Why no compiled win32 exist & x-flow hides it

  • Ari.J

    Ari.J - 2005-03-28

    I wonder when I saw there are any unix platform version of OpenFlower, but not any windows one?!

    Why many people are just jealous to Bill Gates, while 90% of people around the world happily using such a chip, graphical and user-friendly system of windows rather than boring, expensive, typing command systems of unix!

    BTW, if you think only Bill Gates is rich, you might better know that Linus Torvalds, the inventor of Linux has a worth more than $40 million!

    And more strange is that why people like x-flow when can compile OpenFlower even by asking help from main programmers, then they refuse to share their compiled version and give it to others!?
    Why? when OpenFlower is an open source!

    • Alberto

      Alberto - 2005-03-28

      OpenFlower was born and is developed under Linux. This is the main reason why OpenFlower exists, in its official release, only for Linux.
      Linux is freely available to everyone, it's open source, while to compile an executable for Microsoft Windows, you need, first of all, a Windows licence, then a Microsoft Visual C++ licence (or equivalent), which are not free at all.

      I think Unix/Linux is the best choice for a CFD code, not only because it is free, but because of its scalability, and the possibility to easily create clusters, which allow to manage big computational domains.
      You could say it's possible to do that also under Windows. I know, but Windows on servers has worse performance, it doesn't manage hardware resources properly and, last but no least, the licensing cost is too high.
      Look around, and you'll see that all the most important CFD codes and tools, like FLUENT, CFX and many others, were born on Unix/Linux, or run on a set of Unix systems.

      The problems you encounter when you try to compile OpenFlower, or another software for Unix/Linux, which usually are written in pure standard C/C++, are, in most cases related to a bad implementation of the standard C/C++ in Microsoft Visual C++ compiler.

      If a user creates a compiled copy of an open source software for another operating system, like Windows, it's his choice to distribuite it or not. The GPL licence doesn't impose that at all, obviously.

      Best regards,

    • Ari.J

      Ari.J - 2005-03-31

      First of all, I have never paid any windows programs! Always they came when I ordered a new computer!
      There was no extra price for windows software and I could order the computer either with windows or linux with the same price!
      Even this time when I ordered the computer, I asked the seller and I got visual C++, all microsoft office and dozens of other softwares for free!!
      Also we all know that there are millions of freeware/shareware useful applications exist for windows and not for linux!

      In commercial world there is a different story both win and linux, they are not free. Also people who e.g. want to upgrade their
      computer from win 98 to win 2000, they have to obviously pay for the work done for its development, the same for linux.

      The successful key of Windows is its user-friendly environment. So for many years, unix users hided their knowledge and
      normal people always had to beg them to help! Nowadays if there is a mystery or question in software, if object oriented
      environment cannot help, it can be easily solved by just going to a public forum.

      I also don't agree with you about the low performance of windows! Windows 2000 has a very good memory manager and much better
      graphic management and it is very stable. I have easily used MPI with that and developed a lot!

      I can't forget many times in unix I got headache until I could find my mouse curser that often disappeared while I had a couple of open
      applications or heavy calculations. Moreover, many times, bottoms didn't work properly, even in fluent I had many times crash and difficulties!
      We had very expensive unix workstation machines in the department that each had a cost equivalent to 10 pcs!
      Don't forget that many people waste more than half of their time to just learn how to use programs in linux/unix environment!
      I remember when I used linux and used its open office, I had many problems, and it had many weakness, so no body could help in many manners.
      I had also some technical problems with microsoft word, but I found many guys in a forum who simply wrote for free to me useful VB macro codes
      that very easily solved the problems.

      Linux has its own problems, it crazily uses the hard disk and decreases its life and it has slow response graphic.
      A very famous linux/unix problem, is LaTex!, look how it is quietly going away in science world, as nowadays, scientific word, latex for windows
      and word_tex converters are substituting the stupid complicated word processing in to microsoft object orienting environment.

      The big softwares of cfx and fluent are written in unix, but as you look around, there are policies for university departments to move away from
      expensive complicated unix to chip useful windows pc!

      Yes I think the golden time of mastering is ending for unix users. At max they must use cygwin under windows!

      Again about x-flow: I wouldn't blame him if he initially wouldn't pretend in public that he will send the software to the people by email. But he doesn't send!

