perl-win32-gui-hackers — Hacking and developing the Win32::GUI Perl extension

Re: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] Web Presence

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Robert May schrieb:
> http://www.robmay.me.uk/win32gui/website/
> 
> Particularly I'd like to know:
> (1) Whether it lays out nicely in your browser, or whether it screws up.

looks fine for firefox and MSIE6.

> (2) What your browser user agent is.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; de-AT; rv:1.8b) Gecko/20050217

> (3) Your comments on the style/colors other artistic impressions.
> - I still have some content to write, and the list of links on the front 
> page will be layed out differently

ok.

> (4) Your Technical comments

http://www.robmay.me.uk/win32gui/website/docs/Win32/GUI.html TOC
Typo:
     * Introdction

> - I am aware that there is a bit of Javascript - that will be removed 
> (it simply adds the IE version to the titlebar so I can keep track of 
> which window is which).
> - The news section will be fed automatically from the Sourceforge RSS feed.
> 
> (5) Anything that you'd like to see in the future.

Screenshots as jeremy already noted and maybe put/link Aldo's old 
examples somewhere, even if some of them don't work out of the box anymore.

maybe add a wiki to let people add their samples. There cannot be enough 
samples.

> Assuming there's no major issues, then I plan to put something close to 
> this up at http://perl-win32-gui.sourceforge.net/ and link the 'home' 
> link from the project page to it.

ok for me.

-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/
http://phpwiki.org/

RE: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] Web Presence

[Jeremy W. <jez...@ho...>]

>I've spent the last week or so struggling to come to terms with CSS and its 
>non-standard implementations accros browsers.  I have the outline of a site 
>that I'd appreciate feedback on:
>
>http://www.robmay.me.uk/win32gui/website/

Nice, good job:)

I tried with Opera and it looks fine.

Suggestions, it would be nice if there was a screenshots link under Site 
navigation (perhaps users could submit screenshots of their applications 
built using Win32-GUI). Perhaps it would be nice if the examples also had 
their own link - with each example presented as a separate page (with 
HTMLerizied code, and perhaps a screenshot). I only mention these items as 
this is what I look for when evaluating a new tool:)

Cheers,

jez.

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] Web Presence

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

All,

I've spent the last week or so struggling to come to terms with CSS and 
its non-standard implementations accros browsers.  I have the outline of 
a site that I'd appreciate feedback on:

http://www.robmay.me.uk/win32gui/website/

Particularly I'd like to know:
(1) Whether it lays out nicely in your browser, or whether it screws up.

(2) What your browser user agent is.  You can point your browser at:
http://www.robmay.me.uk/win32gui/website/ua.shtml to find out if you 
don't know (I'd like the whole line).  It should fall back from a 
'boxed' layout to something much simpler if your browser is V4 or 
earlier (are there any of those left?)

I've run it through FF1.06, IE6, IE5.5, IE5.0 NN4.6:
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98; T312461; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; T312461; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; T312461; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 
Firefox/1.0.6
Mozilla/4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win98; I)

(3) Your comments on the style/colors other artistic impressions.
- I still have some content to write, and the list of links on the front 
page will be layed out differently

(4) Your Technical comments
- I am aware that there is a bit of Javascript - that will be removed 
(it simply adds the IE version to the titlebar so I can keep track of 
which window is which).
- The news section will be fed automatically from the Sourceforge RSS feed.

(5) Anything that you'd like to see in the future.

Assuming there's no major issues, then I plan to put something close to 
this up at http://perl-win32-gui.sourceforge.net/ and link the 'home' 
link from the project page to it.

Regards,
Rob.

RE: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] Closing tracker items

[Jeremy W. <jez...@ho...>]

>I would like feedback on whether the following RFE can also be closed:
>1150180 New gridlayout version
>1145035 New gridlayout version.

Yes they can be closed.

Cheers,

jez.

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] Closing tracker items

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

Following the new release I have closed the following tracker items:

Bugs - resolution 'fixed':
1202695 Documentation is missing from PPM's
1164783 EnumMyWindows() does not work
1164780 Label does not show bitmap on creation
1153899 Crash on exit with two RichEdits
1092732 Slider no longer supports setting position
1064828 RichEdit

Bugs - resolution 'Out of date'
972038 Version conflict?

