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From: Jules B. <jm...@he...> - 2000-01-23 21:42:38
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Hi guys! Briefly, kudos to Henti for setting this up. I'm convinced the whole GPL quake effort has enough momentum behind it to make cool things happen now... What we need: 1) Textures As a first start, we only need a usable set of textures to get us going with some simple levels. That's not going to be a problem - there are loads of free textures around. The paroxysm project has a texture WAD which I've looked at briefly, and it's pretty cool. http://www.planetquake.com/paroxysm Also, there's the free textures page mentioned by cptnapalam earlier: http://graphtallica.ingava.com the former is GPL'ed, the latter gives us full permission to do anything with! 2) Models Models are a bit harder. TO have a usable game we need a player model, models for all the weapons, both 'in hand' and 'on the floor', models for the ammunition 'in flight', models for the ammo packs, models for keys and armor and misc objects, and models for monsters. Paroxysm gives us most of the weapons stuff (we need to talk to the author to find out what he uses of Id's: I've briefly played paroxysm, and it seems that he uses their grenade model, but not much else) A great model project is this one: http://www.planetquake.com/simitar/model.html I haven't downloaded many models, but the one I did - 'Male' which comes down as humanoid.zip, is free for unrestricted distribution, and we could use for now as the player model. There are some possibilities there for monster models too. http://www.planetquake.com/q2pmp/hostings/evilb/ has some models, with no licenses. Conceivably he could be persuaded to license them freely or GPL them. There are loads of monster models in the 'idganes2' directory of your local cdrom.com mirror. (see below for more) 3) Maps There are *loads* of maps out there. The only problem is that many of them are not intended for commericial use. See the next section: The Way Forward (tm) Head over to your local mirror of cdrom.com. According to the file I have here, the list of mirrors is: *** Pennsylvania ftp.epix.net/pub/idgames2/ *** *** New York ftp.gamers.org/pub/games/idgames2/ *** *** UK sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/idgames2/ *** *** ftp.compulink.co.uk/pub/games/id/quake/ *** *** Netherlands ftp.mirror.nl/pub/mirror/idgames2/ *** *** Germany ftp.gigabell.net/pub/Games/idgames/quake/ *** *** Sweden ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/idgames2/ *** *** Finland ftp.sci.fi/pub/idgames2/ *** *** Switzerland ftp.datacomm.ch/pub/idgames2/ *** *** Poland ftp.task.gda.pl/pub/games/idgames2/ *** *** Portugal ftp.telepac.pt/pub/idgames2/ *** *** Brazil ftp.iis.com.br/pub/mirror/Quake/ *** *** Australia ftp.powerup.com.au/pub/idgames2/ Brisbane *** *** mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/idgames2/ Queensland *** or there's a web interface at: http://files.gameaholic.com/idgames.d/quake/ There's a HUGE amount of stuff there. Easily enough for us to acheive our goals. Unfortunately, very little of it is freely enough licensed for our purposes. Fortunately, the authors mostly sound like reasonable people. [I appreciate that many of you probably already knew about this. But remember, I'm totally new to the quake world] So what we need to do, I think, is write to some of these people, and get their permission to use their work. Which means they must either license it freely (in the sense of, without restriction), or they must license it under the GPL. However, that is a letter which needs to be carefully written. It's important to strike the right balance between the dangerous extremes of 1) appearing to be sponging off their hard work and wanting something for nothing and 2) rabbitting on about free software so they begin to wonder if we're religious nuts. I'm prepared to have a go at writing this letter, (but not tonight, I'm too tired to get it right). But whoever does it, it better be someone capable of being fairly tactful. The other thing I think we should do is announce our call for GPL'ed models, textures and maps on various of the quake communities sites. www.planetquake.com is apparently one - maybe someone else here knows more about which places are still active. There's some really cool stuff out there. It's going to be a mammoth job sorting and packaging it all up :-) Of course, we don't need to do that. But we want to sort and package enough up to make (1) a playable GPL game and eventually (2) a replacement for pak{0,1}.pak. Jules /----------------+-------------------------------+---------------------\ | Jelibean aka | ju...@je... | 6 Evelyn Rd | | Jules aka | ju...@de... | Richmond, Surrey | | Julian Bean | jm...@he... | TW9 2TF *UK* | +----------------+-------------------------------+---------------------+ | War doesn't demonstrate who's right... just who's left. | | When privacy is outlawed... only the outlaws have privacy. | \----------------------------------------------------------------------/ |
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From: Jason_Nelson <jas...@em...> - 2000-01-24 02:06:48