      Kind regards,


    • Alberto

      Alberto - 2005-03-31

      Hi Ari,
      if you had never paid for Windows software there are two possibilities:

      1. You actually paid the licenses fees which were hidden in the price of the PC.

      2. You didn't paid the licenses of the software, so your copy of the software is not legal.

      I'm waiting for a list of examples of freeware application which doesn't exist under Linux.

      Nowadays you can find a complete documentation of almost each part of linux, from the kernel to the smallest application. Just look for it on the Internet.
      On Windows, you just rely on Microsoft documentation, which is far from complete. Windows API is not that well documented!

      Windows 2000 has lower performance than UNIX/Linux on heavy calculations. You can't disable the graphical interface on a server or a cluster, and it definetly requires more hardware resources. These are facts.
      For stability, Windows has so many flaws and security problems, that can't be considered stable. Just compare the uptime of Windows servers to those of Unix/Linux servers at netcraft.

      Unix workstations? Linux works on almost each PC, you don't need special hardware.

      Your statements make me thinks you tried Linux many years ago. There are distributions like SuSE, Mandrake, Novell Linux Desktop that are really friendly. I installed them on some PC for students and they use it for all their tasks, without training and without loss in productivity.

      FLUENT has its problems both on Windows and on Linux, but the Windows version has more bugs. It's evident from fluentusers forums.

      Linux crazily uses the hard disk? Sorry, but Windows uses the swap file much more than Linux. Nowadays Linux supports the power management as Windows does, so the problem doesn't exist.

      LaTeX. Each serious scientific paper is written or rewritten by the editor using LaTeX. Just consider, for example, Elsevier, which suggests the use of its LaTeX model to write articles.
      The quality of the documents produced by LaTeX is definitely higher than those made with any other word processors.
      I wouldn't say it's declining at all.
      Writing a long text or a book with Microsoft Word is just impossible, if you want a standard format and, anyway, it's too time consuming. Everytime you have to adapt the formats, to put the figures in the right place and so on.

      Sorry, but the actual tendency is just the opposite. Universities are considering the open source as a solution to the problem of the expensive microsoft licenses. There is no point.

      Unix and Linux don't require dedicated hardware, so your statement on the cost of Windows PC's against Unix/Linux workstation is just false.
      Some examples. I have a DELL PC which perfectly works with SuSE Linux. Same for my Dell Inspiron notebook (I'm writing from Firefox, in linux). Our cluster is made with common Intel processors and it uses Linux too.

      Linux is not free in the "commercial" world? Linux exists in different forms. You can choose a free distribution like Debian, which has a exhaustive documentation, or a commercial distribution like SuSE, Red Hat, Novell and so on, which are fully supported and whose cost is far lower than the equivalent Windows product.

      Again: the code of OpenFlower is open. You can compile it by yourself.
      OpenFlower team doesn't support the Windows version from the beginning. And x-flow has no obligation to e-mail it.
      If you need the code, just e-mail him, and ask if he can send it to you.

      Best regards,

    • Ari.J

      Ari.J - 2005-04-05

      Always the computers I have bought had microsoft windows price included in them! And they had exactly the same price with linux!

      Just go and see so many sites such as www.shareware.com, www.tucows.com, www.download.com etc., and see how much the windows apps are more than linux ones! Even in download.com there is not any name of linux!

      About the tendency of the OS and laTeX, still I tell you honestly that, there is a very strong tendency toward the windows!

      I remember 15 years ago, there were people who said, only TeX and not any thing else like latex etc., but where are they now? Amonfg the tex users how many percent are using TeX, and how many latex and how many MTeX etc.? And come and see now adays how many people write their phd thesis or papers with msword!

      About the windows hard disk usage, I have a floating paging and I have never heard of any noise from hard disk ever! But in our department, new computers with SuSe linux, just opens one terminals and prrrrrr the hard disk blows! I doubt what if I would have 20 open programs!

      You just see around yourself but if you simply look at the statistics and counters around the globe, you will find out that more than 90% of the world's PCs are using microsoft windows!

      I know it's sad, but unfortunately windows is the most popular!

      Best regards,


    • Alberto

      Alberto - 2005-04-08

      You talked about "windows software" in general. Microsoft Windows is the operating system. It doesn't contain Microsoft Office, it doesn't contain Adobe Photoshop, it doesn't contain compilers and so on.
      If you know a place where you can buy a Windows PC with all this software at the same price of a Linux PC, I would like to see it.
      Anyway, the price of a Linux PC it's a choice of the PC vendor. Usually you can buy a PC without an operating system at a lower price.

