pcb2gcode-devel Mailing List for pcb2gcode (Page 2)

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Hi
I've merged your repo (https://github.com/ssfrr/pcb2gcode) into the master
Thanks

Nicola Corna

I noticed that when I was generating paths with multiple paths, the
paths on the very outside of the design were getting put right on top of
each other (see attached pic pcb2gcode_orig.png). It looks like the
bounding box being calculated wasn't taking into account the
"extra_passes" parameter.

I made a minor tweak so it looks at the tool from the "front" layer and
the extra_passes parameter and makes sure the bounding box is large
enough to contain the extra passes. See the result in the other attached
pic (openscam_board.png)

I forked the repo and made my changes in my GitHub repo here:
https://github.com/ssfrr/pcb2gcode

Does my approach seem reasonable? Is there a process for getting this
change merged into the main repository?

Thanks,
-s

I put up a little mini-tutorial on my workflow using pcb2gcode,
including my example project and Makefile:
https://github.com/ssfrr/ftsh_breakout

I'm guessing other pcb2gcode users may find the Makefile useful. Enjoy!

-s

Hi guys,

if I remember correctly, the holes are drilled in the order they are
found in the input file (grouped by drill size). In my case
(using gEDA/pcb) that was top-down I think.

Lionel, if you have anything you wish to contribute, I'll gladly give
you full admin access to the project so you can upload them to the repo
directly (I need your SF user name for that).

Since pcb2gcode already fits my needs well enough und I haven't made any
boards myself in the last 3 years or so, there's very little motivation
for me to start working on it again.
If anyone wants to contribute, take over the project -- officially or
unofficially -- or even create your own fork, you are very welcome to do
so!

-- Patrick

On Fri, 3 Jan 2014 14:17:30 +0100
Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE <lio...@gm...> wrote:

> Hi Reinis
> 
> I looked tonight at the source code of pcb2gcode (surface.cpp mainly).
> 
> By now I find it both hard and not useful to implement douglas-Peucker. 
> 
> Hard because the data representation from my point of view is not good for divide to reign algorithms. 
> Not useful because of the digital nature of the data. The main optimization to do is to join vertical lines and horizontal lines. A Douglas Peucker with arc interpolation would be really interesting on the other hand (with a flag on the command line to tell interpolate with arcs on lines only).
> 
> I think pcb2gcode can output iso as a natural language our gerber. Iso is good because then it is usable directly. Gerber is good to check.
> 
> In fact I spent the night on it. Perhaps with a second night I could achieve something very good, but by now the sources are still messy and I experience difficulties in passing data amongst procedures. I tell you more soon.
> 
> Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE
> +33(0)6 18 04 20 75
> 
> www.dipole-electronique.fr
> 
> Le 3 janv. 2014 à 10:47, Reinis Veips a écrit :
> 
> > Hi Lionel,
> > 
> > 1) After sending my e-mail, I started to browse this list's archive, and found the
> > patch by Thomas. There is even a branch in SourceForge's git repo with his
> > changes. 
> > I did test it a little yesterday, and it did seem to produce usable results, at
> > least on the first glance (in simulator and in a free-air cut). I will probably
> > try to actually mill a board using code generated by this branch this week
> > (once I route it).
> > 
> > 2) I do see a use for pcb2gcode as a backend, which takes gerber, and returns basic
> > motions/lines, and it's up to frontend to post-process them and output G-code.
> > I even don't think pcb2gcode should output G-code- instead, it should return
> > basic cut instructions, and postprocessors should be responsible to prepare
> > G-code from that.
> > 
> > First firmware I tried to use for my mill-controller was originally meant to be
> > used for RepRap's, and it didn't even support G00/G01 with multiple XY
> > coordinates, so I had to change C++ code to output each line as a separate G01
> > command. I have since moved on to adapt grbl for my mill controller, and that
> > works much better (supports imperial units and G00/G01 command blocks).
> > 
> > Postprocessors can and probably should be written in interpreted languages-
> > it would be royal pain to re-compile everything in order to change
> > post-processing rules.
> > 
> > 
> > I also saw the e-mail by Patrick suggesting he does not have time to maintain
> > this software, but there was no response from anyone. I'm quite certain
> > that I don't have expertise to develop pcb2gcode further, but I do have time to
> > devote to test it. 
> > 
> > 
> > Regards, Reinis
> > 
> > On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 03:10:41AM +0100, Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE wrote:
> >> Hi Reinis,
> >> 
> >> For what I can see, the mailing list is _very_ calm. I experienced the same troubles. In fact I would not say that pcb2gcode works.
> >> 
> >> 1) I worked on some algorithms to make it run better. One is to to calculate the path with a tool radius of 0, then offset it. In fact the current algorithm only works for vertical and horizontal segments.
> >> 
> >> Another improvement that is absolutely necessary is to combine pixel-length lines into long and smooth lines. Thomas Fritz was an interesting contributor who (tried) to implement douglas-peuckert algorithm. As far as I know it did not proved to be relevant. But perhaps I never managed to use it.
> >> 
> >> I developed and not committed other functions such as a gerber output to compare the result path and the original files. 
> >> 
> >> 2) Perhaps PCB2Gcode should be integrated in a framework to address your second functionality.
> >> pcb2gcode converts pcb to gcode
> >> drillsort (for example) sorts drill
> >> radiusshift (for example) could recalculate the path with the tool radius shift instead of pcb2gcode. Indeed I often produce boards with several different tools, not only one.
> >> Is C++ really suited to work on numerical command files. Isn't perl ou python more versatile for that? I think pcb2gcode already does too many things. I think it is not necessary for pcb2gcode to mirror files, or to radius shift tool path. Neither is it to know which gerber file is the top and the bottom face, or using the drill files, which are not handled by grebe and are a border.
> >> 
> >> I stopped working on that because my mill seemed not to run properly and I had no time to use it. Now I use it much more often. I have little time but pcb2gcode is worth spending some time on this. If I feel less lonely I could contribute on a new release of pcb2gcode. 
> >> 
> >> Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE
> >> +33(0)6 18 04 20 75
> >> 
> >> www.dipole-electronique.fr
> >> 
> >> Le 2 janv. 2014 à 14:32, Reinis Veips a écrit :
> >> 
> >>> Hello,
> >>> First of all, I'd like to thank everyone involved in this project! pcb2gcode
> >>> gives the best results of all open-source PCB-toolpath-generating applications.
> >>> I have modified pcb2gcode to output G-code in mm, as my machine did not
> >>> support imperial units- that was relatively easy task.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> There are two more changes to pcb2gcode I would like to implement:
> >>> 
> >>> 1) At the moment, pcb2gcode breaks slopes in many small segments. I'm not sure
> >>>  if there are machine controllers which buffer such motions into a continous
> >>>  line, but the one I have looks at each segment separately, and cannot
> >>>  sustain a full feedrate when there are too much small segments. 
> >>>  On the other hand, if a single motion command is sent to machine, it can sustain 
> >>>  such feedrates without a problem.
> >>> 
> >>>  So, the feature I would like to add is to export as few motions as possible.
> >>> 
> >>>  I have no experience with libgerbv and cairo, so I'd first like to ask here- 
> >>>  is such a feature feasible at all? If pcb2gcode is processing rasterized
> >>>  gerber, then I probably won't be able to do much.
> >>> 
> >>> 2) Second problem is a lot simpler. I recall seeing that drilling was done in
> >>>  arbitrary order- am I right, and there is no path-optimization implemented
> >>>  for drilling operations? 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Regards, Reinis
> >>> 
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT 
> >>> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance 
> >>> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your 
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> >>> Pcb...@li...
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel
> >> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hi Reinis

