From: Dotan C. <dot...@gm...> - 2008-06-03 06:11:07
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2008/6/3 Emanoil Kotsev <del...@ya...>: > Syncing is (should be) bi-directional, the one way is copy ;-) That is true. I have had lots of bad experience with: 1) Two-way data transfer between unlike database sources. 2) Telephones' limited data-entry methods. So, I prefer to enter data on the desktop and then push it to the phone as well. The phone can then mangle it all it wants, the real data is safe in KDE-PIM. When I am without the phone and I must add a phone number I prepend the name with a dot, so that I know to update KDE-PIM when I get home. > Well I tried before, but no attention from anybody, so I used the abbility > to put forward my questions. Happens, especially with unusual hardware that other list members might not be familiar with. But the S-E phone can't be _that_ uncommon, so maybe try again? > Actually I think I'm experienced with lists. Sorry, I did not mean to insult. > Actually I'm primary interested in buying one phone that can sync. > The advice to check with the local cell.phone distributor was really good, > BUT how can I be sure that everything works at all, when I go to the shop??? > I mean I am not sure that the problem is in the phone. I rather think it is > a IRDA/OpenSync problem. Or something in my contacts/notes etc. files (may > be not UTF or similar) I suppose that one would have to be experienced enough with opensync to know how to get it working withing a reasonable amount of time. That's why I haven't done it yet. No time to learn about opensync BEFORE I have the device. Chicken-Egg scenario. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? |
From: Emanoil K. <del...@ya...> - 2008-06-03 09:47:29
|
Thanks Dotan for taking your time. I wrote a new mail wit hmy problem to open a new thread. Actually I am not getting insulted that easy, so there is no problem with underestimating me. In general it's safer to explain more So, I prefer to enter data on the desktop and then push it to the phone as well. The phone can then mangle it all it wants, the real data is safe in KDE-PIM. When I am without the phone and I must add a phone number I prepend the name with a dot, so that I know to update KDE-PIM when I get home. Ok, it's tricky then :-) But how do you do this then? Can you post the way you do one way sync (maybe reply to me only, or put it into the thread I opened) > Well I tried before, but no attention from anybody, so I used the abbility > to put forward my questions. Happens, especially with unusual hardware that other list members might not be familiar with. But the S-E phone can't be _that_ uncommon, so maybe try again? I'll do for sure. I suppose that one would have to be experienced enough with opensync to know how to get it working withing a reasonable amount of time. Well I think I've read enough about opensync, bluetooth, irda and usb syncs. In fact I can connect and manipulate the phone data with wammu and on the nokia phone with x/gnokii, so I've expected opensync to work as well as they do, but :-( disappointed. That's why I haven't done it yet. No time to learn about opensync BEFORE I have the device. Chicken-Egg scenario. Hm, I read before purchaising the K750i that people managed to sync it, but for me it did not work. Sync started and aborted in the middle. but I think it is a kde-pim problem, so subject to another forum. So the chicken and the egg both are here but seem to be dead. regards |
From: Dotan C. <dot...@gm...> - 2008-06-03 10:09:54
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2008/6/3 Emanoil Kotsev <del...@ya...>: > But how do you do this then? Can you post the way you do one way sync (maybe > reply to me only, or put it into the thread I opened) I'm currently not syncing, but that was how I had synced my Dell Axim x50v way back when. It was a nightmare to configure, and after moving from Fedora to Ubuntu as a daily driver I had not been able to get it syncing again. > Well I think I've read enough about opensync, bluetooth, irda and usb syncs. > In fact I can connect and manipulate the phone data with wammu and on the > nokia phone with x/gnokii, so I've expected opensync to work as well as they > do, but :-( disappointed. That's good. If your machine is a laptop, then just try going into the store and asking. Can't hurt. I'm not quite up to the level where I can get things configured in just a few minutes, that's why I have not yet tried. That, and I'm in the middle of exams. > Hm, I read before purchaising the K750i that people managed to sync it, but > for me it did not work. Sync started and aborted in the middle. but I think > it is a kde-pim problem, so subject to another forum. I just googled your phone and I see that people are syncing it, but not without trouble: http://www.mozoft.com/opensync.html http://stefans.datenbruch.de/k750i/ http://distinction.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/k750i-and-kmobiletools/ http://contented.life.eu.org/articles/sony-ericsson-k750i-and-linux/ (grep for "zinger" who says that he synced Evolution with no problems) Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? |
From: Emanoil K. <del...@ya...> - 2008-06-03 11:00:47
|