      My question about free software was different. I would like to see a list of free software for Windows WITHOUT an equivalent on Linux. It's not important to have 1000 softwares with the same functions, you need just one wich works properly ;-)

      LaTeX is actually the main instruments to write scientific publication of high quality. Reproducing the same uniform style in Microsoft Word is apparently easier, but actually it's more time consuming even if you use Word's Templates and styles. Everytime you have to properly set the image position and size. You do the same for tables and equations. Writing references in Word with proper numeration in the text is just a pain. With LaTeX (which can be also generated in some visual editor) you just do it. You don't have to think to the layout of your document. You decide it once, and it will be applied to all your document. Equations, figures and tables are properly placed in the document, and you can easily refer to them without any problem.
      Moder versions of LaTeX also directly generates PDF with hyperlinks and bookmarks.

      I know many people use Word to write scientific works. You recognize them at kilometers of distance. Just compare two complex equations in the document and you'll see the difference.

      For the swap file, I'd tell the same about Windows. However, I would like to know what kind of configuration have the PC's with this problem under SuSE Linux, and also which version of SuSE Linux you're using.
      Remember that Linux sometimes does automatic mainteinance operations, so you might confuse swap activity with periodic operations, which, however, should be relatively short and not frequent.

      I know Windows is the most common operating system on PC's, and this is the reason of many problems we have, due to Windows vulnerabilities.
      If I look around myself I see a lot of people who uses Windows and is affected by a lot of security and stability problems. But what is worse is that many of these people thinks there is no alternative to Windows. Just not true!

      The reasons are of the diffusion of Windows surely are in its simplicity, but also in the monopolistic position of Microsoft.

      Popularity doesn't mean quality at all :-)


    • x-flow

      x-flow - 2005-04-25


      First of all, I tried to send the code to your e-mail but it is not working, so it is not my fault!!!

      I did not hide anything. You can easily adapt the v0.3 to compile in VC++ downloading the linux code and following the discussion provided in this forum.

      I also think that the windows version should be posted here at sourceforge.

      Ari. J. you can do what I did. Install a linux system and enable dual-boot with windows. This way you will have the best of both worlds.


    • Alberto

      Alberto - 2005-04-26

      Hi x-flow. How are you? Thank you for your answer :-)

      Try to ask to Vortexflow if he can host the Windows version, if you haven't already done.
      I could host it on my personal web-site, but the bandwidth is not very high (brrrr...helping to spread Windows software. Maybe I'm not in shape :-P)



    • x-flow

      x-flow - 2005-04-26

      Hi ap78,

      I am fine thanks, just very busy.

      I assume that there is no windows version here because there is nobody whiling to maintain it afterwards. However, by having a windows version I think more developers can gain interest to the project.

      I am a windows programmer myself, linux is still very dificult for me. However, I am learning Qt so that I don't have to worry with the specific API issues.

      I have sent the code to openflower@gmail.com.


    • Alberto

      Alberto - 2005-04-26

      Yes, I agree with you. The main problem of the Windows version is to mantain it. Mantaining a Windows version means you have to buy a C++ compiler for Windows, which is not free of charge at all, and I don't think it's affordable for an open project like this, which is at the beginning of its development.
      Moreover Microsoft C++ is not completly compatible with the standards, so it's not that easy to port a C++ application developed on UNIX/Linux to Windows.

      I know Linux is a bit difficult at first. It's such a wide world that is overwelming. But it offers great opportunities.
      I know it's OT, but I would like to know what's your linux distribution, what are the main difficulties you're meeting using Linux, and what applications you need aren't available under Linux.

      Qt is a good choice and it's graphical IDE is ok. But if you want to develop commercial applications, you need to buy the licence. GTK+ is completely open and allows you to develop commercial applications too. In my opinion GTK+ is a bit more complex, but more stable than Qt.
      The new Anjuta 2 IDE is coming and it will provide full integration with glade, the graphical tool to create gtk applications.

      Thanks in advance for your answer.

      Best regards,

    • Ari.J

      Ari.J - 2005-05-20

      Hello X-Flow,
      Here is my email: "ari_jas at yahoo.com" .

      please remember to put @ instead of at.

      Thank you in advance for sending me compiled version of openflower files.



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