[WWdevel] Fwd: Introduction

[Michael G. <ga...@ma...>]

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Michael Gage <ga...@ma...>
> Date: June 12, 2010 11:32:14 AM EDT
> To: Djun Kim <dju...@ma...>
> Cc: Michael Gage <ga...@ma...>, "vr...@ad... Roth" <vr...@Ad...>, Arnold Pizer <ap...@ma...>, Michael Pearson <pe...@ma...>, Jason Aubrey <aub...@gm...>, Stephen DeSanto <sde...@ma...>, Davide Cervone <dp...@un...>, John Wyatt <jw...@ma...>, Nick Rogers <ro...@ma...>, David Gage <why...@gm...>, Gavin LaRose <gl...@um...>, ope...@li..., "Gregory R. Warnes" <gre...@ro...>
> Subject: Re: [WWdevel] Introduction
> 
> Hi Djun,
> 
> This sounds like very interesting work that you have been doing.
> Working on the UI is particularly helpful since the last time we had someone
> working full time on user interface issues was probably 5 or 6 years ago
> when Robert Van Dam ( a student at Rochester, then went to BYU for graduate
> school and is now gainfully employed (I hope :-) )  )   constructed the 
> instructor interface.  The technology has advanced enormously since then.
> At the time we avoided javaScript as much as possible since not every browser
> could handle it and every browser did it differently.  Now, with the exception of the 
> older MSIE browsers, javaScript has become pretty standardized and very useful and 
> it's past time that WeBWorK was updated to take advantage of it.
> 
> The user interface balancing parens will be particularly useful for students.
> 
> A. On the problem editing page I have several comments:
> 1. Judging from the picture on your blog you are using the PGProblemEditor from the rel-2-4-patches
> release.  You might want to update to the HEAD release for your additions  
> (use   cvs update -dAP 
> to remove all sticky tags, get the latest versions of the files and allow new directories to be build if needed.)
> 
> I made several minor improvements to the editor "save" interface that made it easier for me to create new questions.
> Of course there is much more that could be done with this user interface.  I've been focusing on getting
> better access to the language documentation.  If your CodeMirror package has auto-completion facilities
> that would be a very interesting addition.
> 
> 2. Are you aware of the firefox plugin "It's all text"?  Using that, or something similar, you can export a text area region
> to your favorite editor (I'm on a mac most of the time so I have been using BBedit), edit the code there (where syntax highlighting
> is available) and then saving back to the text area.  It makes save a two step process but it works well enough that I didn't
> feel too much pressure to upgrade the problem editor for my own personal use.
> 
> 3. A few weeks ago I did reorganize and upgrade a commandline stand alone editor which uses the webservice feature of 
> the editor.  It's in   /webwork2/clients/renderProblem.pl  (the HEAD version) with a support file at  /webwork2/lib/WebworkClient.pm.
> As it stands it is pointed at the hosted2.webwork.rochester.edu  site, for rendering the problem, but you could point it at any site
> running the HEAD version.  The common code in WebworkClient.pm is used in the client  renderProblem.pl and also in a web 
> version of the client defined at   lib/WeBWorK/ContentGenerator/renderViaXMLRPC.pm.  
> 
> Basically renderProblem.pm takes a WeBWorK question text from STDIN on the command line, sends it to be rendered and then
> fires up a local browser to read the result.  I use it as a filter on BBedit to immediately render a problem I am working on. 
> 
> You'll want to look at the first couple of lines of code in renderProblem.pl since there a few constants that will need to be set for your
> environment.  There isn't much documentation yet and there are probably still a few tweaks that will make it easier to install
> and use.   Let me know how it works for you.
> 
> B. As to including your additions into the main WeBWorK code repository.  We're more than delighted to do this.  We are, as I write this, in the 
> process of switching over from the CVS repository system at U. of Rochester  to using an SVN system installed on the servers at
> MAA.  Jason Aubrey at U. of Missouri has been leading this.  I have a local svn version checked out and it seems to be working well so far.  
> I think that next week we will be writing HOWTO documents for developers to start using the SVN system and if you are willing
> you can be one of our first test cases.  I've been quite satisfied with CVS for the clients and anonymous downloads but it can be
> a bit clumsy keeping both production and development versions organized and constructing new releases.  We did a lot of 
> backporting by hand.  I'm hoping we can learn to use SVN more efficiently.  I looked at GIT a few years ago, but it while it seemed really
> excellent for development  -- one of it's strong points seemed to be that there are multiple repositories which are easily shared.  Since
> one point of the repository at MAA is to keep an authoritative version of WeBWorK available for those who are not particularly adventurous
> we've gone with SVN for now at least.  Jason has been able to make it integrate well with mediaWiki and should be completing the process this week.
