Option "Verify gedcom" gives strange errors about relationship (ASSO)
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#2950 Option "Verify gedcom" gives strange errors about relationship (ASSO)
Hello,
I use SVN 7304 under linux with php 7.4.22 and mariadb 10.5.10 as database.
When I use the option "Manage gedcom files" --> select a Gedcom file and "Verify" --> level "Error" I receive some errors for the individuals where I added related individuals as godfather or godmother : Error example: (Sorry but it is in French)
0007596 3 PAGE Page 120 D
0007597 3 OBJE @M135@
0007598[[2 ASSO @I1413@]] mauvaise balise ; voir INDI @I390@
0007599[[3 RELA godfather]] mauvaise balise ; voir INDI @I390@
0007600[[2 ASSO @I1415@]] mauvaise balise ; voir INDI @I390@
0007601[[3 RELA godmother]] mauvaise balise ; voir INDI @I390@
0007602 1 DEAT
0007603 2 DATE AFT 1765
The full gedcom data for this individual are
0 @I390@ INDI
1 NAME Jean Joseph /CAPRASSE/
2 GIVN Jean Joseph
2 SURN CAPRASSE
1 SEX M
1 BIRT
2 DATE 12 JUL 1743
2 PLAC Hollogne-aux-Pierres, Liège, Wallonie, BEL
2 SOUR @S5@
3 PAGE Page 120 D
3 OBJE @M135@
2 ASSO @I1413@
3 RELA godfather
2 ASSO @I1415@
3 RELA godmother
1 DEAT
2 DATE AFT 1765
2 NOTE Il est parrain de son neveu Gérard Joseph Caprasse (Fils d'Antoine Caprasse)
1 FAMC @F101@
2 PEDI birth
1 CHAN
2 DATE 16 AUG 2021
3 TIME 21:44:13
2 _PGVU pce23
See PDF Document for some screen shots (In french) for the individual and the "Parenté" (relationship?) that seems working.
Are these errors valid or not? Did I miss some requirements?
Many thanks in advance
Philippe
Due to my knowledge of this tag, the ASSO should be used at the first level only. It is tag for person or family but not for BIRT or so.
The fragment with ASSOs should be:
1 ASSO @I1413@
2 RELA godfather
1 ASSO @I1415@
2 RELA godmother
Tomasz
Tomasz is right. The GEDCOM standard only allows ASSO tags at the "1" level.
PhpGedView allows these tags to be entered subordinate to the BIRT record (among others). This is an error that will be corrected soon. The associated Help text will be adjusted accordingly.
I've found that there is assotiated tag _ASSO which can be used instead of ASSO in such cases. But as with all non standard tags - it may or may not be used in software.
The other thing that's wrong with Philippe's GEDCOM snippet is that the cited relationships are reversed.
The ASSO tags need to be recorded in the godfather's and the godmother's records thus:
0 @I1413@ INDI
1 ASSO @I390@
2 RELA godfather
and
0 @I1415@ INDI
1 ASSO @I390@
2 RELA godmother
The above would be interpreted as Person I1413 is the godfather of person I390 and as Person I1415 is the godmother of person I390 .
The GEDCOM standard does not provide a means where, by inspecting the record of I390, you can determine who the godfather and godmother are. If this is important to you, use a NOTE record subordinate to I390's BIRT, CHR, or BAPM record. This information really belongs to the Baptism records, when the Godfather and Godmother functions were entered into the Church records.
Don't forget that it's common to have several godfathers and godmothers.
Gerry,
it is not correct. Due to the Gedcom5.5.5 specification (p. 65):
The person's relation or association is the person being pointed to. The association or
relationship is stated by the value on the subordinate RELA line. For example:
0 @I1@ INDI
1 NAME Fred /Jones/
1 ASSO @I2@
2 RELA Godfather
This GEDCOM fragment states that @I2@ is Fred's godfather.
Thanks, I changed the level for some individuals and I see that the error is not more present for those individuals. As far as I see the correct entry should be to add a record ASSO in the window "Personal facts and details " and not more at the birth or wedding level.
Many thanks for your help.
PhpGedView has been updated (SVN 7317) to comply with the GEDCOM 5.5.1 "standard".
The ASSO tag is now permitted only at Level 1, subordinate to an INDI record. According to the GEDCOM standard, the interpretation of this tag is: "The current individual has the stated relationship to the person to whom the ASSO tag points."
Last edit: Gerry Kroll 2021-09-04
Tomasz:
You are correct. The description of RELATION_IS_DESCRIPTOR in the GEDCOM "standard" is extremely poorly worded.
There's a difference in the description between GEDCOM 5.5 and earlier versions. So much for "standards". Furthermore, Tamura Jones, whose well considered opinions I value greatly, hasn't embarked on an explanation.
My description should have stated the following:
"The person to whom the ASSO tag points has the stated relationship to the current individual."
This confusion only affects the associated Help text. The actual program code does not need to change. It's a good thing I haven't done anything about the Help text yet.
It's also a good thing that in my personal database the ASSO tag isn't used at all.
Yes, it is good news that the code is correct. Point me to the appropriate help texts, I'd like to translate it into Polish.
My gedcom contains ASSO in that incorrect way but only 7 times. Not so bad ;)
Tomasz:
The Polish language files are hopelessly out of date.
However, the following entries in the help_text.en.php file are relevant to this discussion. If you think this English text can be improved, please let me know before I post the updates to the following Help Text files:
ca , da , de , en , es , fr , it , nl , no , pt , sv
The texts in question, found in the help_text.en.php file, are:
$pgv_lang["edit_ASSO_help"] = "~#factarray[ASSO]#~<br /><br />Enter the GEDCOM ID of the person whose relationship to the current person you wish to describe.";
$pgv_lang["edit_RELA_help"] = "~#factarray[RELA]#~<br /><br />Select a #factarray[RELA]# from the list. Selecting <b>#pgv_lang[godfather]#</b> means: <i>The person identified in the #factarray[ASSO]# field is the #pgv_lang[godfather]# of the current individual</i>.";
Tomasz:
To perhaps clarify the issue further, the following text will be added to the end of the edit_RELA_help text above:
<br /><br />To indicate that the current individual is a #pgv_lang[godchild]# of the person identified in the #factarray[ASSO]# field, you need to add the #factarray[ASSO]# fact to the record of the person identified in <u>this</u> #factarray[ASSO]# field. In that person's #factarray[ASSO]# fact you enter this person's GEDCOM ID and the #pgv_lang[godchild]# relationship.The previous text sounds good. But I'm not sure wether this additional clarification will clarify the case or rather will obscure it.
Tomasz:
You are right. The added text is confusing and is best left out.
Well,
on the page: https://gedcom.io/specs/
the gedcom 7.0.3 specification is available. In this version the ASSO is permitted also at the greater than 1st level...
BTW. There is also CEME tag used in PGV and in my ged files which is obsoleted by the 5.5 version of the GEDCOM. Why, why, why the versions are not back compatible so much?!
Tomasz:
Yes, I saw that too. PhpGedView claims to adhere to the GEDCOM 5.5.1 specification. I am NOT about to embark on making PhpGedView "compatible" with the new version of the GEDCOM "standard", even though it's widely acknowledged that the old specification has a lot of shortcomings.
This business of "let's improve the specification" happened with PHP too. PHP 7.4 broke a whole lot of programs, including PhpGedView. It took a LOT of effort to "correct" PhpGedView so that it would work not only with the latest-and-greatest PHP but also with all those older versions right back to 5.3.
I was NOT a "happy camper", but I had a LOT of help from several users in Sweden and in Germany. I could NOT have done this without their help.