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From: Jeremy H. <jh...@li...> - 2002-05-04 20:26:59
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To me it would make sense to have something along the lines of: OpenCD Corporate Backend - Apache - mySQL - PHP - Perl - etc. OpenCD Corporate Frontend - Mozilla - ABIWord - Gnumeric - etc. OpenCD Home - Games - Mozilla - ABIWord - Gnumeric - XMMS - Sylpheed - etc. The ups are: 1) Release more "useful" packages per recipient 2) Allows more room, per CD, for source code (c'mon, distribute open source software without the source? Keep in mind OpenCD will embody the meaning of opensource to most recipients) The downs are: - Each corporate user will probably request twice as many CDs as non-corporate (because of course they will want apache AND the games) - More CDs to make But this seems like the way to go. Thanks! jeremy |
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From: Steve M. <st...@op...> - 2002-05-04 20:52:18
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This is a smart idea. What exactly is the distribution plan for the CD? Is there one? If the wind blows the right way over the next few weeks I may be in a postion to distribute these CD's without cost in the somewhat near future. Let me repeat.... without cost. On Saturday 04 May 2002 05:22 pm, Jeremy Hise wrote: > To me it would make sense to have something along the lines of: > > OpenCD Corporate Backend > - Apache > - mySQL > - PHP > - Perl > - etc. > > OpenCD Corporate Frontend > - Mozilla > - ABIWord > - Gnumeric > - etc. > > OpenCD Home > - Games > - Mozilla > - ABIWord > - Gnumeric > - XMMS > - Sylpheed > - etc. > > The ups are: > 1) Release more "useful" packages per recipient > 2) Allows more room, per CD, for source code (c'mon, distribute open source > software without the source? Keep in mind OpenCD will embody the meaning of > opensource to most recipients) > > The downs are: > - Each corporate user will probably request twice as many CDs as > non-corporate (because of course they will want apache AND the games) - > More CDs to make > > But this seems like the way to go. > > Thanks! > > jeremy > > _______________________________________________________________ > > Have big pipes? SourceForge.net is looking for download mirrors. We supply > the hardware. You get the recognition. Email Us: ban...@so... > _______________________________________________ > Opencd-devel mailing list > Ope...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opencd-devel -- Steve Mallett | http://OSDir.org - Just Stable, Open Source Apps st...@op... | web...@op... http://open5ource.net <personal> "To use Linux without criticizing it is to betray it." -Clay Shirky |
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From: Henrik N. O. <h....@bt...> - 2002-05-04 21:00:33
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On Sat, 2002-05-04 at 09:51, Steve Mallett wrote: > This is a smart idea. What exactly is the distribution plan for the CD? Is > there one? > > If the wind blows the right way over the next few weeks I may be in a postion > to distribute these CD's without cost in the somewhat near future. Let me > repeat.... without cost. Hmmm... I'm hoping you'll tell us more :) > On Saturday 04 May 2002 05:22 pm, Jeremy Hise wrote: > > To me it would make sense to have something along the lines of: > > > > OpenCD Corporate Backend > > - Apache > > - mySQL > > - PHP > > - Perl > > - etc. > > > > OpenCD Corporate Frontend > > - Mozilla > > - ABIWord > > - Gnumeric > > - etc. > > > > OpenCD Home > > - Games > > - Mozilla > > - ABIWord > > - Gnumeric > > - XMMS > > - Sylpheed > > - etc. > > > > The ups are: > > 1) Release more "useful" packages per recipient > > 2) Allows more room, per CD, for source code (c'mon, distribute open source > > software without the source? Keep in mind OpenCD will embody the meaning of > > opensource to most recipients) > > > > The downs are: > > - Each corporate user will probably request twice as many CDs as > > non-corporate (because of course they will want apache AND the games) - > > More CDs to make > > > > But this seems like the way to go. > > > > Thanks! > > > > jeremy > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > > > Have big pipes? SourceForge.net is looking for download mirrors. We supply > > the hardware. You get the recognition. Email Us: ban...@so... > > _______________________________________________ > > Opencd-devel mailing list > > Ope...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opencd-devel > > -- > Steve Mallett | http://OSDir.org - Just Stable, Open Source Apps > st...@op... | web...@op... > http://open5ource.net <personal> > > "To use Linux without criticizing it is to betray it." > -Clay Shirky > > _______________________________________________________________ > > Have big pipes? SourceForge.net is looking for download mirrors. We supply > the hardware. You get the recognition. Email Us: ban...@so... > _______________________________________________ > Opencd-devel mailing list > Ope...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opencd-devel -- Henrik Nilsen Omma Theoretical Physics, Oxford 35 Frenchay Road 1 Keble Road Oxford OX2 6TG Oxford OX1 3NP h....@bt... he...@th... |
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From: Henrik N. O. <h....@bt...> - 2002-05-04 20:59:04