Hi, thanks for the posting, I'm currently not syncing, but that was how I had synced my Dell Axim x50v way back when. It was a nightmare to configure, and after moving from Fedora to Ubuntu as a daily driver I had not been able to get it syncing again. ok :-( > Well I think I've read enough about opensync, bluetooth, irda and usb syncs. > In fact I can connect and manipulate the phone data with wammu and on the > nokia phone with x/gnokii, so I've expected opensync to work as well as they > do, but :-( disappointed. i won't do this reading again, because last time I had a notebook with bluetooth, so it was easier to find information and I spent 3 days to get everything working and find out that there is a character conversion problem. So to be honest I'm thinking of buying either a Mac machine or a phone that works for sure. But the last thing is in doubt so I tend to the first sollution. I'm pretty buzzy untill september but then I'll take my time to solve the problem once and for ever. I was very glad about 2 years ago with Palm III and Siemens S55. Since then I think I'm in the stone age. That's good. If your machine is a laptop, then just try going into the store and asking. Can't hurt. I'm not quite up to the level where I can get things configured in just a few minutes, that's why I have not yet tried. That, and I'm in the middle of exams. I do understand no problem. > Hm, I read before purchaising the K750i that people managed to sync it, but > for me it did not work. Sync started and aborted in the middle. but I think > it is a kde-pim problem, so subject to another forum. I just googled your phone and I see that people are syncing it, but not without trouble: http://www.mozoft.com/opensync.html http://stefans.datenbruch.de/k750i/ http://distinction.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/k750i-and-kmobiletools/ http://contented.life.eu.org/articles/sony-ericsson-k750i-and-linux/ (grep for "zinger" who says that he synced Evolution with no problems) Great I'll check, thanks for all the good words. kind regards |
From: Graham C. <g+o...@co...> - 2008-06-04 22:32:40
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On Tuesday 03 June 2008 07:11:13 Dotan Cohen wrote: > 2008/6/3 Emanoil Kotsev <del...@ya...>: > > Syncing is (should be) bi-directional, the one way is copy ;-) > > That is true. I have had lots of bad experience with: > 1) Two-way data transfer between unlike database sources. > 2) Telephones' limited data-entry methods. > > So, I prefer to enter data on the desktop and then push it to the > phone as well. The phone can then mangle it all it wants, the real > data is safe in KDE-PIM. When I am without the phone and I must add a > phone number I prepend the name with a dot, so that I know to update > KDE-PIM when I get home. I also tend to use one-way sync to my phone. In my case it is complicated further because I keep the master data on my (employer-provided) laptop in Outlook (and, hence, Exchange) and I only have one-way sync from Exchange into the Opensync environment (from which I propagate the data to kdepim, to my Nokia Internet Tablet and to my phone). But even once in the Opensync environment, I only do one-way sync to my phone, because of the problem that the phone only stores a subset of the data. The way I do that (with Opensync 0.2x) is to first sync the phone with an empty file-sync directory, then copy in the data files from Outlook and re-sync. This means that changes to existing entries on the phone are lost (new entries created on the phone are propagated into the Opensync environment -- I do have an option which deletes all the files before copying in the data for use when I want to clean all the data from the phone). With Opensync 0.3x I am hoping I won't need to do that any more because Opensync will know that the phone only stores a subset of data and won't get confused when it is read back. However, it would still be useful to be able to specify one-way (with and without a "remove all the existing data first" option). Then all I will need to do is to make my Exchange sync two-way for a fully integrated environment! Graham |
From: Emanoil K. <del...@ya...> - 2008-06-05 08:37:24
|
Hello everybody, hello Graham, thank you for explaining the way you do a one way sync. Everything sounds too complicated and not very reliable. I would prefer the way described by you and Dotan. to push from kde-pim to the phones (I have private and company one). I'll simply need a step by step guide. I also was asking myself how to activate logging and where are the log files for the opensync. Graham Cobb <g+o...@co...> wrote: On Tuesday 03 June 2008 07:11:13 Dotan Cohen wrote: > 2008/6/3 Emanoil Kotsev : > > Syncing is (should be) bi-directional, the one way is copy ;-) > > That is true. I have had lots of bad experience with: > 1) Two-way data transfer between unlike database sources. > 2) Telephones' limited data-entry methods. > > So, I prefer to enter data on the desktop and then push it to the > phone as well. The phone can then mangle it all it wants, the real > data is safe in KDE-PIM. When I am without the phone and I must add a > phone number I prepend the name with a dot, so that I know to update > KDE-PIM when I get home. I also tend to use one-way sync to my phone. In my case it is complicated further because I keep the master data on my (employer-provided) laptop in Outlook (and, hence, Exchange) and I only have one-way sync from Exchange into the Opensync environment (from which I propagate the data to kdepim, to my Nokia Internet Tablet and to my phone). The situation I have is more complicated as I'm using linux also on the company