Hi, I'm a writer (offline and web) and I'm a newbie to php/MySQL, but learning (initially how to crib and edit good scripts). I like this clever, free and user-friendly form generator and now have a nice working form on my www website (the '/form1.html' contents, with a path to its 'process.php' on my ccgi website - after trying different things I read in this Help Forum and changing from v8 to v9 and starting again). So I want to thank you and offer what may be constructive suggestions - I see a few issues that there may be simple answers to (I have observed the necessary permissions (excluding group and world read of files containing db password details, etc, and as far as my ISP's CCGI server allows, which excludes files with write permission for group and world for security reasons).
1. Setting up a form, to avoid having to go back after it's all done (or editing form1.html), maybe it should be made clear that 'columns' for text areas means No. of characters, not No. of word processor/DTP type columns? I eventually got it to '50' (not '1') for a nice text area width.
2. It is a bit confusing (and seems a waste of space) to repeat all the files for the first user-created form (both in '/forms' and in '/use/FIRST_FORM'). Is there a reason for this?
3. I receive e-mails (in IE6's Outlook Express) of (self-test) completed forms, but there is a flaw in that the listed uploaded file's URL is only partially blue/underlined (the rest being normal text - on a new line incidentally), so it is necessary to copy and paste it to the browser's address bar, rather than just clicking it. I know, it isn't a catastrophy, but it would be interesting to know what can cause this (IE6, my server, my version of php or MySQL or just maybe something in phpformgen such as No of characters?).
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Email problems can be corrected with minimal effort (usually). Other documentation shortcomings are an issue but the program is still quite useful.
Cross your fingers, maybe the next revision will contain better documentation. If not please keep sending comments. These comments can always be searched in this forum by people looking for answers.
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one of the design flaws on my part was I used field names input by the user as code variable names. I realize now that this was a bad choice. The next version has a generic naming scheme throughout, so certain problems will automatically be fixed, such as the file upload link issue.
As far as the documentation is concerned, I cannot judge what terminology would suit users best. In all fairness, that is a rather subjective matter. The wording I've used seems the most appropriate from my point of view, of course other users might not look at it the same way. Several users have written unofficial guides and faqs about using and installing the program, which I try to link from the website. However, there hasn't been anyone volunteering an official write up.
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May I comment about some changes in the next version. I made my first form and in total I had something like 39 fields (text, check boxes and radio buttons). When I finished the form and had copied the code to my website, I realized I needed to change some fields from check boxes to radio buttons and I needed to add some text fields. I did this in the html code, but then I had to revise the process.php file. I did that and had what I wanted until I realized the changes were not made to the database on my server and the entries were no longer being placed in the table on my database.
The point is that there are a lot of links that have to be 'renewed' after a change is made to the form or the changes will not be recognized by the email, the thank you letter, the database or the table in the database. This could probably be resolved by allowing the table to be changed in phpformgen's admin screen. There should be a 'revise' option for the table that would bring the user to his or her table and allow the user to change field types, change field length, change a field name, add a field or delete a field. At the end of the page, the NEXT button would re-write the files like Process.PHP.
Regarding the documentation, I think it would be smart to talk with someone who actually makes forms in the print world to ensure the terminology remains the same. And of course, the terminology of your software should follow industry standard. I was a little surprised when I put in a 'Comments or Question' text field, gave it a character length of 500 and found that meant per line. It is possible I misued that and should have used text area for the field type, but because making revisions means starting over from the beginning, I simply changed the character length and number of rows in dreamweaver.
Like the person who started this thread, I was a technical writer but for manufacturing equipment. I can help with the documentation but in truth I have made so many errors in producing my form and moving it to my website, that I don't trust myself to be a good source for documentation. But if I can make a suggestion on this, I would highly recommend using screen shots to help people understand the terms and learn the software. When I was in charge of a group of technical writers, I realized our readers often could not understand our work instructions because humans are not especially effective at encoding (writing) and decoding (reading), so I had two of my main writers study comic books for a day. Then we video taped processes, captured the images from the video and made comic books in Pagemaker. The documentation was easy to understand, and easy to asses as to whether it was right or wrong. Doing this in phpFormGenerator would help people understand your terminology because it would greatly reduce the encoding and decoding.
My own personal problem! I am trying to figure out how I can export the information from the completed form shown in my database table to my Outlook Contact database. Also, I would like to have a hidden field that stamps when the form was submitted. Do you see the advantage of that? After changing the Thank You layout, I realized the user should be able to print a copy of the thank you page for his or her records. How can I offer that option on the form or have the software strip off the email address and send a copy of the form to the email address?
I'm not going to comment on the majority of this post because everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. We do get the benifit of this tool for free.
As for your form customizations, I can help or guide you through those changes. Send me an email or post again here with your specific issues.
Here are some things to consider:
For your Outlook issue: find a way to export your contacts in some format (try different formats). When you find an easy format to use you can then add to either the process.php from the form or the index.php from the admin to produce the file required to import into Outlook using the same format.
Hidden date stamps in your form are possible. I think you'll have to add them manually. I did it once so I can go back and provide details if you need specific instructions.
For the copy of the info being sent to the user you could add a check box that indicates "submit copy to user" in the form and then change the process.php file to send the same message to another email address based on the check box value.
