openxdk-cxbx-devel

[openxdk-cxbx-devel] First time to OpenXDK

[Mark B. <mar...@ya...>]

I just joined the mailing list for the OpenXDK project
and had a few questions for anyone on the project:

1. How active is the OpenXDK project? It seems very
slow from what I can see. This is surprising because I
think it's a great idea and would expect a lot of
interest so maybe I'm missing something?

2. Is there much crossover from the XBox Linux
project? I'm assuming that OpenGL is running on the
Linux version and wonder why it hasn't been ported
over to the OpenXDK?

3. This is more technical than general. I'm new to the
project and XBox programming in general, but have many
years experience working for game companies and other
places. I know DirectX pretty much inside and out. The
question is, how is DirectX implemented on the XBox?
Is it statically linked into programs now or is it
embedded in the xboxdash.xbe or even in the BIOs (god
forbid)? 

4. If DirectX is not statically linked in with the MS
XDK, then does does anyone know how to call into it?
I'm assuming this isn't the case or you would be doing
it. This brings up the question also  of the legality
of statically linking in from some DirectX.lib or the
DLL's. There must be the XBox GeForce version of
DirectX floating around, but is it publicly available
from NVidia or even legal to use if one could find it?

5. It would certainly be easier for me personally to
use the native XBox version of Windows, but I'm
wondering if maybe it wouldn't make more sense to just
bite the bullet and go with Linux. I've used GCC
although VC++ 6.0 is more familiar. Mainly I want to
do something useful with my XBox sooner rather than
later. In particular I want to do stuff that requires
realtime behaviour like the XBox Windows has and Linux
doesn't as far as I know. OpenXDK is more attractive
for this reason, but XBox Linux is more complete
AFAIK. So can anyone share thoughts?

6. OK, #5 was really a couple of questions so put half
here :)

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Mark

RE: [openxdk-cxbx-devel] First time to OpenXDK

[Johan S. <st...@ka...>]

Hi Mark,

AFAIK there is no way to program realtime 3d graphics on the xbox (yet)
without the official Microsoft SDK which is unavailable for guys like us.

OpenGL in Linux is working but too slow to be of any practical use (at least
AFAIK)

OpenXDK doesn't aim at 3d, only 2d graphics for the moment

Like you, I would be able to just code some realtime graphics on
the Xbox, be it OpenGL, or Direct X

Greetings,

Johan Stolk

-----Original Message-----
From: ope...@li...
[mailto:ope...@li...]On Behalf Of Mark
Boettcher
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 03:48
To: ope...@li...
Subject: [openxdk-cxbx-devel] First time to OpenXDK


I just joined the mailing list for the OpenXDK project
and had a few questions for anyone on the project:

1. How active is the OpenXDK project? It seems very
slow from what I can see. This is surprising because I
think it's a great idea and would expect a lot of
interest so maybe I'm missing something?

2. Is there much crossover from the XBox Linux
project? I'm assuming that OpenGL is running on the
Linux version and wonder why it hasn't been ported
over to the OpenXDK?

3. This is more technical than general. I'm new to the
project and XBox programming in general, but have many
years experience working for game companies and other
places. I know DirectX pretty much inside and out. The
question is, how is DirectX implemented on the XBox?
Is it statically linked into programs now or is it
embedded in the xboxdash.xbe or even in the BIOs (god
forbid)?

4. If DirectX is not statically linked in with the MS
XDK, then does does anyone know how to call into it?
I'm assuming this isn't the case or you would be doing
it. This brings up the question also  of the legality
of statically linking in from some DirectX.lib or the
DLL's. There must be the XBox GeForce version of
DirectX floating around, but is it publicly available
from NVidia or even legal to use if one could find it?

5. It would certainly be easier for me personally to
use the native XBox version of Windows, but I'm
wondering if maybe it wouldn't make more sense to just
bite the bullet and go with Linux. I've used GCC
although VC++ 6.0 is more familiar. Mainly I want to
do something useful with my XBox sooner rather than
later. In particular I want to do stuff that requires
realtime behaviour like the XBox Windows has and Linux
doesn't as far as I know. OpenXDK is more attractive
for this reason, but XBox Linux is more complete
AFAIK. So can anyone share thoughts?

6. OK, #5 was really a couple of questions so put half
here :)

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Mark




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RE: [openxdk-cxbx-devel] First time to OpenXDK

[Mark B. <mar...@ya...>]

Hi Johan,

Thanks for the *only* reply I got. The fact that this
was the only response pretty much locks up the
decision to go with Linux. How ironic, now I'm using
OpenGL on Windows XP in my day job and Linux at night.