> 
> C.  The question of how to maintain a question library (NationaProblemLibrary) is still pretty much up in the air.  It could be that 
> a GIT repository system might be more appropriate for that since the balance between having a central repository and being able
> to produce and share created problems is quite different for questions, and even for macro files, than it is for the core WeBWorK 
> code.  I'd be interested in your ideas on this -- I certainly have a lot to learn about the various ways of managing code.  The bigger
> problem with the question library is on the social organization side -- how do we get questions edited, rated, advertised, coordinated
> with textbooks, metadata added and maintained   and so forth.
> 
> D.  Back to the UI for instructors and the possibilities of AJAX type upgrades.  I think the Library Browser (and the Homework detail editor) page
> might benefit particularly from this.  Make a page where one could display the contents of the library more easily (at the very least use 
> a widget to make the drop down menu for the NPL directory hierarchical ).  Ideally one should be able to drag and drop library questions from
> one panel into a second panel which is your homework set.  You should also be able to drag and drop to rearrange the 
> order of homework problems in your homework set.  (Homework set detail was close to state of the art when it was written, many years ago,
> but the tools available have changed enormously.)  This is not a small project, but it's isolated from much of the rest of WeBWorK code.
> 
> E. Another UI feature, which I have researched some, but not gotten started on, is to add tooltips to the equations -- I have done the easiest thing using the title attribute--
> namely that if you look at Answer Preview for say the problem https://hosted2.webwork.rochester.edu/webwork2/maa104/Demo/3/
> and hover over the typeset answer, you'll see the original string that was entered.  (This means we don't need the "entered" box -- it isn't much
> used anyway since the answers are sticky in the answer blanks.) I could do the same with "Correct Answer" -- namely print the 
> typeset version to the screen and have a tooltip for the TI83 entry code, however instructors often want to copy the "Correct Answer" 
> and place it into the answer blank to test a problem -- this can't be done using the simple "tooltip" created by using the  title attribute (as far as I can tell)
> However -- there are more extensive tooltip libraries available that would allow one to do something like:  have all formulas on the screen be typeset --
> by hovering over one you get a tooltip representation of the input code -- you can copy that code representation for use in pasting into an 
> answer blank.  My quick research into the subject seemed to indicate that the tooltip library created by Walter Zorn  (his site seems to be off 
> the air but I found a cache of it at http://web.archive.org/web/20080103025434/www.walterzorn.com/index.htm ) is among the best
> and most widely respected.  It might have other uses besides the one I described above.  I haven't started studying it yet but 
> I will let you know if I do -- if you start working with it, or know of a better tooltip implementation please let me know so that we don't duplicate effort.
> 
> F. Blackboard/Vista integration.  If you haven't started on this yet, I suggest that you hold off for a few days.  The local IT people at U of Rochester
> hired a student, Martin Georgiev, to accomplish single sign on and gradebook integration between blackboard and WeBWorK -- similar to the integration I have working between Moodle and WeBWorK.  They had a working development version but didn't get a production package created (and then the IT supervisor was called off to handle more immediate fires :-) ).  I'll make inquiries this week and see if they have some free time over the summer-- I think we are within a few concentrated hours of having a working package that would connect Blackboard and WeBWorK.  It might still require 
> further development, but you would have something substantial to start with.
> 
> G. If you haven't looked at it yet you should look at the Moodle/WeBWorK integration (bridge1).  For example:
> http://hosted.webwork.rochester.edu/moodle/course/view.php?id=3  and the page:  http://wwrk.maa.org/wiki/Moodle_Integration
> for a description of both bridge1 (WeBWorK assignment type intoperation) and bridge2(question level interoperation).  The latter 
> is in very rough beta -- but would allow those who are used to Moodle to push the WeBWorK interface entirely into the background.
> It's worth completing.
> The Moodle/WeBWork, Blackboard/WeBWorK  bridges are the reason that I haven't worked too hard on interactive chat -- or bulletin boards
> since those systems already have those available at one level or another and I don't want to reinvent wheels unless we can actually do it better.
> 
> I haven't considered interfacing with Drupal (which I think of as a content management system, (CMS) not a course or learning management
> system (CMS or LMS) -- it seems more like a version of mediaWiki which we have moved to for our central documentation. So far we've been
> pretty happy with that.  If you have specific ideas about what to do with a Drupal/WeBWorK integration I'd be interested to hear them.
> 
> H. We have authorization via LDAP and a few other mechanisms but not via Shibboleth as far as I know.  It would be a worthwhile 
> addition.
> 
> I. I just uploaded some improvements to the WeBWorK admin page that make migration to new versions of WeBWorK easier -- basically it 
> allows you to do many upgrades to the course database tables from the Web rather than running dbUpgrade from the command line.
> It also works better. :-) (It wouldn't be hard to attach a command line front end to the upgrade mechanisms for those who prefer that.)
> Having said that -- anything that makes installation and management easier would be very welcome!