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Regarding the fact that we all get to use this software for free, I am not sure I see it the same way as you do. As a user of free software, I think I have an obligation to make suggestions that I feel will make it more useable - those are the minimum dues. I do not beleive my post was written in a complaining tone, but perhaps you have heard enough complaints that they are starting to pile up. Think of it this way - this software needs critical analysis as much as it needs help with the documentation. Both will make the software better and more useable and that one thing will make the software more popular among website developers. If the comments I made were seen as complaining, I am sorry. It was not my intent to complain but my intent to give what I felt was an accurate observation and a "user's" version of a solution.
My form works fine and I really do not want to tamper with it at this time. I will make changes to it as time goes by, but for now, I need something up and running. The idea regarding the check box should work fine. Do you have an idea as to what the code would look like in process.php? I can probably find something similar to this on someone's published form but that would take a while.
The date stamp would be appreciated if you have it. I was thinking of finding a date stamp online and then just putting it in a hidden file. The thing is, I want it to be a part of the actual entry into the table so I know roughly six months or a year from now exactly when the request for info was made.
I will have to do a lot of experimenting with the Outlook thing. I think I will create a new form that I will not use to see what type of migration is allowed.
Have a good day.
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My comments were not meant to be critical so my appologies if this is the way it was interpreted. The amount of work that goes into creating SW and SW documentation is not trival. All comments are appreciated and viewed as potential constructive critisism and is considered for inclusion in future releases. This is how SW is corrected and improved.
DATE:
addition to form1.html
<form>
..
<input type='hidden' name='EntryDate' value=' '>
</form>
additions to process.php
<?php
include("global.inc.php");
$today = date("m.d.y");
pt_register('POST','FirstName');
pt_register('POST','LastName');
pt_register('POST','EntryDate');
$message="FirstName: ".$FirstName."
LastName: ".$LastName."
EntryDate: ".$today."";
Any other updates to mySQL or data file, etc..
CHECKBOX:
addition to form1.html
<form>
..
<input type=checkbox name='Mailtome'>
</form>
additions to process.php
<?php
pt_register('POST','Mailtome');
if ($Mailtome) {
mail("usersemail","Form Submitted at your website",$message,"From: phpFormGenerator");
}
OUTLOOK:
Here is an example csv file from Outlook.
"First Name","Last Name","E-mail Address"
"MyFirstName","MyLastName","myemail@myurl.com"
This file could be imported back into Outlook. This type of file could be created from your form and process.php file.
Some example php code to write a csv file:
$make=fopen("contacts.csv","a");
$to_put=""First Name","Last Name","E-mail Address"";
$to_put .= $FirstName.",".$LastName.",".$EmailAddress."
";
fwrite($make,$to_put);
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Feel free to voice your concerns, I don't have a problem with that. However, I do find it annoying when the message becomes redundant. It has been discussed in many many (many!) posts that form editing feature is not available in the current version. We've been over it a lot of times. Therefore, repeating the same issue yet again is futile. Furthermore, I've already posted the feature list of the next version that includes a form editing system. So what is the point in repeating the same stuff? The only purpose it will serve is annoying the developers and not want to cater to such ungrateful users. So yes, voice your concern, but I expect the users to do some research and not speak out of ignorance.
Secondly, we are not in any "industry". The whole point of free software is to develop and share code without any formal mumbo jumbo intrusion. If a user volunteers to write documentation, great. If not, I'm not going to force anyone or pay for an official documentation writer if thats what you are expecting.
Lastly, you should consider all this as a courtesy service. Remember that you are using free software, and are not obligated to pay a single dime. That doesn't nullify the effort the developers put into creating the software, for which there is no monetary compensation.
Bottom line is, the user should also do his or her part. I'm sure TNT is annoyed like hell because different users ask the same darn question over and over and over again. Yet overlooking the users' lazy attitude, he still responds to them. I just hope the users will start realizing all this.
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You said, "Feel free to voice your concerns, I don't have a problem with that." Apparently you do or you would not have spent so much time defining users who asks these questions as having a "lazy attitude" and speaking "out of ignorance."
You and TNT might ask yourselves why new users are asking the same question over and over. I have 'years' of experience in documentation; and I can tell you that when different people ask the same question (over and over), it is because the question was not answered in the first place or the answer was hidden so deeply or written so crytically as to be unavailable. e reason people are asking these questions and making the same recommendations is that if you do have documentation, it is so poorly written and so poorly organized as to be virtually worthless.
I spent several days building a form from phpformgen and based on what I have seen, I cannot begin to have confidence in the software. That lack of confidence stems from the fact that the only way you can manage your software development is to measure it, and the only way you can measure its organization and logic is to write the documentation. That single process forces you to acknowledge the faults in logic. And yes, you have every right to demand that users contribute to the development by contributing money or contributing service. I do not expect you to pay for a writer, but you can poll users to find out their strengths and ask them to contribute according to their strengths. For example, in the last week,you have had two writers who have complained about the documentation and yet you've called neither of us on it.
This was a learning experience for me. Unfortunately, I do not have enough confidence in the details you pay to your work (based on the attitude you've displayed toward criticism, questions, and suggestions regarding the software and documentation) to risk losing possible sales through faulty form generation created out of my ignorance. That is the harsh reality of my situation and is not meant as a slam against either of you. Obviously, out of respect for you and your work, it is only right for me to remove the software and find an alternative.
Best regards and good luck.
