perfparse-devel-int — Developers Internal high traffic discussion PP development. Contributers only.

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Support forum on sf.net

[Yves <yme...@pe...>]

>> People usually subscribe or say they did not subscribe and would like =
to be in CC for
>> the answer.
>
> KISS:  Give them a single page with the archives and a posting form :)
>
> This is not possible with our mailing list.

Why ?

I suggest that users who have not subscribed can post. And wait for moder=
ation. That
way, you can control that no spams (porn, money...) is sent on the list.
And a posting form would just be an interface for the mailing-list if you=
 really want an
html portal to the mailing-list.

I thought to the law, and Flo to porn and such messages that anonymous ca=
n post. If you
allow anonymous posting, wherever it is (mailing-list or forum or mail fo=
rm), you have
to control !

btw, in France, forums that are hosted in France that allow anonymous pos=
ters are
illegal :)
This is a recent law.
But it is not an argument because wiki.perfparse.org is not hosted in Fra=
nce :)


>> You can (additionnaly) edit the web page where you explain where to su=
bscribe and add
>> that users should read on wiki.perfparse.org before asking for somethi=
ng.
>
> This would be this page:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D43072
>
> Unfortunately I don't have the option to edit this.  This is a dead-end
> URL.

I was meaning that you can make your own page with a similar content.
Put that page on the wiki and you have all the information about support =
and the FAQ in
the same place. Isn't that what you want ? :)

Put "how to get support" in evidence on the wiki, write that you can get =
support thanks
to the FAQ and then to the mailing-list, and you are a winner :)


>>>3 Email alerts possible for the rest of us.  (Check, is this possible?=
)
>>
>> I prefer a form that send the question directly to the mailing list an=
d returns to the
>> user that some answers may be found on the mail archives. I prefer it =
this way in
>> order
>> to centralize everything in the mail archives.
>
> Agreed, would be great.  My problem with this is only that it takes the=
m
> away from the nice wiki site where there is no link back home.

Just make a link :)



> I want to give the novice user another mechanism which is fast,
> in the PP style, and keeps them close to the FAQ and other documentatio=
n.

This is what we have to think about :)

> I want to turn a disconnected group of servers sites and mailing lists
> into a consistent PP support tool...

> I would like to see it as just two:
>
> www.perfparse.org <----> wiki.perfparse.org
>     |                           |
>     |                           |
>     v                           V
> Static front site.        Dynamic documents, FAQ and Forum.

Yes. But not the forum.
Forums work well when there is a community around the forum.
Same for mailing-lists.
With the mailing-list, we are now a little community, including Tim Wuyts=
 who sometimes
answers before us, and somebody else that I lost the name. With us answer=
ing a lot, it
makes support correct on the mailing-list.
On the forum, it would need the same effort of us before you make a commu=
nity. I can
spend time on perfparse development, answering the mails, but the forum i=
s too much for
me. And I think it's probably also too much for you and others.
The forum would be a good idea if there was too many mails on the mailing=
-list. But the
traffic is correct there :)



Yves
--=20
- Homepage    - http://ymettier.free.fr - http://www.logicacmg.com -
- GPG key     - http://ymettier.free.fr/gpg.txt                    -
- Maitretarot - http://www.nongnu.org/maitretarot/                 -
- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Support forum on sf.net

[Ben C. <BCl...@pe...>]

Yves wrote:
>>The one problem I can see is posting a question to the news groups
>>without subscription.  Anonymous email may not work if the user does not
>>know where the answer will be seen.  Although currently possible.
> 
> 
> People usually subscribe or say they did not subscribe and would like to be in CC for
> the answer.

KISS:  Give them a single page with the archives and a posting form :)

This is not possible with our mailing list.

No need to subscribe/unsubscibe.  No need to ask users to include a 
different reply email address.



> You can (additionnaly) edit the web page where you explain where to subscribe and add
> that users should read on wiki.perfparse.org before asking for something.

This would be this page:

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=43072

Unfortunately I don't have the option to edit this.  This is a dead-end 
URL.


> There is always a way to post an anonymous question :)
> Besides this, in some countries, you (as the maintainer) would be responsible for the
> contents of anonymous posts.
> Flo, where is wiki.perfparse.org hosted ? Any idea about what the law says ?

Agreed:- Anonymous posting is a nice option where appropriate.  I don't 
mind, if we really have to, forcing people to subscribe.  But maybe not 
yet if possible.



>>3 Email alerts possible for the rest of us.  (Check, is this possible?)
> 
> I prefer a form that send the question directly to the mailing list and returns to the
> user that some answers may be found on the mail archives. I prefer it this way in order
> to centralize everything in the mail archives.

Agreed, would be great.  My problem with this is only that it takes them 
away from the nice wiki site where there is no link back home.


>>4 Keeps posting/viewing/searching on the same server.
> 
> mail archives :)

No posting ability from http :)



>>5 Ensure entire PP project in same look/feel, when style sheets agreed.
> 
> You cannot do it because of the mail archives :)

There are limits.  But it's no argument not to use wiki because the mail 
list archive is on a different server.  The mail archive still has a 
place.  I want to give the novice user another mechanism which is fast, 
in the PP style, and keeps them close to the FAQ and other documentation.

I want to turn a disconnected group of servers sites and mailing lists 
into a consistent PP support tool...



> This should be done even if you choose to use the forums.

I will add it as a footer on the mailing lists, if I can.  This will help.