I looked tonight at the source code of pcb2gcode (surface.cpp mainly).

By now I find it both hard and not useful to implement douglas-Peucker. 

Hard because the data representation from my point of view is not good for divide to reign algorithms. 
Not useful because of the digital nature of the data. The main optimization to do is to join vertical lines and horizontal lines. A Douglas Peucker with arc interpolation would be really interesting on the other hand (with a flag on the command line to tell interpolate with arcs on lines only).

I think pcb2gcode can output iso as a natural language our gerber. Iso is good because then it is usable directly. Gerber is good to check.

In fact I spent the night on it. Perhaps with a second night I could achieve something very good, but by now the sources are still messy and I experience difficulties in passing data amongst procedures. I tell you more soon.

Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE
+33(0)6 18 04 20 75

www.dipole-electronique.fr

Le 3 janv. 2014 à 10:47, Reinis Veips a écrit :

> Hi Lionel,
> 
> 1) After sending my e-mail, I started to browse this list's archive, and found the
> patch by Thomas. There is even a branch in SourceForge's git repo with his
> changes. 
> I did test it a little yesterday, and it did seem to produce usable results, at
> least on the first glance (in simulator and in a free-air cut). I will probably
> try to actually mill a board using code generated by this branch this week
> (once I route it).
> 
> 2) I do see a use for pcb2gcode as a backend, which takes gerber, and returns basic
> motions/lines, and it's up to frontend to post-process them and output G-code.
> I even don't think pcb2gcode should output G-code- instead, it should return
> basic cut instructions, and postprocessors should be responsible to prepare
> G-code from that.
> 
> First firmware I tried to use for my mill-controller was originally meant to be
> used for RepRap's, and it didn't even support G00/G01 with multiple XY
> coordinates, so I had to change C++ code to output each line as a separate G01
> command. I have since moved on to adapt grbl for my mill controller, and that
> works much better (supports imperial units and G00/G01 command blocks).
> 
> Postprocessors can and probably should be written in interpreted languages-
> it would be royal pain to re-compile everything in order to change
> post-processing rules.
> 
> 
> I also saw the e-mail by Patrick suggesting he does not have time to maintain
> this software, but there was no response from anyone. I'm quite certain
> that I don't have expertise to develop pcb2gcode further, but I do have time to
> devote to test it. 
> 
> 
> Regards, Reinis
> 
> On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 03:10:41AM +0100, Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE wrote:
>> Hi Reinis,
>> 
>> For what I can see, the mailing list is _very_ calm. I experienced the same troubles. In fact I would not say that pcb2gcode works.
>> 
>> 1) I worked on some algorithms to make it run better. One is to to calculate the path with a tool radius of 0, then offset it. In fact the current algorithm only works for vertical and horizontal segments.
>> 
>> Another improvement that is absolutely necessary is to combine pixel-length lines into long and smooth lines. Thomas Fritz was an interesting contributor who (tried) to implement douglas-peuckert algorithm. As far as I know it did not proved to be relevant. But perhaps I never managed to use it.
>> 
>> I developed and not committed other functions such as a gerber output to compare the result path and the original files. 
>> 
>> 2) Perhaps PCB2Gcode should be integrated in a framework to address your second functionality.
>> pcb2gcode converts pcb to gcode
>> drillsort (for example) sorts drill
>> radiusshift (for example) could recalculate the path with the tool radius shift instead of pcb2gcode. Indeed I often produce boards with several different tools, not only one.
>> Is C++ really suited to work on numerical command files. Isn't perl ou python more versatile for that? I think pcb2gcode already does too many things. I think it is not necessary for pcb2gcode to mirror files, or to radius shift tool path. Neither is it to know which gerber file is the top and the bottom face, or using the drill files, which are not handled by grebe and are a border.
>> 
>> I stopped working on that because my mill seemed not to run properly and I had no time to use it. Now I use it much more often. I have little time but pcb2gcode is worth spending some time on this. If I feel less lonely I could contribute on a new release of pcb2gcode. 
>> 
>> Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE
>> +33(0)6 18 04 20 75
>> 
>> www.dipole-electronique.fr
>> 
>> Le 2 janv. 2014 à 14:32, Reinis Veips a écrit :
>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> First of all, I'd like to thank everyone involved in this project! pcb2gcode
>>> gives the best results of all open-source PCB-toolpath-generating applications.
>>> I have modified pcb2gcode to output G-code in mm, as my machine did not
>>> support imperial units- that was relatively easy task.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There are two more changes to pcb2gcode I would like to implement:
>>> 
>>> 1) At the moment, pcb2gcode breaks slopes in many small segments. I'm not sure
>>>  if there are machine controllers which buffer such motions into a continous
>>>  line, but the one I have looks at each segment separately, and cannot
>>>  sustain a full feedrate when there are too much small segments. 
>>>  On the other hand, if a single motion command is sent to machine, it can sustain 
>>>  such feedrates without a problem.
>>> 
>>>  So, the feature I would like to add is to export as few motions as possible.
>>> 
>>>  I have no experience with libgerbv and cairo, so I'd first like to ask here- 
>>>  is such a feature feasible at all? If pcb2gcode is processing rasterized
>>>  gerber, then I probably won't be able to do much.
>>> 
>>> 2) Second problem is a lot simpler. I recall seeing that drilling was done in
>>>  arbitrary order- am I right, and there is no path-optimization implemented
>>>  for drilling operations? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards, Reinis
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT 
>>> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance 
>>> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your 
>>> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list
>>> Pcb...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel
>> 

