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From: Ford P. <fo...@hi...> - 2012-12-10 03:04:56
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Good evening, I'm new to this forum. I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this GCode conversion tool. Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract Gerber files. Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC. My router table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace. I have several concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers. While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit). I have a new spindle on order and may not see it for another week or so. Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with this 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer. Thinking this through, am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ? Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play. I would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to observe ANY play in the spindle at rest. While I was expecting some play, I was not expecting this much. Are my expectations unreasonable? Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from 0.018" to 0.042". I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following command line: pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08 --zchange 1 --mill-feed 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000 Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second time. After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about 0.010" wide. The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads. I either do not understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS. I do not see an attribute for bit size. Only the -offset, which I've set at 0.002" (half the bit size) It seems the second pass enlarges the insulation by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative offset and saw no real difference. If someone could help me diagnose my issues, I appreciate it. Ford |
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From: Patrick B. <pbi...@us...> - 2012-12-10 12:45:16
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On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600 "Ford Peterson" <fo...@hi...> wrote: > Good evening, > > > > I'm new to this forum. I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this GCode > conversion tool. > > > > Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract Gerber > files. Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, > which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC. My router > table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace. I have several > concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers. > > > > While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool > running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit). I have a new spindle on order and may not > see it for another week or so. Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut > sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with this > 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer. Thinking this through, > am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ? > Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play. I > would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to > observe ANY play in the spindle at rest. While I was expecting some play, I > was not expecting this much. Are my expectations unreasonable? I'm using a small proxxon rotary tool as well (quite successfully) and a cheap, single-toothed bit. I noticed the isolation diameter changes somewhat if the bit is turned in the collet, sometimes requiring adjustment for boards with ICs in smaller packages (MLF). Maybe the collet isn't that accurate, or the center axis of the ball bearing is somewhat misaligned to the axis of the motor? Taking into account how ball bearings work, the bit might even end up at a very slight angle. I can't really tell as I'm not a mechanical engineer and as long as it works reliably there's litte incentive to investigate. > > > Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor > footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from > 0.018" to 0.042". I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following command > line: > > > > pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08 --zchange 1 --mill-feed > 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000 > > > > Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a > 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second > time. After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about 0.010" > wide. The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads. I either do not > understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS. > > > > I do not see an attribute for bit size. Only the -offset, which I've set at > 0.002" (half the bit size) It seems the second pass enlarges the insulation > by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative offset > and saw no real difference. Do you have the remaining copper in the gerber file? The pcb2gcode algorithm expects you to have only the actual traces in the file. It takes your parameters (offset, extra-passes etc.) and tries to mill the board as close to your specifications as possible in a best-effort approach. If the remaining copper is in there as well, it will be treated just like everything else. I hope this helps, if not I can check your test file if you want. -- Patrick |
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From: John S. <jrs...@op...> - 2012-12-11 12:07:57
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also, I would expect something similar if your stage has much backlash,as I think pcbgcode mills the second pass in the reverse order. Are you sure your XY stage has little backlash? also on the second pass the Z hasn't changed? I saw something remarkably similar from a 45 degree cutter with axial play on my spindle (bearing needed adjustment) on a second pass. Fixen in a few seconds with a hex key. john On 10/12/12 23:44, Patrick Birnzain wrote: > On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600 > "Ford Peterson"<fo...@hi...> wrote: > >> Good evening, >> >> >> >> I'm new to this forum. I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this GCode >> conversion tool. >> >> >> >> Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract Gerber >> files. Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, >> which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC. My router >> table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace. I have several >> concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers. >> >> >> >> While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool >> running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit). I have a new spindle on order and may not >> see it for another week or so. Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut >> sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with this >> 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer. Thinking this through, >> am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ? >> Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play. I >> would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to >> observe ANY play in the spindle at rest. While I was expecting some play, I >> was not expecting this much. Are my expectations unreasonable? > > I'm using a small proxxon rotary tool as well (quite successfully) and > a cheap, single-toothed bit. I noticed the isolation diameter changes > somewhat if the bit is turned in the collet, sometimes requiring > adjustment for boards with ICs in smaller packages (MLF). > Maybe the collet isn't that accurate, or the center axis of the ball > bearing is somewhat misaligned to the axis of the motor? Taking into > account how ball bearings work, the bit might even end up at a very > slight angle. I can't really tell as I'm not a mechanical engineer and > as long as it works reliably there's litte incentive to investigate. > >> >> >> Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor >> footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from >> 0.018" to 0.042". I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following command >> line: >> >> >> >> pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08 --zchange 1 --mill-feed >> 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000 >> >> >> >> Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a >> 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second >> time. After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about 0.010" >> wide. The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads. I either do not >> understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS. >> >> >> >> I do not see an attribute for bit size. Only the -offset, which I've set at >> 0.002" (half the bit size) It seems the second pass enlarges the insulation >> by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative offset >> and saw no real difference. > > Do you have the remaining copper in the gerber file? The pcb2gcode > algorithm expects you to have only the actual traces in the file. It > takes your parameters (offset, extra-passes etc.) and tries to mill the > board as close to your specifications as possible in a best-effort > approach. If the remaining copper is in there as well, it will be > treated just like everything else. > > I hope this helps, if not I can check your test file if you want. > > -- Patrick > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list > Pcb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel |
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From: Filip D. <fil...@gm...> - 2012-12-11 14:07:56
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Hi, I also had problems with precision of commercial drills equipped with rather massive spindles/chucks. Finally I solved this by building a completely minimalistic spindle from a M4 brass screw: http://fzu.cz/~dominecf/proj/fdcnc/img/mill_front.jpg I use a common 0.8 mm HSS drill bit, sharpened manually to V-tip. With a little skill in sharpening, it can produce not only an even 0.3-0.5 mm trace, but also drill the holes and cut out the finished board. How is it attached to its place? The screw has a 0.8 mm hole precisely machined in its axis. Additionally, at the bottom end, it was cut twice by thin saw plate, as is visible here: http://fzu.cz/~dominecf/proj/fdcnc/img/mill_frontbottom.jpg The drill bit is clamped just by tightening the bottom two nuts against each other. This creates a vertical strain in the brass, which in practice manifests in pressing the four segments towards the axis and clamping the drill bit. The minimum rotating mass and little distance between the drill bit and the bottom bearing result in quite good operation. There are other problems, such as the need to resharpen and move the drill bit. Just a tip. Filip 2012/12/10, Patrick Birnzain <pbi...@us...>: > On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600 > "Ford Peterson" <fo...@hi...> wrote: >> While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool >> running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit). I have a new spindle on order and may >> not >> see it for another week or so. Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut >> sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with >> this >> 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer. Thinking this >> through, >> am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ? >> Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play. >> I >> would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to >> observe ANY play in the spindle at rest. While I was expecting some play, >> I >> was not expecting this much. Are my expectations unreasonable? |
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From: Ford P. <fo...@hi...> - 2012-12-11 14:43:32
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I think you found my problem(s). Thanks to Pat for taking the time to consider my situation. I was leaving the copper foil on the board and the Gerber output was defining it. So by leaving it on the board, suddenly pcb2gcode needed to deal with those edges as well and started tweaking the insulation path on a second pass. By eliminating the copper fill, only the meaningful traces appear in the Gerber, and consequently the GCode for LinuxCNC. One pass. Also, the offset attribute is defined as being 1/2 the bit size. In a perfect world, this is true. My world is far from perfect. My dremel tool has some run out in the z-axis. I have a new spindle on order but won't be here for another week or so. I disassembled the dremel and discovered they took care in holding the shear motion (side pressure) on the cutter through the use of ball bearings at each end of the spindle/motor shaft. Using a V-bit, the tool wants to climb on top of the copper, forcing me to set the depth deeper to put down pressure on the bit. I'm guessing this surplus board stock has copper of roughly 0.003" or so. I need to set it at a depth >0.008" and a 0.010" is most reliable. In a reliable cut, this 0.004" bit seems to cut a 0.012"-0.015" insulation width. So by setting the offset attribute to 1/2 the average width (e.g. ~ 0.0075") I am able to get traces down to 0.018" or so. That's a fairly small trace. I'm not sure how much glue is left to hold the trace after soldering. Obviously, if I want decent output, it will have to start with a decent spindle. I'm working on that. Chemically tinning the circuit board is important for long term reliability (the copper will rust). Have others experimented with tinning? Does it improve routing quality or make it more complex? Ford -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Birnzain [mailto:pbi...