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Again, your arrogant behavior has left you blind folded. Let me ask you a simple question. Did you sift through the forums looking for this issue? Take some time and go through it. If you don't find the answers, come nag about it. The reason why people keep asking the same questions is not because we don't address them properly, its because most users (including me) are too lazy to look for answers in the first place. And by addressing I don't mean a solution, i've already mentioned that in my last post. If you wanted to spend a little energy looking, you would immediately encounter the v3.0 feature list post. That is like 10 or so messages below this message in the forum. Is that too many messages to go through when looking for answers? Secondly, organization of the forums is up to Sourceforge, not me! Be careful where you place the blame. Next, you said that we had 2 documentation writers in the last week, and I didn't ask any one of them. Why didn't anyone offer their services? When you volunteer for something, you offer service... you are not begged or forced into committing. You see, you are obviously just trying to find faults and throwing the blame on the developers. What an ungrateful attitude toward "FREE" software! And what "possible sales" are you talking about? Are you unable to comprehend that the software is free? We make no money off it. zilch, zero, nada! All that we are doing here is a courtesy service to the opensource community.
Lastly, you need not boast your "documentation writing" profession here. If you google my name you'll get a good idea about my qualifications which will place you out of my league. Never the less, I do not tend to come in and make statements like "I'm a professional at this therefore I must be right!". In any case, if you have a problem with the program by all means stop using it. You are acting like as if you are doing us a favor by using the program. It is not as if we'll be losing money or anything material over you, so do whatever you please.
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You said, "And what "possible sales" are you talking about? Are you unable to comprehend that the software is free?" Ali are you unable to read? My comment was this, "I do not have enough confidence in the details you pay to your work (based on the attitude you've displayed toward criticism, questions, and suggestions regarding the software and documentation) to risk losing possible sales through faulty form generation created out of my ignorance." How you got from my comment to your conclusion that I think the software is for sale is well beyond me.
Ever hear the saying, "you can't unring a bell." I will be using forms to obtain information from potential customers. If the forms are unreliable and I do not get the request for information from a viewer, I risk losing a possible customer. More than that, if a customer submits a completed form and I do not respond, he or she will think I do not care and could go to my competitor.
This type of thing can easily happen and I would not know it had occurred because, out of my ignorance of the software, I could have created a form on my website that is unreliable. It can be even worse. For exmaple, while creating the form from your software, I reset some permissions for another important web tool I had created and suddenly I could not get into it. Eventually I got my service provider to fix it for me, but it just shows how quickly something bad can come from not knowing exactly what to do.
Did I look for answers? Yes I did, but when I searched and got conficting answers for my problem or found different shades of the same problem, each offering a different solution with people using different terminology, I quit looking because I was becoming more and more confused. But no I did not go look for what would be in some upcoming version of the software because I do not need to add confusion to the confusion. The suggestion about revisions could have been handled more effectively by you or TNT simply by linking me to the post you have referred to.
While I made it clear that I have years of experience in writing documentation and in managing a group of writers (and as I said, not SW documentation but work instructions), I did not volunteer to write the documentation because I do not understand your software well enough to provide instructions to anyone. I made that clear - very clear. Whether you wish to acknowledge this or not, phpformmanager will never be a good sound software until you recruit someone to write sound documentation. It would seem to me, that as the project manager, you would have taken responsibility for this early on and would have ensured that documentation grow along with the software.
I did a google on you as you suggested. I am not sure what that was supposed to prove. I do not see where any thing on line proves your skills. You were almost always a part of a team and your contribution to the results could have been neglible. How do I know otherwise, and nothing on your sites prove you have any writing skills. I would never hire someone to be a technical writer based simply on what you have shown on your various sites. If you want to prove you can write, do a quick good chapter on proper installation of your software.
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Oh I see, so now the problem is not about the "database exporting and time stamp", but rather the reliability of the form. You are now concerned if the data ever reaches you or not. Wow, ok.. to that I have no response. You are crossing borders and sitting there arguing like a little kid totally defying logic. To that, I will respond no more. Please quit using the program, your worries will be over.
Secondly, again a sign of ignorance and an utter lazy attitude... the name of the program is "phpFormGenerator"... not phpformmanager. But ah yes, of course that was a naming design flaw on my part.. you couldn't possibly be wrong.
Lastly, you googled and didn't find anything? Try again. I have a doctoral degree in computer science, have published technical papers at some of the major ACM and IEEE conferences and journals, and am an official GNU maintainer. In addition, I've also done ports development for OpenBSD and was the lead for the OpenBeOS OpenGL kit before it switched to Haiku. And those are "ALL" first authorships. Also, what "teams" are you talking about? I have never put out any software working in a "team". phpFormGenerator was written single handedly by myself.. so has any other project that I have released. TNT helps out (and helps out a lot) with answering questions and assisting users. I appreciate that, and therefore I think he deserves to be listed as a member of the development team. Of course, then people like you come along and "assume". So bottom line, am I a documentation writer? huh.. no. I'm a technical person.. I could care less about documentation. Whether the program well ever be a "good sound software".. let the stats be the judge of that. phpFormGenerator has a user base of about 20,000. It is packaged with cPanel, which is installed by almost all web hosting companies. The project website receives around 10,000 hits per DAY. And it is always in the top 500 projects on Sourceforge. So is it a successful software? I think very much so. Can "bad, not sound software" be successful? I doubt it. Conclusion: umm.. yea, the stats against your word, need I say more?