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Textures - we should try to collect as many one to one mapping textures for free textures to id textures as possible. Ideally, a web page with all shareware (to start) id textures could be created , so one could see what the id texture looks like, then submit or suggest an equivalent GPL replacement. This allows direct viewing of progress in complete free replacements, and eventually allow distribution of maps that once relied on non free textures. Models - I have backpack, armor, and gib2 models, as well as g_ and v_ models for double barreld shotgun and rocket launcher that I've created from scratch to look similar to the id models. They aren't a perfect poly to poly mapping, and as a matter of fact don't look exactly identical, but they work in game, and look quite similar. They would all need to be skinned, as all of them have id skins pasted on right now so I could see how close my model looks to id's. In particular, both v_models need the muzzle flash added. Sounds - can't help here. GFX - we'll need gpl replacements of all the gfx elements, can we get these from TC authors? (It seems that these elements were often the first added) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jules Bean <jm...@he...> To: <ope...@li...> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 1:41 PM Subject: [Openquartz-general] Free resources: what's out there, what we need > Hi guys! > > Briefly, kudos to Henti for setting this up. I'm convinced the whole GPL > quake effort has enough momentum behind it to make cool things happen > now... > > What we need: > > 1) Textures > > As a first start, we only need a usable set of textures to get us going > with some simple levels. That's not going to be a problem - there are > loads of free textures around. The paroxysm project has a texture WAD > which I've looked at briefly, and it's pretty cool. > > http://www.planetquake.com/paroxysm > > Also, there's the free textures page mentioned by cptnapalam earlier: > > http://graphtallica.ingava.com > > the former is GPL'ed, the latter gives us full permission to do anything > with! > > > 2) Models > > Models are a bit harder. TO have a usable game we need a player model, > models for all the weapons, both 'in hand' and 'on the floor', models for > the ammunition 'in flight', models for the ammo packs, models for keys and > armor and misc objects, and models for monsters. > > Paroxysm gives us most of the weapons stuff (we need to talk to the author > to find out what he uses of Id's: I've briefly played paroxysm, and it > seems that he uses their grenade model, but not much else) > > A great model project is this one: > > http://www.planetquake.com/simitar/model.html > > I haven't downloaded many models, but the one I did - 'Male' which comes > down as humanoid.zip, is free for unrestricted distribution, and we could > use for now as the player model. > > There are some possibilities there for monster models too. > > http://www.planetquake.com/q2pmp/hostings/evilb/ > > has some models, with no licenses. Conceivably he could be persuaded to > license them freely or GPL them. > > There are loads of monster models in the 'idganes2' directory of your > local cdrom.com mirror. (see below for more) > > > 3) Maps > > There are *loads* of maps out there. The only problem is that many of > them are not intended for commericial use. See the next section: > > > The Way Forward (tm) > > Head over to your local mirror of cdrom.com. According to the file I have > here, the list of mirrors is: > > *** Pennsylvania ftp.epix.net/pub/idgames2/ *** > *** New York ftp.gamers.org/pub/games/idgames2/ *** > *** UK sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/idgames2/ *** > *** ftp.compulink.co.uk/pub/games/id/quake/ *** > *** Netherlands ftp.mirror.nl/pub/mirror/idgames2/ *** > *** Germany ftp.gigabell.net/pub/Games/idgames/quake/ *** > *** Sweden ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/idgames2/ *** > *** Finland ftp.sci.fi/pub/idgames2/ *** > *** Switzerland ftp.datacomm.ch/pub/idgames2/ *** > *** Poland ftp.task.gda.pl/pub/games/idgames2/ *** > *** Portugal ftp.telepac.pt/pub/idgames2/ *** > *** Brazil ftp.iis.com.br/pub/mirror/Quake/ *** > *** Australia ftp.powerup.com.au/pub/idgames2/ Brisbane *** > *** mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/idgames2/ Queensland *** > > or there's a web interface at: > > http://files.gameaholic.com/idgames.d/quake/ > > There's a HUGE amount of stuff there. Easily enough for us to acheive our > goals. Unfortunately, very little of it is freely enough licensed for our > purposes. Fortunately, the authors mostly sound like reasonable people. > > [I appreciate that many of you probably already knew about this. But > remember, I'm totally new to the quake world] > > So what we need to do, I think, is write to some of these people, and get > their permission to use their work. Which means they must either license > it freely (in the sense of, without restriction), or they must license it > under the GPL. However, that is a letter which needs to be carefully > written. It's important to strike the right balance between the > dangerous extremes of 1) appearing to be sponging off their hard work and > wanting something for nothing and 2) rabbitting on