@us...] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:45 AM To: pcb...@li... Subject: Re: [Pcb2gcode-devel] PCB Board Expectations On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600 "Ford Peterson" <fo...@hi...> wrote: > Good evening, > > > > I'm new to this forum. I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this GCode > conversion tool. > > > > Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract Gerber > files. Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, > which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC. My router > table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace. I have several > concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers. > > > > While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool > running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit). I have a new spindle on order and may not > see it for another week or so. Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut > sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with this > 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer. Thinking this through, > am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ? > Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play. I > would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to > observe ANY play in the spindle at rest. While I was expecting some play, I > was not expecting this much. Are my expectations unreasonable? I'm using a small proxxon rotary tool as well (quite successfully) and a cheap, single-toothed bit. I noticed the isolation diameter changes somewhat if the bit is turned in the collet, sometimes requiring adjustment for boards with ICs in smaller packages (MLF). Maybe the collet isn't that accurate, or the center axis of the ball bearing is somewhat misaligned to the axis of the motor? Taking into account how ball bearings work, the bit might even end up at a very slight angle. I can't really tell as I'm not a mechanical engineer and as long as it works reliably there's litte incentive to investigate. > > > Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor > footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from > 0.018" to 0.042". I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following command > line: > > > > pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08 --zchange 1 --mill-feed > 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000 > > > > Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a > 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second > time. After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about 0.010" > wide. The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads. I either do not > understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS. > > > > I do not see an attribute for bit size. Only the -offset, which I've set at > 0.002" (half the bit size) It seems the second pass enlarges the insulation > by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative offset > and saw no real difference. Do you have the remaining copper in the gerber file? The pcb2gcode algorithm expects you to have only the actual traces in the file. It takes your parameters (offset, extra-passes etc.) and tries to mill the board as close to your specifications as possible in a best-effort approach. If the remaining copper is in there as well, it will be treated just like everything else. I hope this helps, if not I can check your test file if you want. -- Patrick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d _______________________________________________ Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list Pcb...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5449 - Release Date: 12/10/12 |
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From: Filip D. <fil...@gm...> - 2012-12-11 15:19:07
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Instead of tinning, I usually email the PCB with fuse dissolved in ethanol. Not only it could provide chemical preservation of copper, but mainly it helps a lot with soldering SMD parts. But I have not seen my circuits after, say, 20 years; maybe the fuse will deteriorate. The fuse email also greatly simplifies the tinning of any thin parts of the PCB. Another improvement in milling thin routes (for TQFP) came when I spent an evening writing an G-code importer which prevents the tool from milling any route twice. (Write me please if you want the source.) Additionally, we are developing another PCB importing program which solves the problem of finding the cutting paths mathematically exactly in the sigma metric. Preliminary testing looks good and I will write to the mailinglist as soon as it proves to be working in practice. I am in favor to add the vector solver to PCB2GCODE and to let the user choose which engine will be used. What do you think about this? F. 2012/12/11, Ford Peterson <fo...@hi...>: > I think you found my problem(s). Thanks to Pat for taking the time to > consider my situation. > > I was leaving the copper foil on the board and the Gerber output was > defining it. So by leaving it on the board, suddenly pcb2gcode needed to > deal with those edges as well and started tweaking the insulation path on a > second pass. By eliminating the copper fill, only the meaningful traces > appear in the Gerber, and consequently the GCode for LinuxCNC. One pass. > > Also, the offset attribute is defined as being 1/2 the bit size. In a > perfect world, this is true. My world is far from perfect. My dremel tool > has some run out in the z-axis. I have a new spindle on order but won't be > here for another week or so. I disassembled the dremel and discovered they > took care in holding the shear motion (side pressure) on the cutter through > the use of ball bearings at each end of the spindle/motor shaft. Using a > V-bit, the tool wants to climb on top of the copper, forcing me to set the > depth deeper to put down pressure on the bit. I'm guessing this surplus > board stock has copper of roughly 0.003" or so. I need to set it at a > depth >>0.008" and a 0.010" is most reliable. In a reliable cut, this 0.004" bit > seems to cut a 0.012"-0.015" insulation width. So by setting the offset > attribute to 1/2 the average width (e.g. ~ 0.0075") I am able to get traces > down to 0.018" or so. That's a fairly small trace. I'm not sure how much > glue is left to hold the trace after soldering. > > Obviously, if I want decent output, it will have to start with a decent > spindle. I'm working on that. > > Chemically tinning the circuit board is important for long term reliability > (the copper will rust). Have others experimented with tinning? Does it > improve routing quality or make it more complex? > > Ford > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Birnzain [mailto:pbi...