notebook, where I use Evolution as an Exchange client but in SuSe. so I need to sync my personal contacts stored in evo somehow with the phone and at home sync the phone with my personal contacts stored in KDE ... and then sync the data with my private mobile .... or sync both phones at work and at home. But even once in the Opensync environment, I only do one-way sync to my phone, because of the problem that the phone only stores a subset of the data. The way I do that (with Opensync 0.2x) is to first sync the phone with an empty file-sync directory, then copy in the data files from Outlook and re-sync. How could I do this in both environments? I mean at work and at home ... push the data to the phone(s)? This means that changes to existing entries on the phone are lost (new entries created on the phone are propagated into the Opensync environment -- I do have an option which deletes all the files before copying in the data for use when I want to clean all the data from the phone). So you first clean the phone and then store the data? I understand right? With Opensync 0.3x I am hoping I won't need to do that any more because Did you try the 0.3 versioin ... to be honest I'm afraid to lose data using dev software. I can backup only one phone in Windows (as I'm using windows in a VMware and only have usb cable for one of the phones) Opensync will know that the phone only stores a subset of data and won't get confused when it is read back. However, it would still be useful to be able to specify one-way (with and without a "remove all the existing data first" option). This sounds promising. I'm looking forward to build a test environment and check the 0.3 version The hole discussion is making me some kind of sad, because I was used to sync without problems with my Palm III and Siemens S55 few years ago and was thinking that things getting better. In fact it's a nightmare to get a simple thing done. Hopefully in future it will change regards |
From: Dotan C. <dot...@gm...> - 2008-06-06 10:52:30
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2008/6/5 Emanoil Kotsev <del...@ya...>: > The hole discussion is making me some kind of sad, because I was used to > sync without problems with my Palm III and Siemens S55 few years ago and was > thinking that things getting better. > In fact it's a nightmare to get a simple thing done. > Hopefully in future it will change > In my opinion things are getting better with opensync, however, the hardware manufacturers change their sync specs with every new phone. Hopefully SyncML will solve this. Write to Nokia, Motorola, Siemans, LG, and the other phone manufacturers and let them know that Linux users want to purchase their phones and sync them as well. If we don't let them know that we exist, then they will not help us. If you cannot find the addresses for the cellphone manufacturers, then write to me and I will find them for you. I write to one company (hardware or software) a week requesting Linux support, and you would be surprised at how willing hardware manufacturers would be to provide support when they see that people want it. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? |
From: Emanoil K. <del...@ya...> - 2008-06-06 23:08:25
|
Hi, Dotan, thanks for posting, first of all I tried to change the reply style, so I hope it's OK for all of you now, sorry, not my fault. --- Dotan Cohen <dot...@gm...> wrote: > 2008/6/5 Emanoil Kotsev <del...@ya...>: > > The hole discussion is making me some kind of sad, > because I was used to > > sync without problems with my Palm III and Siemens > S55 few years ago and was > > thinking that things getting better. > > In fact it's a nightmare to get a simple thing > done. > > Hopefully in future it will change > > > > In my opinion things are getting better with > opensync, however, the > hardware manufacturers change their sync specs with > every new phone. That's really the problem. I was thinking if we can force them to post the specs in advance, so that we may cope. At least hear in Europe it could be done, because honestly I feel my rights hurt if I'm buying a phone and have to buy a OS (mostlly bundled to hardware) to sync it. I also beleive that the manufacturers will cooperate (and why not?) > Hopefully SyncML will solve this. Write to Nokia, > Motorola, Siemans, > LG, and the other phone manufacturers and let them > know that Linux > users want to purchase their phones and sync them as > well. If we don't > let them know that we exist, then they will not help > us. > Is there a discussion about a petition or some kind of act. Or who is doing syncml and who not and why not? I think the companies need a regulation, so that if they don't want to follow a standard (because greede) they have to be forced to give the specs what they are really doing or provide proprietary driver. > If you cannot find the addresses for the cellphone > manufacturers, then > write to me and I will find them for you. I write to > one company > (hardware or software) a week requesting Linux > support, and you would > be surprised at how willing hardware manufacturers > would be to provide > support when they see that people want it. not quite sure if you ironically mean it. I have +/- experience regarding support. Mostly they say. Yeah, sure it's good to have but linux is not primary target because it's small market and we are planing support in future. But surprisingly as you say there are more and more that see the potential and really provide help. Also as I am really thinking to check if I can not file a questioning about the legal possibility to file a case in the EU commission for human rights and for competition. I mean if the EU can vote for rights of mice and chicken ... they should be able to push the money makers to give us at least technical specs needed to build a sync program in one month or so after the phones are out, or even better to support the developers to bring drivers together with phones. But enough politics. The 0.22 version is much better than 0.19 but is absolutely unusable (at least for me). The question now is how to sync one way as you do, or/and how to sync outlook with kde? Do you have a suitable howto in mind? thanks in advance and thanks to all regards |