RFE - closed
876334 Tool bar control missing methods/functionality
882986 Rebar Control Missing functionality/Bugs


I would like feedback on whether the following RFE can also be closed:
1150180 New gridlayout version
1145035 New gridlayout version.


Regards,
Rob.

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] Re: Test and v1.02 release

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

Reini Urban wrote:

> Robert May schrieb:
>
>> OK, I've not had a chance to keep up with your tests this week, and 
>> trying to catch up now find myself mightily confused.   Some of the 
>> patches seem to be against the source that I called 1.01_03, some 
>> seem to be incremental (probably on the previous set of patches?).  
>> To add to my confusion, my local source has changes beyond the 
>> 1.01_03 source that you have.
>
>
> All of them are against 1.01_03, not incremental. To make it easier.

My apologies.   I couldn't get them to apply to my source without 
errors, and at a quick scan it didn't look like the later patches 
contained all the changes from the earlier ones.

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] Announcements for Win32::GUI v1.02

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

FYI, I have posted announcements for the new release to:

per...@li... (this list!)
per...@li...
as a perl-win32-gui news item at SourceForge

per...@li...

comp.lang.perl.announce usenet group

Regards,
Rob.

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] ANNOUNCE: Win32::GUI v1.02

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

I am please to announce that v1.02 of Win32::GUI is available for 
download from SourceForge.

Win32::GUI is a Perl extension allowing creation of native Win32 GUI 
applications.

Project summary and download:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/perl-win32-gui/
Release notes:
http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=341357

My thanks to everyone who has been involved in preparing this release.

Regards,
Rob.

Re: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] Re: v1.02 release

[Johan L. <jo...@Da...>]

At 13:57 2005-07-10, Robert May wrote:
>I just did a final quick tidy-up and tagged the HEAD revisions as 
>'Win32-GUI-1_02'.
>
>I hope we'll have a release on SourceForge very soon.

Great news, and great work everyone!


/J

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] Re: v1.02 release

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

All,

I just did a final quick tidy-up and tagged the HEAD revisions as 
'Win32-GUI-1_02'.

I hope we'll have a release on SourceForge very soon.

Regards,
Rob.

Robert May wrote:

> Reini,
>
> OK, I've not had a chance to keep up with your tests this week, and 
> trying to catch up now find myself mightily confused.   Some of the 
> patches seem to be against the source that I called 1.01_03, some seem 
> to be incremental (probably on the previous set of patches?).  To add 
> to my confusion, my local source has changes beyond the 1.01_03 source 
> that you have.
>
> As far as I did get I was failing one test, but I can't tell if that's 
> because I didn't apply your patches correctly.  However, what you are 
> doing is great, and I want to encourage you to continue, but I am not 
> going to get the time in the next couple of weeks  to do much more 
> than just keep up with the mail on this list.
>
> I do want to get a V1.02 release out though.  Here's what I propose:
>
> (1) I've put a copy of the current CVS HEAD up at 
> http://www.robmay.me.uk/win32gui/. It's identified as 1.01_04.  Reini, 
> I'd very much appreciate it if you can confirm whether this code still 
> compiles for you under both your Cygwin and MSVC environments.   The 
> other MSVC6 users on the list appear to have no issues.
>
> (2) Everyone, a quick show of hands as to who would be happy for the 
> current CVS HEAD to be used for the 1.02 release.  Assuming we have no 
> negative feedback by the end of the week (when I am next in front of 
> my computer), then I will update the version to 1.02, tag the current 
> HEAD as release 1.02.
>
> (3) Glenn L (I hope I got the right Glenn) - you offered to do the 
> build under MSVC6 for both Perl 5.6 and 5.8.  Are you still happy to 
> do this?  If you are, then I will mail you once I have done (2).  If 
> you can then let me have the PPMs, Aldo has given me access to the 
> sourceforge file release system and I'll see if I can drive it and get 
> the files up for everyone to use.  Suggestions as to where 
> announcements should be made welcome - is there a 'usual' set of 
> places used by Aldo, Laurent et al.?
>
> (4) Once I have a bit more time, I'll work with Reini to get the test 
> suite updated.  I'm sure that doing this will turn up more issues than 
> those already found by Reini, and that should drive a following release.
>
> Reini, I hope that leaving your tests out of this release is OK with 
> you, but I simply don't have time to deal with it now, and I had set 
> expectations of a release this week..  (If anyone else has time, and 
> we can get some confidence that the tests pass in the various 
> different environments by the end of the week, then I'd be happy to 
> take them.)  I do agree with Jez, that going forward, if you would 
> like to contribute the easiest way for everyone would be for you to 
> mail Aldo and get your own CVS access.  At a minimum I think that you 
> should get yourself anonymous CVS access so that you can keep a local 
> source tree synchronised with the changes others are making - I can 
> provide help with this if you need it.
>
> Regards,
> Rob.
>
>
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Re: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] Re: 1.01_04 patch

