Could this method be improved upon? Perhaps, but it would again depend
on the developer. They would have to query the language system each
time a change was made or each time content was read. 0.9.4 is written
so most of the time, you can save and load content via
objects. Dynamic language capability would remove that simplicity.

We do not repeat 0.9.3. table-per-language process in 0.9.4. The new
version uses po files for translation. You may ask, why not use them for
dynamic translation as well?

With static content, I know the data in the po file duplicates the data
in my code. With dynamic content, this file would have to be continually
updated. Every edit would create a new entry in the po file. If an entry
was deleted or updated, a search and replace on the text file would have
to be performed for that exact phrase. I can't imagine how this would
work much less writing the code for it.

Having a mirror site, in my opinion, solves all these problems. Sure I
have to enter the content more than once, but I would have to if I
were running extra languages off one site as well. I would enter it
once to create the original and then have to go to a separate
interface and translate it. I don't have to worry about my modules
complying with the dynamic standard. I don't have to worry about speed
because I am pulling data from only one database and not double
checking every entry. All comments are made in the native tongue of
the person viewing the site.

I have discussed this with other developers before. Many say it should
be done without offering the 'how'. Again, I'm not saying it will never
happen, I just can't think of a good way to do it. If you can come up
with a process that:

1) is simple for the developer to implement (or better yet, invisible),
2) does not create overhead with multiple processes,
3) can update content concurrently with the original, and
4) ultimately is easier than multiple sites

I am open to considering it. I don't think maintaining separate language
sites is easy, I just think that it is a simpler solution than the
alternatives.

-- 
Matthew McNaney
Internet Systems Architect
Electronic Student Services
Appalachian State University
Phone: 828-262-6493
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu
http://ess.appstate.edu

[Phpwebsite-developers] Re: phpws Internationalisation

[Fabio E. <nfe...@so...>]

> 1) Language will not be handled by a module. It will be handled by PO
> files: http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/gettext.html
> PO files are widely used and there are several editors for them.
>
> 2) A i18n push. Before 0.9.4 comes out officially, we will ask
> translators to try and use the po file format. Once the volunteers sign
> off on it, we will work on creating a depository of translation files.
>

Hi all, thanks Ulf you have been a great help to me lately.

With respect to 0.9.4 how will it then handel the dynamic content?  This
is a very import issue for me and my leave me behind at 0.9.3-3 for ever.

Just as background to what I'm up to.  I'm trying to get phpws used at my
work (Government of Canada) for several projects.  We've offer by law all
services to public servents and the public in both official languages. No
mixing of languages.

Thanks to the University and all of you for phpwebsite.

Fabio

[Phpwebsite-developers] textSettings.php for multiple branches?

[Tony M. <cl...@us...>]

I have an interesting dilemma.  I have multiple sites as branch sites off 
of my hub code.  They are sharing the same textSettings.php it seems.  So 
there doesn't appear to be a way to customize the "censoring" and allowed 
tags for each branch.

I have one site: http://www.manlymen.org which has a little more "lenient" 
language restriction than http://www.bsacjc.org :))  I'd like to be able 
to customize these a little better.

Thanks for any input you can offer.

-Tony  

-- 
Hometown Enterprises Internet Services
Professional, affordable web design and hosting.
http://www.hteis.com/

[Phpwebsite-developers] Re: phpws Internationalisation

[Matthew M. <ma...@tu...>]

> To those of you who might have expecting me much earlier: Please
> excuse - I hope the birth of a daughter is reason enough to postpone a
> couple of hacking activities. ;)

We'll let it slide.

> My basic motivation is that I am running a bunch of web sites based on
> phpws and that I would like to get my custom code supported.

That's what you all want!

>  Well - you might say: That's what we all want.

oh... nevermind.

> Multi-Language-Capability.
> 
> Hold on. Doesn't phpws provide that with the language module? Yes, it
> does. But, despite the great documentation of this module, I think it
> is far too complicated for the regular user to integrate some
> important core modules (such as pagemaster).

You are being far too kind. The language support stinks.

> So what can be done?

Here is what _will_ be done in 0.9.4.

1) Language will not be handled by a module. It will be handled by PO
files: http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/gettext.html
PO files are widely used and there are several editors for them.

2) A i18n push. Before 0.9.4 comes out officially, we will ask
translators to try and use the po file format. Once the volunteers sign
off on it, we will work on creating a depository of translation files.

3) We will try and make sure that anglo-oriented functions like date()
are replaced with i18n friendly functions (like strftime() ).