From: Dotan C. <dot...@gm...> - 2008-06-07 08:05:50
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2008/6/7 Emanoil Kotsev <del...@ya...>: >> In my opinion things are getting better with >> opensync, however, the >> hardware manufacturers change their sync specs with >> every new phone. > > That's really the problem. I was thinking if we can > force them to post the specs in advance, so that we > may cope. At least hear in Europe it could be done, > because honestly I feel my rights hurt if I'm buying a > phone and have to buy a OS (mostlly bundled to > hardware) to sync it. > I also beleive that the manufacturers will cooperate > (and why not?) Well, we can't force them to do anything. But we could tell them that we purchase the products that do what we need them to. And we need Linux support. >> Hopefully SyncML will solve this. Write to Nokia, >> Motorola, Siemans, >> LG, and the other phone manufacturers and let them >> know that Linux >> users want to purchase their phones and sync them as >> well. If we don't >> let them know that we exist, then they will not help >> us. >> > > Is there a discussion about a petition or some kind of > act. There will be soon. I have another two weeks of exams before I start working on other projects. If you would like to help write to hardware and software manufacturers than let me know, I'll send more details in a few weeks. > Or who is doing syncml and who not and why not? I > think the companies need a regulation, so that if they > don't want to follow a standard (because greede) they > have to be forced to give the specs what they are > really doing or provide proprietary driver. Cellphone companies in particular are both willing and wary of collablorating with their competitors. Bluetooth is the fruit of collaboration. >> If you cannot find the addresses for the cellphone >> manufacturers, then >> write to me and I will find them for you. I write to >> one company >> (hardware or software) a week requesting Linux >> support, and you would >> be surprised at how willing hardware manufacturers >> would be to provide >> support when they see that people want it. > > not quite sure if you ironically mean it. I am dead serious. I will soon start providing information for other to help as well. > I have +/- > experience regarding support. Mostly they say. Yeah, > sure it's good to have but linux is not primary target > because it's small market and we are planing support > in future. Exactly! If Linux users write to them then they will see that the Linux market is not so small. Furthermore, the Linux market is composed of much more technically-inclined people, who will buy their gadgets. > But surprisingly as you say there are more and more > that see the potential and really provide help. Very much so. > Also as I am really thinking to check if I can not > file a questioning about the legal possibility to file > a case in the EU commission for human rights and for > competition. I mean if the EU can vote for rights of > mice and chicken ... they should be able to push the > money makers to give us at least technical specs > needed to build a sync program in one month or so > after the phones are out, or even better to support > the developers to bring drivers together with phones. I doubt if you can, but it would not hurt to try. Let us know what you find. > The 0.22 version is much better than 0.19 but is > absolutely unusable (at least for me). > > The question now is how to sync one way as you do, > or/and how to sync outlook with kde? > > Do you have a suitable howto in mind? > Give me two weeks to finish my exams and I will try to sync the phone. It is a Nokia, though. I will post details. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? |
From: Emanoil K. <del...@ya...> - 2008-06-07 11:53:37
|
Hi Dotan and thanks for the discussion. Good luck with your exams! I'm also buzy with a thesis and it seems to take the hole summer but in general I'm willing to help of course, because I am suffering baadly with this contact/calender mess, thats getting worse and worse. --- Dotan Cohen <dot...@gm...> wrote: > 2008/6/7 Emanoil Kotsev <del...@ya...