@us...] > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:45 AM > To: pcb...@li... > Subject: Re: [Pcb2gcode-devel] PCB Board Expectations > > On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600 > "Ford Peterson" <fo...@hi...> wrote: > >> Good evening, >> >> >> >> I'm new to this forum. I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this > GCode >> conversion tool. >> >> >> >> Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract > Gerber >> files. Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04 > LTS, >> which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC. My router >> table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace. I have > several >> concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers. >> >> >> >> While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool >> running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit). I have a new spindle on order and may > not >> see it for another week or so. Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut >> sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with > this >> 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer. Thinking this >> through, >> am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ? >> Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play. >> I >> would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to >> observe ANY play in the spindle at rest. While I was expecting some >> play, > I >> was not expecting this much. Are my expectations unreasonable? > > I'm using a small proxxon rotary tool as well (quite successfully) and > a cheap, single-toothed bit. I noticed the isolation diameter changes > somewhat if the bit is turned in the collet, sometimes requiring > adjustment for boards with ICs in smaller packages (MLF). > Maybe the collet isn't that accurate, or the center axis of the ball > bearing is somewhat misaligned to the axis of the motor? Taking into > account how ball bearings work, the bit might even end up at a very > slight angle. I can't really tell as I'm not a mechanical engineer and > as long as it works reliably there's litte incentive to investigate. > >> >> >> Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor >> footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from >> 0.018" to 0.042". I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following > command >> line: >> >> >> >> pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08 --zchange 1 > --mill-feed >> 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000 >> >> >> >> Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a >> 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second >> time. After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about > 0.010" >> wide. The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads. I either do > not >> understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS. >> >> >> >> I do not see an attribute for bit size. Only the -offset, which I've set > at >> 0.002" (half the bit size) It seems the second pass enlarges the > insulation >> by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative > offset >> and saw no real difference. > > Do you have the remaining copper in the gerber file? The pcb2gcode > algorithm expects you to have only the actual traces in the file. It > takes your parameters (offset, extra-passes etc.) and tries to mill the > board as close to your specifications as possible in a best-effort > approach. If the remaining copper is in there as well, it will be > treated just like everything else. > > I hope this helps, if not I can check your test file if you want. > > -- Patrick > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list > Pcb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5449 - Release Date: 12/10/12 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list > Pcb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel > |
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From: Lionel S. C. <lio...@gm...> - 2012-12-12 01:44:19
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Dear all, This thread is very interesting. I'm learning so many things! I am not sure to fully understand the meaning of all that you are telling, because of my pour English. Can you please Philip tell more about your Fuse finishing? I'm not sure to fully understand. I use Chemical silver. I mill some circuits since a year. I think CS is good for soldering but should not protect reliably the copper. I use spray conformal coat after solder and I'm happy with that. I often use GEDA-PCB to design pcbs and it can export a iso gcode tool path. It is an interesting alternative to pcb2gcode. If you want to compare several NC programs for the same circuit, you can consider designing a PCB with it, export gerbers to feed in pcb2gcode and export the design in gcode with Geda-pcb directly. I tryied to implement a vector exporter for pcb2gcode. I'm not yet fully happy with it, but it is not that bad (export a diameter tool path, simplification, and grow by half the tool diameter). I can share the sources. A Douglas-Peucker simplification algorithm has been developed by Thomas Fritz. It is not bad neither. If my memory is good it implements arc recognition, what an important feature. I can share the sources too. I personally own a CIF Technodrill 2, which features an electric mill spindle and an heavy steal structure. I'm thinking in using a pneumatic spindle. Did anyone tried already? I sometimes use a CIF DW10101 mill bit 90° V bit. It is very expensive, but maybe the best I used. Because of a highly non-flat aspiration baseI often use a TCT ER0.5mm 2 flutes end mill and it works very well. http://radiospares-fr.rs-online.com/web/p/forets-pour-ci/0382002/ http://www.tct-tool.com/products/e-produ-pcb3-body.htm cheers Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE +33(0)6 18 04 20 75 www.dipole-electronique.fr Le 11 déc. 2012 à 16:18, Filip Dominec a écrit : > Instead of tinning, I usually email the PCB with fuse dissolved in > ethanol. Not only it could provide chemical preservation of copper, > but mainly it helps a lot with soldering SMD parts. But I have not > seen my circuits after, say, 20 years; maybe the fuse will > deteriorate. The fuse email also greatly simplifies the tinning of any > thin parts of the PCB. > > Another improvement in milling thin routes (for TQFP) came when I > spent an evening writing an G-code importer which prevents the tool > from milling any route twice. (Write me please if you want the > source.) > > Additionally, we are developing another PCB importing program which > solves the problem of finding the cutting paths mathematically exactly > in the sigma metric. Preliminary testing looks good and I will write > to the mailinglist as soon as it proves to be working in practice. I > am in favor to add the vector solver to PCB2GCODE and to let the user > choose which engine will be used. What do you think about this? > F. > > 2012/12/11, Ford Peterson <fo...