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Reini Urban sagte:
>> I've re-added my GUI.pm patched and added the tests.
>> For me all tests work ok on cygwin and MSVC6, perl-5.8.6
>> With proper ChangeLog this time
>
> Oops, I made a small mistake with two lines in GUI.pm,
> needed for perl < 5.6
> Attached is the patch against yesterdays patch.

Also verified ok with latest perl-5.8.7 for cygwin.
All tests pass, now even without the global destructor warning as before.

So tested with perl-5.8.7 and 5.8.6 with cygwin, and
ActivePerl-5.8.6.811 with MSVC6

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] Re: 1.01_04 patch

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

> I've re-added my GUI.pm patched and added the tests.
> For me all tests work ok on cygwin and MSVC6, perl-5.8.6
> With proper ChangeLog this time

Oops, I made a small mistake with two lines in GUI.pm,
needed for perl < 5.6
Attached is the patch against yesterdays patch.

-- 
Reini Urban
http://phpwiki.org/   http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] 1.01_04 patch

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

I've re-added my GUI.pm patched and added the tests.
For me all tests work ok on cygwin and MSVC6, perl-5.8.6
With proper ChangeLog this time

Robert, which test exactly fails for you?

> Robert May schrieb:
>> OK, I've not had a chance to keep up with your tests this week, and
>> trying to catch up now find myself mightily confused.   Some of the
>> patches seem to be against the source that I called 1.01_03, some seem
>>  to be incremental (probably on the previous set of patches?).  To add
>> to  my confusion, my local source has changes beyond the 1.01_03
>> source that  you have.
>
> All of them are against 1.01_03, not incremental. To make it easier.
>
>> As far as I did get I was failing one test, but I can't tell if that's
>>  because I didn't apply your patches correctly.  However, what you are
>>  doing is great, and I want to encourage you to continue, but I am not
>>  going to get the time in the next couple of weeks  to do much more
>> than  just keep up with the mail on this list.
>>
>> I do want to get a V1.02 release out though.  Here's what I propose:
> ...
>> (4) Once I have a bit more time, I'll work with Reini to get the test
>> suite updated.  I'm sure that doing this will turn up more issues than
>>  those already found by Reini, and that should drive a following
>> release.
>>
>> Reini, I hope that leaving your tests out of this release is OK with
>> you, but I simply don't have time to deal with it now, and I had set
>> expectations of a release this week..  (If anyone else has time, and
>> we  can get some confidence that the tests pass in the various
>> different  environments by the end of the week, then I'd be happy to
>> take them.)  I  do agree with Jez, that going forward, if you would
>> like to contribute  the easiest way for everyone would be for you to
>> mail Aldo and get your  own CVS access.
>> At a minimum I think that you should get yourself
>> anonymous CVS access so that you can keep a local source tree
>> synchronised with the changes others are making - I can provide help
>> with this if you need it.
>
> Thanks, no help needed :)
> I'm administrator of phpwiki at sf.net and maintainer of several
> cygwin projects. If you have questions maybe I can help out :)
>
> I'll ask Aldo then. Also for several Win32::API gcc patches needed. I
> took over C::DynaLib recently and want to add gcc support (cygwin +
> mingw) for Win32::API. C::DynaLib callbacks at least works fine for
> Win32, in contrary to Win32::API.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://phpwiki.org/   http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] Re: Test and v1.02 release [Was: more 1.1.03 patches]

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Robert May schrieb:
> OK, I've not had a chance to keep up with your tests this week, and 
> trying to catch up now find myself mightily confused.   Some of the 
> patches seem to be against the source that I called 1.01_03, some seem 
> to be incremental (probably on the previous set of patches?).  To add to 
> my confusion, my local source has changes beyond the 1.01_03 source that 
> you have.