> This is my best argument to reduce the number of communication channels.
> 1/ www.perfparse.org
> 2/ wiki.perfparse.org
> 3/ mail archive
> 4/ mailing-lists
> 
> Adding a forum would be a 5th channel even if hosted on wiki.perfparse.org.



I would like to see it as just two:

www.perfparse.org <----> wiki.perfparse.org
    |                           |
    |                           |
    v                           V
Static front site.        Dynamic documents, FAQ and Forum.

With the mailing lists as an extra for 'advanced' users if they wish.



>>2 It requires a http server which is not part of the archive http
>>server, which is closed to us.  So you cannot link from the archive back
>>to the question page.  So users viewing the archive will not know of
>>this nice page we provide to add to the archive :)
> 
> 
> Maybe that's too complex ? Should we do things simpler and stupid ?

Yes :)  A html forum on wiki :)

But before we argue our selves into a hole, maybe let others join the 
argument....


Ben

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Support forum on sf.net

[Flo G. <fl...@bi...>]

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Yves wrote:

>> The one problem I can see is posting a question to the news groups
>> without subscription.  Anonymous email may not work if the user does not
>> know where the answer will be seen.  Although currently possible.
>
> People usually subscribe or say they did not subscribe and would like to 
> be in CC for the answer.
>
>> I would like to consider a user forum in wiki a little further, as a
>> second support mechanism.  Let me list (in no order) some reasons:
>>
>> 1 Keeps users close to FAQ and other helpful information.  They may see
>> the answer before the 'dump post' we all hate making :)
>
> You can (additionnaly) edit the web page where you explain where to 
> subscribe and add that users should read on wiki.perfparse.org before 
> asking for something.
>
>> 2 Easy anonymous posting of a question.
>
> There is always a way to post an anonymous question :) Besides this, in 
> some countries, you (as the maintainer) would be responsible for the 
> contents of anonymous posts. Flo, where is wiki.perfparse.org hosted ? 
> Any idea about what the law says ?

It's in germany, and i have to be aware of what people write there. But 
every user has to register and needs a valid email for that. so chances 
are that we don't get to much rubbish there. We had bad experiences with 
totally anonymous questions. to many links to porn pages were posted.

>
>> 3 Email alerts possible for the rest of us.  (Check, is this possible?)
>
> I prefer a form that send the question directly to the mailing list and 
> returns to the user that some answers may be found on the mail archives. 
> I prefer it this way in order to centralize everything in the mail 
> archives.
>
>> 4 Keeps posting/viewing/searching on the same server.
>
> mail archives :)
>
>> 5 Ensure entire PP project in same look/feel, when style sheets agreed.
>
> You cannot do it because of the mail archives :)
>
>> > This is something we have to decide : how do we provide support ?
>> > Because our support is free, we have to find a way not to spend too
>> much time on it.
>>
>> See point (1) and (4).  The user in search of an answer can access lots
>> of information in same location.  Then they can post an anonymous
>> question.
>
> We can do this another way : everywhere the mailing-list appears, 
> prepend "Read the FAQ on wiki.perfparse.org before" :)
>
> This should be done even if you choose to use the forums.
>
>> At the moment we are too disconnected.  The information may be on one of
>> three web sites, or in an email archive.  This may lead to replication
>> of information and confusion by users.
>
> This is my best argument to reduce the number of communication channels.
> 1/ www.perfparse.org
> 2/ wiki.perfparse.org
> 3/ mail archive
> 4/ mailing-lists
>
> Adding a forum would be a 5th channel even if hosted on wiki.perfparse.org.
>
>>
>> > We have the mailing-list and the html archives. If you insist on
>> html, the only missing
>> > part is a form to send a mail to the mailing-list and say that the
>> answer will probably
>> > be in the archives :)
>>
>> Totally agree.  One solution is a CGI program to accept a question, post
>> it to our groups and send them to the archive.  But I can see two
>> problems with this:
>>
>> 1 There is no mechanism to let them know of an answer.
>
> This is the cost of anonymous posting on somewhere nobody can be 
> connected : with mails, the mail comes to you. With forums, you go to 
> the forum but nothing comes to you.
>
>> 2 It requires a http server which is not part of the archive http
>> server, which is closed to us.  So you cannot link from the archive back
>> to the question page.  So users viewing the archive will not know of
>> this nice page we provide to add to the archive :)
>
> Maybe that's too complex ? Should we do things simpler and stupid ?
>
> Yves


Tikiwiki has a forum build in (but i don't know how good it is) and this 
forum can be feed by a mailinglist (sourceforge mailinglist). But as you 
said: keep it simple. If a user wants support, he has to do something: 
register at sourceforge, wiki or whatever. If not, he has to read the 
source :-)

Yes. don't open to many channels.

Flo

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Support forum on sf.net

[Yves <yme...@pe...>]

> The one problem I can see is posting a question to the news groups
> without subscription.  Anonymous email may not work if the user does no=
t
> know where the answer will be seen.  Although currently possible.

People usually subscribe or say they did not subscribe and would like to =
be in CC for
the answer.

> I would like to consider a user forum in wiki a little further, as a
> second support mechanism.  Let me list (in no order) some reasons:
>
> 1 Keeps users close to FAQ and other helpful information.  They may see
> the answer before the 'dump post' we all hate making :)

You can (additionnaly) edit the web page where you explain where to subsc=
ribe and add
that users should read on wiki.perfparse.org before asking for something.

> 2 Easy anonymous posting of a question.

