.. tested a windows 7 32bit,
because the PAGE environment shoult run (and did run) on arbitrary machines.
Problem - PAGE 5.4 startup failed, see error message attached.
Maybe this post is related to Greg Walters prev. post "only Win64?"
I used different Tcl-Environments, but not on ActiveTcl,
because they stopped Win32 support mit Tcl 8.6.4
till PAGE 5.3
I used succesfull this 32bit TclTk Environments: Bawt TCL 8.6.9 KitKreators TCL 8.6.7
I think it is not a Win64 problem.
At least such it should notbe a Win64 dependence problem,
at least such tiny (year 2020) Softwarepackages with a small needance on resources should not need to run only on supercomputers.
Thx Don for your active engagements!
I love your PAGE tool
... "should not need to run only on supercomputers."
I mean, PAGE should run on every basic machine,
where TclTK ist installed, or can done installed:
e.g. @ all the 32bit processor machines, which run a Linux
e.g. @ Raspberry Pi, (my last Raspi 3b ~yr2018) also had 64 bit processors, but run a 32bit OS.
e.g. @ PAGE should run on every Windows machine, where TclTk can run.
____ to avoid a less appealing "non-Win32 " PAGE "feature".
Yes. this here is maybe a bit a different request: [ ] my prev. post I targeted the startup problem since PAGE 5.4 on my basic WinMachines.
[x] this post targets the "PAGE @ only Win64" discussion (which may be related to my primary problem - the paragraph above, and my prev post.
Thank you very much for your attention!
Johannes Huter
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
First off, I never said that PAGE would only run on Windows 64.
PAGE runs on Mac0S, Linux, Windows 10 and Raspberry Pi.
The issue is that Page relys on Tcl/Tk 8.6. If you only have a 32 bit machine running ANY operating system you will have issues since MOST of the maintainers of Tcl/Tk have stopped supporting 32 bit machines. In fact, most of the Linux distributions don't support 32 bit machines anymore.
It is not Don's fault, nor is it mine, that Active state has decided to no longer support the 32 bit machines. Until recently, there were four distributions out there that supported Tcl on 32 bit machines. ActiveState fairly recently has dropped all support of 32 bit machines. BAWT until a few months ago supported Tcl/Tk on 32 bit machines. I checked their website a week or so and they have removed any links to 32 bit software. Magicsplat STILL (as of this last weekend) does have a 32 bit distribution available. IronTcl says that their software still supports 32 bit machines.
I'm not sure why you are railing so hard on the fact that PAGE requires Tcl 8.6 It is heads and above a great step forward version 8.5.
Your statement that a 64 bit machine is a supercomputer is wrong on so many ways. It is simply the fact that more and more users want faster performance in their computers and the PC manufacturers have decided that they will only make 64 bit computers. Microsoft has announced that they will no longer release OEM software for 64 bit machines. Ubuntu is no longer supporting 32 bit machines. Linux Mint is no longer supporting 32 bit machines. The world moves forward. Computer manufactures move forward. Software developers move forward.
As far as I can see you STILL have options to run PAGE with Tcl 32-bit.
1) Download and install Magicsplat TCL 32 bit.
2) Download and install IronTCL 32 bit
3) Run a Raspberry Pi 32 bit. Their distribution runs on 32 bit and the Tcl/Tk runs fine.
Do not bash Don for moving forward to a better TCL distribution that a few of the vendors deciced to drop support for 32-bit machines. If you want to rail against someone, rail against ActiveState and BAWT. THEY are the ones that are creating the issue that you are having by dropping support for 32 bit machines. Not Don and certainly not ME. I just try to help people around the problems that they are having and provide possible solutions for those problems. You also could try to take your case to the maintainers of Tcl/Tk. You can find their website at https://www.tcl.tk/ and they have links to the actual source code that you could compile yourself if you don't want to deal with any other versions available.
I just double checked the BAWT website and they say they have a 32 bit version of Tck/Tk as well.
So there is yet another option for you.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Sorry Greg Walter,
I beg to apologize my words i and formulations n my posts. I am a native German speaker.
I'm not sure why you are railing so hard ...
It is me that I do always put into slight warning appeals in an (very!) into my declarations.
(And I often do it in an ironic, sarcastic way.
whatever. It's my fault.
My talking friends always complain about me, because of this)
Do not bash Don for moving forward to a better TCL distribution
that a few of the vendors deciced to drop support for 32-bit machines.
No, I did not bash.
My predominant summaries in my posts was:
Thx Don for your active engagements!
I love your PAGE tool
But yes, I have a really request.
Sorry Greg Walter, maybe you hear tiniest tunes in a feisty way.
<ignore paragraph="">
( ( Maybe it's on you, that you hear ironic/sarcastic tunes. Maybe always - maybe you? ) )
</ignore>
But it's positive.
And Sometimes it' not positive.
