open-rtms-list

[Open-rtms-list] Would infrared sensors work as contacts?

[Joley B. <bro...@co...>]

The magnetic coils is a really inexpensive model for the eeg output,
but would infrared perhaps give the same or perhaps more wide spread
Signal Out? It seems the coils give a narrower set of responses. I'm
probably a bit off the path on that. But IR sensors measure heat with
say, 1/100th of a degree F. What I would have to fill in with that
equation, how much heat would be generated, and how quickly, by any
small neural clusters? The reason I could most easily justify is that
the higher intensity from the sensor electromagnet might be hazardous.
It's one of the cautions of doing these measurements. An IR sensor would
be a lot more passive,yes? and calibrated to watch a wider scan of those
clusters, more of them. To a processor the output of light vs a more
intensive part of the electro-magnetic spectrum would be a set of
numbers. Like representing a melody in F minor being played in a higher
key. It's 0300 local time and I should get some sleep before looking at
this again.

Re: [Open-rtms-list] Would infrared sensors work as contacts?

[Aidan H. <aj...@bu...>]

No, infrared sensors / heat are a very different mechanism than magnetic
coils and electromagnetic induction. Infrared does not penetrate the scalp
like the magnetic fields are able to.

On Jan 15, 2017 5:10 AM, "Joley Brown" <bro...@co...> wrote:

> The magnetic coils is a really inexpensive model for the eeg output,
> but would infrared perhaps give the same or perhaps more wide spread
> Signal Out? It seems the coils give a narrower set of responses. I'm
> probably a bit off the path on that. But IR sensors measure heat with
> say, 1/100th of a degree F. What I would have to fill in with that
> equation, how much heat would be generated, and how quickly, by any
> small neural clusters? The reason I could most easily justify is that
> the higher intensity from the sensor electromagnet might be hazardous.
> It's one of the cautions of doing these measurements. An IR sensor would
> be a lot more passive,yes? and calibrated to watch a wider scan of those
> clusters, more of them. To a processor the output of light vs a more
> intensive part of the electro-magnetic spectrum would be a set of
> numbers. Like representing a melody in F minor being played in a higher
> key. It's 0300 local time and I should get some sleep before looking at
> this again.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
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>

Re: [Open-rtms-list] Would infrared sensors work as contacts?

[Alexander L. <ale...@gm...>]

Actually, infrared can penetrate the scalp (
http://authors.library.caltech.edu/58056/1/Yue_2015p93210S.pdf for an
example measurement), it just apparently gets very nonlocal due to
scattering and hence an array is much better than a targeted source
for illumination.

However, measuring neural activity through infrared light sounds
rather unfeasible, alone because of the scattering and distortion
through blood heat flow.
I'm not sure I quite understand why you think that a sensor
electromagnet would have an intensity, so far most EEGs I've heard of
have passive sensors that then amplify tiny signals given by the brain
in a circuit elsewhere; do people put a field on the sensors and if
so, why?
I don't think there is really any risk in using EEG sensors, or
couldn't think of one.

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Aidan Hoolachan <aj...@bu...> wrote:
> No, infrared sensors / heat are a very different mechanism than magnetic
> coils and electromagnetic induction. Infrared does not penetrate the scalp
> like the magnetic fields are able to.
>
> On Jan 15, 2017 5:10 AM, "Joley Brown" <bro...@co...> wrote:
>>
>> The magnetic coils is a really inexpensive model for the eeg output,
>> but would infrared perhaps give the same or perhaps more wide spread
>> Signal Out? It seems the coils give a narrower set of responses. I'm
>> probably a bit off the path on that. But IR sensors measure heat with
>> say, 1/100th of a degree F. What I would have to fill in with that
>> equation, how much heat would be generated, and how quickly, by any
>> small neural clusters? The reason I could most easily justify is that
>> the higher intensity from the sensor electromagnet might be hazardous.
>> It's one of the cautions of doing these measurements. An IR sensor would
>> be a lot more passive,yes? and calibrated to watch a wider scan of those
>> clusters, more of them. To a processor the output of light vs a more
>> intensive part of the electro-magnetic spectrum would be a set of
>> numbers. Like representing a melody in F minor being played in a higher
>> key. It's 0300 local time and I should get some sleep before looking at
>> this again.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _______________________________________________
>> Open-rtms-list mailing list
>> Ope...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/open-rtms-list
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
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Re: [Open-rtms-list] Would infrared sensors work as contacts?