There is always a way to post an anonymous question :)
Besides this, in some countries, you (as the maintainer) would be respons=
ible for the
contents of anonymous posts.
Flo, where is wiki.perfparse.org hosted ? Any idea about what the law say=
s ?

> 3 Email alerts possible for the rest of us.  (Check, is this possible?)

I prefer a form that send the question directly to the mailing list and r=
eturns to the
user that some answers may be found on the mail archives. I prefer it thi=
s way in order
to centralize everything in the mail archives.

> 4 Keeps posting/viewing/searching on the same server.

mail archives :)

> 5 Ensure entire PP project in same look/feel, when style sheets agreed.

You cannot do it because of the mail archives :)

>  > This is something we have to decide : how do we provide support ?
>  > Because our support is free, we have to find a way not to spend too
> much time on it.
>
> See point (1) and (4).  The user in search of an answer can access lots
> of information in same location.  Then they can post an anonymous
> question.

We can do this another way : everywhere the mailing-list appears, prepend=
 "Read the FAQ
on wiki.perfparse.org before" :)

This should be done even if you choose to use the forums.

> At the moment we are too disconnected.  The information may be on one o=
f
> three web sites, or in an email archive.  This may lead to replication
> of information and confusion by users.

This is my best argument to reduce the number of communication channels.
1/ www.perfparse.org
2/ wiki.perfparse.org
3/ mail archive
4/ mailing-lists

Adding a forum would be a 5th channel even if hosted on wiki.perfparse.or=
g.

>
>  > We have the mailing-list and the html archives. If you insist on
> html, the only missing
>  > part is a form to send a mail to the mailing-list and say that the
> answer will probably
>  > be in the archives :)
>
> Totally agree.  One solution is a CGI program to accept a question, pos=
t
> it to our groups and send them to the archive.  But I can see two
> problems with this:
>
> 1 There is no mechanism to let them know of an answer.

This is the cost of anonymous posting on somewhere nobody can be connecte=
d : with mails,
the mail comes to you. With forums, you go to the forum but nothing comes=
 to you.

> 2 It requires a http server which is not part of the archive http
> server, which is closed to us.  So you cannot link from the archive bac=
k
> to the question page.  So users viewing the archive will not know of
> this nice page we provide to add to the archive :)

Maybe that's too complex ? Should we do things simpler and stupid ?

Yves
--=20
- Homepage    - http://ymettier.free.fr - http://www.logicacmg.com -
- GPG key     - http://ymettier.free.fr/gpg.txt                    -
- Maitretarot - http://www.nongnu.org/maitretarot/                 -
- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Support forum on sf.net

[Ben C. <BCl...@pe...>]

Yves,

The mailing lists are well established with good searchable html 
archives.  Ok, lets not drop those :)

I will delete the forums on sf.net.  We don't use them and they are slow 
and basic.  As soon as this user is happy.

The one problem I can see is posting a question to the news groups 
without subscription.  Anonymous email may not work if the user does not 
know where the answer will be seen.  Although currently possible.

I would like to consider a user forum in wiki a little further, as a 
second support mechanism.  Let me list (in no order) some reasons:

1 Keeps users close to FAQ and other helpful information.  They may see 
the answer before the 'dump post' we all hate making :)

2 Easy anonymous posting of a question.

3 Email alerts possible for the rest of us.  (Check, is this possible?)

4 Keeps posting/viewing/searching on the same server.

5 Ensure entire PP project in same look/feel, when style sheets agreed.

 > This is something we have to decide : how do we provide support ?
 > Because our support is free, we have to find a way not to spend too 
much time on it.

See point (1) and (4).  The user in search of an answer can access lots 
of information in same location.  Then they can post an anonymous 
question.

At the moment we are too disconnected.  The information may be on one of 
three web sites, or in an email archive.  This may lead to replication 
of information and confusion by users.

 > We have the mailing-list and the html archives. If you insist on 
html, the only missing
 > part is a form to send a mail to the mailing-list and say that the 
answer will probably
 > be in the archives :)

Totally agree.  One solution is a CGI program to accept a question, post 
it to our groups and send them to the archive.  But I can see two 
problems with this:

1 There is no mechanism to let them know of an answer.

2 It requires a http server which is not part of the archive http 
server, which is closed to us.  So you cannot link from the archive back 
to the question page.  So users viewing the archive will not know of 
this nice page we provide to add to the archive :)

Ben





Yves Mettier wrote:

>>Yves,
>>
>>
>>>Could you ask this user to post on perfparse-users ? (don't give an address on a forum
>>>:
>>>avoid spamming when possible)
>>
>>I have.  It seems this option is not one he want to consider.  Maybe he
>>doesn't want to be subscribed to a mailing list.  I personally have 500
>>  email a day from mailing lists.  Sometimes when somebody tells me to
>>join another, I want to tell them where to stick it :)
> 
> 
> I can understand.
> But it is probably worse when you have forums to follow too :)
> 
> 
> 
>>Maybe another reason to consider consolidation of four mailing groups
>>and the two (slow/dull) sf.net forums with our new (fast/cool) wiki system?
> 
> 
> We already have the sf.net archives, don't we ? :)
> Maybe you want to have everything at the same place ? That would mean a smtp->wiki
> system and I'm nearly sure that it is not a very good solution.
> I prefer our wiki for faqs and spec drafts, and our mailing-lists with archives.
> 
> 
>>User problems could be handled by a forum which does not send email,
>>accept in answer to a question.
> 
> 
> This is something we have to decide : how do we provide support ?
> Because our support is free, we have to find a way not to spend too much time on it.
> 
> 
>>If you were a new user/developer, what would be a nice balance of html
>>and smtp forums?
>>
>>Eg, Announce, probably best as smtp.  This group (perfparse-devel-int)
>>may be better as html?
> 
> 
> We have the mailing-list and the html archives. If you insist on html, the only missing
> part is a form to send a mail to the mailing-list and say that the answer will probably
> be in the archives :)
> 
> Yves