But yes, I started this thread with an request,
I had an important question:
... because ...
till PAGE 5.3 I had no problem with the PAGE usage
I started using PAGE sind PAGE 4.23
Since 5.4 I have a problem, see attachement (I reattach it)
Dear Donald Rozenberg.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I use your Software very much:
I am an instructor in an technical highschool in Innsbruck/Tyrol/Austria:
PAGE is a big help for us instructors and us students!
Don. this question:
What does this mean, since PAGE 5.4 (not PAGE 5.3 or earlier),
see my attachment.
Use hhuter(at)gmail.com if you want to give me a feedback, which needs not to belong to this forum.
(Yes, Don Rozenberg: from 1999 - the Windows UTF-8 discussion on:
You already have my email adress in your personal contact list.
"Steffen" then, he did the biggest help for you to make the PAGE 4.26 Windows UTF-8 ready)
Greg Walters - 2020-08-04
...
Unfortunately, those who distribute any software that is no longer supporting
32 bit machines, don't seem to realize just how many 32 bit machines are still out there.
Just my two cents: Exactly!
Another citation from Greg Walters in this thread:
Your statement that a 64 bit machine is a supercomputer is wrong on so many ways. It is simply the fact that more and more users want faster performance in their computers.
Not really. SW engineers do plugin the opposite way:
"No 64 bit supercomputers with 64GB are needed for my 10 MB tool, which handles 1MB data"
Hannes
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Anonymous
Anonymous
-
2020-08-20
Dear Greg,
About your last private email, my reply:
a) Which TCL interpreters you use? The specific download source?
see attachement. I must use this forum, because for filesharing.
(My gmail account forbids me to attach arbitrary files (gmail states: "insecure").
ad a): Take a look into the __ __TCL\ folder!
I can alternatively use one of the both interpreters (both are supplied within attachement)
a) Kitcreator or
b) BAWT
With this attachement settlement, the BAWT TCL-interpreter portable it is settled.
Launch PAGE with my "Win-Page.cmd".
But just modify the last command of Win-PAGE, to launch YOUR _installed _TCL.
You can also use your original supplied "winpage.bat", if you want.
My Problems started with PAGE 5.4:
On my Win32 Windows 7:
.. the PAGE 5.3 works with both interpreters, since PAGE 4.25 on. Without any problem.
. since PAGE 5.4 the naked/empty PAGE startup fails (with usage of both of my used iTCL interpreters)
and even it fails, even with the BAWT interpreter is just "normally" installed and launched
(even it fails, if I use the 10 times more sized "Batteries included" version of the BAWT TCL-Tk)
b) And no: for testing my Windows 10 64bit PC with regulary installed 64 TCL interpreters:
...
I need another week, because other tasks are to do for me.
I will give you a feedback then.
.. tested a windows 7 32bit,
because the PAGE environment shoult run (and did run) on arbitrary machines.
Problem - PAGE 5.4 startup failed, see error message attached.
Maybe this post is related to Greg Walters prev. post "only Win64?"
I used different Tcl-Environments, but not on ActiveTcl,
because they stopped Win32 support mit Tcl 8.6.4
till PAGE 5.3
I used succesfull this 32bit TclTk Environments:
Bawt TCL 8.6.9
KitKreators TCL 8.6.7
I think it is not a Win64 problem.
At least such it should notbe a Win64 dependence problem,
at least such tiny (year 2020) Softwarepackages with a small needance on resources should not need to run only on supercomputers.
Thx Don for your active engagements!
I love your PAGE tool
Johannes Huter
... "should not need to run only on supercomputers."
I mean, PAGE should run on every basic machine,
where TclTK ist installed, or can done installed:
e.g. @ all the 32bit processor machines, which run a Linux
e.g. @ Raspberry Pi, (my last Raspi 3b ~yr2018) also had 64 bit processors, but run a 32bit OS.
e.g. @ PAGE should run on every Windows machine, where TclTk can run.
____ to avoid a less appealing "non-Win32 " PAGE "feature".
Yes. this here is maybe a bit a different request:
[ ] my prev. post I targeted the startup problem since PAGE 5.4 on my basic WinMachines.
[x] this post targets the "PAGE @ only Win64" discussion (which may be related to my primary problem - the paragraph above, and my prev post.
Thank you very much for your attention!
Johannes Huter
First off, I never said that PAGE would only run on Windows 64.
PAGE runs on Mac0S, Linux, Windows 10 and Raspberry Pi.
The issue is that Page relys on Tcl/Tk 8.6. If you only have a 32 bit machine running ANY operating system you will have issues since MOST of the maintainers of Tcl/Tk have stopped supporting 32 bit machines. In fact, most of the Linux distributions don't support 32 bit machines anymore.
It is not Don's fault, nor is it mine, that Active state has decided to no longer support the 32 bit machines. Until recently, there were four distributions out there that supported Tcl on 32 bit machines. ActiveState fairly recently has dropped all support of 32 bit machines. BAWT until a few months ago supported Tcl/Tk on 32 bit machines. I checked their website a week or so and they have removed any links to 32 bit software. Magicsplat STILL (as of this last weekend) does have a 32 bit distribution available. IronTcl says that their software still supports 32 bit machines.