All of them are against 1.01_03, not incremental. To make it easier.

> As far as I did get I was failing one test, but I can't tell if that's 
> because I didn't apply your patches correctly.  However, what you are 
> doing is great, and I want to encourage you to continue, but I am not 
> going to get the time in the next couple of weeks  to do much more than 
> just keep up with the mail on this list.
> 
> I do want to get a V1.02 release out though.  Here's what I propose:
...
> (4) Once I have a bit more time, I'll work with Reini to get the test 
> suite updated.  I'm sure that doing this will turn up more issues than 
> those already found by Reini, and that should drive a following release.
> 
> Reini, I hope that leaving your tests out of this release is OK with 
> you, but I simply don't have time to deal with it now, and I had set 
> expectations of a release this week..  (If anyone else has time, and we 
> can get some confidence that the tests pass in the various different 
> environments by the end of the week, then I'd be happy to take them.)  I 
> do agree with Jez, that going forward, if you would like to contribute 
> the easiest way for everyone would be for you to mail Aldo and get your 
> own CVS access. 
> At a minimum I think that you should get yourself 
> anonymous CVS access so that you can keep a local source tree 
> synchronised with the changes others are making - I can provide help 
> with this if you need it.

Thanks, no help needed :)
I'm administrator of phpwiki at sf.net and maintainer of several
cygwin projects. If you have questions maybe I can help out :)

I'll ask Aldo then. Also for several Win32::API gcc patches needed.
I took over C::DynaLib recently and want to add gcc support (cygwin + 
mingw) for Win32::API. C::DynaLib callbacks at least works fine for 
Win32, in contrary to Win32::API.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/
http://phpwiki.org/

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] Test and v1.02 release [Was: more 1.1.03 patches]

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

Reini,

OK, I've not had a chance to keep up with your tests this week, and 
trying to catch up now find myself mightily confused.   Some of the 
patches seem to be against the source that I called 1.01_03, some seem 
to be incremental (probably on the previous set of patches?).  To add to 
my confusion, my local source has changes beyond the 1.01_03 source that 
you have.

As far as I did get I was failing one test, but I can't tell if that's 
because I didn't apply your patches correctly.  However, what you are 
doing is great, and I want to encourage you to continue, but I am not 
going to get the time in the next couple of weeks  to do much more than 
just keep up with the mail on this list.

I do want to get a V1.02 release out though.  Here's what I propose:

(1) I've put a copy of the current CVS HEAD up at 
http://www.robmay.me.uk/win32gui/. It's identified as 1.01_04.  Reini, 
I'd very much appreciate it if you can confirm whether this code still 
compiles for you under both your Cygwin and MSVC environments.   The 
other MSVC6 users on the list appear to have no issues.

(2) Everyone, a quick show of hands as to who would be happy for the 
current CVS HEAD to be used for the 1.02 release.  Assuming we have no 
negative feedback by the end of the week (when I am next in front of my 
computer), then I will update the version to 1.02, tag the current HEAD 
as release 1.02.

(3) Glenn L (I hope I got the right Glenn) - you offered to do the build 
under MSVC6 for both Perl 5.6 and 5.8.  Are you still happy to do this?  
If you are, then I will mail you once I have done (2).  If you can then 
let me have the PPMs, Aldo has given me access to the sourceforge file 
release system and I'll see if I can drive it and get the files up for 
everyone to use.  Suggestions as to where announcements should be made 
welcome - is there a 'usual' set of places used by Aldo, Laurent et al.?

(4) Once I have a bit more time, I'll work with Reini to get the test 
suite updated.  I'm sure that doing this will turn up more issues than 
those already found by Reini, and that should drive a following release.

Reini, I hope that leaving your tests out of this release is OK with 
you, but I simply don't have time to deal with it now, and I had set 
expectations of a release this week..  (If anyone else has time, and we 
can get some confidence that the tests pass in the various different 
environments by the end of the week, then I'd be happy to take them.)  I 
do agree with Jez, that going forward, if you would like to contribute 
the easiest way for everyone would be for you to mail Aldo and get your 
own CVS access.  At a minimum I think that you should get yourself 
anonymous CVS access so that you can keep a local source tree 
synchronised with the changes others are making - I can provide help 
with this if you need it.

