I'm new in this forumposting in this group and I'd want to know if there's someone translating PhpGedView to spanish actually. I've been working on translating it to spanish locally as the latest spanish translation for the application was not updated and there were two many terms not translated. So, I would like want to contribute with my translation to have this genealogical application updated to Spanish.
I'd like to know which is the way to contribute to the application.
Thanks.
Regards.
Carlos Niharra López
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I don't know of anyone who is actively translating the program in Spanish. If you would like to share your translation with the project and other users, then you can post it to the Patches section of the sourceforge site. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=55456&atid=477081
--John
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I asked the question whether there was any good reason to keep Latin American Spanish and "Spain" Spanish separate. I understand that there are quite a few differences in common expressions and vocabulary. However, wouldn't someone from Latin America understand "Spain" Spanish in its written form? My question was never answered.
I would very much like to see just one version of Spanish that can be kept up to date.
Also, translating is a LOT of work. I would strongly advise you to concentrate on PhpgedView version 4.1. There aren't many differences in the English language files between the Beta2 that you can download and the Beta3 version that's in the SVN repository.
If you need any explanations of the meaning of the English text, you can post your questions here or e-mail me.
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Gerry:
there are several differences in Spain and Latin America Spanish. Some words are offensive for the others, and some mean different things. Although Spain's spanish is supposed to be "pure" it is somewhat antiquated and convoluted.
In Latin America we use also "englisized" words, like computer = computador, in spain is ordenador (orderer?) that make no sense to americans.
Anyway, I'm also willing to help, if you need me.
Regards
Javier Rivera
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I have nearly complete Spanish versions for both 4.0 (you can see it live at http://www.enredo.es\), including the user-visible parts of Googlemap and 4.1 final, including, AFAIK, translation for all the standard modules. It needs reviewing, spell checks, consistency checks, style checks, etc. The version for 4.1 is completely untested, I finished the translation last night and I plan to start experimenting with it in a few days.
It is essentially a peninsular Spanish version, but I did not go too far with that. For instance, 'computadora' or 'ordenador' are almost absent in the translation, using 'equipo' instead. Same for 'mouse'/'ratón' that are absent as well. But I know it won't make everyone happy (I am not happy myself), I did it just so that I could run *my* site and other considerations were secondary.
All that said, I guess someone could save a lot of work starting from that.
Regards,
Julio
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It seems the link is not clickable because the forum software is not smart enough. Here it is all by itself, I hope this things gets it right this time:
Julio:
This looks very good. When you think you're ready to submit your Spanish language files, I'll be happy to upload them to CVS for inclusion in the next release of PhpGedView 4.1
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Julio, I am a pretty good at Mexican Spanish, but not a native speaker.
I have added to and modified the files that came down with version 4.1 stable, but I see many strings that are still in English.
Perhaps we could collaborate on this part of the project.
The current files as they are in use on my site right now are in http://UniGen.us/PGV/experiments/Spanish.tgz
----------------
To anyone: Yes, there are distinct differences between peninsular Spanish and American Spanish. In fact, there are differences from one country or region to another. (Do you drink "pop" or "soda"?) But there is much that is common. What about this idea:
filename.es.php -- contains the common parts, AND a default for the varying parts
filename.es-mx.php, filename.es-ar.php, filename.es-es.php, etc. - starts with an include of the common, and then contains overrides for the variable parts.
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Wes:
On the surface, the idea of having local overrides to accommodate regional language differences seems to be good. However, this is contrary to the design of the PGV language modules and the way PGV determines which language files need to be loaded.
It will also multiply the number of files that translators will need to keep track of.
I think it would be better to _reduce_ the number of different languages we have to support by avoiding colloquialisms as much as possible. That shouldn't be too hard in the contexts of Genealogy and Information Technology.
Back to the original question: is there REALLY a need to distinguish between European Spanish and American Spanish in the context of PhpGedView? Wouldn't it be possible to select wording and grammar that can be understood by all, even though it may not be colloquially correct?
In technical writing, which is what we're dealing with, it's always best to avoid regional differences. IBM, for example, NEVER produced manuals that were specific to a particular country. Surely, we can do that too. After all, we're not writing letters to our grandparents -- we're providing "how to" instructions to people who at least know how to turn on a computer. Consider the audience.
We avoid regionalisms already in English, German, French, Dutch, ... each of which have a large number of differences from one country to another.
For example, when I drink one of those fizzy drinks, I drink neither pop nor soda -- I drink a "soft drink". However, I understand perfectly well what is meant by "pop" and "soda" (carbonated, flavoured, and sweetened water) and am quite capable of using whatever term is common usage in the region that I'm in. I may not like using the term "soda", which to me, is carbonated, unflavoured, and unsweetened water, but .... (notice the "ou" instead of "o"???)
etc. etc. etc.