I'm not sure why you are railing so hard on the fact that PAGE requires Tcl 8.6 It is heads and above a great step forward version 8.5.
Your statement that a 64 bit machine is a supercomputer is wrong on so many ways. It is simply the fact that more and more users want faster performance in their computers and the PC manufacturers have decided that they will only make 64 bit computers. Microsoft has announced that they will no longer release OEM software for 64 bit machines. Ubuntu is no longer supporting 32 bit machines. Linux Mint is no longer supporting 32 bit machines. The world moves forward. Computer manufactures move forward. Software developers move forward.
As far as I can see you STILL have options to run PAGE with Tcl 32-bit.
1) Download and install Magicsplat TCL 32 bit.
2) Download and install IronTCL 32 bit
3) Run a Raspberry Pi 32 bit. Their distribution runs on 32 bit and the Tcl/Tk runs fine.
Do not bash Don for moving forward to a better TCL distribution that a few of the vendors deciced to drop support for 32-bit machines. If you want to rail against someone, rail against ActiveState and BAWT. THEY are the ones that are creating the issue that you are having by dropping support for 32 bit machines. Not Don and certainly not ME. I just try to help people around the problems that they are having and provide possible solutions for those problems. You also could try to take your case to the maintainers of Tcl/Tk. You can find their website at https://www.tcl.tk/ and they have links to the actual source code that you could compile yourself if you don't want to deal with any other versions available.
I just double checked the BAWT website and they say they have a 32 bit version of Tck/Tk as well.
So there is yet another option for you.
Sorry Greg Walter,
I beg to apologize my words i and formulations n my posts. I am a native German speaker.
It is me that I do always put into slight warning appeals in an (very!) into my declarations.
(And I often do it in an ironic, sarcastic way.
whatever. It's my fault.
My talking friends always complain about me, because of this)
No, I did not bash.
My predominant summaries in my posts was:
But yes, I have a really request.
Sorry Greg Walter, maybe you hear tiniest tunes in a feisty way.
<ignore paragraph="">
( ( Maybe it's on you, that you hear ironic/sarcastic tunes. Maybe always - maybe you? ) )
</ignore>
But it's positive.
And Sometimes it' not positive.
But yes, I started this thread with an request,
I had an important question:
... because ...
till PAGE 5.3 I had no problem with the PAGE usage
I started using PAGE sind PAGE 4.23
Since 5.4 I have a problem, see attachement (I reattach it)
Dear Donald Rozenberg.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I use your Software very much:
I am an instructor in an technical highschool in Innsbruck/Tyrol/Austria:
PAGE is a big help for us instructors and us students!
Don. this question:
What does this mean, since PAGE 5.4 (not PAGE 5.3 or earlier),
see my attachment.
Use hhuter(at)gmail.com if you want to give me a feedback, which needs not to belong to this forum.
(Yes, Don Rozenberg: from 1999 - the Windows UTF-8 discussion on:
You already have my email adress in your personal contact list.
"Steffen" then, he did the biggest help for you to make the PAGE 4.26 Windows UTF-8 ready)
Thx and good luck
Johannes Huter
Sorry Greg Walters,
it's my mind what you posted:
Just my two cents: Exactly!
Another citation from Greg Walters in this thread:
Not really. SW engineers do plugin the opposite way:
"No 64 bit supercomputers with 64GB are needed for my 10 MB tool, which handles 1MB data"
Hannes
Dear Greg,
About your last private email, my reply:
a) Which TCL interpreters you use? The specific download source?
see attachement. I must use this forum, because for filesharing.
(My gmail account forbids me to attach arbitrary files (gmail states: "insecure").
ad a): Take a look into the __ __TCL\ folder!
I can alternatively use one of the both interpreters (both are supplied within attachement)
a) Kitcreator or
b) BAWT
With this attachement settlement, the BAWT TCL-interpreter portable it is settled.
Launch PAGE with my "Win-Page.cmd".
But just modify the last command of Win-PAGE, to launch YOUR _installed _TCL.
You can also use your original supplied "winpage.bat", if you want.
My Problems started with PAGE 5.4:
On my Win32 Windows 7:
.. the PAGE 5.3 works with both interpreters, since PAGE 4.25 on. Without any problem.
. since PAGE 5.4 the naked/empty PAGE startup fails (with usage of both of my used iTCL interpreters)
and even it fails, even with the BAWT interpreter is just "normally" installed and launched
(even it fails, if I use the 10 times more sized "Batteries included" version of the BAWT TCL-Tk)
b) And no: for testing my Windows 10 64bit PC with regulary installed 64 TCL interpreters:
...
I need another week, because other tasks are to do for me.
I will give you a feedback then.
Thanks Greg for guidance
Hannes