about free software so > they begin to wonder if we're religious nuts. > > I'm prepared to have a go at writing this letter, (but not tonight, I'm > too tired to get it right). But whoever does it, it better be someone > capable of being fairly tactful. > > The other thing I think we should do is announce our call for GPL'ed > models, textures and maps on various of the quake communities sites. > www.planetquake.com is apparently one - maybe someone else here knows more > about which places are still active. > > There's some really cool stuff out there. It's going to be a mammoth job > sorting and packaging it all up :-) Of course, we don't need to do that. > But we want to sort and package enough up to make (1) a playable GPL game > and eventually (2) a replacement for pak{0,1}.pak. > > Jules > > /----------------+-------------------------------+---------------------\ > | Jelibean aka | ju...@je... | 6 Evelyn Rd | > | Jules aka | ju...@de... | Richmond, Surrey | > | Julian Bean | jm...@he... | TW9 2TF *UK* | > +----------------+-------------------------------+---------------------+ > | War doesn't demonstrate who's right... just who's left. | > | When privacy is outlawed... only the outlaws have privacy. | > \----------------------------------------------------------------------/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Openquartz-general mailing list > Ope...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/openquartz-general > |
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From: Henti S. <he...@is...> - 2000-01-24 05:43:42
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On Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 06:03:08PM -0800, Jason_Nelson wrote: > Textures - we should try to collect as many one to one mapping textures for > free textures to id textures as possible. Ideally, a web page with all > shareware (to start) id textures could be created , so one could see what > the id texture looks like, then submit or suggest an equivalent GPL > replacement. This allows direct viewing of progress in complete free > replacements, and eventually allow distribution of maps that once relied on > non free textures. I spoke to Seth from www.planetquake.com/simitar He's got a texture pak there. We are welcome to use it :) > Models - I have backpack, armor, and gib2 models, as well as g_ and v_ > models for double barreld shotgun and rocket launcher that I've created from > scratch to look similar to the id models. They aren't a perfect poly to > poly mapping, and as a matter of fact don't look exactly identical, but they > work in game, and look quite similar. They would all need to be skinned, as > all of them have id skins pasted on right now so I could see how close my > model looks to id's. In particular, both v_models need the muzzle flash > added. Thats sounds very workable :) > Sounds - can't help here. this is probebly the only section I can be a real help ;P > GFX - we'll need gpl replacements of all the gfx elements, can we get these > from TC authors? (It seems that these elements were often the first added) This bring ups a few question I've been meaning to ask. 1:) Is our first order of business to replace item for item the current quake pak file. this will make a GPL PAK file quicker to create as we are just doing replacements not a total convertion. 2:) I've not setup the CVS stuff yet ..a s I'm not sure how we can manage that. I have of course a few ideas ;P a:) use the pakfile structure but with relevant files touched instead of acuall data ( maybe a text description of what they are to be replaced ) so that people can grab a CVS and start replacing. I was thinking of creating module pak0 and pak1 keeping with the pak names. b:) since ftp incoming is not possible I would like to add somebody that knows CVS better then me to maintain the CVS tree ;P we can have submittions to the list and then add it manually ( unless he has CVS access of course ) once again .. comments/flames/free beer ;P Henti |
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From: Jason_Nelson <jas...@em...> - 2000-01-24 22:28:37
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> I spoke to Seth from www.planetquake.com/simitar He's got a texture pak there. > We are welcome to use it :) Great. Now all we need is a text file saying which free textures replace which copyrighted textures. It's not vital that the textures be exact replacements, just that they keep the "spirit" of the replacement. A web page that displays all unreplaced id textures would be nice, so that when someone runs across a texture, they can quickly look to see if it matches a texture that needs replacement. I might try to make one of these. Didn't Golgatha release a ton of free textures (wrong format, but we could convert). planetquake.com has a place called the texture warehouse, with lots and lots of texture artist addresses. We should mail them all and see who is willing to gpl their stuff. > 1:) Is our first order of business to replace item for item the current quake pak file. > this will make a GPL PAK file quicker to create as we are just doing replacements not > a total convertion. I think so. My eventual goal is to have a complete pak that allows first online play (less models that way, as the monsters don't have to be redone), then single player play. CORE.PAK should be the core files required to boot up quakeforge and play in a multiplayer game. This means at least the gfx from gfx.wad, and the core models are determined by the quake c program (as are sounds). I'd like the output to resemble original quake as much as possible at first, to retain the quake "feel". However, to get up and running, we could acquire elements from willing TC authors, then "upgrade" them as we get better or more similar replacements. > > 2:) I've not setup the CVS stuff yet ..a s I'm not sure how we can manage that. I have of course a few ideas ;P > > a:) use the pakfile structure but with relevant files touched instead of acuall data ( maybe a text description of what > they are to be replaced ) so that people can grab a CVS and start replacing. I was thinking of creating module pak0 and pak1 > keeping with the pak names. Yes, this would be a good step, as someone might have a good replacement for a file in a pak we haven't gotten to yet. We should also create a pak2 directory that contains all the stuff we get that is NOT a replacement for items in pak0 or pak1, such as GPL'd maps, extra models, ect. Models notes: 1. GPL says you must distribute whatever is required to make a program, i.e, make files. In the case of models, wouldn't this include the base frame, which is neccessary for almost any real modification? I don't see it stated anywhere, but the base frame is essential. 2. Got an v_axe replacement coming soon, do we have anyone who does model skins to help? 3. Player.mdl is arguably the most important model of all. We should make every effort to produce a compatible model, especially at the skin level, to allow using of all the qw skins out there. This is a major task, one I'm not up to facing, (nor talented enough to accomplish), but it would be a very nice touch. |
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From: Henti S. <he...@is...> - 2000-01-25 05:31:34
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> Great. Now all we need is a text file saying which free textures replace > which copyrighted textures. > It's not vital that the textures be exact replacements, just that they keep > the "spirit" of the replacement. > A web page that displays all unreplaced id textures would be nice, so that > when someone runs across a texture, they can quickly look to see if it > matches a texture that needs replacement. I might try to make one of these. > Didn't Golgatha release a ton of free textures (wrong format, but we could > convert). planetquake.com has a place called the texture warehouse, with > lots and lots of texture artist addresses. We should mail them all and see > who is willing to gpl their stuff. The biggest problem with putting the artwork on the web is the copyright issues. We can't even have it as download to check. each person will have to have two trees one with the original pak data .. and the new one ( possibly from CVS ) If you guys find any cool textures send the person's details to the list and I'll start mailing them which nice requests to convert to GPL :) > I think so. My eventual goal is to have a complete pak that allows first > online play (less models that way, as the monsters don't have to be redone), > then single player play. CORE.PAK should be the core files required to boot > up quakeforge and play in a multiplayer game. This means at least the gfx > from gfx.wad, and the core models are determined by the quake c program (as > are sounds). > I'd like the output to resemble original quake as much as possible at first, > to retain the quake "feel". However, to get up and running, we could > acquire elements from willing TC authors, then "upgrade" them as we get > better or more similar replacements. I agree .. > Yes, this would be a good step, as someone might have a good replacement for > a file in a pak we haven't gotten to yet. > We should also create a pak2 directory that contains all the stuff we get > that is NOT a replacement for items in pak0 or pak1, such as GPL'd maps, > extra models, ect. If somebody can help me go thru the unpacked PAK tree to see what we can or cannot remove. I've noticed there are some stuff int he root / that might not be needed to be removed ( stuff like quake.rc, defaulf.cfg ) there are some stuff there that I don't know. > Models notes: > 1. GPL says you must distribute whatever is required to make a program, > i.e, make files. > In the case of models, wouldn't this include the base frame, which is > neccessary for almost any real modification? I don't see it stated > anywhere, but the base frame is essential. It does ... but it does not have to be released like that .. you can request the base file ;P > 2. Got an v_axe replacement coming soon, do we have anyone who does model > skins to help? If anybody does please come out of the woodwork now *smile* > 3. Player.mdl is arguably the most important model of all. We should make > every effort to produce a compatible model, especially at the skin level, to > allow using of all the qw skins out there. This is a major task, one I'm > not up to facing, (nor talented enough to accomplish), but it would be a > very nice touch. ok .. for this we need first off modellers ... and after the draft model is there .. we can start working on th skin anybody keen on creating a new player model ? Henti > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Openquartz-general mailing list > Ope...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/openquartz-general |