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Support forum on sf.net

[Yves M. <yme...@li...>]

> Yves,
>
>> Could you ask this user to post on perfparse-users ? (don't give an ad=
dress on a forum
>> :
>> avoid spamming when possible)
>
> I have.  It seems this option is not one he want to consider.  Maybe he
> doesn't want to be subscribed to a mailing list.  I personally have 500
>   email a day from mailing lists.  Sometimes when somebody tells me to
> join another, I want to tell them where to stick it :)

I can understand.
But it is probably worse when you have forums to follow too :)


> Maybe another reason to consider consolidation of four mailing groups
> and the two (slow/dull) sf.net forums with our new (fast/cool) wiki sys=
tem?

We already have the sf.net archives, don't we ? :)
Maybe you want to have everything at the same place ? That would mean a s=
mtp->wiki
system and I'm nearly sure that it is not a very good solution.
I prefer our wiki for faqs and spec drafts, and our mailing-lists with ar=
chives.

> User problems could be handled by a forum which does not send email,
> accept in answer to a question.

This is something we have to decide : how do we provide support ?
Because our support is free, we have to find a way not to spend too much =
time on it.

> If you were a new user/developer, what would be a nice balance of html
> and smtp forums?
>
> Eg, Announce, probably best as smtp.  This group (perfparse-devel-int)
> may be better as html?

We have the mailing-list and the html archives. If you insist on html, th=
e only missing
part is a form to send a mail to the mailing-list and say that the answer=
 will probably
be in the archives :)

Yves
--=20
- Homepage    - http://ymettier.free.fr - http://www.logicacmg.com -
- GPG key     - http://ymettier.free.fr/gpg.txt                    -
- Maitretarot - http://www.nongnu.org/maitretarot/                 -
- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -

[Perfparse-devel-int] Support forum on sf.net

[Ben C. <BCl...@pe...>]

Yves,

> Could you ask this user to post on perfparse-users ? (don't give an address on a forum :
> avoid spamming when possible)

I have.  It seems this option is not one he want to consider.  Maybe he 
doesn't want to be subscribed to a mailing list.  I personally have 500 
  email a day from mailing lists.  Sometimes when somebody tells me to 
join another, I want to tell them where to stick it :)

(Especially when I can't remember how to unsubscribe to something about 
tunneling I joined seven years ago, but that's my problem! :)

Maybe another reason to consider consolidation of four mailing groups 
and the two (slow/dull) sf.net forums with our new (fast/cool) wiki system?

User problems could be handled by a forum which does not send email, 
accept in answer to a question.

If you were a new user/developer, what would be a nice balance of html 
and smtp forums?

Eg, Announce, probably best as smtp.  This group (perfparse-devel-int) 
may be better as html?


> For the answer : only perfparsed can read from the pipe. If nagios writes to the pipe
> and there is nobody to read from it, this can be a problem. If you want to user
> perfparse-log2* in nagios, consider using stdin as the source (servicelog="-")

I will pass the message back to him.

Ben



> 
> Yves

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Wiki document store.

[Flo G. <fl...@bi...>]

Added the Category to the menu. You can edit the menu in admin (open the 
folder by klicking the small symbol left) -> menus

Flo

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Ben Clewett wrote:

> Hi Flo,
>
> I think I am beginning to get the hang of this.  My first document is there 
> anyway.
>
> The menu on the LHS.  I note from the Admin that there are hard options, like 
> Webmail, Forums etc.  Can you add categories to this menu as well?  For 
> instance Yves 'Specification Drafts' category?
>
> Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> Flo Gleixner wrote:
>
>> 
>> Hi Ben,
>> 
>> Everyone may create new wiki pages. So, just create one. Edit the main 
>> page and add a word in CamelCase or ((Double Braces)). This adds a new 
>> page. Tikiwiki's wiki has some special features to group pages. One is 
>> called "structures" which are numbered pages - like the one i created in 
>> the documentation area. The other one is the category system. You can 
>> create new categories and subcategories and categorize almost every object 
>> in tikiwiki - wiki pages, faq collections, image galleries ... You are 
>> invited to play around.
>> 
>> About naming: TikiWiki is like Postnuke or drupal a portal system/cms with 
>> the wiki as  central point. The nickname of tikiwiki is tiki.
>> So you edit a wiki page in the wiki of tikiwiki.
>> 
>> Flo
>> 
>> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Ben Clewett wrote:
>> 
>>> Flo, Yves,
>>> 
>>> Did we create an area under wiki for specifications and other documents, 
>>> which can be jointly edited by our selves?  I know it's in the plan, not 
>>> sure whether I missed it or not there :)
>>> 
>>> Flo,
>>> 
>>> How do you prefer we call wiki?  tiki, Tiki, tiki/wiki, TikiWiki...
>>> 
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
>>> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
>>> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. 
>>> http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Perfparse-devel-int mailing list
>>> Per...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/perfparse-devel-int
>>> 
>> 
>

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Wiki document store.

[Ben C. <BCl...@pe...>]

Hi Flo,

I think I am beginning to get the hang of this.  My first document is 
there anyway.