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Interesting idea. Once we have the installer stuff sorted out it's really not much more work to make 3 versions. Other plusses: 1) Having the Corporate Backend version allows us to push some of the really heavy hitters like Apache and mySQL, without worrying about confusing the novice user. It would also be good to associate the OpenCD project with these apps because of their good reputation. 2) Each category can have different criteria. The Home verion must stress simplicity while the Backend reliability, etc. In total, this would allow many more apps to qualify. Let's add a developers set also, that contains all the free devel tools which are relevant for the development of the apps on the other CDs. Then everyone can get their favorites included, like Emacs and gcc. I'm not sure the source needs to be on the Home or Front End CDs, perhaps that can go on the Development one. But, yes I agree, the source should be available in some convenient format. - Henrik On Sat, 2002-05-04 at 21:22, Jeremy Hise wrote: > To me it would make sense to have something along the lines of: > > OpenCD Corporate Backend > - Apache > - mySQL > - PHP > - Perl > - etc. > > OpenCD Corporate Frontend > - Mozilla > - ABIWord > - Gnumeric > - etc. > > OpenCD Home > - Games > - Mozilla > - ABIWord > - Gnumeric > - XMMS > - Sylpheed > - etc. > > The ups are: > 1) Release more "useful" packages per recipient > 2) Allows more room, per CD, for source code (c'mon, distribute open source software without the source? Keep in mind OpenCD will embody the meaning of opensource to most recipients) > > The downs are: > - Each corporate user will probably request twice as many CDs as non-corporate (because of course they will want apache AND the games) > - More CDs to make > > But this seems like the way to go. > > Thanks! > > jeremy > > _______________________________________________________________ > > Have big pipes? SourceForge.net is looking for download mirrors. We supply > the hardware. You get the recognition. Email Us: ban...@so... > _______________________________________________ > Opencd-devel mailing list > Ope...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opencd-devel -- Henrik Nilsen Omma Theoretical Physics, Oxford 35 Frenchay Road 1 Keble Road Oxford OX2 6TG Oxford OX1 3NP h....@bt... he...@th... |
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From: Imran G. <im...@bi...> - 2002-05-04 23:43:10
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On 4 May 2002, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > > Interesting idea. Once we have the installer stuff sorted out it's > really not much more work to make 3 versions. Other plusses: > > 1) Having the Corporate Backend version allows us to push some of the > really heavy hitters like Apache and mySQL, without worrying about > confusing the novice user. It would also be good to associate the > OpenCD project with these apps because of their good reputation. > > 2) Each category can have different criteria. The Home verion must > stress simplicity while the Backend reliability, etc. In total, this > would allow many more apps to qualify. I've been doing some number crunching and found that their exists about 240mb of programs that could go on the CD, excluding most programming type software, but including some server software (Apache, MySQL, PHP and Perl). So I don't think at this stage we need to break them off into seperate CDs just seperate sections. (I'll make a breakup of the figure available later today) On another note at 240mb range we could reasonably include source. Imran |
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From: Bill R. <bil...@dn...> - 2002-05-05 00:14:48
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This flavor business is veering wildly off the original mark: to provide open source programs for the typical windows user. This means one flavor not several. Once the one flavor is out and in distribution, then focusing other flavors on smaller audiences makes sense but until the original purpose for this whole project is served, multiple flavors just detracts. bill r ----- Original Message ----- From: "Imran Ghory" <im...@bi...> To: "Henrik Nilsen Omma" <h....@bt...> Cc: "Jeremy Hise" <jh...@li...>; "opencd-devel" <ope...@li...> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Opencd-devel] What about flavors? > On 4 May 2002, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > > > > > Interesting idea. Once we have the installer stuff sorted out it's > > really not much more work to make 3 versions. Other plusses: > > > > 1) Having the Corporate Backend version allows us to push some of the > > really heavy hitters like Apache and mySQL, without worrying about > > confusing the novice user. It would also be good to associate the > > OpenCD project with these apps because of their good reputation. > > > > 2) Each category can have different criteria. The Home verion must > > stress simplicity while the Backend reliability, etc. In total, this > > would allow many more apps to qualify. > > I've been doing some number crunching and found that their exists about > 240mb of programs that could go on the CD, excluding most programming type > software, but including some server software (Apache, MySQL, PHP and > Perl). So I don't think at this stage we need to break them off into > seperate CDs just seperate sections. > > (I'll make a breakup of the figure available later today) > > On another note at 240mb range we could reasonably include source. > > Imran > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > Have big pipes? SourceForge.net is looking for download mirrors. We supply > the hardware. You get the recognition. Email Us: ban...@so... > _______________________________________________ > Opencd-devel mailing list > Ope...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opencd-devel > |
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From: Steve M. <st...@op...> - 2002-05-05 00:39:04