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"is there REALLY a need to distinguish between European Spanish and American Spanish...?"
Probably not. I would agree with avoiding regionalisms. But _IF_ they can't be avoided somewhere, a tiny little specific file that includes a much larger common file seems to me better than two or more large files that are 99% identical. A corollary of Murphy's Law says that "duplicate items soon aren't" :-)
I would be inclined to drop the Argentine file and then resurrect it if someone familiar with the regionalisms determines it's necessary. At that point (if ever) I'd still recommend the inclusion mechanism.
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Wes:
I believe the Argentine Spanish file is more current than the Spanish Spanish one. If I'm not mistaken, it also uses computer terms that are closer to the American ones. The Spanish Spanish files haven't been touched since very early PGV 3.x
It shouldn't be too hard to merge the two. If you like, I can do that, or we could even use your presumably more recent files and ignore the Spanish Spanish ones altogether.
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I found there were many more changes needed to update the translation, especially the help texts. Then I found punbb requires further work that I have not done yet. I don't know if I will.
I am not running 4.1 yet (was held back by the DMsoundex memroy exhaustion), so I am in no rush to finish translation, but you can find a pretty complete version at:
Julio:
Please don't bother with translating any of the Modules stuff. This isn't part of the standard PhpGedView.
I'm not surprised that the Help text isn't complete -- it hardly ever is, for any language other than English. I do some of the German stuff, and can't catch up at all. I keep on top of the current changes to the English text, but the "old" stuff: forget it. I'll do what I can, when I can, in bits and pieces. There just isn't enough time to do everything.
I've downloaded your files, and will submit them to the project after I've had a quick look.
It doesn't matter that these files are for PGV prior to 4.1 -- they're bound to be better than what we have now.
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Well, a little late for not translating the modules. Anyway, as I already explained, I did this to cover my own needs. I use GoogleMap, plan to use Sitemap and maybe Research Assistant.
In case there is some confusion left, this is a fairly complete translation for 4.1, not 4.x or prior versions. Less than 0.2% strings may be untranslated now. And that includes both user and admin parts, both interface and help texts, and the modules, except the web part of punbb. Moreover, many outdated translations have been updated.
All the best,
Julio
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Julio:
Wow! That's a LOT of work. (I have some minor changes to "countries.es.php")
Should we get rid of Argentinian Spanish in PGV 4.2? We can't do that for PGV 4.1.2, but there's no reason we can't use the same set of files for both versions of the language.
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I am not sure about what should be done. Simply translating PGV is a lot of work. Translating it right is way harder and it is testing my limits. Translating so that it sounds right in more than one Spanish locale requires skills I know I don't have.
I have experimented a little to parameterize a few of the most contentious cases where experience shows no compromise is possible, with a view to allowing some further localization in the extras file. After all, the Spanish language locale requires local adaptation for things like date format, time format, etc. anyway.
This is particularly useful for the help files that, fortunately are easier to parameterize thanks to the recursive expansion done by print_text()
I think that in the 3.2 timeframe, dropping all but one variant may be appropriate, giving time to workout an arrangement that suits everyone. But I don't know if I will be able to assist in a translation of no direct benefit to me. Sorry if I sound harsh or egotistical, but a reality check is needed: I spend way too much time on genealogy topics, I spread too thin and I cannot keep long-term commitments. I have let down others before and I am afraid it will happen again.
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Julio:
You have put it very well. I, too, spend far too much time on PhpGedView, with no personal benefit. My wife is getting extremely annoyed.
I think we'll leave European Spanish the way you are doing it right now, and if others feel strongly that their version of Spanish is the only correct one, they can take your files as a starting point to produce their own. Then, if they're proud of their handiwork, they can submit it for others to admire.
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Wow, thanks, Julio, for all that work. I didn't see your link before, but now I've downloaded and compared. And installed your translation in my site.
I withdraw all my previous offers! Julio has provided translations of several thousand variables--I had only 947.
I did however, spot one error: in the login screen where the English is "Welcome to .... Access .... email when your application has been approved." the lang-es-php said "W.r.t. language variants, it is possible to" I just set mine back to English for now, but if no one else does it first, I'll provide a translation bythe weekend.
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I have already copied Julio's files to PGV 4.1.2 and PGV 4.2.
Julio:
Please let me know when you have made more changes to your files (or email me copies), so that I can keep the files in the repository up-to-date.
Outstanding work!
Since I wish to keep your name in the files, with proper accents where needed, please give me your correct name.
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Hi,
I'm new in this forumposting in this group and I'd want to know if there's someone translating PhpGedView to spanish actually. I've been working on translating it to spanish locally as the latest spanish translation for the application was not updated and there were two many terms not translated. So, I would like want to contribute with my translation to have this genealogical application updated to Spanish.