The menu on the LHS.  I note from the Admin that there are hard options, 
like Webmail, Forums etc.  Can you add categories to this menu as well? 
  For instance Yves 'Specification Drafts' category?

Regards,

Ben

Flo Gleixner wrote:

> 
> Hi Ben,
> 
> Everyone may create new wiki pages. So, just create one. Edit the main 
> page and add a word in CamelCase or ((Double Braces)). This adds a new 
> page. Tikiwiki's wiki has some special features to group pages. One is 
> called "structures" which are numbered pages - like the one i created in 
> the documentation area. The other one is the category system. You can 
> create new categories and subcategories and categorize almost every 
> object in tikiwiki - wiki pages, faq collections, image galleries ... 
> You are invited to play around.
> 
> About naming: TikiWiki is like Postnuke or drupal a portal system/cms 
> with the wiki as  central point. The nickname of tikiwiki is tiki.
> So you edit a wiki page in the wiki of tikiwiki.
> 
> Flo
> 
> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Ben Clewett wrote:
> 
>> Flo, Yves,
>>
>> Did we create an area under wiki for specifications and other 
>> documents, which can be jointly edited by our selves?  I know it's in 
>> the plan, not sure whether I missed it or not there :)
>>
>> Flo,
>>
>> How do you prefer we call wiki?  tiki, Tiki, tiki/wiki, TikiWiki...
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
>> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
>> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. 
>> http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Perfparse-devel-int mailing list
>> Per...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/perfparse-devel-int
>>
> 

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Wiki document store.

[Flo G. <fl...@bi...>]

Hi Ben,

Everyone may create new wiki pages. So, just create one. Edit the main 
page and add a word in CamelCase or ((Double Braces)). This adds a new 
page. Tikiwiki's wiki has some special features to group pages. One is 
called "structures" which are numbered pages - like the one i created in 
the documentation area. The other one is the category system. You can 
create new categories and subcategories and categorize almost every object 
in tikiwiki - wiki pages, faq collections, image galleries ... You are 
invited to play around.

About naming: TikiWiki is like Postnuke or drupal a portal system/cms with 
the wiki as  central point. The nickname of tikiwiki is tiki.
So you edit a wiki page in the wiki of tikiwiki.

Flo

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Ben Clewett wrote:

> Flo, Yves,
>
> Did we create an area under wiki for specifications and other documents, 
> which can be jointly edited by our selves?  I know it's in the plan, not sure 
> whether I missed it or not there :)
>
> Flo,
>
> How do you prefer we call wiki?  tiki, Tiki, tiki/wiki, TikiWiki...
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. 
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> _______________________________________________
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> Per...@li...
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>

[Perfparse-devel-int] Re: perfparsed & CPU usage

[Yves <yme...@pe...>]

> libpp_storage_*.so is not in my LD_LIBRARY_PATH

Is is working better if you add the directory that contain libpp_storage_=
*.so in your
LD_LIBRARY_PATH ?

> As for the perfgraph.cgi:
> - When perfgraph.cgi is removed then graphing doesn't work.
> - When perfparse.cgi is renamed to perfgraph.cgi.  Graphs work.

Ben, are there occurences of "perfgraph.cgi" somewhere else than what I c=
hanged in
0.104.2ym1 ? My changes are not supposed to solve that problem !
I suggest to not release 0.104.3 before we have some idea on what that pr=
oblem is.

Yves

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yves [mailto:yme...@pe...]
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:41 AM
> To: Stu...@am...
> Cc: per...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Perfparse-users] perfparsed & CPU usage
>
>
>> FYI
>> In version 104.1ym3 I saw 2 problems with the
>> Solaris 8 compile.
>> - perfparsed no longer parsed data to the mysql database
>
> Is the directory where libpp_storage_*.so in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH ?
> 0.104.2 should change nothing on that, but tell me anyways :)
>
>> - The application looks for perfgraph.cgi instead
>>   of perfparse.cgi
>
> perfgraph.cgi is supposed to be removed. But you have to do it by yours=
elf.
> We did not
> want to remove anything on users' disks and take the responsibility for=
 it.
>
> Could you confirm that you don't have perfgraph.cgi any more on your di=
sk ?
> If the problem still occurs when you run perfparse.cgi, could you tell =
us
> more ?
>
> Yves
>
>>
>> I verified both problems.
>> 1. by reverting back to the 103.2; and
>> made sure the conf files were still in tack.
>> 2. by moving the old perfgraph.cgi out of the way and moving
>> the the new perfparse.cgi to perfgraph.cgi.
>>
>> Later today I will try the 104.2 compile
>> to see if these 2 problems go away.
>>
>
> --
> - Homepage    - http://ymettier.free.fr - http://www.logicacmg.com -
> - GPG key     - http://ymettier.free.fr/gpg.txt                    -
> - Maitretarot - http://www.nongnu.org/maitretarot/                 -
> - Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users=
.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Perfparse-devel-int mailing list
> Per...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/perfparse-devel-int
>
>


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- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Wiki document store.

[Yves M. <yme...@li...>]

> Flo, Yves,
>
> Did we create an area under wiki for specifications and other documents=
,
> which can be jointly edited by our selves?  I know it's in the plan, no=
t
> sure whether I missed it or not there :)

Not there ? :)

> Flo,
>
> How do you prefer we call wiki?  tiki, Tiki, tiki/wiki, TikiWiki...

Wiki is the word for such software. You probably know wikipedia for examp=
le :)
tikiwiki is the name of the software that was chosen for wiki@perfparse.o=
rg.
I don't know if tiki has a meaning when used alone.

