From: Richard J. <ri...@an...> - 2004-08-04 11:20:46
|
The Dbi module in ExtLib has got out of synch with ocamldbi, and this is causing problems for packaging a Debian release of these two packages. I think all the ocamldbi code should either be completely in, or completely out of ExtLib. I don't mind either way, but I suspect people on this list will have their views. In the meantime, would it be too much trouble to produce an ExtLib 1.2.1 release which removes Dbi? Rich. -- Richard Jones. http://www.annexia.org/ http://www.j-london.com/ Merjis Ltd. http://www.merjis.com/ - improving website return on investment MONOLITH is an advanced framework for writing web applications in C, easier than using Perl & Java, much faster and smaller, reusable widget-based arch, database-backed, discussion, chat, calendaring: http://www.annexia.org/freeware/monolith/ |
From: Nicolas C. <war...@fr...> - 2004-08-04 12:23:22
|
> The Dbi module in ExtLib has got out of synch with ocamldbi, and this > is causing problems for packaging a Debian release of these two > packages. > > I think all the ocamldbi code should either be completely in, or > completely out of ExtLib. I don't mind either way, but I suspect > people on this list will have their views. > > In the meantime, would it be too much trouble to produce an ExtLib > 1.2.1 release which removes Dbi? > > Rich. Does a debian ExtLib 1.2.1 with up-to-date Dbi module would be possible ? I don't know if ExtLib 1.2 is available as Debian package. Nicolas Cannasse |
From: Richard J. <ri...@an...> - 2004-08-04 12:28:03
|
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:22:22PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: > > The Dbi module in ExtLib has got out of synch with ocamldbi, and this > > is causing problems for packaging a Debian release of these two > > packages. > > > > I think all the ocamldbi code should either be completely in, or > > completely out of ExtLib. I don't mind either way, but I suspect > > people on this list will have their views. > > > > In the meantime, would it be too much trouble to produce an ExtLib > > 1.2.1 release which removes Dbi? > > > > Rich. > > Does a debian ExtLib 1.2.1 with up-to-date Dbi module would be possible ? > I don't know if ExtLib 1.2 is available as Debian package. That would work too. The latest Dbi module is in this package: http://savannah.nongnu.org/download/modcaml/ocamldbi-0.9.8.tar.gz Rich. -- Richard Jones. http://www.annexia.org/ http://www.j-london.com/ Merjis Ltd. http://www.merjis.com/ - improving website return on investment http://www.YouUnlimited.co.uk/ - management courses |
From: Sven L. <sve...@wa...> - 2004-08-04 12:39:31
|
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 01:27:48PM +0100, Richard Jones wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:22:22PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: > > > The Dbi module in ExtLib has got out of synch with ocamldbi, and this > > > is causing problems for packaging a Debian release of these two > > > packages. > > > > > > I think all the ocamldbi code should either be completely in, or > > > completely out of ExtLib. I don't mind either way, but I suspect > > > people on this list will have their views. > > > > > > In the meantime, would it be too much trouble to produce an ExtLib > > > 1.2.1 release which removes Dbi? > > > > > > Rich. > > > > Does a debian ExtLib 1.2.1 with up-to-date Dbi module would be possible ? > > I don't know if ExtLib 1.2 is available as Debian package. Yes, i believe it is : http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/extlib/news/1.html > That would work too. The latest Dbi module is in this package: > > http://savannah.nongnu.org/download/modcaml/ocamldbi-0.9.8.tar.gz This would indeed be a solution, still i somehow fail to understand why debian has two copies of basically the same modules around. In any case, it would be nice that this happens before Stefano goes into vacations on the 6th or so. Friendly, Sven Luther |
From: Nicolas C. <war...@fr...> - 2004-08-04 12:53:49
|
> On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:22:22PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: > > > The Dbi module in ExtLib has got out of synch with ocamldbi, and this > > > is causing problems for packaging a Debian release of these two > > > packages. > > > > > > I think all the ocamldbi code should either be completely in, or > > > completely out of ExtLib. I don't mind either way, but I suspect > > > people on this list will have their views. > > > > > > In the meantime, would it be too much trouble to produce an ExtLib > > > 1.2.1 release which removes Dbi? > > > > > > Rich. > > > > Does a debian ExtLib 1.2.1 with up-to-date Dbi module would be possible ? > > I don't know if ExtLib 1.2 is available as Debian package. > > That would work too. The latest Dbi module is in this package: > > http://savannah.nongnu.org/download/modcaml/ocamldbi-0.9.8.tar.gz > > Rich. Dbi module is now up to date on CVS. Stefano Zacchiroli is Debian package maintainer of ExtLib, please contact him directly if you're in a hurry. For the future, you could maybe remove the DBI module from ocamldbi ? I would simplify updates but we will have to synchronize release of OCamlDBI ( which will be only bindings for specific database ) and ExtLib when the DBI module gets updated. (and it will also require users of OCamlDBI to get ExtLib :) Regards, Nicolas Cannasse |
