Recreate attempts of Windows 7 Intermittent Crashes

[Kenneth Wayne Boyd]

I spent a few minutes today seeing if I could narrow down a sequence that will recreate the ocassional crashes.
Using the released version (15.08.8) I got 4 crashes out of 5 attempts.
I then switched to the development environment running 16.05.dev0 and I got 1 crash out of 1 attempt.
Since the development environment doesn't seem to be intimately involved in obvious permission issues in Windows 7, it may lower the probability of that hypothesis. Let me know if you would like me to get more information in the development environment.

I've documented all my attempts in the attached PDF file.

Some of the details of the crash on 16.05.dev0 are below via cut and paste.

DEV-A:16.05.dev0 Attempt 1.5 : Crash
Started
Moved screen to left screen
Load “evronnunc.bas”
File not found
Files
[copied BAS programs to directory]
Files
Load “evronuc.bas”
Run
[Enter][Enter]
screen 0,0,0
Screen 0
Screen 1
Screen 0
load “evronwrd.bas”
Run
CRASH
Python.exe has stopped working
A problem caused the program to stop working correctly.
Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available.

EVRONWRD.BAS

Oops, I forgot this was a "binary" file. But it's the one I used, so here it is.

---

ffe8 0d0a 008f 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020
2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2045
7665 7220 4f6e 7761 7264 00f0 0d14 003a
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9120 574f 5244 5346 243a 2020 fe93 204c
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204c 494e 4543 2400 ff19 ee02 9120 574f
5244 5344 243a 2020 fe93 204c 494e 4544
2400 191a f802 9120 574f 5244 5345 243a
2020 fe93 204c 494e 4545 2400 331a 0203
9120 574f 5244 5346 243a 2020 fe93 204c
494e 4546 2400 4d1a 0c03 9120 574f 5244