Hello,
First of all, I'd like to thank everyone involved in this project! pcb2gcode
gives the best results of all open-source PCB-toolpath-generating applications.
I have modified pcb2gcode to output G-code in mm, as my machine did not
support imperial units- that was relatively easy task.

There are two more changes to pcb2gcode I would like to implement:

1) At the moment, pcb2gcode breaks slopes in many small segments. I'm not sure
   if there are machine controllers which buffer such motions into a continous
   line, but the one I have looks at each segment separately, and cannot
   sustain a full feedrate when there are too much small segments. 
   On the other hand, if a single motion command is sent to machine, it can sustain 
   such feedrates without a problem.

   So, the feature I would like to add is to export as few motions as possible.

   I have no experience with libgerbv and cairo, so I'd first like to ask here- 
   is such a feature feasible at all? If pcb2gcode is processing rasterized
   gerber, then I probably won't be able to do much.

2) Second problem is a lot simpler. I recall seeing that drilling was done in
   arbitrary order- am I right, and there is no path-optimization implemented
   for drilling operations? 

Regards, Reinis

Adding

drill-front=true
milldrill=true

to millproject results in the following:

ERROR:drill.cpp:200:void ExcellonProcessor::export_ngc(std::string, 
boost::shared_ptr<Cutter>, bool, bool): assertion failed: (mirrored == true)

Hi Alejandro,

I want to share my experience compiling pcb2gcode on a Windows OS, I tried
two compilers, first one MinGW 4.3 with Netbeans IDE and the second one
Visual Studio 2012, both of them worked. First at all I had to install GTK+
windows port, gerbv for Windows and boost library, both of them have a
installer for Windows.

I used Netbeans to run configure script and generate the Makefile and the
config.h file, I had some problems here, which I didn't document, but in
the Makefile was generated and was able to compile pcb2gcode.

With Visual studio what I did was to create a new project and add the
source files from pcb2gcode to the project, then I added of the include
directories from GTK+, also the libraries directory.  GTK+ includes all the
.lib file which are neccesary to generate pcb2gcode.exe, gerbv doesn't
provide a .lib file for libgerbv.dll, so I created it manually using the
described in this site
http://adrianhenke.wordpress.com/2008/12/05/create-lib-file-from-dll/
Also I had to add boost_program_options source files to the project 'cause
I was having a problem with the DLL and I didn't want to dig into.  Apart
from that I have to edit some source files, basically changing all the
references to smart_ptr to Boost::smart_ptr, 'cause VS2012 was complaining
about a problem with std::smart_ptr, there are other changes, you can look
at them in the following link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21821636/pcb2gcode-1.1.4_VS2012.diff

With all that the code compiles successfully.

Regards,
Iván

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Alejandro Peralta Alzate <
ape...@un...> wrote:

> Dear pcb2gcode team,
>
> I using the pcb2gcode script for making pcb's. I'm glad to used KiCAD for
> make the schematics. (It wil be interesting to make a plugin for this
> software app).
>
> It's possible to execute the script in Windows OS ?. How is the process or
> the compile ?.
>
> I use a Python GUI Script for interact with pcb2gcode tool.
>
> Thanks and I waiting for your response.
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Atte,
> Alejandro Peralta Alzate - Ingeniero Electrónico
> Universidad Nacional de Colombia - Sede Manizales
> Departamento de Ingeniería Eléctrica, Electrónica y Computación
> Km 9 vía al Aeropuerto La Nubia
> Grupo de Investigación en Telemática y Telecomunicaciones (GTT)
> Teléfono: (+57 6) 887 93 00 (ext. 55771)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Get 100% visibility into your production application - at no cost.
> Code-level diagnostics for performance bottlenecks with <2% overhead
> Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes.
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> _______________________________________________
> Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list
> Pcb...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel
>
>

Dear pcb2gcode team,

I using the pcb2gcode script for making pcb's. I'm glad to used KiCAD for
make the schematics. (It wil be interesting to make a plugin for this
software app).

It's possible to execute the script in Windows OS ?. How is the process or
the compile ?.

I use a Python GUI Script for interact with pcb2gcode tool.

Thanks and I waiting for your response.

Regards

-- 
Atte,
Alejandro Peralta Alzate - Ingeniero Electrónico
Universidad Nacional de Colombia - Sede Manizales
Departamento de Ingeniería Eléctrica, Electrónica y Computación
Km 9 vía al Aeropuerto La Nubia
Grupo de Investigación en Telemática y Telecomunicaciones (GTT)
Teléfono: (+57 6) 887 93 00 (ext. 55771)

Hello

First of all: Thanks for pcb2gcode!

I would like to contribute a small Python gui for pcb2gcode (Open source).
If you are interested, you can download it on my website:
http://home.mnet-online.de/erikschuster/misc.htm#pcb2gcode%20gui

Best regards and happy isolation routing
Erik

-- 
mailto:er...@mu...
http://home.mnet-online.de/erikschuster

Hi,

For me pcb2gcode only works properly on "Manhatan" shapes (vertical, horizontals, not diagonals or rounded). I'm working on a patch but it does not work yet and I have no time for that.

It is difficult to describe the bug. The radius shift performed on the edge of the pixels, not on the true smoothed shape. 