Look man, it is obvious to me that you are trying to back yourself up for some odd reason that is beyond my comprehension. You started off by stating that you could not export data for the forms you created, and now you are talking about if the form is reliable and if the data reaches you each time. I will keep countering, and you will keep switching excuses. I've heard that stupid people in large numbers are dangerous, but what is more dangerous is a single stubborn person with a dogmatic attitude.
Parting words, I think you do not deserve to use this program at this point. I would like you to not use the program, this version or v3.0 or any other versions for that matter. There is no room for you in the phpFormGenerator community, you will not receive any assistance from myself in any shape or form (no pun intended).. whether TNT decides to help you is up to him. Lastly, you are polluting the forums with this nonsense. So if you don't have anything meaningful to say, you shouldn't post any further.
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There is really only one issue of contention and you continue to avoid the conversation. WRITE THE DOCUMENTATION! Nothing is complete until the documentation is complete. Before you develop any additional versions of the software, document what you now have. You are not helping anyone when you put stuff up on SourceForge and do not support the users with documentation. What is wrong that you do not understand that.
Yes, I went from questions about database export and timestamp to a concern about reliability, and once again, it is not about reliability of something inherent in the software but more a concern about my ability to create a reliable system using the instructions provided with the software. I have no way of measuring the reliability and no documentation or information map to help me.
Why did I lose my confidence in the form I had created?
1. When I changed permissions to access this form created with your software, I lost access two other php sites and now I feel lucky to have them back.
2. When I imported process.php onto my website format, I continued to have problems with the look of the site until I deleted the following line in process.php
<!-- This is the content of the Thank you page, be careful while changing it -->
I could delete it and the thank you page would look fine. I would put it back in and the thank you page would go to crap again. So I took it out and left it. But what do you think that does to my confidence in my site. Since I have no programming skills, I am swatting in the dark and I must (absolutely MUST) have confidence in the form and everything that generates from it.
3. And there is no explanation as to why we have so many form1.php/form2.php and process.php files, what purpose they serve, whether the files can be renamed to something descriptive of the form or what would happen should we rename the files. For example, what does form2.php do, why is it there, and why does it have references to Haar?
I will delete phpFormGenerator and stop using it, but I will pass on all of my concerns to SourceForge and to the people who distribute CPanel (Fantastico). I will also write a review of your software to let possible users know they should not use phpFormGenerator unless they have a great deal of confidence in their own programming skills.
And I am sorry about the name - that was unintended. I was reviewing another software and got the names confused.
Best regards,
Maartindijk
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Can we stop now? As far as I'm concerned, there are no PHP scripts that have adequate documentation! IMO, the documentation for almost everything in the computer world stinks!!
Can we let musawir go back to writing the new version now?
Thanks.
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1. I will not write documentation, i hope thats explicit enough for you. If you can't use the program, thats due to your own incompetency. Like I mentioned earlier, if 20,000 people are able to use the program, then that just says one thing about you. The program is meant for newbie users, but not retards.
2. Changing permissions in one directory does not mess anything else. Its almost insanely hilarious that you actually think creating a form makes you lose other php sites. There is no connection. It seems like you are very new to web applications and I think computers in general. I suggest you hire someone to do this for you.
3. If you knew programming, you would know what the files are for. How could you possibly comment on the usefulness/uselessness of files when you don't know the ABCs of PHP? Heck you don't even seem to know how file/directory permissions work let alone code.
4. You can write all the reviews you want, but it would be like me writing an article in a medical journal about how penicillin doesn't work ... and i don't know anything about medicine. But thats ok, I think you are angry and need to cool off. Write those reviews if it makes you feel better, but the fact remains that your incompetence and refusal to improve your own understanding will just make you look like a clown. Actually, let me make a wager. If you can successfully get the program removed from either sourceforge or cpanel, I will literally pay you dollar for every word written on this forum post so far. So go forth and spread the word, it is actually quite entertaining to see the irrational rants of clueless pissed of people.
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How in the world do you jump to so many conclusions? What makes you think I want SF or CPanel to drop your software? Where did I say that? I want to let people who are limited in programming skills know your software is can be difficult for a variety of reasons and that tampering with some of the code can make it unreliable.
We can swap insults all day long but how does that help anyone. Look, you list yourself as project manaqer. Be a manager and get the documentation written. If you want to see good documentation, go to https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=9444. It is the documentation for Owl Knowledgebase. The person who is the project manager knows what managing a project entails. Be smart, follow the lead of a successful software.
I recommend you follow eclipsetbs' advice as get busy revising this software - right after you write the documentation for the one you dumped on us.
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last message to this conversation... stop posting, you are polluting the forums with pointless crap. I have told you very explicitly, and I'm telling you again for the last time.. I will _not_ revise the documentation. as simple as that. my ball, my rules. .. you obviously don't seem to be responding to logic, so thats the attitude I'm going to take. you should stop using the program and get on with whatever it is you do.. oh wait, yea i remember.. you write documentation.. so go and write documentation, and stop advising me to do the same.. thats not something that I do.