From: John G. <jgo...@co...> - 2004-08-04 14:29:46
|
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:52:48PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: > For the future, you could maybe remove the DBI module from ocamldbi ? I'm confused. OcamlDBI *IS* DBI. Why would an end user look to ExtLib instead of OcamlDBI for that module? Wouldn't it complicate efforts of the OcamlDBI authors to evolve the system? Also, since the DBI module can't actually do anything without the OcamlDBI installation, what point is there to having it in ExtLib? -- John |
From: Jesse G. <je...@wi...> - 2004-08-04 15:03:54
|
John Goerzen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:52:48PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: >> For the future, you could maybe remove the DBI module from ocamldbi ? > > I'm confused. OcamlDBI *IS* DBI. Why would an end user look to ExtLib > instead of OcamlDBI for that module? Wouldn't it complicate efforts of > the OcamlDBI authors to evolve the system? Also, since the DBI module > can't actually do anything without the OcamlDBI installation, what point > is there to having it in ExtLib? > > -- John I'm confused on that point too. Personally, I'm ALL FOR having ocamldbi ENTIRELY in extlib. It makes it easy to download, easy to distribute, and easy to test for. (You have extlib? Great! You've got ocamldbi!) But if that isn't desired then I think it needs to be removed. I've run into these syncronization hassles on my own devel system, and it's a real pain. I can imagine how complicated it can get inside debian or another OS. -- Jesse Guardiani, Systems Administrator WingNET Internet Services, P.O. Box 2605 // Cleveland, TN 37320-2605 423-559-LINK (v) 423-559-5145 (f) http://www.wingnet.net |
From: Nicolas C. <war...@fr...> - 2004-08-04 15:11:57
|
> John Goerzen wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:52:48PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: > >> For the future, you could maybe remove the DBI module from ocamldbi ? > > > > I'm confused. OcamlDBI *IS* DBI. Why would an end user look to ExtLib > > instead of OcamlDBI for that module? Wouldn't it complicate efforts of > > the OcamlDBI authors to evolve the system? Also, since the DBI module > > can't actually do anything without the OcamlDBI installation, what point > > is there to having it in ExtLib? > > > > -- John > > I'm confused on that point too. Personally, I'm ALL FOR having ocamldbi > ENTIRELY in extlib. It makes it easy to download, easy to distribute, > and easy to test for. (You have extlib? Great! You've got ocamldbi!) ExtLib is generic usage, and should not provide "drivers" for any specific database you might use (especially when theses drivers are relying on C libraries that might not be portable or easy to build under all caml-supported systems). That's why decoupling the "interface" ( DBI module ) from the "drivers" (other OCamlDBI modules) makes sense. Regards, Nicolas Cannasse |
From: Jesse G. <je...@wi...> - 2004-08-04 15:33:26
|
Nicolas Cannasse wrote: >> John Goerzen wrote: >> >> > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:52:48PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: >> >> For the future, you could maybe remove the DBI module from ocamldbi ? >> > >> > I'm confused. OcamlDBI *IS* DBI. Why would an end user look to ExtLib >> > instead of OcamlDBI for that module? Wouldn't it complicate efforts of >> > the OcamlDBI authors to evolve the system? Also, since the DBI module >> > can't actually do anything without the OcamlDBI installation, what >> > point is there to having it in ExtLib? >> > >> > -- John >> >> I'm confused on that point too. Personally, I'm ALL FOR having ocamldbi >> ENTIRELY in extlib. It makes it easy to download, easy to distribute, >> and easy to test for. (You have extlib? Great! You've got ocamldbi!) > > ExtLib is generic usage, and should not provide "drivers" for any specific > database you might use (especially when theses drivers are relying on C > libraries that might not be portable or easy to build under all > caml-supported systems). That's why decoupling the "interface" ( DBI > module ) from the "drivers" (other OCamlDBI modules) makes sense. OK, then Mr. Jones needs to provide a release package of just his drivers, I guess. Or rip DBI out of extlib. It's a mess currently. -- Jesse Guardiani, Systems Administrator WingNET Internet Services, P.O. Box 2605 // Cleveland, TN 37320-2605 423-559-LINK (v) 423-559-5145 (f) http://www.wingnet.net |