To be honest, if it was fast 3D graphics I wanted I'd
just do it with Direct3D on my TI-4600 in my desktop.
What I'm really after is realtime audio signal
processing in a portable console. The XBox is very
attractive to me because of the HD and super-duper
audio chip. It would be great to use the XBox OS which
can be used for realtime (unlike every other Windows
OS since DOS and excluding the latest CE).

I know Linux has low-latency patches, but I'll
probably have to dig up one of those realtime wrappers
that get first crack at irqs before passing them them
on to the Linux irq handlers.

Getting back to OpenGL on the XBox. It's my
understanding that NVidia has release OpenGL drivers
for Linux. Is that not true for the XBox flavor of the
GEForce? If they have, then is it open sourced? If so
then why not grab it and recompile for OpenXDK? Since
you say it hasn't been done I'm assuming that this
isn't the case.

Do you know how DX is implemented on the XBox? I'm
assuming that it's statically linked using the MS XDK.
It should be possible, *not* trivial, but possible to
reverse engineer a couple of commercial games and find
the DirectX calls, disassemble them, and make the C
code. Also, where does the NVidia driver live? Is it
part of that big .xbe file in c:\? Or somewhere else?

Cheers,

Mark


--- Johan Stolk <st...@ka...> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> AFAIK there is no way to program realtime 3d
> graphics on the xbox (yet)
> without the official Microsoft SDK which is
> unavailable for guys like us.
> 
> OpenGL in Linux is working but too slow to be of any
> practical use (at least
> AFAIK)
> 
> OpenXDK doesn't aim at 3d, only 2d graphics for the
> moment
> 
> Like you, I would be able to just code some realtime
> graphics on
> the Xbox, be it OpenGL, or Direct X
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Johan Stolk
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ope...@li...
>
[mailto:ope...@li...]On
> Behalf Of Mark
> Boettcher
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 03:48
> To: ope...@li...
> Subject: [openxdk-cxbx-devel] First time to OpenXDK
> 
> 
> I just joined the mailing list for the OpenXDK
> project
> and had a few questions for anyone on the project:
> 
> 1. How active is the OpenXDK project? It seems very
> slow from what I can see. This is surprising because
> I
> think it's a great idea and would expect a lot of
> interest so maybe I'm missing something?
> 
> 2. Is there much crossover from the XBox Linux
> project? I'm assuming that OpenGL is running on the
> Linux version and wonder why it hasn't been ported
> over to the OpenXDK?
> 
> 3. This is more technical than general. I'm new to
> the
> project and XBox programming in general, but have
> many
> years experience working for game companies and
> other
> places. I know DirectX pretty much inside and out.
> The
> question is, how is DirectX implemented on the XBox?
> Is it statically linked into programs now or is it
> embedded in the xboxdash.xbe or even in the BIOs
> (god
> forbid)?
> 
> 4. If DirectX is not statically linked in with the
> MS
> XDK, then does does anyone know how to call into it?
> I'm assuming this isn't the case or you would be
> doing
> it. This brings up the question also  of the
> legality
> of statically linking in from some DirectX.lib or
> the
> DLL's. There must be the XBox GeForce version of
> DirectX floating around, but is it publicly
> available
> from NVidia or even legal to use if one could find
> it?
> 
> 5. It would certainly be easier for me personally to
> use the native XBox version of Windows, but I'm
> wondering if maybe it wouldn't make more sense to
> just
> bite the bullet and go with Linux. I've used GCC
> although VC++ 6.0 is more familiar. Mainly I want to
> do something useful with my XBox sooner rather than
> later. In particular I want to do stuff that
> requires
> realtime behaviour like the XBox Windows has and
> Linux
> doesn't as far as I know. OpenXDK is more attractive
> for this reason, but XBox Linux is more complete
> AFAIK. So can anyone share thoughts?
> 
> 6. OK, #5 was really a couple of questions so put
> half
> here :)
> 
> Thanks in advance for any answers.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> openxdk-cxbx-devel mailing list
> ope...@li...
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openxdk-cxbx-devel
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> openxdk-cxbx-devel mailing list
> ope...@li...
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openxdk-cxbx-devel

RE: [openxdk-cxbx-devel] First time to OpenXDK

[Johan S. <st...@ka...>]