I'd like to know which is the way to contribute to the application.
Thanks.
Regards.
Carlos Niharra López
Hi Carlos,
I don't know of anyone who is actively translating the program in Spanish. If you would like to share your translation with the project and other users, then you can post it to the Patches section of the sourceforge site. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=55456&atid=477081
--John
Carlos:
There is an old post in the Patches section about Latin America Spanish:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1586340&group_id=55456&atid=477081
I asked the question whether there was any good reason to keep Latin American Spanish and "Spain" Spanish separate. I understand that there are quite a few differences in common expressions and vocabulary. However, wouldn't someone from Latin America understand "Spain" Spanish in its written form? My question was never answered.
I would very much like to see just one version of Spanish that can be kept up to date.
Also, translating is a LOT of work. I would strongly advise you to concentrate on PhpgedView version 4.1. There aren't many differences in the English language files between the Beta2 that you can download and the Beta3 version that's in the SVN repository.
If you need any explanations of the meaning of the English text, you can post your questions here or e-mail me.
Gerry:
there are several differences in Spain and Latin America Spanish. Some words are offensive for the others, and some mean different things. Although Spain's spanish is supposed to be "pure" it is somewhat antiquated and convoluted.
In Latin America we use also "englisized" words, like computer = computador, in spain is ordenador (orderer?) that make no sense to americans.
Anyway, I'm also willing to help, if you need me.
Regards
Javier Rivera
Hi,
I have nearly complete Spanish versions for both 4.0 (you can see it live at http://www.enredo.es\), including the user-visible parts of Googlemap and 4.1 final, including, AFAIK, translation for all the standard modules. It needs reviewing, spell checks, consistency checks, style checks, etc. The version for 4.1 is completely untested, I finished the translation last night and I plan to start experimenting with it in a few days.
It is essentially a peninsular Spanish version, but I did not go too far with that. For instance, 'computadora' or 'ordenador' are almost absent in the translation, using 'equipo' instead. Same for 'mouse'/'ratón' that are absent as well. But I know it won't make everyone happy (I am not happy myself), I did it just so that I could run *my* site and other considerations were secondary.
All that said, I guess someone could save a lot of work starting from that.
Regards,
Julio
It seems the link is not clickable because the forum software is not smart enough. Here it is all by itself, I hope this things gets it right this time:
http://www.enredo.es
Regards,
Julio
Julio:
This looks very good. When you think you're ready to submit your Spanish language files, I'll be happy to upload them to CVS for inclusion in the next release of PhpGedView 4.1
Julio, I am a pretty good at Mexican Spanish, but not a native speaker.
I have added to and modified the files that came down with version 4.1 stable, but I see many strings that are still in English.
Perhaps we could collaborate on this part of the project.
The current files as they are in use on my site right now are in http://UniGen.us/PGV/experiments/Spanish.tgz
----------------
To anyone: Yes, there are distinct differences between peninsular Spanish and American Spanish. In fact, there are differences from one country or region to another. (Do you drink "pop" or "soda"?) But there is much that is common. What about this idea:
filename.es.php -- contains the common parts, AND a default for the varying parts
filename.es-mx.php, filename.es-ar.php, filename.es-es.php, etc. - starts with an include of the common, and then contains overrides for the variable parts.
Wes:
On the surface, the idea of having local overrides to accommodate regional language differences seems to be good. However, this is contrary to the design of the PGV language modules and the way PGV determines which language files need to be loaded.
It will also multiply the number of files that translators will need to keep track of.
I think it would be better to _reduce_ the number of different languages we have to support by avoiding colloquialisms as much as possible. That shouldn't be too hard in the contexts of Genealogy and Information Technology.
Back to the original question: is there REALLY a need to distinguish between European Spanish and American Spanish in the context of PhpGedView? Wouldn't it be possible to select wording and grammar that can be understood by all, even though it may not be colloquially correct?
In technical writing, which is what we're dealing with, it's always best to avoid regional differences. IBM, for example, NEVER produced manuals that were specific to a particular country. Surely, we can do that too. After all, we're not writing letters to our grandparents -- we're providing "how to" instructions to people who at least know how to turn on a computer. Consider the audience.
We avoid regionalisms already in English, German, French, Dutch, ... each of which have a large number of differences from one country to another.
For example, when I drink one of those fizzy drinks, I drink neither pop nor soda -- I drink a "soft drink". However, I understand perfectly well what is meant by "pop" and "soda" (carbonated, flavoured, and sweetened water) and am quite capable of using whatever term is common usage in the region that I'm in. I may not like using the term "soda", which to me, is carbonated, unflavoured, and unsweetened water, but .... (notice the "ou" instead of "o"???)
etc. etc. etc.