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From: Joseph C. <kng...@de...> - 2000-01-24 04:18:44
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On Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 09:41:07PM +0000, Jules Bean wrote: > Briefly, kudos to Henti for setting this up. I'm convinced the whole GPL > quake effort has enough momentum behind it to make cool things happen > now... <RANT> Yah, but he SERIOUSLY needs to alter his configuration.. Look at the List-Id header! The List-Id header is not at all suitable for procmail, so I will have to do things by hand with the Sneder header (which GREATLY complicates things with procmail...) </RANT> > What we need: >=20 > 1) Textures AOL. > 2) Models >=20 > Models are a bit harder. TO have a usable game we need a player model, > models for all the weapons, both 'in hand' and 'on the floor', models for > the ammunition 'in flight', models for the ammo packs, models for keys and > armor and misc objects, and models for monsters. The ammo pack models are pretty easy. =3D> I'd _REALLY_ like right/left handed weapons ala quake2/3 personally. I'd really like to make the player model as close to Id's as possible for reasons of skin compatibility. > 3) Maps >=20 > There are *loads* of maps out there. The only problem is that many of > them are not intended for commericial use. See the next section: Obviously we need a couple DM maps. TF would be nifty too. And I think a single player episode or two would be a good thing. It'd be nifty if server-side bots could be done for a Q3A sort of effect. --=20 Joseph Carter <kng...@de...> Debian Linux developer http://tank.debian.net GnuPG key pub 1024D/DCF9DAB3 sub 2048g/3F9C2A43 http://www.debian.org 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 Indifference will certainly be the downfall of mankind, but who cares? |
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From: Henti S. <he...@is...> - 2000-01-24 05:36:00
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> <RANT> > Yah, but he SERIOUSLY needs to alter his configuration.. Look at the > List-Id header! The List-Id header is not at all suitable for procmail, > so I will have to do things by hand with the Sneder header (which GREATLY > complicates things with procmail...) > </RANT> *smile* ... anybody wanna have a go at telling me how to fix it ;P I'll go fix it now :) > > What we need: > > > > 1) Textures > > AOL. yes ... we hate them to .. but what do they have to do with textures ? > > 2) Models > > > > Models are a bit harder. TO have a usable game we need a player model, > > models for all the weapons, both 'in hand' and 'on the floor', models for > > the ammunition 'in flight', models for the ammo packs, models for keys and > > armor and misc objects, and models for monsters. > > The ammo pack models are pretty easy. => I'd _REALLY_ like right/left > handed weapons ala quake2/3 personally. I'd really like to make the > player model as close to Id's as possible for reasons of skin > compatibility. We can try .... > > 3) Maps > > > > There are *loads* of maps out there. The only problem is that many of > > them are not intended for commericial use. See the next section: > > Obviously we need a couple DM maps. TF would be nifty too. And I think a > single player episode or two would be a good thing. > Henti |
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From: Joseph C. <kng...@de...> - 2000-01-24 08:46:20
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On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 07:35:05AM +0200, Henti Smith wrote: > > AOL. >=20 > yes ... we hate them to .. but what do they have to do with textures ?=20 Translate as "I agree with everything above said (but not quoted)" --=20 Joseph Carter <kng...@de...> Debian Linux developer http://tank.debian.net GnuPG key pub 1024D/DCF9DAB3 sub 2048g/3F9C2A43 http://www.debian.org 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 <zarkov> "NT 5.0. All the bugs and ten times the code size!" |
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From: Henti S. <he...@is...> - 2000-01-24 08:53:47
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On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:47:26AM -0800, Joseph Carter wrote: > On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 07:35:05AM +0200, Henti Smith wrote: > > > AOL. > > > > yes ... we hate them to .. but what do they have to do with textures ? > > Translate as "I agree with everything above said (but not quoted)" ahhh .. ok :)) was just joking .. but I didn;'t knwo what I ment ;P Henti > > -- > Joseph Carter <kng...@de...> Debian Linux developer > http://tank.debian.net GnuPG key pub 1024D/DCF9DAB3 sub 2048g/3F9C2A43 > http://www.debian.org 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 > > <zarkov> "NT 5.0. All the bugs and ten times the code size!" > |
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