END OF CONVERSATION
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Hi, I'm a writer (offline and web) and I'm a newbie to php/MySQL, but learning (initially how to crib and edit good scripts). I like this clever, free and user-friendly form generator and now have a nice working form on my www website (the '/form1.html' contents, with a path to its 'process.php' on my ccgi website - after trying different things I read in this Help Forum and changing from v8 to v9 and starting again). So I want to thank you and offer what may be constructive suggestions - I see a few issues that there may be simple answers to (I have observed the necessary permissions (excluding group and world read of files containing db password details, etc, and as far as my ISP's CCGI server allows, which excludes files with write permission for group and world for security reasons).
1. Setting up a form, to avoid having to go back after it's all done (or editing form1.html), maybe it should be made clear that 'columns' for text areas means No. of characters, not No. of word processor/DTP type columns? I eventually got it to '50' (not '1') for a nice text area width.
2. It is a bit confusing (and seems a waste of space) to repeat all the files for the first user-created form (both in '/forms' and in '/use/FIRST_FORM'). Is there a reason for this?
3. I receive e-mails (in IE6's Outlook Express) of (self-test) completed forms, but there is a flaw in that the listed uploaded file's URL is only partially blue/underlined (the rest being normal text - on a new line incidentally), so it is necessary to copy and paste it to the browser's address bar, rather than just clicking it. I know, it isn't a catastrophy, but it would be interesting to know what can cause this (IE6, my server, my version of php or MySQL or just maybe something in phpformgen such as No of characters?).
Email problems can be corrected with minimal effort (usually). Other documentation shortcomings are an issue but the program is still quite useful.
Cross your fingers, maybe the next revision will contain better documentation. If not please keep sending comments. These comments can always be searched in this forum by people looking for answers.
one of the design flaws on my part was I used field names input by the user as code variable names. I realize now that this was a bad choice. The next version has a generic naming scheme throughout, so certain problems will automatically be fixed, such as the file upload link issue.
As far as the documentation is concerned, I cannot judge what terminology would suit users best. In all fairness, that is a rather subjective matter. The wording I've used seems the most appropriate from my point of view, of course other users might not look at it the same way. Several users have written unofficial guides and faqs about using and installing the program, which I try to link from the website. However, there hasn't been anyone volunteering an official write up.
May I comment about some changes in the next version. I made my first form and in total I had something like 39 fields (text, check boxes and radio buttons). When I finished the form and had copied the code to my website, I realized I needed to change some fields from check boxes to radio buttons and I needed to add some text fields. I did this in the html code, but then I had to revise the process.php file. I did that and had what I wanted until I realized the changes were not made to the database on my server and the entries were no longer being placed in the table on my database.
The point is that there are a lot of links that have to be 'renewed' after a change is made to the form or the changes will not be recognized by the email, the thank you letter, the database or the table in the database. This could probably be resolved by allowing the table to be changed in phpformgen's admin screen. There should be a 'revise' option for the table that would bring the user to his or her table and allow the user to change field types, change field length, change a field name, add a field or delete a field. At the end of the page, the NEXT button would re-write the files like Process.PHP.
Regarding the documentation, I think it would be smart to talk with someone who actually makes forms in the print world to ensure the terminology remains the same. And of course, the terminology of your software should follow industry standard. I was a little surprised when I put in a 'Comments or Question' text field, gave it a character length of 500 and found that meant per line. It is possible I misued that and should have used text area for the field type, but because making revisions means starting over from the beginning, I simply changed the character length and number of rows in dreamweaver.
Like the person who started this thread, I was a technical writer but for manufacturing equipment. I can help with the documentation but in truth I have made so many errors in producing my form and moving it to my website, that I don't trust myself to be a good source for documentation. But if I can make a suggestion on this, I would highly recommend using screen shots to help people understand the terms and learn the software. When I was in charge of a group of technical writers, I realized our readers often could not understand our work instructions because humans are not especially effective at encoding (writing) and decoding (reading), so I had two of my main writers study comic books for a day. Then we video taped processes, captured the images from the video and made comic books in Pagemaker. The documentation was easy to understand, and easy to asses as to whether it was right or wrong. Doing this in phpFormGenerator would help people understand your terminology because it would greatly reduce the encoding and decoding.
My own personal problem! I am trying to figure out how I can export the information from the completed form shown in my database table to my Outlook Contact database. Also, I would like to have a hidden field that stamps when the form was submitted. Do you see the advantage of that? After changing the Thank You layout, I realized the user should be able to print a copy of the thank you page for his or her records. How can I offer that option on the form or have the software strip off the email address and send a copy of the form to the email address?
Sometimes I think I must be the world's biggest idiot when it comes to things like this. Oh, my form is at http://www.hvit-llc.com/requestinfo/use/RFI_Cutoff/form1.html
Regards,
Darryl
I'm not going to comment on the majority of this post because everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. We do get the benifit of this tool for free.
As for your form customizations, I can help or guide you through those changes. Send me an email or post again here with your specific issues.
Here are some things to consider:
For your Outlook issue: find a way to export your contacts in some format (try different formats). When you find an easy format to use you can then add to either the process.php from the form or the index.php from the admin to produce the file required to import into Outlook using the same format.
Hidden date stamps in your form are possible. I think you'll have to add them manually. I did it once so I can go back and provide details if you need specific instructions.
For the copy of the info being sent to the user you could add a check box that indicates "submit copy to user" in the form and then change the process.php file to send the same message to another email address based on the check box value.