> Secondly, I think that there should be a recommendation that phpws
> mods should be tested regarding their lang mod integratability,
> ideally related code would be already shipped with the mods and could
> be activated by a flag. I am offering to help coordinating this effort
> and to provide sort of I18N feedback to mod developers. If I knew who
> they are ....

I think that is sound. Once 0.9.4 comes out, I suggest a module page
that includes information on what version it is running, when the last
update was, and what languages it supports. 

> ... - which brings me to the third activity I'd like to initiate: A
> more structured family of web sites where information like this can
> easily be found by the regular user. I think I am an experienced web
> user, but I often found myself lost in the large world of
> phpws-support-sites.

I would like to see that as well. However, and this is not to slight you
Ulf, but there have been MANY people who have offered their help only to
quietly fade away. Some stick around (Mike, Kenneth, Don, Shaun, and
others I am leaving out) but most get busy with other things.

So, while I would welcome this level of support, it really is dependent
on the community. We help when we can, but we have to concentrate on
programming and, more importantly, our duty to the university (who pay
us). 

Welcome to the community, and we hope to hear more from you in the
future. I would also ask that you stay tuned for the 0.9.4 release so we
can make a smooth translation transition.

Best regards,
Matt

-- 
Matthew McNaney
Internet Systems Architect
Electronic Student Services
Appalachian State University
Phone: 828-262-6493
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu
http://ess.appstate.edu

[Phpwebsite-developers] Re: phpws Internationalisation

[Mike N. <mh...@us...>]

On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 10:05, Ulf Hallmann wrote:
> My basic motivation is that I am running a bunch of web sites based on
> phpws and that I would like to get my custom code supported. Well -
> you might say: That's what we all want.

Ulf,
This is why the phpwebsite-comm project was started. It provides a place
for community members to work on their ideas. It also provides a place
for the ASU team to review content for inclusion in phpwebsite releases.


> Multi-Language-Capability.

Most of the current functionality in phpwebsite is l10n. The underlying
support for i18n isn't implemented yet. i18n requires underlying
structure support from database, web server, php code, xhtml, and css to
function properly.

> 
> First, I think that things like 
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=958502&group_id=15539&atid=315539
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=942393&group_id=15539&atid=315539
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=942365&group_id=15539&atid=315539
> should make it into the supported code of related core mods. Secondly,
> I think that there should be a recommendation that phpws mods should
> be tested regarding their lang mod integratability, ideally related
> code would be already shipped with the mods and could be activated by
> a flag. I am offering to help coordinating this effort and to provide
> sort of I18N feedback to mod developers. If I knew who they are ....
> 
> ... - which brings me to the third activity I'd like to initiate: A
> more structured family of web sites where information like this can
> easily be found by the regular user. I think I am an experienced web
> user, but I often found myself lost in the large world of
> phpws-support-sites.

I'm going to setup a wiki (mediawiki) for phpwebsite-comm. I hope
everyone can contribute to the knowledge base.
> 
> I have been talking to Kenneth Poulsen about this (so far with no
> success - maybe my baby break is the reason). A key benefit is that
> this effort can leverage the multi-language activities that I
> described above: By providing one multi-lingual core site that uses
> great phpws features like branches etc. (1) to integrate other
> supported sites and (2) to show everybody out there the great things
> that can be done with a system that deserves to be the number one php
> framework in the world.

With your assistance we can work on this goal at phpwebsite-comm.

-- 
Mike Noyes <mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net>
http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/
SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs

[Phpwebsite-developers] phpws Internationalisation

[Ulf H. <U1...@ul...>]

Good morning,

I finally made it on this list. To those of you who might have expecting 
me much earlier: Please excuse - I hope the birth of a daughter is 
reason enough to postpone a couple of hacking activities. ;) To those of 
you who have no idea of what I am talking about, please let me explain.

My basic motivation is that I am running a bunch of web sites based on 
phpws and that I would like to get my custom code supported. Well - you 
might say: That's what we all want. I do think though, that I am talking 
about a feature that is relatively easy to support while being the 
number one reason of large / professional web site not being efficiently 
upgradeable after once being successfully deployed. Guess what I am 
talking about...?

*Multi-Language-Capability.*

Hold on. Doesn't phpws provide that with the language module? Yes, it 
does. But, despite the great documentation of this module, I think it is 
far too complicated for the regular user to integrate some important 
core modules (such as pagemaster). This is because it is not only about 
registering related modules with the lang mod. There are lots of traps 
where the regular user will tap into if he doesn't watch out. If he 
watches out, though, he will end up with a bunch of custom code that 
will be a pain in the neck to re-apply once new phpws versions get released.