SY

Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE
+33(0)6 18 04 20 75

www.dipole-electronique.fr

Le 27 janv. 2013 à 08:57, shristov a écrit :

> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> 
> thank you for this nice tool.
> I just started using it, and already have three nice looking boards.
> 
> I get incorrect corner radius with a rounded rectangle outline.
> 
> The cutter center moves with the same radius as in the ouline Gerber file,
> instead of a radius enlarged by the tool radius.
> 
> Example:
>  3 mm  Gerber file radius
>  2 mm  cutter radius (4 mm diameter in millproject)
>  1 mm  milled board radius
> 
> I didn't try it, but I suspect that more complex outline shapes will also have some detail wrong.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Sinisa
> 
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1. Metric Output  (the current "metric" option accepts metric Gerbers, but the output is still in inch)

2. Specify the value of P parameter for G64  (currently fixed to 5 pixels)

3. Specify separate feed rates and spindle speeds for drill tools;
   if there has to be a fixed limit on number of drills, I'd suggest 16.

Regards,

Sinisa

Hi Patrick,

thank you for this nice tool.
I just started using it, and already have three nice looking boards.

I get incorrect corner radius with a rounded rectangle outline.

The cutter center moves with the same radius as in the ouline Gerber file,
instead of a radius enlarged by the tool radius.

Example:
  3 mm  Gerber file radius
  2 mm  cutter radius (4 mm diameter in millproject)
  1 mm  milled board radius

I didn't try it, but I suspect that more complex outline shapes will also have some detail wrong.

Regards,

Sinisa

Dear all,

This thread is very interesting. I'm learning so many things!

I am not sure to fully understand the meaning of all that you are telling, because of my pour English. Can you please Philip tell more about your Fuse finishing? I'm not sure to fully understand.
I use Chemical silver. I mill some circuits since a year. I think CS is good for soldering but should not protect reliably the copper. I use spray conformal coat after solder and I'm happy with that.

I often use GEDA-PCB to design pcbs and it can export a iso gcode tool path. It is an interesting alternative to pcb2gcode. If you want to compare several NC programs for the same circuit, you can consider designing a PCB with it, export gerbers to feed in pcb2gcode and export the design in gcode with Geda-pcb directly.

I tryied to implement a vector exporter for pcb2gcode. I'm not yet fully happy with it, but it is not that bad (export a diameter tool path, simplification, and grow by half the tool diameter). I  can share the sources. A Douglas-Peucker simplification algorithm has been developed by Thomas Fritz. It is not bad neither. If my memory is good it implements arc recognition, what an important feature. 
I can share the sources too.

I personally own a CIF Technodrill 2, which features an electric mill spindle and an heavy steal structure. I'm thinking in using a pneumatic spindle. Did anyone tried already? I sometimes use a CIF DW10101 mill bit 90° V bit. It is very expensive, but maybe the best I used. Because of a highly non-flat aspiration baseI often use a TCT ER0.5mm 2 flutes end mill and it works very well.
http://radiospares-fr.rs-online.com/web/p/forets-pour-ci/0382002/
http://www.tct-tool.com/products/e-produ-pcb3-body.htm

cheers

Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE
+33(0)6 18 04 20 75

www.dipole-electronique.fr

Le 11 déc. 2012 à 16:18, Filip Dominec a écrit :

> Instead of tinning, I usually email the PCB with fuse dissolved in
> ethanol. Not only it could provide chemical preservation of copper,
> but mainly it helps a lot with soldering SMD parts. But I have not
> seen my circuits after, say, 20 years; maybe the fuse will
> deteriorate. The fuse email also greatly simplifies the tinning of any
> thin parts of the PCB.
> 
> Another improvement in milling thin routes (for TQFP) came when I
> spent an evening writing an G-code importer which prevents the tool
> from milling any route twice. (Write me please if you want the
> source.)
> 
> Additionally, we are developing another PCB importing program which
> solves the problem of finding the cutting paths mathematically exactly
> in the sigma metric. Preliminary testing looks good and I will write
> to the mailinglist as soon as it proves to be working in practice. I
> am in favor to add the vector solver to PCB2GCODE and to let the user
> choose which engine will be used. What do you think about this?
> F.
> 
> 2012/12/11, Ford Peterson <fo...@hi...>:
>> I think you found my problem(s).  Thanks to Pat for taking the time to
>> consider my situation.
>> 
>> I was leaving the copper foil on the board and the Gerber output was
>> defining it.  So by leaving it on the board, suddenly pcb2gcode needed to
>> deal with those edges as well and started tweaking the insulation path on a
>> second pass.  By eliminating the copper fill, only the meaningful traces
>> appear in the Gerber, and consequently the GCode for LinuxCNC.  One pass.
>> 
>> Also, the offset attribute is defined as being 1/2 the bit size.  In a
>> perfect world, this is true.  My world is far from perfect.  My dremel tool
>> has some run out in the z-axis.  I have a new spindle on order but won't be
>> here for another week or so.  I disassembled the dremel and discovered they
>> took care in holding the shear motion (side pressure) on the cutter through
>> the use of ball bearings at each end of the spindle/motor shaft.  Using a
>> V-bit, the tool wants to climb on top of the copper, forcing me to set the
>> depth deeper to put down pressure on the bit.  I'm guessing this surplus
>> board stock has copper of roughly 0.003" or so.  I need to set it at a
>> depth
>>> 0.008" and a 0.010" is most reliable.  In a reliable cut, this 0.004" bit
>> seems to cut a 0.012"-0.015" insulation width.  So by setting the offset
>> attribute to 1/2 the average width (e.g. ~ 0.0075") I am able to get traces
>> down to 0.018" or so.  That's a fairly small trace.  I'm not sure how much
>> glue is left to hold the trace after soldering.
>> 
>> Obviously, if I want decent output, it will have to start with a decent
>> spindle.  I'm working on that.
>> 
>> Chemically tinning the circuit board is important for long term reliability
>> (the copper will rust).  Have others experimented with tinning?  Does it
>> improve routing quality or make it more complex?
>> 
>> Ford
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Patrick Birnzain [mailto:pbi...@us...]
>> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:45 AM
>> To: pcb...@li...
>> Subject: Re: [Pcb2gcode-devel] PCB Board Expectations
>> 
>> On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600
>> "Ford Peterson" <fo...@hi...> wrote:
>> 
>>> Good evening,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm new to this forum.  I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this
>> GCode
>>> conversion tool.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract
>> Gerber
>>> files.  Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04
>> LTS,
>>> which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC.  My router
>>> table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace.  I have
>> several
>>> concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool
>>> running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit).  I have a new spindle on order and may
>> not
>>> see it for another week or so.  Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut
>>> sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with
>> this
>>> 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer.  Thinking this
>>> through,
>>> am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ?
>>> Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play.
>>> I
>>> would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to
>>> observe ANY play in the spindle at rest.  While I was expecting some
>>> play,
>> I
>>> was not expecting this much.  Are my expectations unreasonable?
>> 
>> I'm using a small proxxon rotary tool as well (quite successfully) and
>> a cheap, single-toothed bit. I noticed the isolation diameter changes
>> somewhat if the bit is turned in the collet, sometimes requiring
>> adjustment for boards with ICs in smaller packages (MLF).
>> Maybe the collet isn't that accurate, or the center axis of the ball
>> bearing is somewhat misaligned to the axis of the motor? Taking into
>> account how ball bearings work, the bit might even end up at a very
>> slight angle. I can't really tell as I'm not a mechanical engineer and
>> as long as it works reliably there's litte incentive to investigate.
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor
>>> footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from
>>> 0.018" to 0.042".   I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following
>> command
>>> line:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08  --zchange 1
>> --mill-feed
>>> 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a
>>> 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second
>>> time.  After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about
>> 0.010"
>>> wide.  The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads.  I either do
>> not
>>> understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I do not see an attribute for bit size.  Only the -offset, which I've set
>> at
>>> 0.002" (half the bit size)  It seems the second pass enlarges the
>> insulation
>>> by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative
>> offset
>>> and saw no real difference.
>> 
>> Do you have the remaining copper in the gerber file? The pcb2gcode
>> algorithm expects you to have only the actual traces in the file. It
>> takes your parameters (offset, extra-passes etc.) and tries to mill the
>> board as close to your specifications as possible in a best-effort
>> approach. If the remaining copper is in there as well, it will be
>> treated just like everything else.
>> 
>> I hope this helps, if not I can check your test file if you want.
>> 
>> -- Patrick
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial
>> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
>> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
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>> Pcb...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel
>> 
>> 
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5449 - Release Date: 12/10/12
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Instead of tinning, I usually email the PCB with fuse dissolved in
ethanol. Not only it could provide chemical preservation of copper,
but mainly it helps a lot with soldering SMD parts. But I have not
seen my circuits after, say, 20 years; maybe the fuse will
deteriorate. The fuse email also greatly simplifies the tinning of any
thin parts of the PCB.