[<no...@ti...>]

Unsubscribe

On January 15, 2017 8:45:59 AM EST, Alexander Liebendorfer <ale...@gm...> wrote:
>Actually, infrared can penetrate the scalp (
>http://authors.library.caltech.edu/58056/1/Yue_2015p93210S.pdf for an
>example measurement), it just apparently gets very nonlocal due to
>scattering and hence an array is much better than a targeted source
>for illumination.
>
>However, measuring neural activity through infrared light sounds
>rather unfeasible, alone because of the scattering and distortion
>through blood heat flow.
>I'm not sure I quite understand why you think that a sensor
>electromagnet would have an intensity, so far most EEGs I've heard of
>have passive sensors that then amplify tiny signals given by the brain
>in a circuit elsewhere; do people put a field on the sensors and if
>so, why?
>I don't think there is really any risk in using EEG sensors, or
>couldn't think of one.
>
>On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Aidan Hoolachan <aj...@bu...>
>wrote:
>> No, infrared sensors / heat are a very different mechanism than
>magnetic
>> coils and electromagnetic induction. Infrared does not penetrate the
>scalp
>> like the magnetic fields are able to.
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2017 5:10 AM, "Joley Brown" <bro...@co...>
>wrote:
>>>
>>> The magnetic coils is a really inexpensive model for the eeg output,
>>> but would infrared perhaps give the same or perhaps more wide spread
>>> Signal Out? It seems the coils give a narrower set of responses. I'm
>>> probably a bit off the path on that. But IR sensors measure heat
>with
>>> say, 1/100th of a degree F. What I would have to fill in with that
>>> equation, how much heat would be generated, and how quickly, by any
>>> small neural clusters? The reason I could most easily justify is
>that
>>> the higher intensity from the sensor electromagnet might be
>hazardous.
>>> It's one of the cautions of doing these measurements. An IR sensor
>would
>>> be a lot more passive,yes? and calibrated to watch a wider scan of
>those
>>> clusters, more of them. To a processor the output of light vs a more
>>> intensive part of the electro-magnetic spectrum would be a set of
>>> numbers. Like representing a melody in F minor being played in a
>higher
>>> key. It's 0300 local time and I should get some sleep before looking
>at
>>> this again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Open-rtms-list mailing list
>>> Ope...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/open-rtms-list
>>
>>
>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _______________________________________________
>> Open-rtms-list mailing list
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/open-rtms-list
>>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>Training and support from Colfax.
>Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>_______________________________________________
>Open-rtms-list mailing list
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Re: [Open-rtms-list] Would infrared sensors work as contacts?

[Abe S. <or...@gm...>]

I think the infrared sensors that they use for measuring bran activity
actually measure changes in blood flow, which, as you say, ends up covering
a larger area. The change in blood flow is also much slower than the
electrical potentials, so you can see broad regions becoming more or less
active (more activity -> more oxygen and glucose required -> more blood
flow) but you can't look for things like alpha waves.

-Abe


On Jan 15, 2017 8:47 AM, "Alexander Liebendorfer" <ale...@gm...>
wrote:

Actually, infrared can penetrate the scalp (
http://authors.library.caltech.edu/58056/1/Yue_2015p93210S.pdf for an
example measurement), it just apparently gets very nonlocal due to
scattering and hence an array is much better than a targeted source
for illumination.

However, measuring neural activity through infrared light sounds
rather unfeasible, alone because of the scattering and distortion
through blood heat flow.
I'm not sure I quite understand why you think that a sensor
electromagnet would have an intensity, so far most EEGs I've heard of
have passive sensors that then amplify tiny signals given by the brain
in a circuit elsewhere; do people put a field on the sensors and if
so, why?
I don't think there is really any risk in using EEG sensors, or
couldn't think of one.