From: Nicolas C. <war...@fr...> - 2004-08-04 15:08:37
|
> On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:52:48PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: > > For the future, you could maybe remove the DBI module from ocamldbi ? > > I'm confused. OcamlDBI *IS* DBI. Why would an end user look to ExtLib > instead of OcamlDBI for that module? Wouldn't it complicate efforts of > the OcamlDBI authors to evolve the system? Also, since the DBI module > can't actually do anything without the OcamlDBI installation, what point > is there to having it in ExtLib? > > -- John The idea was that the DBI module was standard common interface for accessing databases, and that OCamlDBI would provide accesses to some supported databases, while other people might provide other implementations for other databases using the DBI module in ExtLib. Having then the DBI module separate from OCamlDBI makes sense. However currently all supported databases are in OCamlDBI.... in the end I think it's up to Richard to decide what he wants for DBI / OcamlDBI. Regards, Nicolas Cannasse |
From: Richard J. <ri...@an...> - 2004-08-04 15:34:16
|
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 05:07:33PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: > The idea was that the DBI module was standard common interface for accessing > databases, and that OCamlDBI would provide accesses to some supported > databases, while other people might provide other implementations for other > databases using the DBI module in ExtLib. Having then the DBI module > separate from OCamlDBI makes sense. However currently all supported > databases are in OCamlDBI.... in the end I think it's up to Richard to > decide what he wants for DBI / OcamlDBI. This suggests removing Dbi from ocamldbi. However at the moment things are too prone to change to do that. Perhaps after 1.0.0 is released? Another data point in this discussion is that ocamldbi is pure OCaml, believe it or not. It relies on external C bindings provided by other libraries. So for example, the path to PostgreSQL is: Dbi_postgres -> Alaine Frische's Postgres -> libpq (This also explains why there are two PostgreSQL bindings, one of which is apparently not working, because Alaine's Postgres module was recently forked). Rich. -- Richard Jones. http://www.annexia.org/ http://www.j-london.com/ Merjis Ltd. http://www.merjis.com/ - improving website return on investment MOD_CAML lets you run type-safe Objective CAML programs inside the Apache webserver. http://www.merjis.com/developers/mod_caml/ |
From: Jesse G. <je...@wi...> - 2004-08-04 15:38:56
|
Richard Jones wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 05:07:33PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: >> The idea was that the DBI module was standard common interface for >> accessing databases, and that OCamlDBI would provide accesses to some >> supported databases, while other people might provide other >> implementations for other databases using the DBI module in ExtLib. >> Having then the DBI module separate from OCamlDBI makes sense. However >> currently all supported databases are in OCamlDBI.... in the end I think >> it's up to Richard to decide what he wants for DBI / OcamlDBI. > > This suggests removing Dbi from ocamldbi. However at the moment > things are too prone to change to do that. Perhaps after 1.0.0 is > released? > > Another data point in this discussion is that ocamldbi is pure OCaml, > believe it or not. It relies on external C bindings provided by other > libraries. So for example, the path to PostgreSQL is: > > Dbi_postgres -> Alaine Frische's Postgres -> libpq > > (This also explains why there are two PostgreSQL bindings, one of > which is apparently not working, because Alaine's Postgres module was > recently forked). > > Rich. This is why I don't understand why ocamldbi isn't entirely included in extlib. It's pure ocaml code, and it seems to install only the drivers that exist in the OS at compile time. -- Jesse Guardiani, Systems Administrator WingNET Internet Services, P.O. Box 2605 // Cleveland, TN 37320-2605 423-559-LINK (v) 423-559-5145 (f) http://www.wingnet.net |
From: Jere S. <xm...@xm...> - 2004-08-04 16:00:22
|