Another improvement in milling thin routes (for TQFP) came when I
spent an evening writing an G-code importer which prevents the tool
from milling any route twice. (Write me please if you want the
source.)

Additionally, we are developing another PCB importing program which
solves the problem of finding the cutting paths mathematically exactly
in the sigma metric. Preliminary testing looks good and I will write
to the mailinglist as soon as it proves to be working in practice. I
am in favor to add the vector solver to PCB2GCODE and to let the user
choose which engine will be used. What do you think about this?
F.

2012/12/11, Ford Peterson <fo...@hi...>:
> I think you found my problem(s).  Thanks to Pat for taking the time to
> consider my situation.
>
> I was leaving the copper foil on the board and the Gerber output was
> defining it.  So by leaving it on the board, suddenly pcb2gcode needed to
> deal with those edges as well and started tweaking the insulation path on a
> second pass.  By eliminating the copper fill, only the meaningful traces
> appear in the Gerber, and consequently the GCode for LinuxCNC.  One pass.
>
> Also, the offset attribute is defined as being 1/2 the bit size.  In a
> perfect world, this is true.  My world is far from perfect.  My dremel tool
> has some run out in the z-axis.  I have a new spindle on order but won't be
> here for another week or so.  I disassembled the dremel and discovered they
> took care in holding the shear motion (side pressure) on the cutter through
> the use of ball bearings at each end of the spindle/motor shaft.  Using a
> V-bit, the tool wants to climb on top of the copper, forcing me to set the
> depth deeper to put down pressure on the bit.  I'm guessing this surplus
> board stock has copper of roughly 0.003" or so.  I need to set it at a
> depth
>>0.008" and a 0.010" is most reliable.  In a reliable cut, this 0.004" bit
> seems to cut a 0.012"-0.015" insulation width.  So by setting the offset
> attribute to 1/2 the average width (e.g. ~ 0.0075") I am able to get traces
> down to 0.018" or so.  That's a fairly small trace.  I'm not sure how much
> glue is left to hold the trace after soldering.
>
> Obviously, if I want decent output, it will have to start with a decent
> spindle.  I'm working on that.
>
> Chemically tinning the circuit board is important for long term reliability
> (the copper will rust).  Have others experimented with tinning?  Does it
> improve routing quality or make it more complex?
>
> Ford
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Birnzain [mailto:pbi...@us...]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:45 AM
> To: pcb...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Pcb2gcode-devel] PCB Board Expectations
>
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600
> "Ford Peterson" <fo...@hi...> wrote:
>
>> Good evening,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm new to this forum.  I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this
> GCode
>> conversion tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract
> Gerber
>> files.  Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04
> LTS,
>> which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC.  My router
>> table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace.  I have
> several
>> concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers.
>>
>>
>>
>> While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool
>> running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit).  I have a new spindle on order and may
> not
>> see it for another week or so.  Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut
>> sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with
> this
>> 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer.  Thinking this
>> through,
>> am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ?
>> Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play.
>> I
>> would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to
>> observe ANY play in the spindle at rest.  While I was expecting some
>> play,
> I
>> was not expecting this much.  Are my expectations unreasonable?
>
> I'm using a small proxxon rotary tool as well (quite successfully) and
> a cheap, single-toothed bit. I noticed the isolation diameter changes
> somewhat if the bit is turned in the collet, sometimes requiring
> adjustment for boards with ICs in smaller packages (MLF).
> Maybe the collet isn't that accurate, or the center axis of the ball
> bearing is somewhat misaligned to the axis of the motor? Taking into
> account how ball bearings work, the bit might even end up at a very
> slight angle. I can't really tell as I'm not a mechanical engineer and
> as long as it works reliably there's litte incentive to investigate.
>
>>
>>
>> Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor
>> footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from
>> 0.018" to 0.042".   I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following
> command
>> line:
>>
>>
>>
>> pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08  --zchange 1
> --mill-feed
>> 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000
>>
>>
>>
>> Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a
>> 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second
>> time.  After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about
> 0.010"
>> wide.  The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads.  I either do
> not
>> understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not see an attribute for bit size.  Only the -offset, which I've set
> at
>> 0.002" (half the bit size)  It seems the second pass enlarges the
> insulation
>> by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative
> offset
>> and saw no real difference.
>
> Do you have the remaining copper in the gerber file? The pcb2gcode
> algorithm expects you to have only the actual traces in the file. It
> takes your parameters (offset, extra-passes etc.) and tries to mill the
> board as close to your specifications as possible in a best-effort
> approach. If the remaining copper is in there as well, it will be
> treated just like everything else.
>
> I hope this helps, if not I can check your test file if you want.
>
> -- Patrick
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial
> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
> Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d
> _______________________________________________
> Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list
> Pcb...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5449 - Release Date: 12/10/12
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial
> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
> Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d
> _______________________________________________
> Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list
> Pcb...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel
>

