Re: [PHPOpenChat-Users] "database independant" is a crock

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

Michael Oertel wrote:
<snip>
> *hmm* not really. I know, MySQL is far away from ANSI SQL 92 standards, 
> and unfortunetally MySQL doesn't support some JOIN syntax. Any way, a 
> better SQL should be using a NATURAL JOIN.

It was just one _very easy to find_ example of why PHP Open Chat is 
*not* database independent, not even close.

Embedding database specific code into ADOdb does not magically mean that 
code has become database independent.

Another *brilliant* example of just what kind of "database independent" 
support that PHP Open Chat has, is in the choice of column names themselves.

Does anyone on the PHP Open Chat team even know that "USER" is a 
reserved word in the various SQL standards and *has been that way* since 
at least 1992?  For *more than a decade*!  And yet, here it is, used in 
PHP Open Chat for column names!

Why the hell are you guys claiming database independence when the 
_fundamental foundations_ of your database structure are wrong?

Perhaps that needs to be re-worded for your developers.  How's this... 
*don't use SQL standard reserved words for your object names nor their 
attributes*.  They'd have to be *brain damaged* to do so.

It doesn't matter if MySQL allows people to break that or not, a 
"database independent" project can't.  Until this stuff is fixed, you're 
_not_ database independent.


<snip>
> Just for you to know, all the time programming OSS is un-billable.

That's your choice.  Don't assume _any_ of the people using your product 
work on the same model.

Possibly like you, I've spent countless tens of thousands of hours 
working on OSS products making them better.

Coming across an OSS project that _says_ it does XYZ thing in many 
places, then clearly does not, is just bullshit coming from the people 
running that project and will just generate bad will for you.


> So don't be soooo sad, Justin, keep in mind nobody makes mistakes 
> willfully and you are not alone.

Sad?  I'm angry, not sad.  Imagine some project claiming to support 
"Java, Python, PHP" but only supporting Javascript as they say it? 
Don't you reckon they'd be wasting the time of the people who go and try 
to make it work with Java, Python or PHP?

If you want to avoid pissing off further people who may otherwise have 
assisted your project, you might also like to fix this statement in the 
PHP Open Chat manual where it says:

"In the database access layer there is no requirement for a particular 
database. Instead you may use any database system supported by ADOdb."
http://phpopenchat.org/manual_en.html

Which is, yet again, complete crap.  I hope you don't wonder why I'm 
calling your project dishonest.


>> You expect I want to help you guys now?  After blatently lying about 
>> capabilities?
> 
> Geez!
> By the way 'blatantly', you see...

Yes.  'Blatantly'.  As in "on purpose".  No project could repeatedly 
claim something like this and be so wrong "by accident".

Whoever made the decision to propagate this falsehood should be removed 
from the projects decision making process, as they they lack integrity.

You might also like to get someone to fix the various remote security 
vulnerabilities in PHP Open Chat that were announced today.  I've CC'd 
their reporter on this email, so he knows he's not being ignored by you 
guys (just in case).

http://www.albanianhaxorz.org/advisory/phpopenchaten.txt

Mafia_Boy, I hope you also posted the details of these to Bugtraq so 
they're widely circulated.

These vulnerabilities work in well with my thoughts to sum up just how 
much faith should be put in PHP Open Chat as it stands.  Very little. 
Danger.  Do not use.

Justin Clift
PostgreSQL Global Development Group