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 11:38:50AM -0400, Jesse Guardiani wrote: >> Another data point in this discussion is that ocamldbi is pure OCaml, >> believe it or not. It relies on external C bindings provided by other >> libraries. So for example, the path to PostgreSQL is: >> Dbi_postgres -> Alaine Frische's Postgres -> libpq >This is why I don't understand why ocamldbi isn't entirely included in >extlib. It's pure ocaml code, and it seems to install only the drivers >that exist in the OS at compile time. Well will it be pure ocaml for the whole duration of the project? Also is the driver selection in some makefile or configure script? I currently enjoy using extlib because of it's simplicity. I have made a custom ocalibsmake makefile, which makes plugging extlib to my own projects a breeze (add one dependency line and that's it). If extlib were to introduce conditional modules, I would have to find a workaround. Also if there are conditional modules, why stop at DBI drivers? There are a few things that can be done with 3.08 (but not 3.07), things such as directly inlining some array accesses and 32bit floating points -> ints. -- Jere Sanisalo [xm...@xm...] - http://www.xmunkki.org/ |
From: Jesse G. <je...@wi...> - 2004-08-04 16:49:26
|
Jere Sanisalo wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 11:38:50AM -0400, Jesse Guardiani wrote: >>> Another data point in this discussion is that ocamldbi is pure OCaml, >>> believe it or not. It relies on external C bindings provided by other >>> libraries. So for example, the path to PostgreSQL is: >>> Dbi_postgres -> Alaine Frische's Postgres -> libpq >>This is why I don't understand why ocamldbi isn't entirely included in >>extlib. It's pure ocaml code, and it seems to install only the drivers >>that exist in the OS at compile time. > > Well will it be pure ocaml for the whole duration of the project? Also is > the driver selection in some makefile or configure script? I currently > enjoy using extlib because of it's simplicity. I have made a custom > ocalibsmake makefile, which makes plugging extlib to my own projects a > breeze (add one dependency line and that's it). > > If extlib were to introduce conditional modules, I would have to find a > workaround. Also if there are conditional modules, why stop at DBI > drivers? There are a few things that can be done with 3.08 (but not 3.07), > things such as directly inlining some array accesses and 32bit floating > points -> ints. DBI, by definition, relies on conditional components. The current build process (as I understand it) only builds those modules that are supported by the OS at that time. In my case, this is mysql, so dbi_mysql is built. If you add postgres to your system later, then you have to rebuild ocamldbi. I guess this supports the current layout, because DBI itself is constant (or should be), while the individual database interfaces (like dbi_mysql) can come and go (from the OS, and the internet). I guess, this also suggests that DBI should be in extlib, but the database interface modules should be included in separate packages. Mr. Jones argues that DBI isn't stable enough for this yet. And if that's the case, then perhaps DBI should be removed from extlib until it IS stable. Otherwise, what's the harm in syncronizing the release of database interface modules with extlib releases? (i.e. dbi_mysql for extlib 1.4) We'll have to do this eventually anyway if DBI is to stay in extlib. Open Source software rarely stays completely constant if people are actively using it, and I see DBI as being a popular and necessary compliment to OCaml for real development. Development can then be carried on in CVS, and any new extlib releases will warrant individual dbi interface module releases... -- Jesse Guardiani, Systems Administrator WingNET Internet Services, P.O. Box 2605 // Cleveland, TN 37320-2605 423-559-LINK (v) 423-559-5145 (f) http://www.wingnet.net |
From: Richard J. <ri...@an...> - 2004-08-04 17:40:03
|
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 12:49:19PM -0400, Jesse Guardiani wrote: > Mr. Jones argues that DBI isn't stable enough for this yet. And if that's > the case, then perhaps DBI should be removed from extlib until it IS stable. It should become stable after the 1.0 release. The current release, which is 0.9.9, is essentially a release candidate for 1.0. Rich. -- Richard Jones. http://www.annexia.org/ http://www.j-london.com/ Merjis Ltd. http://www.merjis.com/ - improving website return on investment Learning Objective CAML for C, C++, Perl and Java programmers: http://www.merjis.com/richj/computers/ocaml/tutorial/ |
From: Richard J. <ri...@an...> - 2004-08-04 17:38:50
|
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 06:59:58PM +0300, Jere Sanisalo wrote: > Well will it be pure ocaml for the whole duration of the project? At the moment it's pure OCaml. It's hard to say whether it would stay like this forever. If it was entirely part of ExtLib, then there would of course be no choice in the matter. I would say that at the moment it makes sense to devolve the C bindings into separate modules which provide full access to the database (eg. Postgresql), and have the Dbi drivers (eg. Dbi_postgresql) give the limited "Dbi-compatible" access. > Also is the driver selection in some makefile or configure script? It has to be done at build time, because you cannot build a driver for which there is no underlying set of C bindings. It's a limitation of OCaml, and