"is there REALLY a need to distinguish between European Spanish and American Spanish...?"
Probably not. I would agree with avoiding regionalisms. But _IF_ they can't be avoided somewhere, a tiny little specific file that includes a much larger common file seems to me better than two or more large files that are 99% identical. A corollary of Murphy's Law says that "duplicate items soon aren't" :-)
I would be inclined to drop the Argentine file and then resurrect it if someone familiar with the regionalisms determines it's necessary. At that point (if ever) I'd still recommend the inclusion mechanism.
Wes:
I believe the Argentine Spanish file is more current than the Spanish Spanish one. If I'm not mistaken, it also uses computer terms that are closer to the American ones. The Spanish Spanish files haven't been touched since very early PGV 3.x
It shouldn't be too hard to merge the two. If you like, I can do that, or we could even use your presumably more recent files and ignore the Spanish Spanish ones altogether.
I'll get the Argentine files and compare.
Hello,
I found there were many more changes needed to update the translation, especially the help texts. Then I found punbb requires further work that I have not done yet. I don't know if I will.
I am not running 4.1 yet (was held back by the DMsoundex memroy exhaustion), so I am in no rush to finish translation, but you can find a pretty complete version at:
http://www.enredo.es/pgv/
Just unzip over your base PGV installation directory.
Best regards,
Julio
Julio:
Please don't bother with translating any of the Modules stuff. This isn't part of the standard PhpGedView.
I'm not surprised that the Help text isn't complete -- it hardly ever is, for any language other than English. I do some of the German stuff, and can't catch up at all. I keep on top of the current changes to the English text, but the "old" stuff: forget it. I'll do what I can, when I can, in bits and pieces. There just isn't enough time to do everything.
I've downloaded your files, and will submit them to the project after I've had a quick look.
It doesn't matter that these files are for PGV prior to 4.1 -- they're bound to be better than what we have now.
Well, a little late for not translating the modules. Anyway, as I already explained, I did this to cover my own needs. I use GoogleMap, plan to use Sitemap and maybe Research Assistant.
In case there is some confusion left, this is a fairly complete translation for 4.1, not 4.x or prior versions. Less than 0.2% strings may be untranslated now. And that includes both user and admin parts, both interface and help texts, and the modules, except the web part of punbb. Moreover, many outdated translations have been updated.
All the best,
Julio
Julio:
Wow! That's a LOT of work. (I have some minor changes to "countries.es.php")
Should we get rid of Argentinian Spanish in PGV 4.2? We can't do that for PGV 4.1.2, but there's no reason we can't use the same set of files for both versions of the language.
I am not sure about what should be done. Simply translating PGV is a lot of work. Translating it right is way harder and it is testing my limits. Translating so that it sounds right in more than one Spanish locale requires skills I know I don't have.
I have experimented a little to parameterize a few of the most contentious cases where experience shows no compromise is possible, with a view to allowing some further localization in the extras file. After all, the Spanish language locale requires local adaptation for things like date format, time format, etc. anyway.
This is particularly useful for the help files that, fortunately are easier to parameterize thanks to the recursive expansion done by print_text()
I think that in the 3.2 timeframe, dropping all but one variant may be appropriate, giving time to workout an arrangement that suits everyone. But I don't know if I will be able to assist in a translation of no direct benefit to me. Sorry if I sound harsh or egotistical, but a reality check is needed: I spend way too much time on genealogy topics, I spread too thin and I cannot keep long-term commitments. I have let down others before and I am afraid it will happen again.
Julio:
You have put it very well. I, too, spend far too much time on PhpGedView, with no personal benefit. My wife is getting extremely annoyed.
I think we'll leave European Spanish the way you are doing it right now, and if others feel strongly that their version of Spanish is the only correct one, they can take your files as a starting point to produce their own. Then, if they're proud of their handiwork, they can submit it for others to admire.
Wow, thanks, Julio, for all that work. I didn't see your link before, but now I've downloaded and compared. And installed your translation in my site.
I withdraw all my previous offers! Julio has provided translations of several thousand variables--I had only 947.
I did however, spot one error: in the login screen where the English is "Welcome to .... Access .... email when your application has been approved." the lang-es-php said "W.r.t. language variants, it is possible to" I just set mine back to English for now, but if no one else does it first, I'll provide a translation bythe weekend.
I have already copied Julio's files to PGV 4.1.2 and PGV 4.2.
Julio:
Please let me know when you have made more changes to your files (or email me copies), so that I can keep the files in the repository up-to-date.
Outstanding work!
Since I wish to keep your name in the files, with proper accents where needed, please give me your correct name.