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On Saturday 04 May 2002 09:20 pm, Bill Rees wrote: > This flavor business is veering wildly off the original mark: to provide > open source programs for the typical windows user. This means one flavor > not several. Once the one flavor is out and in distribution, then focusing > other flavors on smaller audiences makes sense but until the original > purpose for this whole project is served, multiple flavors just detracts. I find large IT depts are actually 'average' users with a certificate of some kind. They are all over the spectrum, unfortunately. However, that being said, would a "desktop user" use 750M of a CD on desktop apps? Really..? Legit Question. Perhaps the underlying idea here is that we have a limited resource... a CD. If a desktop users isn't going to take up an entire CD. And I have doubts that it would (but am willing to admit being wrong if you'd like to do the math), then _why not_ cram "other" flavors in there until we are forced to re-evalute the scope of what we have to work with. Perhaps at that time we will have more to work with too. No? -- Steve Mallett | http://OSDir.org - Just Stable, Open Source Apps st...@op... | web...@op... http://open5ource.net <personal> "To use Linux without criticizing it is to betray it." -Clay Shirky |
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From: Bill R. <bil...@dn...> - 2002-05-05 01:14:59
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> On Saturday 04 May 2002 09:20 pm, Bill Rees wrote: > > This flavor business is veering wildly off the original mark: to provide > > open source programs for the typical windows user. This means one flavor > > not several. Once the one flavor is out and in distribution, then focusing > > other flavors on smaller audiences makes sense but until the original > > purpose for this whole project is served, multiple flavors just detracts. > > I find large IT depts are actually 'average' users with a certificate of some > kind. They are all over the spectrum, unfortunately. > > However, that being said, would a "desktop user" use 750M of a CD on desktop > apps? Really..? Legit Question. Actually I think this is a bad question. First of all, what difference does the excess space make when you're focusing on delivering a CD of open source apps to the desktop user? The sole issue is delivering to that user the apps that they may not know anything about in a package that makes the experience easy, enjoyable, encouraging and educational (at least to the scope of OS Apps). The real question you've asked here is who the CD is targeted to: large IT departments or desktop users? > > Perhaps the underlying idea here is that we have a limited resource... a CD. > If a desktop users isn't going to take up an entire CD. And I have doubts > that it would (but am willing to admit being wrong if you'd like to do the > math), then _why not_ cram "other" flavors in there until we are forced to > re-evalute the scope of what we have to work with. > > Perhaps at that time we will have more to work with too. No? Yes the resource is limited but the resource, in my opinion, is our time and focus not the size of the apps or the space leftover. The more time we spend spreading our time among disparate populations, the more likely we will end up with a product that lacks the focus and desired affect that started this whole discussion. So let's not even think seriously (as opposed to noting ideas for later examination) about trying to cram as much as possible onto this CD and instead focus on what's the minimum we want to put onto the cd? What're the most important goals? |
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From: Steve M. <st...@op...> - 2002-05-05 00:32:33
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On Saturday 04 May 2002 08:40 pm, Imran Ghory wrote: > On 4 May 2002, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > > Interesting idea. Once we have the installer stuff sorted out it's > > really not much more work to make 3 versions. Other plusses: > > > > 1) Having the Corporate Backend version allows us to push some of the > > really heavy hitters like Apache and mySQL, without worrying about > > confusing the novice user. It would also be good to associate the > > OpenCD project with these apps because of their good reputation. > > > > 2) Each category can have different criteria. The Home verion must > > stress simplicity while the Backend reliability, etc. In total, this > > would allow many more apps to qualify. > > I've been doing some number crunching and found that their exists about > 240mb of programs that could go on the CD, excluding most programming type > software, but including some server software (Apache, MySQL, PHP and > Perl). So I don't think at this stage we need to break them off into > seperate CDs just seperate sections. I have bad news. PHP isn't actually opensource. GASP! Yes, its true, but a technicality of one of the minor and ofter ignored clauses of the Open Source Definition....having you agree to another license other than the one provided with the program. I believe it is not 'free' either (However, I understand that it is being changed). I think it was that one.... I don't want to be picky, but we should cover the bases. blah blah blah. I've been pushing the OSI http://opensource.org to get popular 'programs and langs etc' 'open source certified' so minor errors like this don't occur. How many of you would have bet otherwise?? -- Steve Mallett | http://OSDir.org - Just Stable, Open Source Apps st...@op... | web...@op... http://open5ource.net <personal> "To use Linux without criticizing it is to betray it." -Clay Shirky |