---

EVRONUNC.BAS

---

10 REM Ever Onward
20 '
30 ' The following was taken from the inside cover of the sheet music for
40 ' Ever Onward, The IBM Rally Song.
50 '
60 ' "The IBM rally song, Ever Onward, was written in 1931 by IBMer Fred
70 ' Tappe. This rousing number was only one of many songs written and sung
80 ' by the company's marketing representatives, students, managers and
90 ' employees whenever they gatehered for group meetings.
100 '
110 ' "During the 50's and 60's, changing social emphasis precipitated a
120 ' decline in group singing. The lyrics were rewritten in 1958 and sung
130 ' mainly by marketing students in IBM schools. But the company sing-along
140 ' has continued its steady decline; today the strains of Ever Onward
150 ' echo only on old film soundtracks in the company's archives and in the
160 ' memories of longtime IBMers."
170 '
180 ' This arrangement for IBM PC was done by W. E. Schmitt, IBM Charlotte 1982; tie 8-474-3511.
190 '
200 CLS
210 KEY OFF
220 PRINT SPC(25);
230 COLOR 16,7
240 PRINT "EVER ONWARD"
250 COLOR 7,7
260 PRINT
270 PRINT SPC(10);"The IBM Rally song, written by Fred Tappe"
280 PRINT SPC(10);"Arranged for IBM PC by W. E. Schmitt"
290 PRINT SPC(29);" IBM Charlotte"
300 PRINT
310 WORDS1$="There's a feeling ev'ry where of bigger things in store --"
320 WORDS2$="Of new horizons coming into view."
330 LINE1$="o3mnt160l4bb8o4dd8o3gg8bb8ee8ee8mle."
340 LINE2$="mnee8f#e8de8f#g8aa#8mlb.b.mnb."
350 WORDS3$="Our aim is clear To make each year exceed the one before"
360 WORDS4$="Staying in the lead in ev'rything we do."
370 LINE3$="d.bb8o4dd8o3gg8bb8ee8ee8mle."
380 LINE4$="mnef8f#e8de8f#g8ab8mlg.g.g.mng"
390 WORDS5$="The will to win is built right in It will not be denied."
400 WORDS6$="And we will go ahead we know by working side by side."
410 LINE5$="g8f#f#8aa8o4dd8o3aa8f#f#8aa8o4mld.mnd"
420 LINE6$="o4d8dd8dd8dd8dd8dc8o3af#8d2."
430 WORDS7$="Ever Onward, Ever Onward"
440 LINE7$="o3mnt160l4d.e.f#.g.f#.g.g#.a."
450 WORDS8$="That's the spirit that has brought us fame -------"
460 LINE8$="ga8bg8ab8ag8e.mle.mne"
470 WORDS9$="We're big but bigger we will be"
480 LINE9$="e8d#e8gf#8f#f8f#."
490 WORDSA$="We can't fail for all can see"
500 LINEA$="ff#8ag8gf#8g."
510 WORDSB$="That to serve humanity has been our aim -----"
520 LINEB$="f#g8ba8ag#8ae8f#g8a.mla.mna"
530 WORDSC$="Our products now are known ----- in ev'ry zone ----"
540 LINEC$="d8c#d8g.g.mlg.mngd8e.f.mlg.mng"
550 WORDSD$="Our reputation sparkles like a gem -------"
560 LINED$="g#8aa8ab8o4c#c#8o3ba8o4d1"
570 WORDSE$="We've fought our way thru and new "
580 LINEE$="c8o3af#8d.e.f#.g."
590 WORDSF$="Fields we're sure to conquer too"
600 LINEF$="f#f#8gg8g#g#8a8"
610 WORDSG$="For the Ever Onward I B M --------"
620 LINEG$="g#8a8bo4c8de8o3b.a.g1p2"
630 PRINT WORDS1$: PRINT LINE1$
640 PRINT WORDS2$: PRINT LINE2$
650 PRINT WORDS3$: PRINT LINE3$
660 PRINT WORDS4$: PRINT LINE4$
670 PRINT WORDS5$: PRINT LINE5$
680 PRINT WORDS6$: PRINT LINE6$
690 PRINT WORDS7$: PRINT LINE7$
700 PRINT WORDS8$: PRINT LINE8$
710 PRINT WORDS9$: PRINT LINE9$
720 PRINT WORDSA$: PRINT LINEA$
730 PRINT WORDSB$: PRINT LINEB$
740 PRINT WORDSC$: PRINT LINEC$
750 PRINT WORDSD$: PRINT LINED$
760 PRINT WORDSE$: PRINT LINEE$
770 PRINT WORDSF$: PRINT LINEF$
780 PRINT WORDSG$: PRINT LINEG$
790 END

---

[Rob Hagemans]

Excellent stuff, thanks Ken!

I'm going to try to see if I can recreate the crash on a Win64 VM with these precise instructions - if yes, then I can also investigate on my end - if not, perhaps it has something to do with different drivers, making things more difficult.

If you have time, one thing that would also be very useful to find out is whether the issue arises with the SDL2 interface in the development branch. To use this you need to put the SDL2 binary from https://www.libsdl.org/download-2.0.php somewhere on your drive and set the environment variable PYSDL2_DLL_PATH to that location (sorry, more pain). You can then start PC-BASIC with the option --interface=sdl2.

I'm hoping that the sound crash issue is limited to Pygame/SDL1.2 and that the SDL2 library doesn't have the problem, as I intend to replace the Pygame interface with SDL2 (or at least make SDL2 the default) after ironing out a few more issues with it.

Thanks again for your work, do keep me updated!
Rob

[Kenneth Wayne Boyd]

I made another couple of attempts today. 2 Crashes in the development environment. One unsuccessful attempt with SDL2 where I couldn't get it to run in a LiClipse environment with the --interface=sdl2 option. I may have to go solve the mysteries around when things work and don't work with ansipipe in the mix. That may prevent progress here unless there is an equivalent .INI setting? Let me know.

At any rate, there was a slightly different result with Attempt 2.1 in the development environment, but the screen disappeared and a message was left behind in the LiClipse console:

Fatal Python error: (pygame parachute) Segmentation Fault
This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.

