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RE: [Phpwebsite-developers] Pagemaster & Categorizer
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From: Roland, R. M <rmr...@in...> - 2003-06-16 17:05:35
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As I said, I've spent a bit of time thinking about the Pagemaster module = so I apologize for the lengthy narrative. In describing my thoughts on = this, the Fatcat module came up. Before I wrote on that module, I = wanted a better understanding of its internal functionality. = Suprisingly, when I looked into it, I saw that 1) there exists an = heirarchy system (parent/child) for categories and 2) that the deletion = of both elements and categories are already taken care of quite nicely. = Though I'm still not quite sure what the 'Sticky' thing is. ----- Notes on FatCat As I said, there appears to already be an heirarchial system build into = Fatcat where a Pagemaster_Image (or better Image>Pagemaster) can be a = child of a generic Image. In fact, it looks like a single element can = not only have multiple children, but possily multiple parents(?) = [getParents()]. This leads me to suggest that maybe fatcat could have = some predefined categories (Images, Links, etc), then a module can = create its own children of those (Image>Pagemaster, Image>Menu, etc). = And for modules whose category has no generic parent, then their = category would be a standalone. In this setup, an important function would be the = 'getAllElements(category)' One question about this. When returning elements belonging to a = category, do you return elements belonging to a parent of that = cagtegory? (Perhaps a parameter switch = [getAllElements(category,returnParentElements)]). This way if I want to = add an image to a Pagemaster page, I get not only Image>Pagemaster = elements, but generic Image elements as well. Another important function is the 'deleteCategory(category)' The way this currently works is actually pretty good. If you delete a = category, any children that belong to it are deleted as well. In = addition, all elements of the categories you delete get deleted. = However, one possible alternative is that if the category being deleted = has a parent, to change all elements off the category being deleted to = be elements of its parent category (ie a Image>Pagemaster element would = become just an Image element if you deleted the Image>Pagemaster = category).=20 Other than that, I don't see alot of change being necessary with the = FatCat module. It's more about HOW it is used by other modules. =20 ----- Notes on Pagemaster (keep in mind that I have no clue what Adam's = Pagemaster rewrites consist of) Pagemaster can be handled in two ways. Currently, pages are treated like = a collection of sections (similar to announcement module). I'm not = entirely sure what the reason for the multiple sections functionality = was (or is), but I'm not sure they don't unnecissarily add to the = complexity of the module. =20 The second way to handle Pages is to treat each as a single entity. And = unless there's a reason for sections that I don't see (which is = probable), I think this way is simpler for the module coder (for = numerous reasons) and easier for novice users to understand (as my = informal usability testing has shown). The rest of my thoughts = concerning this module reflect this manner. When creating a new page, the Page options are good. I'd like to see = implemented a similar feature as in Announcements where you can set = 'Post On' (or 'Activate On') and 'Expire' dates which shouldn't be too = difficult. I also think that the section editing page has too much extraneous info. = This causes more confusion for novice users. A single image for a = section seems limiting. And what is the necessity for a subtitle that = just takes up a field in the database when I can just as easily do = '<h3>Subtitle</h3>' Also, in my usability testing, there = were alot of users confused by the concept of multiple sections for a = page (especially when they seem to look like just another paragraph). Summing up My Considerations (no particular order): 1) When asking for all elements of a FatCat category, allow for the = return of elements that belong to the parent of that category. 2) Consider (just consider) having FatCat elements, when their category = is deleted, to change their category to the parent of their now deleted = category. 3) Add 'Activate On' and 'Expire On' dates to a Pagemaster page. = Because this is already in use in the Announcements module, and could be = useful in other modules (MenuManager, etc), consider perhaps in a later = implementation, a small internal scheduler module that can be used to = activate/deactivate items and even mail reminders or system messages. 4) Expand the size of the input window and allow a page to be a single = entity (ie no sections).=20 5) Remove the subtitle, image, and short image description fields from = what was the section editor. =20 6) When editing a page, clicking on the image button will bring up a = small window (similar to the help windows) with the 'Add Image' = interface. Perhaps a button "Add Internal Image" and "Add External = Image". External image will bring up a page that will allow you to = enter the url and some settings (border, etc). Internal will bring up a = page with maybe thumbs of the existing images in the Image>Pagemaster = and possily the generic Image categories (ahh.. my FatCat ramblings = finally have a point). 7) Similarly, links could be handled the same way. Internal (list of = pagemaster pages, calendar events, FAQs, etc, and of course Link Manager = links) and external (obvious). 8) The uploading of the images could be handled by the document manager. = And there would need to be a mechanism (toggle switch) to differentiate = between files for internal use and files for download by visitors. I'm = not sure that the hidden/visible toggle would work since if it's an = image, it would need to be visible through a URL (ie when viewed through = a pagemaster page), just not downloadable through the document manager. = (Not sure if I'm making myself clear on this or not). Again, sorry this is so long, but as I've said, the Pagemaster module = has alot of importance in the public face of our website and I've put = alot of thought and time into it. I've avoided putting much of this = into code before getting info regarding Adam's direction and input from = other developers. So if anyone can find problems with what I've = suggested, or elaboration, or improvement, by all means, please do so.=20 Thanks for your feedback, Ryan Roland Application Developer Information Technology Department Division of Recreational Sports Indiana University rmr...@in... Office: 812.855.9617 Cell: 812.320.0032 -----Original Message----- From: ad...@tu... [mailto:ad...@tu...] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11 02 To: php...