Regarding the fact that we all get to use this software for free, I am not sure I see it the same way as you do. As a user of free software, I think I have an obligation to make suggestions that I feel will make it more useable - those are the minimum dues. I do not beleive my post was written in a complaining tone, but perhaps you have heard enough complaints that they are starting to pile up. Think of it this way - this software needs critical analysis as much as it needs help with the documentation. Both will make the software better and more useable and that one thing will make the software more popular among website developers. If the comments I made were seen as complaining, I am sorry. It was not my intent to complain but my intent to give what I felt was an accurate observation and a "user's" version of a solution.
My form works fine and I really do not want to tamper with it at this time. I will make changes to it as time goes by, but for now, I need something up and running. The idea regarding the check box should work fine. Do you have an idea as to what the code would look like in process.php? I can probably find something similar to this on someone's published form but that would take a while.
The date stamp would be appreciated if you have it. I was thinking of finding a date stamp online and then just putting it in a hidden file. The thing is, I want it to be a part of the actual entry into the table so I know roughly six months or a year from now exactly when the request for info was made.
I will have to do a lot of experimenting with the Outlook thing. I think I will create a new form that I will not use to see what type of migration is allowed.
Have a good day.
My comments were not meant to be critical so my appologies if this is the way it was interpreted. The amount of work that goes into creating SW and SW documentation is not trival. All comments are appreciated and viewed as potential constructive critisism and is considered for inclusion in future releases. This is how SW is corrected and improved.
DATE:
addition to form1.html
<form>
..
<input type='hidden' name='EntryDate' value=' '>
</form>
additions to process.php
<?php
include("global.inc.php");
$today = date("m.d.y");
pt_register('POST','FirstName');
pt_register('POST','LastName');
pt_register('POST','EntryDate');
$message="FirstName: ".$FirstName."
LastName: ".$LastName."
EntryDate: ".$today."";
Any other updates to mySQL or data file, etc..
CHECKBOX:
addition to form1.html
<form>
..
<input type=checkbox name='Mailtome'>
</form>
additions to process.php
<?php
pt_register('POST','Mailtome');
if ($Mailtome) {
mail("usersemail","Form Submitted at your website",$message,"From: phpFormGenerator");
}
OUTLOOK:
Here is an example csv file from Outlook.
"First Name","Last Name","E-mail Address"
"MyFirstName","MyLastName","myemail@myurl.com"
This file could be imported back into Outlook. This type of file could be created from your form and process.php file.
Some example php code to write a csv file:
$make=fopen("contacts.csv","a");
$to_put=""First Name","Last Name","E-mail Address"";
$to_put .= $FirstName.",".$LastName.",".$EmailAddress."
";
fwrite($make,$to_put);
Feel free to voice your concerns, I don't have a problem with that. However, I do find it annoying when the message becomes redundant. It has been discussed in many many (many!) posts that form editing feature is not available in the current version. We've been over it a lot of times. Therefore, repeating the same issue yet again is futile. Furthermore, I've already posted the feature list of the next version that includes a form editing system. So what is the point in repeating the same stuff? The only purpose it will serve is annoying the developers and not want to cater to such ungrateful users. So yes, voice your concern, but I expect the users to do some research and not speak out of ignorance.
Secondly, we are not in any "industry". The whole point of free software is to develop and share code without any formal mumbo jumbo intrusion. If a user volunteers to write documentation, great. If not, I'm not going to force anyone or pay for an official documentation writer if thats what you are expecting.
Lastly, you should consider all this as a courtesy service. Remember that you are using free software, and are not obligated to pay a single dime. That doesn't nullify the effort the developers put into creating the software, for which there is no monetary compensation.
Bottom line is, the user should also do his or her part. I'm sure TNT is annoyed like hell because different users ask the same darn question over and over and over again. Yet overlooking the users' lazy attitude, he still responds to them. I just hope the users will start realizing all this.
You said, "Feel free to voice your concerns, I don't have a problem with that." Apparently you do or you would not have spent so much time defining users who asks these questions as having a "lazy attitude" and speaking "out of ignorance."
You and TNT might ask yourselves why new users are asking the same question over and over. I have 'years' of experience in documentation; and I can tell you that when different people ask the same question (over and over), it is because the question was not answered in the first place or the answer was hidden so deeply or written so crytically as to be unavailable. e reason people are asking these questions and making the same recommendations is that if you do have documentation, it is so poorly written and so poorly organized as to be virtually worthless.
I spent several days building a form from phpformgen and based on what I have seen, I cannot begin to have confidence in the software. That lack of confidence stems from the fact that the only way you can manage your software development is to measure it, and the only way you can measure its organization and logic is to write the documentation. That single process forces you to acknowledge the faults in logic. And yes, you have every right to demand that users contribute to the development by contributing money or contributing service. I do not expect you to pay for a writer, but you can poll users to find out their strengths and ask them to contribute according to their strengths. For example, in the last week,you have had two writers who have complained about the documentation and yet you've called neither of us on it.
This was a learning experience for me. Unfortunately, I do not have enough confidence in the details you pay to your work (based on the attitude you've displayed toward criticism, questions, and suggestions regarding the software and documentation) to risk losing possible sales through faulty form generation created out of my ignorance. That is the harsh reality of my situation and is not meant as a slam against either of you. Obviously, out of respect for you and your work, it is only right for me to remove the software and find an alternative.