I think you found my problem(s).  Thanks to Pat for taking the time to
consider my situation.  

I was leaving the copper foil on the board and the Gerber output was
defining it.  So by leaving it on the board, suddenly pcb2gcode needed to
deal with those edges as well and started tweaking the insulation path on a
second pass.  By eliminating the copper fill, only the meaningful traces
appear in the Gerber, and consequently the GCode for LinuxCNC.  One pass.

Also, the offset attribute is defined as being 1/2 the bit size.  In a
perfect world, this is true.  My world is far from perfect.  My dremel tool
has some run out in the z-axis.  I have a new spindle on order but won't be
here for another week or so.  I disassembled the dremel and discovered they
took care in holding the shear motion (side pressure) on the cutter through
the use of ball bearings at each end of the spindle/motor shaft.  Using a
V-bit, the tool wants to climb on top of the copper, forcing me to set the
depth deeper to put down pressure on the bit.  I'm guessing this surplus
board stock has copper of roughly 0.003" or so.  I need to set it at a depth
>0.008" and a 0.010" is most reliable.  In a reliable cut, this 0.004" bit
seems to cut a 0.012"-0.015" insulation width.  So by setting the offset
attribute to 1/2 the average width (e.g. ~ 0.0075") I am able to get traces
down to 0.018" or so.  That's a fairly small trace.  I'm not sure how much
glue is left to hold the trace after soldering.

Obviously, if I want decent output, it will have to start with a decent
spindle.  I'm working on that.

Chemically tinning the circuit board is important for long term reliability
(the copper will rust).  Have others experimented with tinning?  Does it
improve routing quality or make it more complex?

Ford

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Birnzain [mailto:pbi...@us...] 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:45 AM
To: pcb...@li...
Subject: Re: [Pcb2gcode-devel] PCB Board Expectations

On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600
"Ford Peterson" <fo...@hi...> wrote:

> Good evening,
> 
>  
> 
> I'm new to this forum.  I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this
GCode
> conversion tool.
> 
>  
> 
> Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract
Gerber
> files.  Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04
LTS,
> which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC.  My router
> table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace.  I have
several
> concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers.
> 
>  
> 
> While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool
> running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit).  I have a new spindle on order and may
not
> see it for another week or so.  Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut
> sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with
this
> 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer.  Thinking this through,
> am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ?
> Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play.  I
> would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to
> observe ANY play in the spindle at rest.  While I was expecting some play,
I
> was not expecting this much.  Are my expectations unreasonable?

I'm using a small proxxon rotary tool as well (quite successfully) and
a cheap, single-toothed bit. I noticed the isolation diameter changes
somewhat if the bit is turned in the collet, sometimes requiring
adjustment for boards with ICs in smaller packages (MLF).
Maybe the collet isn't that accurate, or the center axis of the ball
bearing is somewhat misaligned to the axis of the motor? Taking into
account how ball bearings work, the bit might even end up at a very
slight angle. I can't really tell as I'm not a mechanical engineer and
as long as it works reliably there's litte incentive to investigate.

>  
> 
> Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor
> footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from
> 0.018" to 0.042".   I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following
command
> line:
> 
>  
> 
> pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08  --zchange 1
--mill-feed
> 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000
> 
>  
> 
> Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a
> 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second
> time.  After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about
0.010"
> wide.  The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads.  I either do
not
> understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS.
> 
>  
> 
> I do not see an attribute for bit size.  Only the -offset, which I've set
at
> 0.002" (half the bit size)  It seems the second pass enlarges the
insulation
> by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative
offset
> and saw no real difference.

Do you have the remaining copper in the gerber file? The pcb2gcode
algorithm expects you to have only the actual traces in the file. It
takes your parameters (offset, extra-passes etc.) and tries to mill the
board as close to your specifications as possible in a best-effort
approach. If the remaining copper is in there as well, it will be
treated just like everything else.

I hope this helps, if not I can check your test file if you want.

-- Patrick

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
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-----
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Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5449 - Release Date: 12/10/12

Hi, I also had problems with precision of commercial drills equipped
with rather massive spindles/chucks. Finally I solved this by building
a completely minimalistic spindle from a M4 brass screw:
http://fzu.cz/~dominecf/proj/fdcnc/img/mill_front.jpg

I use a common 0.8 mm HSS drill bit, sharpened manually to V-tip. With
a little skill in sharpening, it can produce not only an even 0.3-0.5
mm trace, but also drill the holes and cut out the finished board.