>: > >> In my opinion things are getting better with > >> opensync, however, the > >> hardware manufacturers change their sync specs > with > >> every new phone. > > > > That's really the problem. I was thinking if we > can > > force them to post the specs in advance, so that > we > > may cope. At least hear in Europe it could be > done, > > because honestly I feel my rights hurt if I'm > buying a > > phone and have to buy a OS (mostlly bundled to > > hardware) to sync it. > > I also beleive that the manufacturers will > cooperate > > (and why not?) > > Well, we can't force them to do anything. But we > could tell them that > we purchase the products that do what we need them > to. And we need > Linux support. So they are willing and we are willing too :-) It sounds just great and promising. > > >> Hopefully SyncML will solve this. Write to Nokia, > >> Motorola, Siemans, > >> LG, and the other phone manufacturers and let > them > >> know that Linux > >> users want to purchase their phones and sync them > as > >> well. If we don't > >> let them know that we exist, then they will not > help > >> us. > >> > > > > Is there a discussion about a petition or some > kind of > > act. > > There will be soon. I have another two weeks of > exams before I start > working on other projects. If you would like to help > write to hardware > and software manufacturers than let me know, I'll > send more details in > a few weeks. > OK, it's not much time, so I'll wait. > > Or who is doing syncml and who not and why not? I > > think the companies need a regulation, so that if > they > > don't want to follow a standard (because greede) > they > > have to be forced to give the specs what they are > > really doing or provide proprietary driver. > > Cellphone companies in particular are both willing > and wary of > collablorating with their competitors. Bluetooth is > the fruit of > collaboration. > > >> If you cannot find the addresses for the > cellphone > >> manufacturers, then > >> write to me and I will find them for you. I write > to > >> one company > >> (hardware or software) a week requesting Linux > >> support, and you would > >> be surprised at how willing hardware > manufacturers > >> would be to provide > >> support when they see that people want it. > > > > not quite sure if you ironically mean it. > > I am dead serious. I will soon start providing > information for other > to help as well. > > > I have +/- > > experience regarding support. Mostly they say. > Yeah, > > sure it's good to have but linux is not primary > target > > because it's small market and we are planing > support > > in future. > > Exactly! If Linux users write to them then they will > see that the > Linux market is not so small. Furthermore, the Linux > market is > composed of much more technically-inclined people, > who will buy their > gadgets. Exactly! It could save them also time and money I think if they exchange ideas with other developers. Besides if companies like SGI, NVidea, Intel, RealTek, AMD, Palm etc etc support portability of their devices to linux, why shouldn't mobile phone manufacturers not > > > But surprisingly as you say there are more and > more > > that see the potential and really provide help. > > Very much so. > > > Also as I am really thinking to check if I can not > > file a questioning about the legal possibility to > file > > a case in the EU commission for human rights and > for > > competition. I mean if the EU can vote for rights > of > > mice and chicken ... they should be able to push > the > > money makers to give us at least technical specs > > needed to build a sync program in one month or so > > after the phones are out, or even better to > support > > the developers to bring drivers together with > phones. > > I doubt if you can, but it would not hurt to try. > Let us know what you find. What I mean or have in mind is an infrastructure to incorporate manufacturer details by phone model, protocol and may be firmware version or so, because it will be needed to keep in mind some software/hardware bugs. I think we should define a minimum requirements and questions and demand to have them covered and answered by manufacturers. From my point of view it's obvious what we all need: Calender, Contacts (Events), Notes, Todos and files (data). We get them give us the spec, fill up the framework and get it done. And this is exactly what opensync is doing - providing the framework. > > > The 0.22 version is much better than 0.19 but is > > absolutely unusable (at least for me). > > > > The question now is how to sync one way as you do, > > or/and how to sync outlook with kde? > > > > Do you have a suitable howto in mind? > > > > Give me two weeks to finish my exams and I will try > to sync the phone. > It is a Nokia, though. I will post details. > No problem ... as I said I'm a little bit preoccupied but still I've been struggling with this sync problem for more than one year now and since I got involved into the discussion I've seen what the problem really is. So I'l sum up. My short term goal is to find a way to sync somehow the phones with each other and with linux. The "one way" sync seems to be the only possible way, because different phones have different fields. Alternative solution would be to have only one phone model for private and buziness, so fields match. I've heard about symbian phones - they should sync, but a discussion with Pawel and you proved the opposite, so I am thinking what I'll do next to solve my problem in short terms. The discussion was VERY VERY helpful. Thanks! Second goal seems to be to help you as far as I can to get a robust framework for syncable devices. I'll watch out to read more about opensync in future and get a brief overview of the development and so on. This will take also some time. I'm not very skilled in programming C/C++ but can read and understand C/C++ code and write if needed. But we'll figure out later how I can help. Kind regards and thumbs up |