many other languages besides. > I currently enjoy > using extlib because of it's simplicity. I have made a custom ocalibsmake > makefile, which makes plugging extlib to my own projects a breeze (add one > dependency line and that's it). > > If extlib were to introduce conditional modules, I would have to find a > workaround. Also if there are conditional modules, why stop at DBI drivers? > There are a few things that can be done with 3.08 (but not 3.07), things > such as directly inlining some array accesses and 32bit floating points -> > ints. Points taken. Rich. -- Richard Jones. http://www.annexia.org/ http://www.j-london.com/ Merjis Ltd. http://www.merjis.com/ - improving website return on investment http://www.YouUnlimited.co.uk/ - management courses |
From: Stefano Z. <za...@bo...> - 2004-08-04 18:57:55
|
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:52:48PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: > Dbi module is now up to date on CVS. Stefano Zacchiroli is Debian > package maintainer of ExtLib, please contact him directly if you're in > a hurry. Could someone please summarize the status of the Dbi module? Extlib 1.2 has already been packaged on debian unstable and will enter testing. If the Dbi issue is now solved with the latest ocamldbi (already packaged) I can apply the diff from extlib's CVS to the 1.2 version of the extlib package. Just let me know if it's needed or not ... TIA, Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy zack@{cs.unibo.it,debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/ If there's any real truth it's that the entire multidimensional infinity of the Universe is almost certainly being run by a bunch of maniacs. -!- |
From: Richard J. <ri...@an...> - 2004-08-04 20:04:31
|
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 08:55:30PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:52:48PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: > > Dbi module is now up to date on CVS. Stefano Zacchiroli is Debian > > package maintainer of ExtLib, please contact him directly if you're in > > a hurry. > > Could someone please summarize the status of the Dbi module? Extlib 1.2 > has already been packaged on debian unstable and will enter testing. > > If the Dbi issue is now solved with the latest ocamldbi (already > packaged) I can apply the diff from extlib's CVS to the 1.2 version of > the extlib package. Just let me know if it's needed or not ... I'll stick my neck out here, and say that I think it's probably simplest[1] if you could do either of: (a) use extlib from CVS (which includes a dbi.{ml,mli} identical to ocamldbi 0.9.8), or (b) patch your current extlib package so that it removes the dbi.ml and dbi.mli files (and any associated Makefile changes) Thanks and sorry to mess things around so late, Rich. [1] for us, not necessary for you! -- Richard Jones. http://www.annexia.org/ http://www.j-london.com/ Merjis Ltd. http://www.merjis.com/ - improving website return on investment PTHRLIB is a library for writing small, efficient and fast servers in C. HTTP, CGI, DBI, lightweight threads: http://www.annexia.org/freeware/pthrlib/ |
From: John G. <jgo...@co...> - 2004-08-04 20:06:01
|
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 08:55:30PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 02:52:48PM +0200, Nicolas Cannasse wrote: > > Dbi module is now up to date on CVS. Stefano Zacchiroli is Debian > > package maintainer of ExtLib, please contact him directly if you're in > > a hurry. > > Could someone please summarize the status of the Dbi module? Extlib 1.2 > has already been packaged on debian unstable and will enter testing. I guess I am confused why this is a Debian-specific issue. I think the problem would plague anyone that wants to use recent DBI and recent Extlib together in the same program. I am one such person. The packages will install OK, but you just can't do the above. -- John > > If the Dbi issue is now solved with the latest ocamldbi (already > packaged) I can apply the diff from extlib's CVS to the 1.2 version of > the extlib package. Just let me know if it's needed or not ... > > TIA, > Cheers. > > -- > Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy > zack@{cs.unibo.it,debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/ > If there's any real truth it's that the entire multidimensional infinity > of the Universe is almost certainly being run by a bunch of maniacs. -!- > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by OSTG. Have you noticed the changes on > Linux.com, ITManagersJournal and NewsForge in the past few weeks? Now, > one more big change to announce. We are now OSTG- Open Source Technology > Group. Come see the changes on the new OSTG site. www.ostg.com > _______________________________________________ > ocaml-lib-devel mailing list > oca...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ocaml-lib-devel |