This is not an answer to the question, but just hints :)

Yves
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- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -

[Perfparse-devel-int] Wiki document store.

[Ben C. <BCl...@pe...>]

Flo, Yves,

Did we create an area under wiki for specifications and other documents, 
which can be jointly edited by our selves?  I know it's in the plan, not 
sure whether I missed it or not there :)

Flo,

How do you prefer we call wiki?  tiki, Tiki, tiki/wiki, TikiWiki...

Ben

[Perfparse-devel-int] RE: [Perfparse-users] perfparsed & CPU usage

[<Stu...@am...>]

libpp_storage_*.so is not in my LD_LIBRARY_PATH

As for the perfgraph.cgi:
- When perfgraph.cgi is removed then graphing doesn't work.
- When perfparse.cgi is renamed to perfgraph.cgi.  Graphs work.


-----Original Message-----
From: Yves [mailto:yme...@pe...] 
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:41 AM
To: Stu...@am...
Cc: per...@li...
Subject: RE: [Perfparse-users] perfparsed & CPU usage


> FYI
> In version 104.1ym3 I saw 2 problems with the
> Solaris 8 compile.
> - perfparsed no longer parsed data to the mysql database

Is the directory where libpp_storage_*.so in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH ?
0.104.2 should change nothing on that, but tell me anyways :)

> - The application looks for perfgraph.cgi instead
>   of perfparse.cgi

perfgraph.cgi is supposed to be removed. But you have to do it by yourself.
We did not
want to remove anything on users' disks and take the responsibility for it.

Could you confirm that you don't have perfgraph.cgi any more on your disk ?
If the problem still occurs when you run perfparse.cgi, could you tell us
more ?

Yves

>
> I verified both problems.
> 1. by reverting back to the 103.2; and
> made sure the conf files were still in tack.
> 2. by moving the old perfgraph.cgi out of the way and moving
> the the new perfparse.cgi to perfgraph.cgi.
>
> Later today I will try the 104.2 compile
> to see if these 2 problems go away.
>

-- 
- Homepage    - http://ymettier.free.fr - http://www.logicacmg.com -
- GPG key     - http://ymettier.free.fr/gpg.txt                    -
- Maitretarot - http://www.nongnu.org/maitretarot/                 -
- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] header or footer for this list ?

[Ben C. <BCl...@pe...>]

Yves Mettier wrote:

> Ben,
> 
> Could you edit the parameters for perfparse-devel-int and add some footer or header
> (what's the best ?)
> That footer or header would say that this is our high traffic developer mailing-list,
> and that we put this list in CC when answering the users, in order to tell the other
> developers about a problem.
> That footer or header would also say that users don't need to subscribe here if they
> want to be informed and that we don't expect them to do so.
> 
> Besides this, we have perfparse-devel and we are not using it any more. I suggest that
> we use it in a similar way as perfparse-announce. An example is the best explanation of
> my idea :
> 
> users : perfparse-users (high traffic) / perfparse-announce (low traffic)
> devs  : perfparse-devel-int (high traffic) / perfparse-devel (low traffic)
> 
> No need to rename perfparse-devel as perfparse-devel-announce :)

Can't do this.  Once created they are permanent.  I can 'hide' the old 
one and create another.  But rather not as this would loose the postings...

> 
> What do you think ?

The title and subscription options are easy to alter, I can have a look 
at this.  I have never changed the footer but am sure there must be a way.


> If you agree, my next mail to perfparse-devel will be that I will spend a while on
> reinstalling perparse here and then work on the CGI.

I agree, I'll change the title of the groups sometime today.

> Ben, when you start on the new
> schema, post a mail too, with the place where you put your development releases. If we
> work the way we already talked about, the merge between the 2 branchs should be very
> easy :)

This is for another email :)

Ben

[Perfparse-devel-int] cvs access

[Flo G. <fl...@bi...>]

>
> PS. CVS users : yes, I would love to use CVS too, but CVS is not an http protocol and
> the firewall accepts only http :)

The https protocol is excellent to pierce firewalls. I found this:

http://wiki.tcl.tk/9411

It seems that sourceforge is running a ssh server SSH-1.99-OpenSSH_3.6.1p2 
on the https port. Just try http://cvs-ssh.sourceforge.net:443/ in your 
browser. If it works, there is a chance that you can pierce your firewall. 
But it may be possible that your firewall blocks the CONNECT 
somewhere HTTP/1.1 request. Note also that your network admin could get 
upset, and if you do something wrong there is a theoretical chance that 
someone that hacked cvs-ssh.sourceforge.net can see something in your 
internal net (If you accidently enable Port forwarding).

Stunnel (http://www.stunnel.org/) is also a excellent product to gain 
ssh-access to the cvs server via https.

Good luck :-)

Flo

[Perfparse-devel-int] header or footer for this list ?

[Yves M. <yme...@li...>]

Ben,

Could you edit the parameters for perfparse-devel-int and add some footer=
 or header
(what's the best ?)
That footer or header would say that this is our high traffic developer m=
ailing-list,
and that we put this list in CC when answering the users, in order to tel=
l the other
developers about a problem.
That footer or header would also say that users don't need to subscribe h=
ere if they
want to be informed and that we don't expect them to do so.

Besides this, we have perfparse-devel and we are not using it any more. I=
 suggest that
we use it in a similar way as perfparse-announce. An example is the best =
explanation of
my idea :

users : perfparse-users (high traffic) / perfparse-announce (low traffic)
devs  : perfparse-devel-int (high traffic) / perfparse-devel (low traffic=
)

No need to rename perfparse-devel as perfparse-devel-announce :)

What do you think ?

