Thread: [OJB-developers] Re: Visual Tool?
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From: Thomas M. <tho...@ho...> - 2002-02-26 17:41:19
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Hi Alan, Thanks for your interest! Alan Mellor wrote: > Hi, > > Great project in OJB. I have a question that I could not find answered > in the FAQ ( ... during the time I spent, perhaps ... ) > There is a roadmap document (http://objectbridge.sf.net/roadmap.html) laying out the current status and our future plans. > Is the XML O/R mapping metadata entered by hand, or via a visual tool? currently it must be edited manually. But we definitely want to have such a tool. I would like to something like the TOPLink mapping workbench, which provides quite a lot of well structured engineering features. > > If there is no visual tool, would it be appreciated if I contributed > one, written using Swing and JDK 1.4.0? > Sure! OJB relies much on such contributions. We are not sponsored by a company or any other organisation. So everything (even rough code sketches, design ideas, contructive criticizm if definitely appreciated! Apart from providing mapping functionality (which allow to map existing java classes on existing RDBMS tables) we want to have forward- and reverse engineering features in this workbench : - from a Java Class model to an xml-repository and to RDBMS tables - from tables to classes and to an xml-repository. - from a xml-repository to classes and tables. There have been several discussions on this topic in the forums. There is also an outdated entry in the SourceForge TaskManager sketching my overall idea. There is also a contrib package on the download page (contrib-0.7.343.tgz). This archive contains some experimental code regarding DDL generation. There is also another SourceForge project (DBGen) that provides generation of java classes from RDBMS tables. The code generated won't match for OJB but maybe it's a good point to start from. thanks for your offer to help again, cheers, Thomas > Cheers, > Alan Mellor. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > |
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From: <ll...@li...> - 2002-02-26 22:41:46
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This might be a controversial suggestion. But it is an idea I got and I would like to get some feedback on it. Wouldn't it be possible to just drop the XML mapping files. The way I see it XML files contain data. And data should be persisted in a database. The way it is now the XML files are marshaled to OJB mapping objects which OJB then uses to figure out how to map the objects to tables. If we didn't have the mapping files it would be a easier to write the mapping-tool since it wouldn't require you to invent a tool to marshal and unmarshal mapping objects to xml files. Of course for this to be possible, there would have to be some kind of "bootstrapping" mapping objects that map the mapping objects to database tables. That could be handled with a simple factory pattern that returns hardcoded prebuild mapping objects. One might argue that the current XML files are pretty simple to edit in a text-editor. But I cannot see that it is significantly easier to edit XML files than SQL scripts. And in the end the goal must be to build a visual (or better fully automatic) mapping tool. I hope my suggestion is clear enough. Would this be a possible way to go ? /Lasse |
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From: Christian S. <chr...@ne...> - 2002-02-27 00:01:44
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the mapping repository storage architecture should be abstracted such tha= t providing specific mechanisms (XML, SQL, whatever) is a matter of implementing a simple interface, IMO. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lasse Lindg=E5rd" <ll...@li...> To: "'ojb'" <obj...@li...> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:42 PM Subject: [OJB-developers] Kill the mapping files > This might be a controversial suggestion. But it is an idea I got and I > would like to get some feedback on it. > > Wouldn't it be possible to just drop the XML mapping files. > > The way I see it XML files contain data. And data should be persisted i= n > a database. The way it is now the XML files are marshaled to OJB mappin= g > objects which OJB then uses to figure out how to map the objects to > tables. > > If we didn't have the mapping files it would be a easier to write the > mapping-tool since it wouldn't require you to invent a tool to marshal > and unmarshal mapping objects to xml files. > > Of course for this to be possible, there would have to be some kind of > "bootstrapping" mapping objects that map the mapping objects to databas= e > tables. That could be handled with a simple factory pattern that return= s > hardcoded prebuild mapping objects. > > One might argue that the current XML files are pretty simple to edit in > a text-editor. But I cannot see that it is significantly easier to edit > XML files than SQL scripts. And in the end the goal must be to build a > visual (or better fully automatic) mapping tool. > > I hope my suggestion is clear enough. > Would this be a possible way to go ? > > /Lasse > > > _______________________________________________ > Objectbridge-developers mailing list > Obj...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/objectbridge-developers |
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From: <ll...@li...> - 2002-02-27 06:06:57