I also tried less steps in Attempt 3.1 and got a crash with the fewest commands so far.

I've attached the latest PC-BASIC Crash Notes document.
Ken

[Rob Hagemans]

Hi Ken, thanks for this - my compliments on the excellent detail in your logs!

The segmentation fault indicates there is a crash occurring in Pygame (or its underlying SDL1.2). That means it's a bug in that library or in SDL1.2. The best we can hope is to find workaround to avoid triggering it - for which what you're doing now could prove very useful, if we manage to narrow down the conditions when it happens. If we manage to reliably reproduce it and narrow it down we can send a bug report to the Pygame project.

There is a possibility they have already found this bug and solved it in their development code. Unfortunately Pygame has not seen a new release for a long time... It would be useful to know which version of Pygame you're using though. The quickest way to find out is to run pcbasic -v --debug which should output (among other things) a list of Python modules and their versions. I think the newest released version for Windows is 1.9.2a0, but 1.9.1 is also common.

SDL2 also appears to crash through a problem in the library. I may be able to reprouce this one on my Win64 VM - it doesn't seem to happen on Win32. Here we have a better chance of it being fixed by the project itself since SDL2 is seeing more active development. I have also found forum posts on the internet describing a crash in SDL2 happening on Win64 which went away upon recompiling the binary either with another compiler or on a Win64 rather than a Win32 machine, I'm not sure.

I'll try to reproduce the crash and see if recompiling fixes the issue, in which case I can simply supply my own compoiled SDL binary with the PC-BASIC package.

Rob

[Kenneth Wayne Boyd]

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong.

From the release version I get the following behaviours:

ADMINISTRATOR COMMAND PROMPT
C:\PROGRA~2\PCBASIC\pcbasic -v -- debug ->nothing happens
C:\PROGRA~2\PCBASIC\pcbasic -v ->nothing happens
C:\PROGRA~2\PCBASIC\pcbasic --debug ->screen: PCBASIC 15.08.8 [DEBUG mode]
C:\PROGRA~2\PCBASIC\pcbasic -v --debug >>debugout.txt ->debugout.txt contents = "15.08.8"

LiClipse Environment:
Location:C:\Python27\ansipipe-launcher.exe
Arguments:"python.exe C:\Users\Ken\DOCUME~1\LICLIP~1\PC-BASIC\PCBASI~1\pcbasic.py -v --debug"
->Nothing happens; console status:<terminated> ansipipe-launcher -v --debug [Program] C:\Python27\ansipipe-launcher.exe

Location:C:\Python27\ansipipe-launcher.exe
Arguments:"python.exe C:\Users\Ken\DOCUME~1\LICLIP~1\PC-BASIC\PCBASI~1\pcbasic.py --debug"
PC-BASIC screen: PCBASIC 16.05.dev0

I'm not sure about what I'm looking for regarding "should output (among other things) a list of Python modules and their versions."

Thanks,
Ken

[Rob Hagemans]

Hi, apologies, it appears thet the last relese version did not include ansipipe - as a consequence you won't be able to see output on the ocmmand line. It should work with the development version if you're suing ansipipe-launcher, but perhaps LiClipse gets in the way somehow.

Could you try with the following options:
pcbasic -v --debug --logfile=debugout.txt

Thast should ensure the command-line output ends up on debugout.txt.

Thanks!
Rob

[Kenneth Wayne Boyd]

Here are the debugout.txt files for both the installed environment and the develoment environment that I can get to run.