If you agree, my next mail to perfparse-devel will be that I will spend a=
 while on
reinstalling perparse here and then work on the CGI. Ben, when you start =
on the new
schema, post a mail too, with the place where you put your development re=
leases. If we
work the way we already talked about, the merge between the 2 branchs sho=
uld be very
easy :)


Yves

PS. CVS users : yes, I would love to use CVS too, but CVS is not an http =
protocol and
the firewall accepts only http :)
--=20
- Homepage    - http://ymettier.free.fr - http://www.logicacmg.com -
- GPG key     - http://ymettier.free.fr/gpg.txt                    -
- Maitretarot - http://www.nongnu.org/maitretarot/                 -
- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -

[Perfparse-devel-int] RE: [Perfparse-users] perfparsed & CPU usage

[Yves <yme...@pe...>]

> FYI
> In version 104.1ym3 I saw 2 problems with the
> Solaris 8 compile.
> - perfparsed no longer parsed data to the mysql database

Is the directory where libpp_storage_*.so in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH ?
0.104.2 should change nothing on that, but tell me anyways :)

> - The application looks for perfgraph.cgi instead
>   of perfparse.cgi

perfgraph.cgi is supposed to be removed. But you have to do it by yoursel=
f. We did not
want to remove anything on users' disks and take the responsibility for i=
t.

Could you confirm that you don't have perfgraph.cgi any more on your disk=
 ?
If the problem still occurs when you run perfparse.cgi, could you tell us=
 more ?

Yves

>
> I verified both problems.
> 1. by reverting back to the 103.2; and
> made sure the conf files were still in tack.
> 2. by moving the old perfgraph.cgi out of the way and moving
> the the new perfparse.cgi to perfgraph.cgi.
>
> Later today I will try the 104.2 compile
> to see if these 2 problems go away.
>

--=20
- Homepage    - http://ymettier.free.fr - http://www.logicacmg.com -
- GPG key     - http://ymettier.free.fr/gpg.txt                    -
- Maitretarot - http://www.nongnu.org/maitretarot/                 -
- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Idea for Wiki

[Flo G. <fl...@bi...>]

If someone with css/html experience wants to create a new perfparse-style 
for tikiwiki i can give him my support and tiki-knowledge. Most styles 
only need a new (or customized) css. Did you notice the change-style box 
at the right border in tikiwiki?

Flo

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Ben Clewett wrote:

> Yves Mettier wrote:
>
>> I like the wiki : we can customize it better than the sf page :)
>
> Yes, we have the control.  It's also a lot faster on current servers :)  A 
> common html style-sheet on all html would be great.
>
> I wonder whether the style sheet being used by wiki can be edited in wiki 
> until we are all happy with it and can use on other sites?  (That might be a 
> bad idea!)
>
>> Some additionnal idea : how much would they pay to have us do the work 
>> right now instead
>> of when we want ? :)
>> Is it OK with sourceforge to get paid like that ?
>> Is it OK for you to get money that way ?
>
> The second question is yes.  I'll try and find out more about the first :)
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. 
> http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Perfparse-devel-int mailing list
> Per...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/perfparse-devel-int
>

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Idea for Wiki

[Ben C. <BCl...@pe...>]

Yves Mettier wrote:

> I like the wiki : we can customize it better than the sf page :)

Yes, we have the control.  It's also a lot faster on current servers :) 
  A common html style-sheet on all html would be great.

I wonder whether the style sheet being used by wiki can be edited in 
wiki until we are all happy with it and can use on other sites?  (That 
might be a bad idea!)

> Some additionnal idea : how much would they pay to have us do the work right now instead
> of when we want ? :)
> Is it OK with sourceforge to get paid like that ?
> Is it OK for you to get money that way ?

The second question is yes.  I'll try and find out more about the first :)

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Idea for Wiki

[Yves M. <yme...@li...>]

>
> An idea for the Wiki site:
>
> Lists of features users would like to see.  There is one on the project
> page, but is not very well used and not as easy (fun) to use ads wiki.
>
> This mail is recursive, it should go on a list of wanted features, but
> is a request for the same list :)

I like the wiki : we can customize it better than the sf page :)

Some additionnal idea : how much would they pay to have us do the work ri=
ght now instead
of when we want ? :)
Is it OK with sourceforge to get paid like that ?
Is it OK for you to get money that way ?

Yves



--=20
- Homepage    - http://ymettier.free.fr - http://www.logicacmg.com -
- GPG key     - http://ymettier.free.fr/gpg.txt                    -
- Maitretarot - http://www.nongnu.org/maitretarot/                 -
- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -

[Perfparse-devel-int] Idea for Wiki

[Ben C. <BCl...@pe...>]

An idea for the Wiki site:

Lists of features users would like to see.  There is one on the project 
page, but is not very well used and not as easy (fun) to use ads wiki.

This mail is recursive, it should go on a list of wanted features, but 
is a request for the same list :)


Ben

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Re: PP Docs

[Yves M. <yme...@li...>]

> I note parts of the same document in the wiki system.  This worries me
> because the xml version in the package is editable, and I presume the
> wiki version as well.  One only must be master...
>
> In the same way there is other documentation on the sf.net project page=
.
>   So we have four sources of documentation:
>    -  http://sourceforge.net/projects/perfparse

That one should be removed (the contents moved to somewhere else)

>    -  http://perfparse.sf.net  (=3D=3D http://www.perfparse.org)

That one is a mirror of /doc in distribution. This is not the master.