@li... Subject: RE: [Phpwebsite-developers] Pagemaster & Categorizer >> During this re-write would be the best time to try and implement >> something >> like this. > > I agree, but my fear is writing something at the same time that your = team > does (what sounds like) a major rewrite on reliant (if not the same) > modules. I've worked on too many projects where a lack of cooperation = led > to two versions of a function or class which led to having to rehash = it > together anyway and I want to avoid that. > Agreed I will try to be more clear. >> FatCat would need a module to specify which categories it should = create, >> easy part. > > Not sure what you mean by 'module'... It would need some kind of > interface (function) that other modules could ask for categories to be > created (which it should already have). Maybe you used the wrong word = or > maybe I'm misunderstanding. > When I say module I mean it as a noun. A module would need to specify which categories it would create and yes fatcat would need to provide an interface for accomplishing this if it does not already exist. >> You would then need a method for selecting items from the >> category without creating confusion to the user, a little harder. > > When you say the user, are talking about module developers or system > users? I agree that when users are placing items in a category, there > needs to be a help link that explains well the use of categories. > Example: selecting an image when creating a section in pagemaster. Do you send the user to a different screen with all the images in the pagemaster->images category shown and the user can select it there. Do you show a dropdown with all the names of images contained in the pagemaster->images category. Or is there some easier method for = selecting those types of items. The interface decided on would need to work for = all modules for consistancy purposes. >> Then, once the item has been selected, you must make the page, event, >> or link aware of the categorized item it uses, again not too bad just >> tricky. > > This, I agree will be tricky, but my larger concern is whether to = allow an > item to be in more than one category. Can an image be a = Pagemaster_Image > and a Menu_Image or should you just categorize it as just an Image, = etc. > This is also a good question. Should we just create some default categories that modules could call upon like Images, Links, etc? >> Then, you would need to take into account a categorized item that = gets >> deleted. >> This could be the worse of it. You would have to traverse the >> items using the deleted categorized item and either remove it or set = it >> to >> hidden or something. > > I agree, but that doesn't worry me as much as what happens if a = category > itself gets deleted. > Aye the inverse is probably more tricky then deleting an item. > > I will soon be posting a rough idea of what I'm thinking with regards = to > this modification, but I'd like some idea of what your team seems to > already have planned for this and other mods to make sure that = anything I > write isn't in conflict with yours. > I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this. > > Thanks, > > > Ryan Roland > > Application Developer > Information Technology Department > Division of Recreational Sports > Indiana University > > rmroland@in... > Office: 812.855.9617 > Cell: 812.320.0032 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: adam@tu... > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 08 48 > To: php...@li... > Subject: Re: [Phpwebsite-developers] Pagemaster & Categorizer > > > Ryan, > > I see your logic here. We are going to be doing re-writes of several > modules for the 0.9.3 release so they use the Item/Manager classes. > During this re-write would be the best time to try and implement = something > like this. It would require working out several issues before any > implementation could happen. Here's a few I can think of off the top = of > my head: > > FatCat would need a module to specify which categories it should = create, > easy part. You would then need a method for selecting items from the > category without creating confusion to the user, a little harder. = Then, > once the item has been selected, you must make the page, event, or = link > aware of the categorized item it uses, again not too bad just tricky. > Then, you would need to take into account a categorized item that gets > deleted. This could be the worse of it. You would have to traverse = the > items using the deleted categorized item and either remove it or set = it to > hidden or something. > >> Since my group has a great deal of interest in the Pagemaster module = due >> to its importance in our use of the system, I have put considerable >> thought into it. >> >> One of the thoughts that I had was in regard to the Categorizer. >> Firstly, >> I am considering expanding Pagemaster's ability to add images to a = page. >> Obviously if people are allowed to upload their own images each time >> they >> want to add one to a page, it could lead to severe file duplication = on >> the >> server. My thought is to use the document manager to upload the = images >> and handle them. Here's where my thought regarding the Categorizer >> comes >> into play. >> >> Say that the categorizer comes with some specific categories (i.e. >> Pagemaster->Images, Pagemaster->Links, etc), to which administrators, >> wishing to create a portfolio of images for use in the Pagemaster >> module, >> could add their images. Then in the pagemaster module, when a page >> creator is trying to add an image to their page, they get a portfolio = of >> images made up of all the images in Pagemaster->Images. >> >> This would work for other modules as well: Menuman->Links, >> Calendar->Images, etc. >> >> It seems to me, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that so far the >> categorizer module has been used to group items together within a = module >> for relevance. All sports related pages/announcements are distinct = from >> all science related pages/announcements/etc. The reason I think this >> would be most beneficial is that it would take that distinction and >> allow >> it to be of use in the functionality of other modules (which is >> something >> that I don't see it being used for yet). Plus I don't see it as = being >> too >> much of a change in code as much as a change in the way other modules >> use >> the categorizer. >> >> >> These are just my meandorings, but I was curious what the developer >> comm. >> thought about it. Let me know if I jumped around too much and need = to >> explain anything better... I tend to ramble :) >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Ryan Roland >> >> Application Developer >> Information Technology Department >> Division of Recreational Sports >> Indiana University >> >> rmroland@in... >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Etnus, makers of TotalView, The = best >> thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread debugging = features >> you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com. >> _______________________________________________ >> Phpwebsite-developers mailing list >> Php...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers >> > > > -- > Adam Morton > Developer - Electronic Student Services > http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu > Founder - Appalachian Linux Users Group > http://alug.appstate.edu > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Etnus, makers of TotalView, The = best > thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread debugging features > you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com. > _______________________________________________ > Phpwebsite-developers mailing list > Php...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: eBay > Great deals on office technology -- on eBay now! Click here: > http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5 > _______________________________________________ > Phpwebsite-developers mailing list > Php...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwebsite-developers > --=20 Adam Morton Developer - Electronic Student Services http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu Founder - Appalachian Linux Users Group http://alug.appstate.edu ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: eBay Great deals on office technology -- on eBay now! 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