Regards,
Rob.

Re: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] more 1.1.03 patches

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

One more Timer test enhancement: test NEM Timers

I'm not sure if destroying the parent should kill the children also,
but I would like to fix Win32::GUI to have this "feature", esp.
for Timers which are costly. Petzold talks about max 16 timers
per system at once.

But not for 1.02.
I would say 1.02 is ready. The missing testcases and "features" can
be added later.

Reini Urban sagte:
> Attached are todays patches:
>
> fix and enhance docs for Timer.
> fix Kill() do destroy the Timer, not as described before.
> change default interval to 10 [ms] since 1 is invalid and set to 10 on
> most NT's.
> allow circular reference to parent for perl > 5.6 (Timer, NotifyIcon).
> do Kill on Interval(0) as described in Tutorial/Part4.

Re: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] more 1.1.03 patches

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Jeremy White sagte:
> I'm sure if you ask Aldo for permissions to commit changes, he'll add y=
ou
> (or, indeed anyone else).

Attached are todays patches:

fix and enhance docs for Timer.
fix Kill() do destroy the Timer, not as described before.
change default interval to 10 [ms] since 1 is invalid and set to 10 on
most NT's.
allow circular reference to parent for perl > 5.6 (Timer, NotifyIcon).
do Kill on Interval(0) as described in Tutorial/Part4.

Note that the default AUTOLOAD method should be enhanced to catch any
undef $control and call DESTROY, and help in circular refs to the parent.
See
http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2002/08/07/proxyobject.html

Timers will print something like
t/05_Menu................ok 3/3 (in cleanup) Can't call method "FETCH" on
an undefined value at ../Win32/GUI.pm line 2700 during global destruction=
.
because the DESTROY method is not called. This is mainly beautification.

Re: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] more 1.1.03 patches

[Jeremy W. <jez...@ho...>]

Hi,

I'm sure if you ask Aldo for permissions to commit changes, he'll add you 
(or, indeed anyone else).

Cheers (and good work BTW).

jez.

Re: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] more 1.1.03 patches

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

I've added timers to the testcases so that the Dialog loop actually runs
and the windows gets displayed for one second until the timer kills the
window.
This is a poor-mans gui test, not the required SendMessage tests yet.

Note that the docs for Timer say that Timer->Kill does not destroyl
the timer and it can be re-enabled with ->Interval().
This is not true as my tests show.
Killed timers can be re-enabled by changing the Interval > 0.
Or this there another trick?

> I've added more tests and added a Timer reflection -window to ensure
> that the parent window -timers and -name gets properly deleted on
> KillTimer().
>
> Same should be done for Cursor and Icon, but maybe the window
> can be easily reconstructed from the handle?
>
> I've also removed most of the ending whitespace.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://phpwiki.org/   http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] more 1.1.03 patches

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

I've added more tests and added a Timer reflection -window to ensure
that the parent window -timers and -name gets properly deleted on
KillTimer().

Same should be done for Cursor and Icon, but maybe the window
can be easily reconstructed from the handle?

I've also removed most of the ending whitespace.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://phpwiki.org/   http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] What is the -container option for?

[Jeremy W. <jez...@ho...>]

Hi,

Was looking at something else and came across the -container option. What is 
it for? The option has no documentation, but does seem to do "something". It 
has a message loop (ContainerMsgLoop in GUI_MessageLoops), and a constant 
(PERLWIN32GUI_CONTAINER) which is checked/used in several places.

If anyone can provide an explanation - and perhaps an example:) I'll update 
the docs.

Cheers,

jez.

Re: [win32gui] Re: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] Warnings from Win32::GUI

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

Glenn Linderman wrote:

> On approximately 7/2/2005 4:56 PM, came the following characters from 
> the keyboard of Robert May:
>
>> In several places in Win32::GUI XS code there are warnings printed.
>>
>> When this happens, there is (as far as I have checked) always test 
>> 'if (PL_dowarn)' around the warning.  Now, I'm sure there is some 
>> Perl history here, as the documentation (perlintern) clearly states 
>> that PL_dowarn is the XS programmer's equivalent of $^W.  It is 
>> not!   PL_dowarn is a bitmask that conveys a whole load of global 
>> warning state (See perl's warnings.h for more details).  The upshot 
>> of this is that the *only* way to silence such messages from 
>> Win32::GUI is to ensure that you start perl with no warning command 
>> line switches (none of -w, -W or -X) and to not have a 'use warnings' 
>> line anywhere in your code.  {Yes, currently -X on the command line 
>> results in Win32::GUI splitting out warnings :-)  (you can also use a 
>> $SIG{__WARN__} hook, but you need to know the characteristics of the 
>> messages you want to silence to do this - see my recent post to the 
>> users list).
>>
>> This is obviously an undesirable situation.
>>
>> Using (PL_dowarn & G_WARN_ON) instead is the direct equivalent of 
>> checking $^W.   The downside of this is that 'use warnings' does not 
>> set $^W, and so making this change will result in most current code 
>> silencing these warnings.  To turn them on you need to use -w, -W 
>> (command line) or $^W=1 (in your code).   But at least we'd have a 
>> way to control whether such messages are emitted.
>>
>> I see 4 possible ways forward:
>>
>> (1) Leave it as it is, and wait for Perl 5.9 which will (from what I 
>> read) extend the 'warnings::warnif' mechanism to XSUBS.
>>
>> (2) Change to checking against (PL_dowarn & G_WARN_ON), with the side 
>> effects mentioned above, and highlighting the change in release 
>> notes/readme.
>>
>> (3) Introduce a package global (Win32::GUI::WARNINGS?) that the user 
>> can set to control warnings, defaulting to on (matching the current 
>> behaviour)
>>
>> (4) Review the warnings that we have, and decide if they are needed, 
>> or if there are other ways to behave. (for example the irritating 
>> warnings about -style being deprecated could perhaps be removed, as I 
>> think it is a useful option).  This route may be orthogonal to the 
>> other 3, as we may want to do this anyway, and if we have any 
>> warnings left, then we will still need to pick one of the other 3 
>> options.
>>
>> My vote is for (2).   Comments?
>
>
> Not clear that I understand the various Perl warning mechanisms you 
> describe to comment effectively.

I'm not surprised.  They are complex, and not well documented.  It's 
taken we most of the week to get my current (very poor) understanding of 
how it all works.  I'm entering a busy spell at work, so I'm not sure 
exactly when, but I'll try to find time to write up my understanding a 
bit better at a later date.

Here are a couple of threads that seem to be the information 'from the 
horses mouths', so to speak.  They're pretty impenetrable, and I put the 
link here more so that I can find them later, than because I think they 
are a good read.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/perl.perl5.porters/browse_thread/thread/5638f7d32139d3a4/368fb93c71813e02?q=lexical+warnings+XSUB&hl=en#368fb93c71813e02
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/perl.perl5.porters/browse_thread/thread/d26aec8d5376d9ca/e2713a92344a5df9?q=lexical+warnings+XSUB&rnum=5&hl=en#e2713a92344a5df9

>
> I do "use warnings" and "-w" in most of my code, and all is well for 
> me, and I get lots of diagnostics...  And I haven't had any major 
> problems coding around the existing warnings, such that my code 
> doesn't cause warnings to occur.  So (1) seems acceptable to me.
>
> I don't understand the side effects of (2).

There would be no change for you.   The change would be for anyone who 
doesn't use '-w' - Win32::GUI's warnings would stop appearing, as there 
is no way to reliably check from XS what the 'use warnings' settings in 
the caller's scope are set to.

>
> (3) seems too specific to this module.

Indeed.  But not having a way to turn off warnings in production code is 
an issue, isn't it?

>
> (4) A review of warnings is certainly not a bad thing... but proposed 
> changes should be entertained with caution.  -style is "easy" but I 
> think the theory under which it was deprecated is that it can be too 
> easily used to turn off things that default to on, that you might not 
> know about.  This is because (I think) of the way that Microsoft 
> introduces more options, some of which are on.  So adding and removing 
> specific options seems better, according to that theory.

Right, I understand why -style is dangerous.  But without it you have to 
have knowledge of what styles Win32::GUI uses by default so that you can 
pop the ones you don't want, and add the ones that you do want.  In the 
case where you know exactly what styles you want it is equally dangerous 
to use pop and push in a module, as any changes to the default styles 
used by Win32::GUI may break your code.   But I'm wandering off topic 
with this specific example.

Regards,
Rob.