How is it attached to its place? The screw has a 0.8 mm hole precisely
machined in its axis. Additionally, at the bottom end, it was cut
twice by thin saw plate, as is visible here:
http://fzu.cz/~dominecf/proj/fdcnc/img/mill_frontbottom.jpg
The drill bit is clamped just by tightening the bottom two nuts
against each other. This creates a vertical strain in the brass, which
in practice manifests in pressing the four segments towards the axis
and clamping the drill bit.

The minimum rotating mass and little distance between the drill bit
and the bottom bearing result in quite good operation. There are other
problems, such as the need to resharpen and move the drill bit. Just a
tip.
Filip

2012/12/10, Patrick Birnzain <pbi...@us...>:
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600
> "Ford Peterson" <fo...@hi...> wrote:
>> While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool
>> running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit).  I have a new spindle on order and may
>> not
>> see it for another week or so.  Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut
>> sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with
>> this
>> 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer.  Thinking this
>> through,
>> am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ?
>> Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play.
>> I
>> would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to
>> observe ANY play in the spindle at rest.  While I was expecting some play,
>> I
>> was not expecting this much.  Are my expectations unreasonable?

also, I would expect something similar if your stage has much 
backlash,as I think pcbgcode mills the second pass in the reverse order.

Are you sure your XY stage has little backlash?

also on the second pass the Z hasn't changed?

I saw something remarkably similar from a 45 degree cutter with axial 
play on my spindle (bearing needed adjustment) on a second pass.
Fixen in a few seconds with a hex  key.

john

On 10/12/12 23:44, Patrick Birnzain wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600
> "Ford Peterson"<fo...@hi...>  wrote:
>
>> Good evening,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm new to this forum.  I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this GCode
>> conversion tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract Gerber
>> files.  Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04 LTS,
>> which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC.  My router
>> table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace.  I have several
>> concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers.
>>
>>
>>
>> While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool
>> running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit).  I have a new spindle on order and may not
>> see it for another week or so.  Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut
>> sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with this
>> 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer.  Thinking this through,
>> am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ?
>> Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play.  I
>> would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to
>> observe ANY play in the spindle at rest.  While I was expecting some play, I
>> was not expecting this much.  Are my expectations unreasonable?
>
> I'm using a small proxxon rotary tool as well (quite successfully) and
> a cheap, single-toothed bit. I noticed the isolation diameter changes
> somewhat if the bit is turned in the collet, sometimes requiring
> adjustment for boards with ICs in smaller packages (MLF).
> Maybe the collet isn't that accurate, or the center axis of the ball
> bearing is somewhat misaligned to the axis of the motor? Taking into
> account how ball bearings work, the bit might even end up at a very
> slight angle. I can't really tell as I'm not a mechanical engineer and
> as long as it works reliably there's litte incentive to investigate.
>
>>
>>
>> Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor
>> footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from
>> 0.018" to 0.042".   I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following command
>> line:
>>
>>
>>
>> pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08  --zchange 1 --mill-feed
>> 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000
>>
>>
>>
>> Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a
>> 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second
>> time.  After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about 0.010"
>> wide.  The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads.  I either do not
>> understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not see an attribute for bit size.  Only the -offset, which I've set at
>> 0.002" (half the bit size)  It seems the second pass enlarges the insulation
>> by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative offset
>> and saw no real difference.
>
> Do you have the remaining copper in the gerber file? The pcb2gcode
> algorithm expects you to have only the actual traces in the file. It
> takes your parameters (offset, extra-passes etc.) and tries to mill the
> board as close to your specifications as possible in a best-effort
> approach. If the remaining copper is in there as well, it will be
> treated just like everything else.
>
> I hope this helps, if not I can check your test file if you want.
>
> -- Patrick
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial
> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
> Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d
> _______________________________________________
> Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list
> Pcb...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel

On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 21:05:11 -0600
"Ford Peterson" <fo...@hi...> wrote:

> Good evening,
> 
>  
> 
> I'm new to this forum.  I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this GCode
> conversion tool.
> 
>  
> 
> Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract Gerber
> files.  Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04 LTS,
> which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC.  My router
> table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace.  I have several
> concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers.
> 
>  
> 
> While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool
> running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit).  I have a new spindle on order and may not
> see it for another week or so.  Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut
> sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with this
> 0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer.  Thinking this through,
> am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ?
> Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play.  I
> would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to
> observe ANY play in the spindle at rest.  While I was expecting some play, I
> was not expecting this much.  Are my expectations unreasonable?

I'm using a small proxxon rotary tool as well (quite successfully) and
a cheap, single-toothed bit. I noticed the isolation diameter changes
somewhat if the bit is turned in the collet, sometimes requiring
adjustment for boards with ICs in smaller packages (MLF).
Maybe the collet isn't that accurate, or the center axis of the ball
bearing is somewhat misaligned to the axis of the motor? Taking into
account how ball bearings work, the bit might even end up at a very
slight angle. I can't really tell as I'm not a mechanical engineer and
as long as it works reliably there's litte incentive to investigate.

>  
> 
> Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor
> footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from
> 0.018" to 0.042".   I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following command
> line:
> 
>  
> 
> pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08  --zchange 1 --mill-feed
> 6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000
> 
>  
> 
> Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a
> 0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second
> time.  After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about 0.010"
> wide.  The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads.  I either do not
> understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS.
> 
>  
> 
> I do not see an attribute for bit size.  Only the -offset, which I've set at
> 0.002" (half the bit size)  It seems the second pass enlarges the insulation
> by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative offset
> and saw no real difference.

Do you have the remaining copper in the gerber file? The pcb2gcode
algorithm expects you to have only the actual traces in the file. It
takes your parameters (offset, extra-passes etc.) and tries to mill the
board as close to your specifications as possible in a best-effort
approach. If the remaining copper is in there as well, it will be
treated just like everything else.

I hope this helps, if not I can check your test file if you want.

-- Patrick

Good evening,

I'm new to this forum.  I'm trying to diagnose some problems with this GCode
conversion tool.

Using KiCAD for circuit board design and layout, I'm able to extract Gerber
files.  Pcb2gcode converts them for running LinuxCNC under Ubuntu 10.04 LTS,
which is the most recent stable version for running LinuxCNC.  My router
table seems to be able to reliably hold a repeatable trace.  I have several
concerns and am hoping this list can provide some reliable answers.

