Structure of Census and new Notes functionali
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The gedcom standard does not provide for media to be linked to Notes or Sources. All media needs to be part of the event hierarchy on the Individual or Family record.
The shared Note is I think the proper place to record the transcript of the census record. This I understand is what is going to happen in the new Census functionality that is being written following the introduction of the shared notes functionality
The shared note is an extract from the source itself
The image of the census record is also from the source itself.
The shared note can have a source
The image will have the same source
The two can not be linked together per the gedcom standard and can only be brought together under a census tag on each INDV record.
I would prefer notwithstanding the gedcom standard (which I think needs to be changed) to be able to link the image to the note (Which you can do now in PGV any way) and to display that image as part of the display of the shared note data for the individual
GEDCOM 5.5.1 _does_ allow a source record or a source citation to point to a media object.
And it _does_ allow a media object to contain a source citation (pointer or inline) and/or a note (pointer to shared or inline)
I could be wrong, but I think PGV supports all of these except for the inline source citation.
Wes You are right
My note is about the ability to have a media item that is pointing to a source. Ie the source contains a link to a media item and a note contains a media item.
PGV does allow this notwithstanding that it is not in the spec but PGV does not display the linked media item when the Note is displayed in an individual
Ah.
Well, spec does allow source records (as well as source citations) to have media. I've never found a compelling reason to put media in a source record, but in a citation it is useful. For an example, see the 1900 census entry in
http://unigen.us/PGV/individual?pid=P1809
When I created that entry, I had the syntax wrong, and the thummbnails were shown outside of the source. Once I got it to comply with the spec syntax, when I expanded the source, the thumbnail showed up. TODAY, the thumbnail did not show up.
I looked at the GEDCOM, and I think PGV has rearranged the order of the subrecords. But I can't be sure until I compare to a backup GEDCOM file--if I even have one for the right date.
Wes
Re media attached to a SOUR record - I agree probably few 'compelling' reasons, but decoratively I add, for example, a logo image where ancestry.com is the source. It only displays on the SOUR page though, nowhere else.
On your linked to P1809 - I can see the 2 OBJE record in the GEDCOM data, but not the image on the page. I would imagine thats because the image is "Private" because it is linked to other people who are still "Private"? Gerry has tidied up this area in the last week or so, which might explain the change you've seen, or it could be because you logged in as admin before?
Warrren
The issue you raise is a comlex one. Ignoring, for a moment, the GEDCOM spec, there are many options for managing the various possible combinations of levels for CENS data -
1 CENS
2 SOUR
2 NOTE
2 OBJE
or
1 CENS
2 SOUR
3 NOTE
3 OBJE
or
1 CENS
2 SOUR
3 NOTE
4 OBJE
and so on and on.
As I understand it, initially, the new CENS entry tool will pick and use one of these only (I can't recall which). But a later option could be a complex configuration system, that would allow each admin to define their own preferences for this and numerous other 'personal preferences". That is how "GedComCensus" the product that has driven many of the ideas behind the new tool handles the issue.
"later option could be a complex configuration system, that would allow each admin to define their own preferences"
I came across some Excel renderings of census forms at http://www.censustools.com
I took the 1910, and added a blank output sheet, and a template sheet. In the template sheet, I put the exact CENS record or SOUR citation that I want, only where data should come from the form, I put either the cell coordinates or the column letter in angle brackets.
Then I wrote VBA code to take the template, make the substitutions, and add the result to the output.
I copy the census page, run the code, and paste the results into GEDCOM. If I want a different format, I change the template.
For a household of ten, it takes about two seconds on a 2 GHz Win XP box with Excel 2003.
Ought to be able to do something similar in Javascript/PHP.
<<Ought to be able to do something similar in Javascript/PHP. >> - very much under-development / in progress. Not yet ready for release, but early trials look extremely promising (I speak for, not as, the developer :-) )
I guess what I was trying to achieve was not having to have the media in the citation but to have the media on the shared note so it did not need to be linked to each individual
So given that we are not going to display a Note hierarchy (Except sources) I guess the new census functionality will have to have one of the structures that Wes mentions above
Personally I favour this structure
0 @I1@ INDI
1 CENS
2 SOUR @S1@
3 NOTE @N1@
4 OBJE @M1@
0 @I2@ INDI
1 CENS
2 SOUR @S1@
3 NOTE @N1@
4 OBJE @M1@
As the OBJE is a copy of the orginal document the note has in theory been sourced from this so the OBJE should be a level 4 item to the note which is almost the same as having the OBJE as a level 1 item against the Shared note.
Hi
I have been trying to keep out of this because I am still busy trying to get a CENSus event to be added to multiple INDI's based upon the INDI's referenced in the new "add assisted shared note" action in my eventually (I hope) to be released GEDFact Assistant.
I hope (eventually) to be able to give you ALL of the above structural possibilities for a CENS event intially by options.
Just for now I am trying to get the basics working, then I will add the options, (and I have not even decided which will be the default yet as I am still empirically working)
The intent is to automatically create an event (CENS initially) freeform text, census transcription shared note which will be formatted into a table automatically when viewed on the Facts and details page, for each of the indi's specified in the add "assisted" shared note process.
Rest assured that I have all of your concerns/wishes in the back of my head, so can we argue/disuss when I have something nearer to what I think you want available for viewing/discussion OK?)
Kiwi and Stephen (and Greg) are helping me test this, so I will let them carry on replying to your questions and wants and wishes while I work on this.
Just to let you know I am here, and watching, but cannot always reply due to brain overload constraints.
(Old age and a small slow brain OK <grin>)
Brian
Warren
Your approach may be fine for you, but many PGV admins BLOCK SOUR records for all but registered users (like myself). We do so as many SOUR records contain very private information, names on living persons, email addresses, phone numbers and more. Therefore, anyone using that approach would have casual visitors never see any census transcriptions. Personally, I think it preferable to have a LEVEL 2 NOTE with level 2 MEDIA and SOURces supporting these levels, but to each their own.
Stephen