I've recently changed my Galaxy s9+ for the last s21 ultra and I can't use the 108mp with the open camera app.
Is it supported yet ?
Very nice app anyway !
Thank you very much,
Kind regards
Kevin
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Anonymous
Anonymous
-
2021-04-24
Its good to understand, that your sensors is not essentially a 108MP sensor. Its a quad bayer sensor, its not really intended in producing 108MP images. As its impossible optically, you cant design lenses good enough to take use of pixel sizes that small.
What we need is a quad bayer support. The reason for the high MP count on these sensors is that it essentially has 2 sensors interleaved. It can take two photos simultaneously with 2 different exposure settings.
A 108MP sensor has to 27MP sensors interleaved. One 108MP with tiny pixel or one 12MP sensor with larger pixels (pixel binning). These are the modes we need manual control over.
The 108mp mode is pretty much useless, and generates images that have a huge quantity of "empty resolution". As the lens maxes out at around 12MP of resolution (this is just the limit of optical design).
This is also why the native app probably uses your quad bayer sensor more effectively, especially the HDR mode. Open camera essentially shows it as two separate cameras. and to my understanding, can't yet really use the functionalities of quad bayer.
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I think this would need support in the Android camera API (e.g., to take photos simultaneously with two different exposures on a quad bayer sensor), but yes these are interesting ideas of what might be possible in future.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
-
2022-09-05
I'm going to disagree. With tons of light (sunlight or flash), I use the 108MP mode at the closest focal distance to take pictures of tiny circuit components and crop the image out to fake macro on the Note 20 Ultra. Ironically the camera app switches to the main sensor when 5x telephoto camera is selected but focus is too close, but then digitally zooms the 12MP image instead of cropping leading to people thinking that the 5x does macro and the quality is horrible. While the lens probably isn't ideal, I can read print on ICs so small that my magnifying glass is useless. Raise the ISO at all or don't give it enough light and the noise levels make things pointless... and honestly outside of that one use-case, the files are pointless. I really don't need 12MP most of the time and was glad Samsung added the "resize" option to the image editor...
To capture .8um bayer elements (1.6um pixels) the lens needs to hit 625 l/mm or 312.5 lp/mm before the system is sensor limited, and at f/1.8 the diffraction limit is ~1000 so there's really nothing but cost and manufacturing tolerances stopping a lens that can do this from existing... the fact that the lens is tiny makes the materials cost nearly irrelevant and I don't doubt that Samsung with their circuit fabs able to crank out memory on 5nm process or less has the expertise to make small lenses capable of 1000x less detail for cheap.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
-
2021-04-24
It actually seems to have a "nonacell" sensor, having 3x3=9 pixel structure. Not quad (tetracell) 2x2=4.
Its actually quite interesting tech. At first i was just laughing my ass off about these 40-100mp tiny sensors. But they do make sense, and give a lot more flexibility. I wonder if the nonacell sensor can be divided into 3 separate cameras to capture 3 separate exposures.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
-
2021-04-24
Try using Open Camera in the API2 mode, and see if you have 3 separate main cameras? I have a quad bayer camera, and it shows up as 2 separate main cameras.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
-
2021-04-25
No even while using API2 mode, i have only 2 camera :(
And none of them propose 108MP
Do you know if the developper of Open Camera is going to fix that ?
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If they don't show, it's because the device doesn't expose the cameras for third party applications.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
-
2021-08-07
Hi,
does this mean OpenCamera is limited to 12MP images, or are there devices on the market with say , 48MP or 64MP that can save these higher resolution imagery with OpenCamera ?
Thanks, Rob
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Anonymous
Anonymous
-
2021-08-09
The "quad" imaging chips from Samsung are the "limiting" factor. They do not produce the advertised massive amount of pixels, just one fourth of them or less.
One of my phones is Xiaomi Redmi Note 9 5G it has imaging chip from Samsung that Samsung itself advertises as follows: "The ISOCELL GM1 is a 48Mp image sensor with 12Mp output for taking brighter photographs".
The built-in camera app in Xiaomi then has a "special" "AI 48 MP" mode the (AI may mean Artificial Intelligence ...or Artistic Imagination). So, that mode is active, the camera app interpolates (scale up) the 12MP image by 2x2, resulting that 48 MP fake resolution.
And Open Camera faithfully produce the real 12 MP images.