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That is what Castor does. And that is pretty bloated in my humble opinion.=20 I thought that OJB was a pure Object-Relational framework ? /Lasse -----Original Message----- From: obj...@li... [mailto:obj...@li...] On Behalf Of Christian Sell Sent: 27. februar 2002 00:43 To: 'ojb' Subject: Re: [OJB-developers] Kill the mapping files the mapping repository storage architecture should be abstracted such that providing specific mechanisms (XML, SQL, whatever) is a matter of implementing a simple interface, IMO. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lasse Lindg=E5rd" <ll...@li...> To: "'ojb'" <obj...@li...> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:42 PM Subject: [OJB-developers] Kill the mapping files > This might be a controversial suggestion. But it is an idea I got and I > would like to get some feedback on it. > > Wouldn't it be possible to just drop the XML mapping files. > > The way I see it XML files contain data. And data should be persisted in > a database. The way it is now the XML files are marshaled to OJB mapping > objects which OJB then uses to figure out how to map the objects to > tables. > > If we didn't have the mapping files it would be a easier to write the > mapping-tool since it wouldn't require you to invent a tool to marshal > and unmarshal mapping objects to xml files. > > Of course for this to be possible, there would have to be some kind of > "bootstrapping" mapping objects that map the mapping objects to database > tables. That could be handled with a simple factory pattern that returns > hardcoded prebuild mapping objects. > > One might argue that the current XML files are pretty simple to edit in > a text-editor. But I cannot see that it is significantly easier to edit > XML files than SQL scripts. And in the end the goal must be to build a > visual (or better fully automatic) mapping tool. > > I hope my suggestion is clear enough. > Would this be a possible way to go ? > > /Lasse > > > _______________________________________________ > Objectbridge-developers mailing list > Obj...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/objectbridge-developers _______________________________________________ Objectbridge-developers mailing list Obj...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/objectbridge-developers |
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From: Thomas M. <tho...@ho...> - 2002-02-27 13:24:21
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Hi Lasse,
When I got Christian right he is only talking about storing metadata=20
("mapping repository storage") not about persisting ordinary business dat=
a.
Lasse Lindg=E5rd wrote:
> That is what Castor does. And that is pretty bloated in my humble
> opinion.=20
>=20
Castor does provide XML and LDAP persistence for ordinary business data=20
too. I guess that's the reason why it's bloated.
> I thought that OJB was a pure Object-Relational framework ?
>=20
Definitely!
But there are already people working on PersistenceBroker=20
implementations that provide persistence against file formats (xml, csv,=20
etc.).
cu,
Thomas
> /Lasse
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obj...@li...
> [mailto:obj...@li...] On Behalf
> Of Christian Sell
> Sent: 27. februar 2002 00:43
> To: 'ojb'
> Subject: Re: [OJB-developers] Kill the mapping files
>=20
>=20
> the mapping repository storage architecture should be abstracted such
> that
> providing specific mechanisms (XML, SQL, whatever) is a matter of
> implementing a simple interface, IMO.
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From: Thomas M. <tho...@ho...> - 2002-02-27 13:25:52
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Hi Christian, Christian Sell wrote: > the mapping repository storage architecture should be abstracted such that > providing specific mechanisms (XML, SQL, whatever) is a matter of > implementing a simple interface, IMO. > Exactly! A Mapping tool should not see any of these storage details! Thomas |
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From: <ll...@li...> - 2002-02-27 22:46:42
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So given that the only way to store things in OJB is a database now. Shouldn't OJB store the metadata in the database then. In the future when a PersistenceBrooker for e.g. XML becomes available. OJB could persist the metadata as XML. I just think it is a bad idea to invent a parallel persistence framework for the metadata. /Lasse -----Original Message----- From: obj...@li... [mailto:obj...@li...] On Behalf Of Thomas Mahler Sent: 27. februar 2002 14:00 To: Christian Sell Cc: 'ojb' Subject: Re: [OJB-developers] Kill the mapping files Hi Christian, Christian Sell wrote: > the mapping repository storage architecture should be abstracted such that > providing specific mechanisms (XML, SQL, whatever) is a matter of > implementing a simple interface, IMO. > Exactly! A Mapping tool should not see any of these storage details! Thomas _______________________________________________ Objectbridge-developers mailing list Obj...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/objectbridge-developers |
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From: Florian B. <bf...@fl...> - 2002-02-26 19:56:47
Attachments:
Schemegenerator.zip
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Hi, > > > > If there is no visual tool, would it be appreciated if I contributed > > one, written using Swing and JDK 1.4.0? > > > > > Sure! OJB relies much on such contributions. We are not sponsored by a > company or any other organisation. > So everything (even rough code sketches, design ideas, > contructive criticizm if definitely appreciated! > Then I think I have something to share here. Some time ago I started writing a small tool that visualises a database structure. It never really left the state of a design study, its main purpose was for me to get some insight on the DatabaseMetadata interface. As I've seen this discussion I did some quick hacks and it is now able to generate the XML-Mapping and the related Java-classes (going the hard way with just doing some String concatenation). While this code is poorly designed and without any comments it still could maybe serve as a starting point for reverse engineering a database structure, as this was not as easy as it seemed first. As always with JDBC, every vendor implements the DatabaseMetadata interface differently. If you want to use it as a starting point or just as inspiration I could spend some time on commenting the code and I also would be more than happy to participate in such a project. best regards, Florian |