Best regards and good luck.
Again, your arrogant behavior has left you blind folded. Let me ask you a simple question. Did you sift through the forums looking for this issue? Take some time and go through it. If you don't find the answers, come nag about it. The reason why people keep asking the same questions is not because we don't address them properly, its because most users (including me) are too lazy to look for answers in the first place. And by addressing I don't mean a solution, i've already mentioned that in my last post. If you wanted to spend a little energy looking, you would immediately encounter the v3.0 feature list post. That is like 10 or so messages below this message in the forum. Is that too many messages to go through when looking for answers? Secondly, organization of the forums is up to Sourceforge, not me! Be careful where you place the blame. Next, you said that we had 2 documentation writers in the last week, and I didn't ask any one of them. Why didn't anyone offer their services? When you volunteer for something, you offer service... you are not begged or forced into committing. You see, you are obviously just trying to find faults and throwing the blame on the developers. What an ungrateful attitude toward "FREE" software! And what "possible sales" are you talking about? Are you unable to comprehend that the software is free? We make no money off it. zilch, zero, nada! All that we are doing here is a courtesy service to the opensource community.
Lastly, you need not boast your "documentation writing" profession here. If you google my name you'll get a good idea about my qualifications which will place you out of my league. Never the less, I do not tend to come in and make statements like "I'm a professional at this therefore I must be right!". In any case, if you have a problem with the program by all means stop using it. You are acting like as if you are doing us a favor by using the program. It is not as if we'll be losing money or anything material over you, so do whatever you please.
You said, "And what "possible sales" are you talking about? Are you unable to comprehend that the software is free?" Ali are you unable to read? My comment was this, "I do not have enough confidence in the details you pay to your work (based on the attitude you've displayed toward criticism, questions, and suggestions regarding the software and documentation) to risk losing possible sales through faulty form generation created out of my ignorance." How you got from my comment to your conclusion that I think the software is for sale is well beyond me.
Ever hear the saying, "you can't unring a bell." I will be using forms to obtain information from potential customers. If the forms are unreliable and I do not get the request for information from a viewer, I risk losing a possible customer. More than that, if a customer submits a completed form and I do not respond, he or she will think I do not care and could go to my competitor.
This type of thing can easily happen and I would not know it had occurred because, out of my ignorance of the software, I could have created a form on my website that is unreliable. It can be even worse. For exmaple, while creating the form from your software, I reset some permissions for another important web tool I had created and suddenly I could not get into it. Eventually I got my service provider to fix it for me, but it just shows how quickly something bad can come from not knowing exactly what to do.
Did I look for answers? Yes I did, but when I searched and got conficting answers for my problem or found different shades of the same problem, each offering a different solution with people using different terminology, I quit looking because I was becoming more and more confused. But no I did not go look for what would be in some upcoming version of the software because I do not need to add confusion to the confusion. The suggestion about revisions could have been handled more effectively by you or TNT simply by linking me to the post you have referred to.
While I made it clear that I have years of experience in writing documentation and in managing a group of writers (and as I said, not SW documentation but work instructions), I did not volunteer to write the documentation because I do not understand your software well enough to provide instructions to anyone. I made that clear - very clear. Whether you wish to acknowledge this or not, phpformmanager will never be a good sound software until you recruit someone to write sound documentation. It would seem to me, that as the project manager, you would have taken responsibility for this early on and would have ensured that documentation grow along with the software.
I did a google on you as you suggested. I am not sure what that was supposed to prove. I do not see where any thing on line proves your skills. You were almost always a part of a team and your contribution to the results could have been neglible. How do I know otherwise, and nothing on your sites prove you have any writing skills. I would never hire someone to be a technical writer based simply on what you have shown on your various sites. If you want to prove you can write, do a quick good chapter on proper installation of your software.
Oh I see, so now the problem is not about the "database exporting and time stamp", but rather the reliability of the form. You are now concerned if the data ever reaches you or not. Wow, ok.. to that I have no response. You are crossing borders and sitting there arguing like a little kid totally defying logic. To that, I will respond no more. Please quit using the program, your worries will be over.
Secondly, again a sign of ignorance and an utter lazy attitude... the name of the program is "phpFormGenerator"... not phpformmanager. But ah yes, of course that was a naming design flaw on my part.. you couldn't possibly be wrong.
Lastly, you googled and didn't find anything? Try again. I have a doctoral degree in computer science, have published technical papers at some of the major ACM and IEEE conferences and journals, and am an official GNU maintainer. In addition, I've also done ports development for OpenBSD and was the lead for the OpenBeOS OpenGL kit before it switched to Haiku. And those are "ALL" first authorships. Also, what "teams" are you talking about? I have never put out any software working in a "team". phpFormGenerator was written single handedly by myself.. so has any other project that I have released. TNT helps out (and helps out a lot) with answering questions and assisting users. I appreciate that, and therefore I think he deserves to be listed as a member of the development team. Of course, then people like you come along and "assume". So bottom line, am I a documentation writer? huh.. no. I'm a technical person.. I could care less about documentation. Whether the program well ever be a "good sound software".. let the stats be the judge of that. phpFormGenerator has a user base of about 20,000. It is packaged with cPanel, which is installed by almost all web hosting companies. The project website receives around 10,000 hits per DAY. And it is always in the top 500 projects on Sourceforge. So is it a successful software? I think very much so. Can "bad, not sound software" be successful? I doubt it. Conclusion: umm.. yea, the stats against your word, need I say more?