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From: Imran G. <im...@bi...> - 2002-05-05 12:32:18
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On Sat, 4 May 2002, Steve Mallett wrote: > On Saturday 04 May 2002 08:40 pm, Imran Ghory wrote: > > On 4 May 2002, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > > > Interesting idea. Once we have the installer stuff sorted out it's > > > really not much more work to make 3 versions. Other plusses: > > > > > > 1) Having the Corporate Backend version allows us to push some of the > > > really heavy hitters like Apache and mySQL, without worrying about > > > confusing the novice user. It would also be good to associate the > > > OpenCD project with these apps because of their good reputation. > > > > > > 2) Each category can have different criteria. The Home verion must > > > stress simplicity while the Backend reliability, etc. In total, this > > > would allow many more apps to qualify. > > > > I've been doing some number crunching and found that their exists about > > 240mb of programs that could go on the CD, excluding most programming type > > software, but including some server software (Apache, MySQL, PHP and > > Perl). So I don't think at this stage we need to break them off into > > seperate CDs just seperate sections. > > I have bad news. PHP isn't actually opensource. GASP! Yes, its true, but a > technicality of one of the minor and ofter ignored clauses of the Open > Source Definition....having you agree to another license other than the one > provided with the program. I believe it is not 'free' either (However, I > understand that it is being changed). PHP 3 was dual licence under the GPL and PHP licence, clearly making it both free and open source. PHP4 switched to the PHP Licence v2 which is copyleft, but with the exclusion of the Zend Engine which is under QPL which the FSF regard as non-free but the OSI regard as open source. I assume the problem is caused by the inclusion of Zend under QPL if seperated from PHP is the problem, but couldn't we solve that problem by including the QPL with the program ? Imran |
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From: Alex R. <tun...@pa...> - 2002-05-05 02:09:24
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Imran Ghory wrote: > > On 4 May 2002, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > > > > > Interesting idea. Once we have the installer stuff sorted out it's > > really not much more work to make 3 versions. Other plusses: > > > > 1) Having the Corporate Backend version allows us to push some of the > > really heavy hitters like Apache and mySQL, without worrying about > > confusing the novice user. It would also be good to associate the > > OpenCD project with these apps because of their good reputation. > > > > 2) Each category can have different criteria. The Home verion must > > stress simplicity while the Backend reliability, etc. In total, this > > would allow many more apps to qualify. > > I've been doing some number crunching and found that their exists about > 240mb of programs that could go on the CD, excluding most programming type > software, but including some server software (Apache, MySQL, PHP and > Perl). So I don't think at this stage we need to break them off into > seperate CDs just seperate sections. > > (I'll make a breakup of the figure available later today) > > On another note at 240mb range we could reasonably include source. Or maybe a question at the beginning of the installation, something like: "Where are you installing this software?" (Click on) "Home" "Office" "Backend Server" Alex |
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From: Toby I. <to...@go...> - 2002-05-05 18:32:23
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On Sat, 4 May 2002 16:22:37 -0400
Jeremy Hise <jh...@li...> wrote:
JH> OpenCD Corporate Backend
JH> - Apache
JH> - mySQL
JH> - PHP
JH> - Perl
JH> - etc.
I have several problems with "professional" versions of TheOpenCD:
1) This is the big one. The sort of people who would want to use Apache, mySQL (PostgreSQL is better IMHO anyway, but I won't get in to that as it doesn't have a Win32 version), etc are the kind of people who *already* know where to get them and how to install them.
2) It's confusing for the end user.
3) Too much more work.
--
Toby A Inkster, Esq. ~ http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/
mailto:tobyink<at>goddamn.co.uk ~ gpg:0x5274FE5A
jabber:tobyink<at>amessage.de ~ icq:6622880 ~ aim:inka80 ~ yahoo:tobyink
From a brochure of a car rental firm in Tokyo: When passenger of foot
heave in sight, tootle the horn. Trumpet him melodiously at first,
but if he still obstacles your passage then tootle him with vigor.
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From: Henrik N. O. <h....@bt...> - 2002-05-05 18:38:12
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On Sun, 2002-05-05 at 20:33, Toby Inkster wrote: > On Sat, 4 May 2002 16:22:37 -0400 > Jeremy Hise <jh...@li...> wrote: > > JH> OpenCD Corporate Backend > JH> - Apache > JH> - mySQL > JH> - PHP > JH> - Perl > JH> - etc. > > I have several problems with "professional" versions of TheOpenCD: > > 1) This is the big one. The sort of people who would want to use Apache, mySQL (PostgreSQL is better IMHO anyway, but I won't get in to that as it doesn't have a Win32 version), etc are the kind of people who *already* know where to get them and how to install them. AND these people really _should_ switch to Linux ... - Henrik -- Henrik Nilsen Omma Theoretical Physics, Oxford 35 Frenchay Road 1 Keble Road Oxford OX2 6TG Oxford OX1 3NP h....@bt... he...@th... |
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