-----Original Message-----
From: ope...@li...
[mailto:ope...@li...]On Behalf Of Mark
Boettcher
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 23:54
To: st...@ka...; ope...@li...
Subject: RE: [openxdk-cxbx-devel] First time to OpenXDK


Hi Johan,

Thanks for the *only* reply I got. The fact that this
was the only response pretty much locks up the
decision to go with Linux. How ironic, now I'm using
OpenGL on Windows XP in my day job and Linux at night

< Hey Mark,

< Yeah, the openxdk 'community' doesn't seem very active to me either

----8<----

Getting back to OpenGL on the XBox. It's my
understanding that NVidia has release OpenGL drivers
for Linux. Is that not true for the XBox flavor of the
GEForce? If they have, then is it open sourced? If so

< probably not open source I assume

then why not grab it and recompile for OpenXDK? Since
you say it hasn't been done I'm assuming that this
isn't the case.

Do you know how DX is implemented on the XBox? I'm
assuming that it's statically linked using the MS XDK.
It should be possible, *not* trivial, but possible to
reverse engineer a couple of commercial games and find
the DirectX calls, disassemble them, and make the C
code. Also, where does the NVidia driver live? Is it
part of that big .xbe file in c:\? Or somewhere else?

< Sorry, can't help you with this...

< Good luck,

< Johan

Cheers,

Mark


--- Johan Stolk <st...@ka...> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> AFAIK there is no way to program realtime 3d
> graphics on the xbox (yet)
> without the official Microsoft SDK which is
> unavailable for guys like us.
> 
> OpenGL in Linux is working but too slow to be of any
> practical use (at least
> AFAIK)
> 
> OpenXDK doesn't aim at 3d, only 2d graphics for the
> moment
> 
> Like you, I would be able to just code some realtime
> graphics on
> the Xbox, be it OpenGL, or Direct X
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Johan Stolk
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ope...@li...
>
[mailto:ope...@li...]On
> Behalf Of Mark
> Boettcher
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 03:48
> To: ope...@li...
> Subject: [openxdk-cxbx-devel] First time to OpenXDK
> 
> 
> I just joined the mailing list for the OpenXDK
> project
> and had a few questions for anyone on the project:
> 
> 1. How active is the OpenXDK project? It seems very
> slow from what I can see. This is surprising because
> I
> think it's a great idea and would expect a lot of
> interest so maybe I'm missing something?
> 
> 2. Is there much crossover from the XBox Linux
> project? I'm assuming that OpenGL is running on the
> Linux version and wonder why it hasn't been ported
> over to the OpenXDK?
> 
> 3. This is more technical than general. I'm new to
> the
> project and XBox programming in general, but have
> many
> years experience working for game companies and
> other
> places. I know DirectX pretty much inside and out.
> The
> question is, how is DirectX implemented on the XBox?
> Is it statically linked into programs now or is it
> embedded in the xboxdash.xbe or even in the BIOs
> (god
> forbid)?
> 
> 4. If DirectX is not statically linked in with the
> MS
> XDK, then does does anyone know how to call into it?
> I'm assuming this isn't the case or you would be
> doing
> it. This brings up the question also  of the
> legality
> of statically linking in from some DirectX.lib or
> the
> DLL's. There must be the XBox GeForce version of
> DirectX floating around, but is it publicly
> available
> from NVidia or even legal to use if one could find
> it?
> 
> 5. It would certainly be easier for me personally to
> use the native XBox version of Windows, but I'm
> wondering if maybe it wouldn't make more sense to
> just
> bite the bullet and go with Linux. I've used GCC
> although VC++ 6.0 is more familiar. Mainly I want to
> do something useful with my XBox sooner rather than
> later. In particular I want to do stuff that
> requires
> realtime behaviour like the XBox Windows has and
> Linux
> doesn't as far as I know. OpenXDK is more attractive
> for this reason, but XBox Linux is more complete
> AFAIK. So can anyone share thoughts?
> 
> 6. OK, #5 was really a couple of questions so put
> half
> here :)
> 
> Thanks in advance for any answers.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> openxdk-cxbx-devel mailing list
> ope...@li...
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openxdk-cxbx-devel
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> openxdk-cxbx-devel mailing list
> ope...@li...
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openxdk-cxbx-devel



-------------------------------------------------------
This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
Welcome to geek heaven.
http://thinkgeek.com/sf
_______________________________________________
openxdk-cxbx-devel mailing list
ope...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openxdk-cxbx-devel