[perl-win32-gui-hackers] Warnings from Win32::GUI

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

In several places in Win32::GUI XS code there are warnings printed.

When this happens, there is (as far as I have checked) always test 'if 
(PL_dowarn)' around the warning.  Now, I'm sure there is some Perl 
history here, as the documentation (perlintern) clearly states that 
PL_dowarn is the XS programmer's equivalent of $^W.  It is not!   
PL_dowarn is a bitmask that conveys a whole load of global warning state 
(See perl's warnings.h for more details).  The upshot of this is that 
the *only* way to silence such messages from Win32::GUI is to ensure 
that you start perl with no warning command line switches (none of -w, 
-W or -X) and to not have a 'use warnings' line anywhere in your code.  
{Yes, currently -X on the command line results in Win32::GUI splitting 
out warnings :-)  (you can also use a $SIG{__WARN__} hook, but you need 
to know the characteristics of the messages you want to silence to do 
this - see my recent post to the users list).

This is obviously an undesirable situation.

Using (PL_dowarn & G_WARN_ON) instead is the direct equivalent of 
checking $^W.   The downside of this is that 'use warnings' does not set 
$^W, and so making this change will result in most current code 
silencing these warnings.  To turn them on you need to use -w, -W 
(command line) or $^W=1 (in your code).   But at least we'd have a way 
to control whether such messages are emitted.

I see 4 possible ways forward:

(1) Leave it as it is, and wait for Perl 5.9 which will (from what I 
read) extend the 'warnings::warnif' mechanism to XSUBS.

(2) Change to checking against (PL_dowarn & G_WARN_ON), with the side 
effects mentioned above, and highlighting the change in release 
notes/readme.

(3) Introduce a package global (Win32::GUI::WARNINGS?) that the user can 
set to control warnings, defaulting to on (matching the current behaviour)

(4) Review the warnings that we have, and decide if they are needed, or 
if there are other ways to behave. (for example the irritating warnings 
about -style being deprecated could perhaps be removed, as I think it is 
a useful option).  This route may be orthogonal to the other 3, as we 
may want to do this anyway, and if we have any warnings left, then we 
will still need to pick one of the other 3 options.

My vote is for (2).   Comments?

Regards,
Rob.

Further background:

Re: [win32gui] Re: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] Re: Roadmap to a v1.02 release

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

Glenn Linderman wrote:

> On approximately 7/1/2005 4:51 PM, came the following characters from 
> the keyboard of Robert May:
>
>> I just checked in an updated GUI.h (along with backing out a few 
>> other changes that Reini and I made in the last few days that turned 
>> out to be unnecessary).  I hope this will let it build for those of 
>> you who it built for previously, and also that it still works for Reini.
>>
>> I can confirm that it compiles and 'tests' ok  in the 5 environments 
>> that I have available.
>
> And it compiles for me.  Testing commencing shortly.

Phew!  I wasn't 100% convinced by my changes.  Just remains to see if it 
still builds for Reini.

Thanks for the feedback Glenn.

R.

Re: [win32gui] Re: [perl-win32-gui-hackers] Re: Roadmap to a v1.02 release

[Robert M. <rm...@po...>]

Robert May wrote:

> Glenn Linderman wrote:
>
>> [errors snipped]
>> I think that is an improvement, in the sense that the compilation 
>> proceeded further than before. 
>
> I'm working on it.  I think I understand all the changes that Reini 
> gave me as parts of the cygwi and his MSVC6 patches.  I'm reverting 
> GUI.h to something much closer to what went out with the V1.0 release.
>
> The problems all stem from the 'extern "C"' declarations around the 
> perl includes - Reini changed the conditions under which they 
> were/were not defined, resulting in them being added for builds usin 
> -DPERL_IMPLICIT_CONTEXT, when they were not before;  he then added 
> math.h outside this block, so that when math.h was included again by 
> perl.h in had already been seen, and was not parsed in "C" context.
>
> I think I've got it going - give me another 15 minutes and I'll check 
> in an updated version.

I just checked in an updated GUI.h (along with backing out a few other 
changes that Reini and I made in the last few days that turned out to be 
unnecessary).  I hope this will let it build for those of you who it 
built for previously, and also that it still works for Reini.

I can confirm that it compiles and 'tests' ok  in the 5 environments 
that I have available.

Rob.