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From: Thomas M. <tho...@ho...> - 2002-03-03 14:52:07
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Hi Florian, I had a look at your tool. I like it very much. It's already quite powerful for reverse engineering JDBC datasources. It should be made a part of the OJB Mapping tool! Is it OK for you to add it to the contributions directory until we have started with the "official" tool? Do you want to maintain the package naming at.citec... ? I would prefer to use ojb.tools.mapping or something like that. cu, Thomas Florian Bruckner wrote: > Hi, > > >> > >> > If there is no visual tool, would it be appreciated if I contributed >> > one, written using Swing and JDK 1.4.0? >> > >> >> >>Sure! OJB relies much on such contributions. We are not sponsored by a >>company or any other organisation. >> So everything (even rough code sketches, design ideas, >>contructive criticizm if definitely appreciated! >> >> > > Then I think I have something to share here. Some time ago I started writing > a small tool that visualises a database structure. It never really left the > state of a design study, its main purpose was for me to get some insight on > the DatabaseMetadata interface. As I've seen this discussion I did some > quick hacks and it is now able to generate the XML-Mapping and the related > Java-classes (going the hard way with just doing some String concatenation). > > While this code is poorly designed and without any comments it still could > maybe serve as a starting point for reverse engineering a database > structure, as this was not as easy as it seemed first. As always with JDBC, > every vendor implements the DatabaseMetadata interface differently. > > If you want to use it as a starting point or just as inspiration I could > spend some time on commenting the code and I also would be more than happy > to participate in such a project. > > best regards, > Florian > |
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From: Thomas M. <tho...@ho...> - 2002-03-01 09:33:45
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Hi Ian, Ian Lim wrote: > Hi > > Forward engineering and backward engineering. > Sounds familiar... > Sure, this is not a new invention. > What do you all think about Torque's approach ? > I don't know anything about Torque. Maybe someone (Jason ?) may explain the Torque approach and what we can learn for the forward/reverse engineering topic (or in general) from it. thanks, Thomas > Just my 2 cents thought > ========== > Ian Lim > email: mal...@ya... > homepage: http://www.webappcabaret.com/mallim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Mahler" <tho...@ho...> > To: <aj...@me...> > Cc: "ojb" <obj...@li...> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 01:41 AM > Subject: [OJB-developers] Re: Visual Tool? > > > >>Hi Alan, >> >>Thanks for your interest! >> >>Alan Mellor wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > Great project in OJB. I have a question that I could not find answered >> > in the FAQ ( ... during the time I spent, perhaps ... ) >> > >> >> >>There is a roadmap document (http://objectbridge.sf.net/roadmap.html) >>laying out the current status and our future plans. >> >> >> > Is the XML O/R mapping metadata entered by hand, or via a visual tool? >> >> >>currently it must be edited manually. But we definitely want to have >>such a tool. >>I would like to something like the TOPLink mapping workbench, which >>provides quite a lot of well structured engineering features. >> >> >> > >> > If there is no visual tool, would it be appreciated if I contributed >> > one, written using Swing and JDK 1.4.0? >> > >> >> >>Sure! OJB relies much on such contributions. We are not sponsored by a >>company or any other organisation. >> So everything (even rough code sketches, design ideas, >>contructive criticizm if definitely appreciated! >> >>Apart from providing mapping functionality (which allow to map existing >>java classes on existing RDBMS tables) we want to have forward- and >>reverse engineering features in this workbench : >>- from a Java Class model to an xml-repository and to RDBMS tables >>- from tables to classes and to an xml-repository. >>- from a xml-repository to classes and tables. >> >>There have been several discussions on this topic in the forums. >>There is also an outdated entry in the SourceForge TaskManager sketching >>my overall idea. >> >>There is also a contrib package on the download page >>(contrib-0.7.343.tgz). This archive contains some experimental code >>regarding DDL generation. >> >>There is also another SourceForge project (DBGen) that provides >>generation of java classes from RDBMS tables. >>The code generated won't match for OJB but maybe it's a good point to >>start from. >> >>thanks for your offer to help again, >>cheers, >> >>Thomas >> >> >> > Cheers, >> > Alan Mellor. >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Objectbridge-developers mailing list >>Obj...@li... >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/objectbridge-developers >> > > > > |
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