@hi...>: >> I think you found my problem(s). Thanks to Pat for taking the time to >> consider my situation. >> >> I was leaving the copper foil on the board and the Gerber output was >> defining it. So by leaving it on the board, suddenly pcb2gcode needed to >> deal with those edges as well and started tweaking the insulation path on a >> second pass. By eliminating the copper fill, only the meaningful traces >> appear in the Gerber, and consequently the GCode for LinuxCNC. One pass. >> >> Also, the offset attribute is defined as being 1/2 the bit size. In a >> perfect world, this is true. My world is far from perfect. My dremel tool >> has some run out in the z-axis. I have a new spindle on order but won't be >> here for another week or so. I disassembled the dremel and discovered they >> took care in holding the shear motion (side pressure) on the cutter through >> the use of ball bearings at each end of the spindle/motor shaft. Using a >> V-bit, the tool wants to climb on top of the copper, forcing me to set the >> depth deeper to put down pressure on the bit. I'm guessing this surplus >> board stock has copper of roughly 0.003" or so. I need to set it at a >> depth >>> 0.008" and a 0.010" is most reliable. In a reliable cut, this 0.004" bit >> seems to cut a 0.012"-0.015" insulation width. So by setting the offset >> attribute to 1/2 the average width (e.g. ~ 0.0075") I am able to get traces >> down to 0.018" or so. That's a fairly small trace. I'm not sure how much >> glue is left to hold the trace after soldering. >> >> Obviously, if I want decent output, it will have to start with a decent >> spindle. I'm working on that. >> >> Chemically tinning the circuit board is important for long term reliability >> (the copper will rust). Have others experimented with tinning? Does it >> improve routing quality or make it more complex? >> >> Ford >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Patrick Birnzain [mailto:pbi...@us...] >> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:45 AM >> To: pcb...@li... >> Subject: Re: [Pcb2gcode-devel] PCB Board Expectations >> >> On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600 >> "Ford Peterson" <fo...@hi...> wrote: >> >>> Good evening, >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm new to this forum. I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this >> GCode >>> conversion tool. >>> >>> >>> >>> Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract >> Gerber >>> files. Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04 >> LTS, >>> which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC. My router >>> table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace. I have >> several >>> concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers. >>> >>> >>> >>> While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool >>> running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit). I have a new spindle on order and may >> not >>> see it for another week or so. Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut >>> sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with >> this >>> 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer. Thinking this >>> through, >>> am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ? >>> Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play. >>> I >>> would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to >>> observe ANY play in the spindle at rest. While I was expecting some >>> play, >> I >>> was not expecting this much. Are my expectations unreasonable? >> >> I'm using a small proxxon rotary tool as well (quite successfully) and >> a cheap, single-toothed bit. I noticed the isolation diameter changes >> somewhat if the bit is turned in the collet, sometimes requiring >> adjustment for boards with ICs in smaller packages (MLF). >> Maybe the collet isn't that accurate, or the center axis of the ball >> bearing is somewhat misaligned to the axis of the motor? Taking into >> account how ball bearings work, the bit might even end up at a very >> slight angle. I can't really tell as I'm not a mechanical engineer and >> as long as it works reliably there's litte incentive to investigate. >> >>> >>> >>> Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor >>> footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from >>> 0.018" to 0.042". I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following >> command >>> line: >>> >>> >>> >>> pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08 --zchange 1 >> --mill-feed >>> 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000 >>> >>> >>> >>> Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a >>> 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second >>> time. After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about >> 0.010" >>> wide. The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads. I either do >> not >>> understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS. >>> >>> >>> >>> I do not see an attribute for bit size. Only the -offset, which I've set >> at >>> 0.002" (half the bit size) It seems the second pass enlarges the >> insulation >>> by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative >> offset >>> and saw no real difference. >> >> Do you have the remaining copper in the gerber file? The pcb2gcode >> algorithm expects you to have only the actual traces in the file. It >> takes your parameters (offset, extra-passes etc.) and tries to mill the >> board as close to your specifications as possible in a best-effort >> approach. If the remaining copper is in there as well, it will be >> treated just like everything else. >> >> I hope this helps, if not I can check your test file if you want. >> >> -- Patrick >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial >> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support >> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services >> Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d >> _______________________________________________ >> Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list >> Pcb...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5449 - Release Date: 12/10/12 >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial >> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support >> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services >> Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d >> _______________________________________________ >> Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list >> Pcb...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list > Pcb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel |
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