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Aidan Hoolachan <aj...@bu...>
wrote:
> No, infrared sensors / heat are a very different mechanism than magnetic
> coils and electromagnetic induction. Infrared does not penetrate the scalp
> like the magnetic fields are able to.
>
> On Jan 15, 2017 5:10 AM, "Joley Brown" <bro...@co...> wrote:
>>
>> The magnetic coils is a really inexpensive model for the eeg output,
>> but would infrared perhaps give the same or perhaps more wide spread
>> Signal Out? It seems the coils give a narrower set of responses. I'm
>> probably a bit off the path on that. But IR sensors measure heat with
>> say, 1/100th of a degree F. What I would have to fill in with that
>> equation, how much heat would be generated, and how quickly, by any
>> small neural clusters? The reason I could most easily justify is that
>> the higher intensity from the sensor electromagnet might be hazardous.
>> It's one of the cautions of doing these measurements. An IR sensor would
>> be a lot more passive,yes? and calibrated to watch a wider scan of those
>> clusters, more of them. To a processor the output of light vs a more
>> intensive part of the electro-magnetic spectrum would be a set of
>> numbers. Like representing a melody in F minor being played in a higher
>> key. It's 0300 local time and I should get some sleep before looking at
>> this again.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _______________________________________________
>> Open-rtms-list mailing list
>> Ope...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/open-rtms-list
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> _______________________________________________
> Open-rtms-list mailing list
> Ope...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/open-rtms-list
>

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
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Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
Open-rtms-list mailing list
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Re: [Open-rtms-list] Would infrared sensors work as contacts?

[<no...@ti...>]

Unsubscribe

On January 15, 2017 9:02:43 AM EST, "Abe S." <or...@gm...> wrote:
>I think the infrared sensors that they use for measuring bran activity
>actually measure changes in blood flow, which, as you say, ends up
>covering
>a larger area. The change in blood flow is also much slower than the
>electrical potentials, so you can see broad regions becoming more or
>less
>active (more activity -> more oxygen and glucose required -> more blood
>flow) but you can't look for things like alpha waves.
>
>-Abe
>
>
>On Jan 15, 2017 8:47 AM, "Alexander Liebendorfer"
><ale...@gm...>
>wrote:
>
>Actually, infrared can penetrate the scalp (
>http://authors.library.caltech.edu/58056/1/Yue_2015p93210S.pdf for an
>example measurement), it just apparently gets very nonlocal due to
>scattering and hence an array is much better than a targeted source
>for illumination.
>
>However, measuring neural activity through infrared light sounds
>rather unfeasible, alone because of the scattering and distortion
>through blood heat flow.
>I'm not sure I quite understand why you think that a sensor
>electromagnet would have an intensity, so far most EEGs I've heard of
>have passive sensors that then amplify tiny signals given by the brain
>in a circuit elsewhere; do people put a field on the sensors and if
>so, why?
>I don't think there is really any risk in using EEG sensors, or
>couldn't think of one.
>
>On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Aidan Hoolachan <aj...@bu...>
>wrote:
>> No, infrared sensors / heat are a very different mechanism than
>magnetic
>> coils and electromagnetic induction. Infrared does not penetrate the
>scalp
>> like the magnetic fields are able to.
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2017 5:10 AM, "Joley Brown" <bro...@co...>
>wrote:
>>>
>>> The magnetic coils is a really inexpensive model for the eeg output,
>>> but would infrared perhaps give the same or perhaps more wide spread
>>> Signal Out? It seems the coils give a narrower set of responses. I'm
>>> probably a bit off the path on that. But IR sensors measure heat
>with
>>> say, 1/100th of a degree F. What I would have to fill in with that
>>> equation, how much heat would be generated, and how quickly, by any
>>> small neural clusters? The reason I could most easily justify is
>that
>>> the higher intensity from the sensor electromagnet might be
>hazardous.
>>> It's one of the cautions of doing these measurements. An IR sensor
>would
>>> be a lot more passive,yes? and calibrated to watch a wider scan of
>those
>>> clusters, more of them. To a processor the output of light vs a more
>>> intensive part of the electro-magnetic spectrum would be a set of
>>> numbers. Like representing a melody in F minor being played in a
>higher
>>> key. It's 0300 local time and I should get some sleep before looking
>at
>>> this again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------
>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Open-rtms-list mailing list
>>> Ope...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/open-rtms-list
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _______________________________________________
>> Open-rtms-list mailing list
>> Ope...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/open-rtms-list
>>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------
>Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>Training and support from Colfax.
>Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>_______________________________________________
>Open-rtms-list mailing list
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