*So what can be done?*

First, I think that things like

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=958502&group_id=15539&atid=315539
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=942393&group_id=15539&atid=315539
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=942365&group_id=15539&atid=315539

should make it into the supported code of related core mods. Secondly, I 
think that there should be a recommendation that phpws mods should be 
tested regarding their lang mod integratability, ideally related code 
would be already shipped with the mods and could be activated by a flag. 
I am offering to help coordinating this effort and to provide sort of 
I18N feedback to mod developers. If I knew who they are ....

... - which brings me to the third activity I'd like to initiate: A more 
structured family of web sites where information like this can easily be 
found by the regular user. I think I am an experienced web user, but I 
often found myself lost in the large world of phpws-support-sites.

I have been talking to Kenneth Poulsen about this (so far with no 
success - maybe my baby break is the reason). A key benefit is that this 
effort can leverage the multi-language activities that I described 
above: By providing one multi-lingual core site that uses great phpws 
features like branches etc. (1) to integrate other supported sites and 
(2) to show everybody out there the great things that can be done with a 
system that deserves to be the number one php framework in the world.

I promise that this was my first and last long email ito this list. If 
you think that what I am saying makes sense and if you have an idea 
about how to proceed - please contact me.

Cheers, and greetings from Munich

Ulf


http://www.ulftopia.com/vita_e.html

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Template question about hiding a label

[Don S. <do...@se...>]

Yes in my experience I've had to only conditionally define the label as
well.

Don.

On Tue, Jun 29, 2004 at 02:13:18PM -0500, Greg Meiste wrote:
> Hello all.
>=20
> I have a quick question about templating.  I have a item class with a few
> vars that are not required.  In that item class, I have a view function.=
=20
> That view function sets up the tags then calls the process template
> function.
>=20
> Right now with those optional vars is that the label is showing but then
> there is no data to show with it.  I set up my view.tpl to be like this:
>=20
> <!-- BEGIN DATUM2 -->
> {DATUM2_LABEL}:<br />
> {DATUM2}<br /><br />
> <!-- END DATUM2 -->
>=20
> with Datum2 being an optional field.  Even set up like that, the label
> still shows.  I was hoping that with it set up like that, the code chunk
> wouldn't show even though the DATUM2_LABEL is present.  Am I going to have
> to check every label before adding it to the tags?  [i.e.
> if(isset(datum2))....]
>=20
> I'm hoping there is a more "graceful" way that having an if statement for
> all the variables (there is a lot of them).
>=20
> I hope all that made sense.  Any thoughts anyone?
>=20
> Thanks in advance.
>=20
> Greg
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training.
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> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers

--=20
"So, on behalf of a well-oiled unit of people who came together to serve
something greater than themselves, congratulations."

George W. Bush
May 31, 2001
White House ceremony honoring the University of Nebraska women's volleyball
team, the 2001 NCAA Champions.

[Phpwebsite-developers] Template question about hiding a label

[Greg M. <me...@ms...>]

Hello all.

I have a quick question about templating.  I have a item class with a few
vars that are not required.  In that item class, I have a view function.=20
That view function sets up the tags then calls the process template
function.

Right now with those optional vars is that the label is showing but then
there is no data to show with it.  I set up my view.tpl to be like this:

<!-- BEGIN DATUM2 -->
{DATUM2_LABEL}:<br />
{DATUM2}<br /><br />
<!-- END DATUM2 -->

with Datum2 being an optional field.  Even set up like that, the label
still shows.  I was hoping that with it set up like that, the code chunk
wouldn't show even though the DATUM2_LABEL is present.  Am I going to hav=
e
to check every label before adding it to the tags?  [i.e.
if(isset(datum2))....]

I'm hoping there is a more "graceful" way that having an if statement for
all the variables (there is a lot of them).

I hope all that made sense.  Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks in advance.

Greg

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] News in a section - help

[Steven L. <st...@tu...>]

On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 18:02, Luis S=C3=A1nchez Tapia wrote:
> Hi,
> I have some questions:
> 1.- Does phpwebsite support sections for news???

Yes it does but phpWebSite calls them categories.  If you add categories
under the Fatcat administrator, these categories should then show up
when you are creating a new or editing an announcement.

> 2.- How can I display all news for one section??  (like phpnuke)

Go to the Menu Manager module and edit the menu you want to add the link
to.  Click the "Add Module Default" button.  Then select the dropdown
option which will add "Announcements" to your menu.  Finally name it and
choose where you want it to show.   This will give you a categorized
display of all the announcement.  Copy the individual links to show the
announcements for one category at a time.