While the spindle on my CNC is light duty (a ball bearing dremel tool
running a 0.1mm 60 degree V bit).  I have a new spindle on order and may not
see it for another week or so.  Adjusting the Z axis to obtain a cut
sufficient to remove copper, the narrowest insulation I can obtain with this
0.00397" V bit is about 0.030" using a micrometer.  Thinking this through,
am I observing the run-out in the bearing at being roughly 0.026" ?
Inspecting the spindle I simply cannot believe there is that much play.  I
would certainly expect to visibly see 0.026" of play and I'm unable to
observe ANY play in the spindle at rest.  While I was expecting some play, I
was not expecting this much.  Are my expectations unreasonable?

Using a test circuit called TraceTest I've installed nine SM1206 resistor
footprints and connected them in series using trace widths ranging from
0.018" to 0.042".   I convert the Gerber to GCode with the following command
line:

pcb2gcode --front TraceTest-Front.gbr --zsafe 0.08  --zchange 1 --mill-feed
6 --zwork -0.08 --offset 0.002 --mill-speed 20000

Even though the Gerber files were produced by specifying a 0.004" bit, a
0.004" insulating band, pcb2gcode insists on retracing the board a second
time.  After a first pass, a 0.042" wide trace remains but only about 0.010"
wide.  The second pass obliterates the traces and the pads.  I either do not
understand the offset attribute or my spindle is simply a POS.

I do not see an attribute for bit size.  Only the -offset, which I've set at
0.002" (half the bit size)  It seems the second pass enlarges the insulation
by taking part of the trace. I experimented a little with a negative offset
and saw no real difference.

If someone could help me diagnose my issues, I appreciate it.

Ford

Well,

In fact I discovered that a line smoother is already implemented in pcb2gcode, but an if(0) prevents its operation. Perhaps your code is not useful then.

I am playing with the smoother. It is very interesting. Now I try to improve path calculation, because vertical and horizontal lines are processed well, but rounds and obliques show some aberrations.
I also implemented a gerber output in order to compare original gerbers with the tool path.
I will ask write permissions on git after it is stable, and before winter.

SY

Lionel

Le 12 oct. 2012 à 10:51, fritz a écrit :

> I'm glad somebody took a look at my code, but I have to humbly admit 
> it's not a flawless implementation.
> 
> I haven't done anything with pcb2gcode since then.  I had a lot of free 
> time back then, and I made a small handful of circuit boards on my Taig 
> CNC mill.  Now I have almost no free time due to work, which I expect to 
> continue for another couple months.
> 
> Although I currently lack time and interest, I've been continuing to 
> improve my C++ and linux programming skills.  I expect my interest in 
> this project will come back around again, when I'm not working during 
> the snowy winter months, and I'm back out in my own workshop.
> 
> If I do anything with my patch code at a later date, it will be to more 
> closely examine the differences between it and the Python version (in 
> the LinuxCNC codebase) that I was trying to emulate, and try to make my 
> version work as smoothly.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> _______________________________________________
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> Pcb...@li...
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I'm glad somebody took a look at my code, but I have to humbly admit 
it's not a flawless implementation.

I haven't done anything with pcb2gcode since then.  I had a lot of free 
time back then, and I made a small handful of circuit boards on my Taig 
CNC mill.  Now I have almost no free time due to work, which I expect to 
continue for another couple months.

Although I currently lack time and interest, I've been continuing to 
improve my C++ and linux programming skills.  I expect my interest in 
this project will come back around again, when I'm not working during 
the snowy winter months, and I'm back out in my own workshop.

If I do anything with my patch code at a later date, it will be to more 
closely examine the differences between it and the Python version (in 
the LinuxCNC codebase) that I was trying to emulate, and try to make my 
version work as smoothly.

Hi,

the problem is I've been unable to do anything that takes more than 5
minutes for this project in the last year, so we don't have any active
project members left.

I'd be very happy if anyone wanted to join officially for git access
etc. or even take over the project, just mail me your sourceforge
username or send a request to join on the SF page.

Patrick

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 11:29:16 +0200
Lionel Sainte Cluque <lio...@gm...> wrote:

> Dear all
> 
> I tried fritz patch. It works well. I did some improvements on milldrill as
> the legacy code does not work for me, and I added some (little but) usefull
> features like printing the dimensions and surface of the pcb.
> 
> There are others improvements I would like to do but I am surprised of the
> silence on the mailing list. The project seems active though.
> I am interested in adding a configuration file. This is an important topic
> and I would like to discuss it prior to action. Is that possible? What is
> the way to get involved in this project?
> 
> Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE
> adresse:
> 1, rue Paul de KOCK
> 92500 Rueil Malmaison
> Téléphone +33 (0)6 18 04 20 75
> 
> 
> 2012/5/27 fritz <fri...@gm...>
> 
> > Since I don't have push authorization - and I've no clue as to how active
> > things are on this project, I'm just going to include my git-diff patch
> > here.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Live Security Virtual Conference
> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list
> > Pcb...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel
> >
> >

Dear all

I tried fritz patch. It works well. I did some improvements on milldrill as
the legacy code does not work for me, and I added some (little but) usefull
features like printing the dimensions and surface of the pcb.

There are others improvements I would like to do but I am surprised of the
silence on the mailing list. The project seems active though.
I am interested in adding a configuration file. This is an important topic
and I would like to discuss it prior to action. Is that possible? What is
the way to get involved in this project?

Lionel SAINTE CLUQUE
adresse:
1, rue Paul de KOCK
92500 Rueil Malmaison
Téléphone +33 (0)6 18 04 20 75

2012/5/27 fritz <fri...@gm...>

> Since I don't have push authorization - and I've no clue as to how active
> things are on this project, I'm just going to include my git-diff patch
> here.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Pcb2gcode-devel mailing list
> Pcb...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pcb2gcode-devel
>
>

Hi

I am trying to download source code.
When i do this...git clone hangs..it do not gets complete.

Before 2-3 days i was able to successfully clone it.

Can anybody tell why this problem is happening?

Thanks
Gaurav Agarwal

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