Environmental logs - other
Pcbasic -v --debug --logfile=debugout.ext
2016-06-11
From installed environment REL-15.08.8
Administrator Command Prompt
C:\PROGRA~2\PC-BASIC>pcbasic.exe -v --debug --logfile=debugout.txt
Resulting debugout.txt
PLATFORM
os: Windows Intel64 Family 6 Model 42 Stepping 7, GenuineIntel 6.1.7601
python: 2.7.6 (default, Nov 10 2013, 19:24:18) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] 32bit WindowsPE

MODULES
numpy: 1.8.0
available

pygame: 1.9.2pre
curses: --
pexpect: 2.3
serial: 2.7
parallel: --

From installed environment DEV-A:16.05dev0
Location: C:\Python27\ansipipe-launcher.exe
Working Directory: C:\Users\Ken\Documents\LiClipse Workspace\PC-BASIC\pcbasic-master
Argumens:"python.exe C:\Users\Ken\DOCUME~1\LICLIP~1\PC-BASIC\PCBASI~1\pcbasic.py -v --debug --logfile=debugout.txt"
Resulting debugout.txt
PLATFORM
os: Windows Intel64 Family 6 Model 42 Stepping 7, GenuineIntel 6.1.7601
python: 2.7.11 (v2.7.11:6d1b6a68f775, Dec 5 2015, 20:32:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] 32bit WindowsPE

MODULES
numpy: 1.10.4
available

sdl2: --
pygame: 1.9.1release
curses: --
pexpect: --
serial: --
parallel: --

[Rob Hagemans]

Hi Ken, on emore thing regarding SDL2: I noticed from your notes that you're using the x64 version. I just set up a dev environment on a 64-bit Windows 7 VM and I noticed that, counter-intuitively, I needed to use th x32 version of the SDL2 DLL. The x64 version leads to an immediate error (which would look much like a crash of PC-BASIC). I don't know why this is but presumably Python is a 32-bit executable, so it needs to link to the 32-bit library. Could you try with the 32-bit SDL2 DLL as well?

Thanks again for your help - I really have a sense that we may be able to pin down and solve the 64-bit crashes this way!

Rob

[Kenneth Wayne Boyd]

I downloaded and tried... however, I don't actually think I'm successfully running with the --interface=sdl2 in the development environment. See Recreate Sessions 3.2, 4.1 and 4.2 which all didn't seem to successfully launch PC-BASIC at all.

Does the --interface=sdl2 option work for the Release 15.08.8 version? If so, I could try from a command line with that version, although I had ansipipe problems... I'll have to probably clarify what works and doesn't work for me regarding starting the release version from the command line.

Bottom line: I don't think I'm successfully getting the %PSYDL2_DLL_PATH% variable set when running from the development versions due to what I'm seeing with attempts 3.2, 4.1 and 4.2.

Thanks,
Ken

[Rob Hagemans]

Hi Ken, thanks for trying this!

Regarding SDL2: in your notes you refer to %PSYDL2_DLL_PATH%. Note that there is a typo in this, the variable should be %PYSDL2_DLL_PATH% (i.e. with the S and Y the other way around). Not sure if that's just a typo in the notes, but if you set the variable with the former name then it will not work.

Maybe it's best if we check first what happens if you try to load the sdl2 module in Python. In other words, no PC-BASIC and no ansipipe, just run Python from the Windows C:\> prompt. First set the environment variable to the directory where you've put the 32-bit SDL2:

C:\>SET PYSDL2_DLL_PATH=C:\drivers\SDL232X\
C:\>C:\Python27\Python.exe

You should see Python's version string and a >>> prompt at which you type import sdl2. If this works correctly, there should be no output at all. You can exit Python with quit():

>>>import sdl2
>>>quit()

If there is a problem with the DLL or the environment variable, you should get an error message here, which could point us to how to solve this issue.

In other news, I have followed your steps with the Ever Onward programs in my Win64 VM but I do not get any crash - for me it works correctly both with pygame and with sdl2. I'll push it around a bit more to see if any crash happens but it looks like (unfortunately) I still can't reproduce the issue - suggesting it only shows up with certain hardware or certain drivers. I'm still hoping SDL2 (once it works) won't crash on your machine either...