--=20
Steven Levin
Computer Systems Admin I
Electronic Student Services
Appalachian State University
Phone: 828.262.6740
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Item and Manager Class

[Steven L. <st...@tu...>]

On Wed, 2004-06-23 at 02:38, Greg Morgan wrote:
> I've read the documentation on the item and manager class 
> http://res1.stddev.appstate.edu/horde/chora/co.php/phpwebsite/docs/developers/ITEM_MANAGER_README.txt?r=1.12. 
> 
> I also read the email messages title "Simple Module". I don't think I 
> have found an answer to my question.  If I have a code table and a table 
> that uses that code in a row, can I use these classes?  The idea would 
> be then I implement an Item class for the two tables and a Manager class 
> to manage them both.  Can I take these relationships as far as having 
> six to ten tables in my install.sql file?  Each would have an Item class 
> implemented with one manager class to manage all the items.  The gist of 
> these tables is a small relational database system.  Has someone created 
> a module like this where there might be some sample code to look at?

Greg,

  I would recommend using the Item class but not the Manager.   Instead
of Manager check out the List class in the core.   This class is much
easier to use and more flexible.   Write your own manager class which
will control all your lists and items.  You could even have one manager
that controls a bunch of sub-managers,  the are many possibile solutions
all depending on how you would like your code to be structured.  The
documents module implements both Item and List without extending the
core Manager class.  Altough it only implements 2 items you may be able
to get some ideas from it.  Hope this helps.  Feel free to email the
list with further questions.

-- 
Steven Levin
Computer Systems Admin I
Electronic Student Services
Appalachian State University
Phone: 828.262.6740
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu

[Phpwebsite-developers] Item and Manager Class

[Greg M. <drk...@co...>]

I've read the documentation on the item and manager class 
http://res1.stddev.appstate.edu/horde/chora/co.php/phpwebsite/docs/developers/ITEM_MANAGER_README.txt?r=1.12. 

I also read the email messages title "Simple Module". I don't think I 
have found an answer to my question.  If I have a code table and a table 
that uses that code in a row, can I use these classes?  The idea would 
be then I implement an Item class for the two tables and a Manager class 
to manage them both.  Can I take these relationships as far as having 
six to ten tables in my install.sql file?  Each would have an Item class 
implemented with one manager class to manage all the items.  The gist of 
these tables is a small relational database system.  Has someone created 
a module like this where there might be some sample code to look at?

I found while reading the ITEM_MANAGER_README.txt file that it took a 
left turn at the manager class description.

I could develop a module for each table but I am hoping that is not the 
right answer.

Thanks,
Greg

Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Multiple themes for one site

[Greg M. <me...@ms...>]

I'd like to see your (or anybody else's) code example that switches the
theme based on the active module.  If you don't have a spot I can downloa=
d
it, could you please send it to me as an email attachment?

Thanks!

Greg

>
> i hacked together an example where you would use a different theme base=
d
> on a module... but i am not sure if thats enough for you. basically jus=
t
> before displaying the tpl file you have a switch based on the current
> module to determine the right tpl file.
>
> spiggy
> --
> Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire=
,
> and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Phpwebsite-developers mailing list
> Php...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers
>

[Phpwebsite-developers] News in a section - help

[Luis T. <lsa...@co...>]

Hi,

I have some questions:

1.- Does phpwebsite support sections for news???
2.- How can I display all news for one section??  (like phpnuke)

=========================================
Saludos,
Luis Sanchez Tapia.
M@il: lsa...@co...
      lui...@ya...
Cell: 97626928

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Greg Meiste <cap...@ya...>
To: php...@li...
Sent: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 15:02:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Phpwebsite-developers] Multiple themes for one site

> Hello everyone,
>  
> I've got a client who wants to have a different look to a few 
> sections of a website I'm helping create for them.  I had wanted to 
> use phpwebsite for this site, but now I'm not sure if I can.  I had 
> thought about using branches to achieve the multiple themes, but I 
> don't think that's going to work because branches can't share data.
>  
> I remembered Wendall's W3C theme, but that appears to just change 
> the stylesheet and not the layout.  (Yes, unfortunately, they want a 
> layout change as well.)
>  
> Has anyone played around with this idea?  I don't know if I could do 
> fancy things in the theme.php file to help achieve this for them.  I 
> was just throwing this question out there to see if others have 
> tried this or know of how this is possible.
>  
> I pretty sure you're going to tell me that I'm up a creek without a 
> paddle, but I figured it's worth a shot.
>  
> Thanks in advance!
> Greg
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Friends.  Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
------- End of Original Message -------

[Phpwebsite-developers] Language modules

[Luis T. <lsa...@co...>]

Hi,

Where I can find modules for the spanish language ???????????????

=========================================
Saludos,
Luis Sanchez Tapia.
M@il: lsa...@co...
      lui...@ya...
Cell: 97626928