>    -  http://wiki.perfparse.org
>    -  /doc in distribution.

The 2 last ones are masters and have to be for a little while.
Here is my idea :
1/ have the wiki with some documentation growing and growing
2/ take the doc from the wiki and put it in docbook format, for homogenei=
ty. Remove that
doc from the wiki to avoid duplicates and redundancy.
3/ docbook files should generate at least html files that you can see on =
the web site.
4/ Have a special section "comments about the official doc"; Keep an eye =
on it to
improve the doc. Maybe that section is the FAQ ?



> (http://wiki.perfparse.org/ is now working and looking very good, thank=
s
> Flo.)

yes, very good job, Flo :)

> We need something better which includes the tiki sections and fixed
> documentation.  Can I suggest a new menu for the main site which
> reflects all the document sources.

Yes for the menu, with minor changes ...

> (This is descriptive only.  Actual URI may differ.)
>
> Menu Option			URI
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Install Guide		http://perfparse.sf.net/install_guilde.html
> Source: doc/install_guide.docbook.html

Source is xml :)

> Readme			Not on site.
> Source: doc/introduction.docbook.html

No, this should be http://perfparse.sourceforge.net/about.php

> Introduction (new)	http://perfparse.sf.net/introduction.html
> Source: doc/README

Keep it in the wiki for a while as the source. Then make that document in=
 docbook format.

> FAQ			http://wiki.perfparse.org/faq
> Copied from: http://perfparse.sf.net/faq.html

(and remove faq.html)

> Specifications		http://wiki.perfparse.org/??

Say "Specs and drafts (developers only)" instead of "Specifications" :)

> Any other ideas?
>
> As a final point, we have five locations of html:
>
> perfparse.cgi
> perfparse.php
> http://perfparse.sf.net  (=3D=3D http://www.perfparse.org)
> http://wiki.perfparse.org
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/perfparse
>
> This product overlaps local CGI and true Internet.  Such applications
> and documentation should have consistent html, therefore it all looks
> like the same project.
>
> Some time we will have to look into a consistent look to all of these,
> where possible.  A single style sheet for instance might be an excellen=
t
> start?

CSS ? :)


--=20
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- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -

Re: [Perfparse-devel-int] Re: PP Docs

[Ben C. <BCl...@pe...>]

Ben write:
>>Flo, would you like to include any comments about wiki?

Yves wrote:
> Are you sure that a comment about the wiki should go into an "installation guide" ? :)

Probably not.

There are other parts of this documentation which need a clean fork as 
well.  The installation guide has become the one true source of 
information.  You did a too good job :)

I note parts of the same document in the wiki system.  This worries me 
because the xml version in the package is editable, and I presume the 
wiki version as well.  One only must be master...

In the same way there is other documentation on the sf.net project page. 
  So we have four sources of documentation:
   -  http://sourceforge.net/projects/perfparse
   -  http://perfparse.sf.net  (== http://www.perfparse.org)
   -  http://wiki.perfparse.org
   -  /doc in distribution.
Some of it must be out of date.  It's a mess :)

(http://wiki.perfparse.org/ is now working and looking very good, thanks 
Flo.)

We need something better which includes the tiki sections and fixed 
documentation.  Can I suggest a new menu for the main site which 
reflects all the document sources.

(This is descriptive only.  Actual URI may differ.)

Menu Option			URI
----------------------------------------------------------
Install Guide		http://perfparse.sf.net/install_guilde.html
Source: doc/install_guide.docbook.html

Readme			Not on site.
Source: doc/introduction.docbook.html

Introduction (new)	http://perfparse.sf.net/introduction.html
Source: doc/README

FAQ			http://wiki.perfparse.org/faq
Copied from: http://perfparse.sf.net/faq.html

Specifications		http://wiki.perfparse.org/??


Any other ideas?

As a final point, we have five locations of html:

perfparse.cgi
perfparse.php
http://perfparse.sf.net  (== http://www.perfparse.org)
http://wiki.perfparse.org
http://sourceforge.net/projects/perfparse

This product overlaps local CGI and true Internet.  Such applications 
and documentation should have consistent html, therefore it all looks 
like the same project.

Some time we will have to look into a consistent look to all of these, 
where possible.  A single style sheet for instance might be an excellent 
start?

Ben

[Perfparse-devel-int] Re: PP Docs

[Yves <yme...@pe...>]

> Thanks BTW to Yves for converting all our current documentation into th=
e
> 836 lines of docbook format documentation.

:)


> Flo, would you like to include any comments about wiki?

Are you sure that a comment about the wiki should go into an "installatio=
n guide" ? :)

> All,
>
> If there is an expert of docbook here I would like to ask if you know
> how to make the HTML width-scalable.  The html seems to be fixed width
> which looks bad on a web page, as I am sure you have noticed!

Are you using xsltproc as written in install_guide.readme, or db2html ?
Use the other one and see.
And with xsltproc, we should see if there is a parameter to give to xsltp=
roc to change
this. Where ? In the .xsl stylesheet that is maybe documented ? Or at the=
 docbook-xsl
homepage ?
I'll have a look if I dont forget to do it :)

Yves



--=20
- Homepage    - http://ymettier.free.fr - http://www.logicacmg.com -
- GPG key     - http://ymettier.free.fr/gpg.txt                    -
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- Perfparse   - http://perfparse.sf.net/                           -