Cheers
Rob

[Rob Hagemans]

To answer your other question, the --interface=sdl2 option does not work with the release version. The command line output issues with that version are because I forgot to include ansipipe in the package (will do better next release :)

There are a few more things we can try with the 15.08 release version though. Pygame/SDL1.2 responds to a number of environment variables (see http://sdl.beuc.net/sdl.wiki/SDL_envvars for more info). In particular, the following would be good to try to set before starting the release version and seeing if it crashes:

SDL_VIDEODRIVER=windib

SDL_VIDEODRIVER=directx

SDL_AUDIODRIVER=dsound

SDL_AUDIODRIVER=waveout

SDL_AUDIODRIVER=disk

Apparently the disk audio driver should send the output to a raw audio file called sdlaudio.raw. You can change name/location of that file by setting another environment variable SDL_DISKAUDIOFILE.

Rob

[Rob Hagemans]

Hi Ken, I've packaged the SDL-based version as a pre-release, which you can install alongside the 15.08 version. You can get it from GitHub. Let's hope it finally releases us from those crashes!

Rob

[Anonymous]

Thanks Rob. I'm "still on" regarding investigating this, so will try it out
as soon as I can. I got sidetracked with some work items and a wedding of a
daughter at our house In a couple of weeks. My wife is insisting her
projects have higher priority! :)

Sorry for the delay, but I Hope to finish answers to previous questions and
try your new version soon.

Ken

On Saturday, June 18, 2016, Rob Hagemans robhagemans@users.sf.net wrote:

Hi Ken, I've packaged the SDL-based version as a pre-release, which you
can install alongside the 15.08 version. You can get it from GitHub
https://github.com/robhagemans/pcbasic/releases/tag/16.06.0rc0. Let's
hope it finally releases us from those crashes!

Rob

Recreate attempts of Windows 7 Intermittent Crashes
https://sourceforge.net/p/pcbasic/discussion/bugs/thread/27eccbdb/?limit=25#1964/b6b9/d632/ef1a

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520-344-2720

[Rob Hagemans]

Cheers and congratulations on your daughter's wedding! Such things do have priority :)

Rob

[Kenneth Wayne Boyd]

Hi Rob, I got around to looking at this again.
I confirmed I could still recreate the original symptoms at the 15.08.8 level. (2 crashes in 3 attempts.)
Then I installed 16.06.0rc0 and tried another 3 recreate attempts.
The good news: there were no outright "crashes."
The bad news: I had 3 hangs in either attempting to play the music, or in entering commands after the music successfully finished.

I'm attaching an updated "PC-BASIC Crash Notes.pdf"
The notes on the 6 attempts (3 at 15.x and 3 at 16.x) are in the section "2016-07-23 Recreate Session 5 (RS5)" on page 7.

I didn't get around to resolving the issues with the command line python environment and typos in my envioronment variables. I recorded the Action Item in the "Pending Actions" section AI-01:Open on page 22. I was hoping the new development release would resolve the issues.

It could be that these Windows 7 environments are getting too old. I'm migrating to a new Dell XPS 13 running Microsoft Windows 10 Home Edition. But I'll be keeping the X220 with Windows 7 around as long as it keeps running.

<TANGENT>
As a side note on the Dell XPS 13. I got this XPS 13 system from CostCo, and it seems to be pretty good deal. $1,400 for 16GB / 512GB SSD. But I found it odd that it came with Windows 10 Home Edition rather than Windows 10 Pro as listed on the Dell website. As I had toyed with the idea of running Hiper-V, I searched for information on this XPS 13 model to see if it supported Hiper-V. It turns out there were a bunch of problems with video and the XPS 13. See here for a movie one user gave of the poblem. I'm conjecturing that there are problems with the XPS 13, Skylake, and Hiper-V... and Dell loaded Windows 10 Home (which does not support Hiper-V) on the problematic systems and dumped the product on the discounted market. Video is apparently a pain! :)
</TANGENT>

Ken

[Rob Hagemans]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the new test results! It's a good sign that the crashes don't occur with the rc0 version, which suggests the switch from Pygame to SDL2 avoids that issue.