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Hello
I've recently changed my Galaxy s9+ for the last s21 ultra and I can't use the 108mp with the open camera app.
Is it supported yet ?
Very nice app anyway !
Thank you very much,
Kind regards
Kevin
Its good to understand, that your sensors is not essentially a 108MP sensor. Its a quad bayer sensor, its not really intended in producing 108MP images. As its impossible optically, you cant design lenses good enough to take use of pixel sizes that small.
What we need is a quad bayer support. The reason for the high MP count on these sensors is that it essentially has 2 sensors interleaved. It can take two photos simultaneously with 2 different exposure settings.
A 108MP sensor has to 27MP sensors interleaved. One 108MP with tiny pixel or one 12MP sensor with larger pixels (pixel binning). These are the modes we need manual control over.
The 108mp mode is pretty much useless, and generates images that have a huge quantity of "empty resolution". As the lens maxes out at around 12MP of resolution (this is just the limit of optical design).
This is also why the native app probably uses your quad bayer sensor more effectively, especially the HDR mode. Open camera essentially shows it as two separate cameras. and to my understanding, can't yet really use the functionalities of quad bayer.
I think this would need support in the Android camera API (e.g., to take photos simultaneously with two different exposures on a quad bayer sensor), but yes these are interesting ideas of what might be possible in future.
Also see my replies at https://sourceforge.net/p/opencamera/discussion/features/thread/c42b9e8815/.
Last edit: Mark 2021-04-26
I'm going to disagree. With tons of light (sunlight or flash), I use the 108MP mode at the closest focal distance to take pictures of tiny circuit components and crop the image out to fake macro on the Note 20 Ultra. Ironically the camera app switches to the main sensor when 5x telephoto camera is selected but focus is too close, but then digitally zooms the 12MP image instead of cropping leading to people thinking that the 5x does macro and the quality is horrible. While the lens probably isn't ideal, I can read print on ICs so small that my magnifying glass is useless. Raise the ISO at all or don't give it enough light and the noise levels make things pointless... and honestly outside of that one use-case, the files are pointless. I really don't need 12MP most of the time and was glad Samsung added the "resize" option to the image editor...
To capture .8um bayer elements (1.6um pixels) the lens needs to hit 625 l/mm or 312.5 lp/mm before the system is sensor limited, and at f/1.8 the diffraction limit is ~1000 so there's really nothing but cost and manufacturing tolerances stopping a lens that can do this from existing... the fact that the lens is tiny makes the materials cost nearly irrelevant and I don't doubt that Samsung with their circuit fabs able to crank out memory on 5nm process or less has the expertise to make small lenses capable of 1000x less detail for cheap.
It actually seems to have a "nonacell" sensor, having 3x3=9 pixel structure. Not quad (tetracell) 2x2=4.
Its actually quite interesting tech. At first i was just laughing my ass off about these 40-100mp tiny sensors. But they do make sense, and give a lot more flexibility. I wonder if the nonacell sensor can be divided into 3 separate cameras to capture 3 separate exposures.
Try using Open Camera in the API2 mode, and see if you have 3 separate main cameras? I have a quad bayer camera, and it shows up as 2 separate main cameras.
No even while using API2 mode, i have only 2 camera :(
And none of them propose 108MP
Do you know if the developper of Open Camera is going to fix that ?
If they don't show, it's because the device doesn't expose the cameras for third party applications.
Hi,
does this mean OpenCamera is limited to 12MP images, or are there devices on the market with say , 48MP or 64MP that can save these higher resolution imagery with OpenCamera ?
Thanks, Rob
The "quad" imaging chips from Samsung are the "limiting" factor. They do not produce the advertised massive amount of pixels, just one fourth of them or less.
One of my phones is Xiaomi Redmi Note 9 5G it has imaging chip from Samsung that Samsung itself advertises as follows: "The ISOCELL GM1 is a 48Mp image sensor with 12Mp output for taking brighter photographs".
The built-in camera app in Xiaomi then has a "special" "AI 48 MP" mode the (AI may mean Artificial Intelligence ...or Artistic Imagination). So, that mode is active, the camera app interpolates (scale up) the 12MP image by 2x2, resulting that 48 MP fake resolution.
And Open Camera faithfully produce the real 12 MP images.
Please see my other message on this subject at: https://sourceforge.net/p/opencamera/discussion/features/thread/c42b9e8815/#dbba
Samsung's famous for their fake megapixel count it's always quite frustrating