> 
> J. One big project -- one that takes some planning -- is to redesign the WeBWorK database.  Historically WeBWorK started using
> GDBM database (msql, mysql's precursor had just started and was still too slow to use when we began Webwork -- we couldn't and can't afford Oracle :-) )
> Even when we switched to mysql around 2000 or 2001 we maintained backward compatibility --- the result is that each course has 
> a dozen tables attached to it.  One of our students, Matt Leventi, now at Microsoft, explained to us why this was not the best solution.
> We'd like to change the structure dramatically -- so that it is more like Moodle's.  Roughly speaking it's a matter of transposing the 
> matrix, and also of breaking up some of the longer tables and using LeftJoins to retrieve the data.  First of all this means
> that instead of adding a dozen tables every time you added a course you would have a fixed number of tables and adding 
> a course would merely add lines to those tables.  This would be much easier to maintain.  Not much more has been done although
> Jason and I have discussed the possibility of organizing a video conference on this theme in order to start gathering ideas about what 
> the new database should look like.
> 
> Thanks for joining in on the WeBWorK project. It's also given me an opportunity to organize my own thoughts on what needs to be done next.
>  I look forward to adding your contributions into the main code.  Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions and please keep
> us informed of any projects you start up so that we don't duplicate effort any more than necessary.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 11, 2010, at 6:55 PM, Djun Kim wrote:
> 
>> Hi Michael,
>> 
>> Thanks for getting back to me!
>>     
>> On 2010-06-07, at 6:24 PM, Michael Gage wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Djun,
>>> 
>>> Welcome.
>>> 
>>> Pardon the delay in replying -- I've been out of town for a few days and am still catching up on the email.
>>> 
>>> We are delighted to have help at any level -- help with documentation, help with writing math problems,
>>> help with new PG macros for making writing problems easier (macros as in TeX macros that make LaTeX more friendly than TeX),
>>> or if you like working with perl -- help on the core code base -- from instructor/user interface improvements to hidden database improvements.
>>> 
>>> So for me the first order of business is to find out what you are interested in, more precisely and what skills you have.
>>> For you.  If you haven't checked out the information on our wiki    at http://webwork.maa.org you should do that -- and join so that you 
>>> have access to post on the forums and can edit the wiki.
>> 
>> We're pretty excited about WeBWorK here at UBC.  I applied for a small grant to do a little bit of development, and it looks
>> like there's quite a bit of interest in supporting additional work.  
>> 
>> The initial work I've been doing is focused on two areas: UI/UX improvements, and interoperability.
>> 
>>      UI/UX:  I've integrated CodeMirror code editor widgets into the WeBWorK student answer screens and the Problem Editing screen.
>> This provides (e.g.)  syntax highlighting and parenthesis matching.  I'm currently working on a little bit of general UI cleanup - I'm thinking I'll restrict myself to CSS tweaks + JavaScript helpers to start with.   Next up on the UI/UX front is a bit of an experiment: integration with a jabber-based
>> chat client to support on-line interactive tutorial help.
>> 
>>       I've written a little bit about what I've done so far on my blog at http://teaching.puregin.org/blog/djun-kim/ui-improvements-for-webwork,
>> with a couple of before and after screenshots.
>> 
>>       Interoperability:  planned work: allow authentication via Shibboleth.  Grade exports to Vista/Blackboard.  Integration with
>> our Student information systems (unlikely to be very universal/portable).   
>>  
>>       So far this work is all been pretty preliminary, but in the next few days (once I get my git repository whipped into better shap) I'll have a demo site available and some code for your review and consideration.
>> 
>>        I see the following as the main strengths of WeBWorK at this point:
>> 
>>            * large base of users; community
>>            * large, public problem libraries
>> 
>>        I'm interested in:
>>  
>>            * lowering barriers to authoring and sharing problems
>>            * improving UX for learners - expanding interaction modes
>>            * integration with Drupal 
>>            * making installation / mass hosting easier
>>            * providing evaluation of answers via Macsyma, as an option
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> We're happy to have new comer edits on the wiki -- because there are many things confusing to newbies that the old timers
>>> don't even notice -- having come to terms with the confusion long ago. 
>> 
>>     I've certainly been reading through and learning from the wiki - I'll sign up and contribute some of my notes as I learn more about
>> the code. 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Hope to hear more from you soon.
>>> 
>>> Take care,
>>> 
>>> Mike
>> 
>>       Best regards - looking forward to hearing from you.
>> 
>>       Djun
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Djun Kim wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi All 
>>>> 
>>>>    I'm interested in doing some development on WeBWorK. 
>>>> I wanted to introduce myself and get some sense for what
>>>> activity is currently happening with the project.
>>>> 
>>>>    Cheers, Djun
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------
>>>> Djun Kim, Ph.D.
>>>> UBC Skylight Research Associate / Mathematics
>>>> 
>>>> dju...@ma...
>>>> Tel: (604) 822-0683
>>>> Office: Math 238
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ------
>> Djun Kim
>> UBC Skylight Research Associate / Mathematics
>> 
>> dju...@ma...
>> Tel: (604) 822-0683
>> Office: Math 238
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>