I'll see if I can reproduce the unresponsive screen issue. There was an additional issue in rc0 with a memory leak in the code interfacing with SDL2 that someone reported on GitHub; this has now been fixed and will be in rc1 once that's released. I don't know if that issue is related to the hangs you see, but it might be consistent with your report - the rc0 version slowly eats up memory at every screen refresh and becomes unresponsive once the memory is full. It would also occur after a few minutes if PC-BASIC is simply left on its start screen with a blinking cursor.

There are a few more issues to solve before I can package rc1 and I am quite busy at the moment so this will probably take a few weeks to appear.

Note that the program EVRONWRD.BAS which you use for testing is designed to run on a monochrome setup; you'll get much better results if you run with the option preset=mda. This will produce green letters on black rather than the white on white, so it'll be easier to see what's going on!

Thanks
Rob

[Rob Hagemans]

Hi Ken,
Thanks for the new test results!  It's a good sign that the crashes don't occur with the rc0 version, which suggests the switch from Pygame to SDL2 avoids that issue. 
I'll see if I can reproduce the unresponsive screen issue. There was an additional issue in rc0 with a memory leak in the code interfacing with SDL2 that someone reported on GitHub; this has now been fixed and will be in rc1 once that's released. I don't know if that issue is related to the hangs you see, but it might be consistent with your report - the rc0 version slowly eats up memory at every screen refresh and becomes unresponsive once the memory is full. It would also occur after a few minutes if PC-BASIC is simply left on its start screen with a blinking cursor.
There are a few more issues to solve before I can package rc1 and I am quite busy at the moment so this will probably take a few weeks to appear.
Note that the program EVRONWRD.BAS which you use for testing is designed to run on a monochrome setup; you'll get much better results if you run with the option preset=mda. This will produce green letters on black rather than the white on white, so it'll be easier to see what's going on!
ThanksRob

On Sunday, 24 July 2016, 5:50, Kenneth Wayne Boyd <kenwboyd@users.sf.net> wrote:

Hi Rob, I got around to looking at this again. 
I confirmed I could still recreate the original symptoms at the 15.08.8 level. (2 crashes in 3 attempts.)
Then I installed 16.06.0rc0 and tried another 3 recreate attempts.
The good news: there were no outright "crashes."
The bad news: I had 3 hangs in either attempting to play the music, or in entering commands after the music successfully finished.

I'm attaching an updated "PC-BASIC Crash Notes.pdf" 
The notes on the 6 attempts (3 at 15.x and 3 at 16.x) are in the section "2016-07-23 Recreate Session 5 (RS5)" on page 7.

I didn't get around to resolving the issues with the command line python environment and typos in my envioronment variables.  I recorded the Action Item in the "Pending Actions" section AI-01:Open on page 22.  I was hoping the new development release would resolve the issues.

It could be that these Windows 7 environments are getting too old.  I'm migrating to a new Dell XPS 13 running Microsoft Windows 10 Home Edition.  But I'll be keeping the X220 with Windows 7 around as long as it keeps running.

<TANGENT>
As a side note on the Dell XPS 13.  I got this XPS 13 system from CostCo, and it seems to be pretty good deal. $1,400 for 16GB / 512GB SSD.  But I found it odd that it came with Windows 10 Home Edition rather than Windows 10 Pro as listed on the Dell website.  As I had toyed with the idea of running Hiper-V, I searched for information on this XPS 13 model to see if it supported Hiper-V.  It turns out there were a bunch of problems with video and the XPS 13.  See here for a movie one user gave of the poblem.  I'm conjecturing that there are problems with the XPS 13, Skylake, and Hiper-V... and Dell loaded Windows 10 Home (which does not support Hiper-V) on the problematic systems and dumped the product on the discounted market.  Video is apparently a pain!  :)
</TANGENT>

Ken

Attachments:

• PC-BASICCrashNotes2016-07-23.pdf (1.1 MB; application/pdf)

---

Recreate attempts of Windows 7 Intermittent Crashes

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