Look man, it is obvious to me that you are trying to back yourself up for some odd reason that is beyond my comprehension. You started off by stating that you could not export data for the forms you created, and now you are talking about if the form is reliable and if the data reaches you each time. I will keep countering, and you will keep switching excuses. I've heard that stupid people in large numbers are dangerous, but what is more dangerous is a single stubborn person with a dogmatic attitude.
Parting words, I think you do not deserve to use this program at this point. I would like you to not use the program, this version or v3.0 or any other versions for that matter. There is no room for you in the phpFormGenerator community, you will not receive any assistance from myself in any shape or form (no pun intended).. whether TNT decides to help you is up to him. Lastly, you are polluting the forums with this nonsense. So if you don't have anything meaningful to say, you shouldn't post any further.
There is really only one issue of contention and you continue to avoid the conversation. WRITE THE DOCUMENTATION! Nothing is complete until the documentation is complete. Before you develop any additional versions of the software, document what you now have. You are not helping anyone when you put stuff up on SourceForge and do not support the users with documentation. What is wrong that you do not understand that.
Yes, I went from questions about database export and timestamp to a concern about reliability, and once again, it is not about reliability of something inherent in the software but more a concern about my ability to create a reliable system using the instructions provided with the software. I have no way of measuring the reliability and no documentation or information map to help me.
Why did I lose my confidence in the form I had created?
1. When I changed permissions to access this form created with your software, I lost access two other php sites and now I feel lucky to have them back.
2. When I imported process.php onto my website format, I continued to have problems with the look of the site until I deleted the following line in process.php
<!-- This is the content of the Thank you page, be careful while changing it -->
I could delete it and the thank you page would look fine. I would put it back in and the thank you page would go to crap again. So I took it out and left it. But what do you think that does to my confidence in my site. Since I have no programming skills, I am swatting in the dark and I must (absolutely MUST) have confidence in the form and everything that generates from it.
3. And there is no explanation as to why we have so many form1.php/form2.php and process.php files, what purpose they serve, whether the files can be renamed to something descriptive of the form or what would happen should we rename the files. For example, what does form2.php do, why is it there, and why does it have references to Haar?
I will delete phpFormGenerator and stop using it, but I will pass on all of my concerns to SourceForge and to the people who distribute CPanel (Fantastico). I will also write a review of your software to let possible users know they should not use phpFormGenerator unless they have a great deal of confidence in their own programming skills.
And I am sorry about the name - that was unintended. I was reviewing another software and got the names confused.
Best regards,
Maartindijk
Can we stop now? As far as I'm concerned, there are no PHP scripts that have adequate documentation! IMO, the documentation for almost everything in the computer world stinks!!
Can we let musawir go back to writing the new version now?
Thanks.
1. I will not write documentation, i hope thats explicit enough for you. If you can't use the program, thats due to your own incompetency. Like I mentioned earlier, if 20,000 people are able to use the program, then that just says one thing about you. The program is meant for newbie users, but not retards.
2. Changing permissions in one directory does not mess anything else. Its almost insanely hilarious that you actually think creating a form makes you lose other php sites. There is no connection. It seems like you are very new to web applications and I think computers in general. I suggest you hire someone to do this for you.
3. If you knew programming, you would know what the files are for. How could you possibly comment on the usefulness/uselessness of files when you don't know the ABCs of PHP? Heck you don't even seem to know how file/directory permissions work let alone code.
4. You can write all the reviews you want, but it would be like me writing an article in a medical journal about how penicillin doesn't work ... and i don't know anything about medicine. But thats ok, I think you are angry and need to cool off. Write those reviews if it makes you feel better, but the fact remains that your incompetence and refusal to improve your own understanding will just make you look like a clown. Actually, let me make a wager. If you can successfully get the program removed from either sourceforge or cpanel, I will literally pay you dollar for every word written on this forum post so far. So go forth and spread the word, it is actually quite entertaining to see the irrational rants of clueless pissed of people.
How in the world do you jump to so many conclusions? What makes you think I want SF or CPanel to drop your software? Where did I say that? I want to let people who are limited in programming skills know your software is can be difficult for a variety of reasons and that tampering with some of the code can make it unreliable.
We can swap insults all day long but how does that help anyone. Look, you list yourself as project manaqer. Be a manager and get the documentation written. If you want to see good documentation, go to https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=9444. It is the documentation for Owl Knowledgebase. The person who is the project manager knows what managing a project entails. Be smart, follow the lead of a successful software.
I recommend you follow eclipsetbs' advice as get busy revising this software - right after you write the documentation for the one you dumped on us.
I'm sorry - that would eschamps' advice. He is the one who thinks this software needs revised now. He must be having problems with it too.
last message to this conversation... stop posting, you are polluting the forums with pointless crap. I have told you very explicitly, and I'm telling you again for the last time.. I will _not_ revise the documentation. as simple as that. my ball, my rules. .. you obviously don't seem to be responding to logic, so thats the attitude I'm going to take. you should stop using the program and get on with whatever it is you do.. oh wait, yea i remember.. you write documentation.. so go and write documentation, and stop advising me to do the same.. thats not something that I do.
END OF CONVERSATION